How do we figure it out?

Good post.

 

I think if you can be honest with yourself (parent) you can take the following litmus test, and it should be fail proof. 

 

If you are looking for a travel team, showcase, or college:  you can watch a practice or game, and ask yourself - "would son look like the square peg trying to fit into the round hole, or does he look like he fits?".  If you can be honest, the truth will be evident.  If you don't feel like you can look past the rose colored glasses, ask an experienced qualified independent person (not his paid coach) to do the same...that test is fail proof in my humble opinion.

IMO you have to get multiple opinions. HS coach, travel coach, scout ball coach, scouts, instructors, friends or friends of friends who have played at the next level. Any player who is serious about playing at the next level will develop these contacts over time. No one answer will be correct but it will help formulate an honest independent perspective. 

If your son is starting on a good travel team it should be somewhat apparent that different level of programs are scouting the talent on the team. If top teams are scouting your team and you are an important part of the team, that should translate into where your opportunities lay.

It should also be apparent by who is talking to your son. Is FSU calling you or the local JUCO getting to know your son.

For my son he was approached by programs of all levels. Several D-1's D-2's and JUCO's. Coaches would call me just to tell me how my son looked at a WWBA tourney that I did not attend. JUCO's approach you at Jupiter events. I think it sort of takes care of itself. The player knows where he can compete and where he can earn a starting role.

It becomes apparent when %'s start being tossed around.

I say these things and yet it did not go down how I thought it would. I wonder sometimes what would have changed if my son had accepted the D-1 offers as opposed to the very generous D-2 offers, then only to decide to play JUCO.

Interesting times, I would love to be able to live through them again!

Happy that my son is still playing!

He had a decent payday on Sunday helping Andrew McCutchen shoot a commercial for New Era Hats and gear, lol. He was amazed by the wardrobe they laid out for him for the shoot. Like 50 watches, 50 belts, racks of clothes etc. My son was tossing him the ball and rolling it to him to field. At one point he was on a ladder tossing it so Andrew could appear to rob a home run!

Still keeping the dream alive hoping for another chance in affiliated ball. I saw a 27 year old was just signed out of the American League this past week. So there is still hope!

   Great topic! A terrific coach for team USA 16U told me " The game will tell you where you can play......and for how long" I believe that is true but the statement doesn't provide a road map for how to figure out where you fit

   As the parent of a pitcher,I consider myself lucky.Pitchers are easier to evaluate and project for NCAA baseball compared to hitters.Pitching is all based on velo and size.

   If you have a pitcher, the quick way is to go to the perfect game website and crosscheck colleges against the stats of their committed pitchers. The numbers speak for themselves. A typical RHP Division 1 baseball pitcher starts at 88 mph + and stands 6'+ and at the High D-1's they exceed 90 mph and they are BIG kids. LHP mid level D-1 85 mph....High D-1 87-90 mph . Size on the left side not as important but it helps.

       Of course this depends on which school you check. It's important for people new to this to know that while NCAA baseball has three Divisions, each individual division sort of has a 'Low, mid, high' thing. UCLA baseball is clearly 'High D-1' ball while maybe Fordham University would be considered ' Low to mid D-1' That being said , UCLA recruits a different pitcher than say Fordham. Both schools are Division 1 programs but frankly have little in common as far as what type of player it attracts or recruits.

         A good rule of thumb with top high D-1 programs like North Carolina or UCLA is that most their recruiting class will also be considered for the MLB draft in June. Simply put: If your son is not draftable its not the right fit.

         The same holds true for Division 3 baseball. A program like California Lutheran or Emory will be looking at a much better player than Cazenovia or Colby-Sawyer.

          Mid level D-3 is going to start RHP 84 mph + , LHP 81 MPH + and size isn't as big of an issue in D-3 ball. High D-3 programs are good because they recruit top players the D-1 schools missed because of some prejudice to size or speed.

          It's not uncommon to see a high D-3 guy throw 88mph+ but maybe with a bad body.

          Lastly, one must factor in the 'academic schools' at the D-1 and primarily D-3 levels. This is a whole other thing. With academic restrictions these schools are attracted to ballplayers with top of their class grades and top standardized test scores. With that they may be a bit more forgiving with the size or in a pitchers case the velocity. But not by much. Especially the Ivys. What people used to consider as low D-1 ball , the Ivys are now competing for players at the mid-D-1 and even top D-1 schools. Ivy league baseball is no joke. Also, the Patriot league. And if you are looking for competitive higher academic small college baseball at the D-3 level. Check out the NCAA D-3 Northwest Conference.

         I really believe the key to recruiting or being recruited is for the player or the school to get 'The right fit' not just with baseball but everything else. Academics, socially, geographically. Most parents that I've met want their kids to play at schools that really are beyond their skill set. A college coach will only recruit players that can help them win. Period. Players and parents ( myself included) need to remember that. There are many, many programs in NCAA baseball for talented and passionate players with different skill sets.

         

         

 

Lots of great info above. If you are new to this, read each of the above posts again carefully. They contain the information you are seeking, but you have to be open and honest with yourself. To me, that is the hard (trick) part. Honest self-evaluations are always difficult, no matter what you are searching for.

 

I think one mistake parents make is to confuse talent with stats.  The kid with the best stats at the lower levels is often the kid who has reached maturity faster.

 

For me, the eye-test is what I used.  I trusted my own eyes.  Getting other people's opinions at the younger ages is a minefield.  Many have agendas and many promote their own kids while trying to diminish others.  Professional opinions can help but there is a financial incentive to provide good news.

 

Here is a good way to tell things.  Forget about stats.  Go to all the games and observe.  For whatever age level, you'll come to understand what the speed of the game is for that level.  Every once and awhile, you'll come across some kid who plays at an elevated speed.  For instance, watch what happens when the velocity goes up.  Some of the "stats" kids who are feasting on mediocre/average pitching will cower in fear or will look lost at the plate.  The competitive kids, with upside, will compete.  Maybe they didn't get a hit but they were killing the third base coach with hard line drives down the line.  How did they compete?  It is a good question to ask.  For pitchers, how did they do when a known good hitting team faced them?  Watch keenly what happens when the competition improves.  See who competes and who doesn't. 

 

For college level and beyond, go to a showcase or camp and see with your own eyes.  Does your son look lost at a D1 camp or showcase?  Does he look better than the competition at a D3 camp?  60 times and radar guns will decide some of these things.  They can't measure the size of someone's heart however.

 

Sports has always been an integral/important thing in my life.  Perhaps my judgment is better than someone who has no interest in sports.  In a case like that, you might have to find someone you can "trust" to help you figure it out.  

To the question in the original post...

 

How about actually going to watch D1, D2, D3, etc baseball games…. in person?

 

Amazes me how many parents, kids, their HS & even travel coaches go to so few college games.  How do you "want" something you've never seen?  How do you "know" a kid can play at a level you've never seen?

 

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com

 

That's exactly what my son and I are doing this spring -- going to a couple each D1 and D2. There is really no D3 baseball around here but we will see a few high-level JC games as well.

Can someone break down PG ratings? I'm guessing a 10 wouldn't be looking at colleges as much as the draft. So where does that leave a 9 or 8 or 7 for college fit? Generally speaking, I know! I know each coach looks for different things but what can a kid do marketing-wise with their rating? 

10"s would be looking at college just as much as the draft, IMO. If not, they should be. I would think that looking at colleges would be more dependent on school grades and test scores as opposed to PG grade.

My 2015 just went through this process.  It is a combination of many factors determined by the RC. It all boils down to the summer between you Junior and senior year.  Your level of play is determined by what division you are being recruited by with the most interest.  Far too often the parents and player are not realistic and get caught up in the size, name and division of the schools they pursue to only transfer the next year.  It was said in a prior post that the game will tell you where you can play!

I am a firm believer that you may start out playing the game where you want but you will ultimately end up playing where you should.

One must also be careful with PG Ratings as they are done at a point in time.  There are many players who went to their first (and only?) PG showcase at an early age, got a rating - 7.5, 8, 8.5 - then developed but never made it back to an PG Showcase (committed early and didn't feel the need, not quite elite enough to be invited to PG National (Jr.), etc.  My point is that one should not compare their 8.0 son to another 8.0 who then developed (threw over 90, etc.) and went to a big time program.

10's should be looking at college, AND will likely be in the draft, but where in the draft?

 

A good example would be the recent catcher for Kennesaw State University, Max Pentecost.  His PG grade was a 9.5, ranked 203 nationally by PG. He did get drafted in the 7th round by the Rangers in 2011...he declined.  He had some GREAT years at KSU and in 2014 he was drafted in the first round by the Blue Jays...with a nice 2.9 MILLION dollar signing bonus...plus he has 3 years of education banked.

Going to do the same as well.

 

 

 

I agree with this.  We just got back from the PG MLK tourney in AZ, lots of good teams and lots of really good ball players.  But you can tell by watching the small number of kids that stand head and shoulders above in tools and talent.  To me, the hard part follows the recognition that "ok, my kid is good but not quite like that".

Thanks for the responses. So, then, how often should a kid go to a PG Showcase as a Soph or Junior? When they've shown improvement in their weaker areas?

I guess that would depend on what position they are trying to be recruited for.  I know of a 2016 catcher who has gone to 1 showcase a year for the last 3 years because he is trying to get his home page to reflect the best stats possible.  When you type in anyone's name their picture comes up and all their stats, but the date of those stats also come up, they take your best one in each category for your home page. 

 

This 2016 has his home page stats running from 2013-2015, and plays in multiple PG tourneys to track that he has been stable in between showcases.  In 2012 his PG grade was a 7.5 and by 2013 he was a 9.5. He has tried to focus on one area for every showcase, this last time (mid junior year) it was his 60 time, which he improved by 0.3 seconds. Previously it was his lowest pop he focused on, which also dropped significantly.

 

  He treats it like a jigsaw puzzle...secure this piece then that piece so the whole picture looks appealing.  Don't get me wrong he can't show a pop time of 1.88 and the next time it records at a 2.1, but he keeps them all fairly consistent while having a goal of one specific thing he wants to improve on each showcase.

There are many ways for a player to get a chance to show their skills to college coaches.  Although showcases are a good way to get exposure, why not identify 4-5 schools that your son wants to attend academically and for baseball.  Once identified, attend their camp and take a visit of the campus.  At their camp the whole coaching staff, from HC on down, will evaluate the skills with their eye, stopwatch, and radar gun to see if there is a fit their program. I know of players who have signed or are playing for major SEC programs whom have never stepped on a showcase field. When you see them at tournaments it is apparent that they can just flat out play.

Ratings do have a place in the evaluation process for some but most coaches want to see the player with their eye.  I am sure if you look at player PG rating, there are many 8 to 8.5 that have secured spots to major D1 programs and also conversely there are some 10 still looking for an opportunity.