How Fast is Fast Enough

I tend to agree, but you certainly have to give different floors for D-1/D-2, and various levels of D-3. Then you have elite sunbelt Jucos (90 mph) as opposed to all the rest (75-85 mph).

Can someone quote some typical D-3 speeds? The only D-3 pitcher I know well, a big freshman, topped out around 77 at his tiny Iowa college. He got little game time.

A lot depends on the make up of the pitcher and what a coach sees in the future for him---PROJECTIBILITY

There are plenty of arms in collge that are in the 77 to 82 range--and they have other "stuff" to go with it as in THEY WIN !!!!

The DIII near us had a pitcher who threw in the mid 90s. They also had pitchers throwing in the high 70s. 80+ may be a good rule of thumb but it isn't an absolute. If a player has been successful in HS throwing less than 80 mph what have they got to lose trying to catch on with a DIII or JC team?

I'm a big believer in trying to develop velocity along with location and movement but as far as the college ranks go it is the whole package they are looking for.

I tend to think of projectability in terms of velocity and in just those terms college coaches are a bit less likely to worry about it than pro scouts. College coaches need players who can help them win within a few years and there's less room for projection. Along with that is more of an emphasis on winning. The pros don't really care if a pitcher never wins in the minors as long as they develop into a winning pitcher in the big leagues. (Yes, I realize that winners in the minors are more likely to win in the bigs, i.e. Zach Duke.)

If you are less than 80 and had or are having great numbers in your high school, you still have a great chance. I just want to let all high school pitchers know that are in the low 80's range to stop worrying about their (lack of) velocity. If you are winning and posting great stat.s, coaches will be interested in you.

I have to do it - -

We have thread after thread that talks about how hs stats are totally irrelevant. Now we say if you throw in the low 80s but put up great hs stats you don't have to worry. We are bound to confuse a few folks here.

Sorry, but the devil made me do it.

ps. I agree with what you are saying though,

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A lot depends on the make up of the pitcher and what a coach sees in the future for him---PROJECTIBILITY

I have not found projectability to be a great concern to a college coach. They seem to be more interested in "what can you do for me now" with projectability based on the assumption that you can help them now. I believe the pro game cares more about projectability. jmo

In my son's case, I had some coaches tell me that his breaking ball was not developed enough to "compete" at the college level. It didnt matter that he was above 90 consistently, threw strikes, had great results, and was not allowed to throw a breaking ball until after his junior year (in order to develop his fb and save his arm, which would make him projectable imo). They did not care too much about his projectability. They wanted a breaking ball and a guy who (they felt) could help them now. Not all, but many felt that way.

Aparent, lots of scouts and coaches say that they do not care about lists by PG and BA, but you always here them quote those lists reports verbatim.

Aparent is correct in my opinion. Stats meant very little to college coaches based on questions about them to my son or myself. They weren't that remarkable anyway, other than lots of K's and few walks, fairly typical for pitchers who move on.

They sure were interested in his schedule and where they could watch him play.

At the Coastal Carolina showcase last October, Coach Gilmore did a parents' seminar. He said for right handers the minimum for them to look at was 84, and closer to 87 they'd be more interested. For a lefty he said 82 was the minimum and anything 85 or over was "special". Looking at my notes, some other interesting stuff: They want corner OF to run in the 6.8 range, CF 6.5, MIF 6.6-6.8, corner IF 6.9-7.2 "if they can hit". He said he tried to break his scholarship allotment down like this: 7 for pitchers, 1.2 for catchers, 2 for IF, and 1.5 for OF.

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Looking at my notes, some other interesting stuff: They want corner OF to run in the 6.8 range, CF 6.5, MIF 6.6-6.8, corner IF 6.9-7.2 "if they can hit".

So does everyone else.

My question would be how many get most of that. 6.5 guys usually get offered some money if they can hit. It is a good wish list though. It is how I would try to build a team. Have 5 basestealers that can hit, three guys that are quick and have power, and some special lefties and power righties. Yup, that'll git 'er done!.

A little pitching and you are in Omaha.

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At the Coastal Carolina showcase last October, Coach Gilmore did a parents' seminar. He said for right handers the minimum for them to look at was 84, and closer to 87 they'd be more interested. For a lefty he said 82 was the minimum and anything 85 or over was "special". Looking at my notes, some other interesting stuff: They want corner OF to run in the 6.8 range, CF 6.5, MIF 6.6-6.8, corner IF 6.9-7.2 "if they can hit". He said he tried to break his scholarship allotment down like this: 7 for pitchers, 1.2 for catchers, 2 for IF, and 1.5 for OF.

Wow, great fact-filled post. But who is Coach Gilmore? Was he running the showcase or scouting for his team? What level are these figures valid for? (D-1 I presume.)

Gary Gilmore is the head coach at Coastal Carolina.

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Gary Gilmore is the head coach at Coastal Carolina.

I see, a D-1 school. Must admit that I've never heard of it. Sorry

Another thing to keep in mind is the part of the country that you are talking about when it comes to colleges

Different things happen in different parts of the country

I don't know Coach Gilmore, but Coastal Carolina is a great program. I am wondering, though, if you heard those numbers right. No major league team I know of has that kind of speed throughout the lineup. Many MLB CF don't quite run a 6.5 (though many are even faster than 6.5). I had always heard for top D1 they preferred 6.8 or below for cf or mif, 7-7.5 for corners. I personally know 2 major D1 CFs who have never broken 7.0, and some corners who have trouble breaking 7.5. On the MLB scouting scale, a 6.8 is above average. By the numbers you used, just about every player on a college team would have above average MLB speed. That's highly unlikely.

The other question, of course, is the usefulness of the typical baseball 60 yard dash times. Not only can stopwatch (as opposed to laser timer) times be inaccurate, but I have seen many different types of starts used even in the same tryout. I would like to see, in addition to the 60, home to first and home to second times (as are often taken by MLB scouts), since some players are better than others at getting out of the box and turning between bases, which is what counts in baserunning. While the 60 yd. dash makes sense as a tool to evaluate defensive range, you also need to know how good a jump a kid gets, and whether he runs efficient routes to the ball. I am skeptical about our ability to convert raw speed into baserunning speed and defensive range, with an experienced player, if nobody has been able to do it by the time he has graduated from high school.

But, if all other things (most importantly the bat) are equal, I'd take the kid with the greater speed every time.

RipEm

I agree that raw speed does not necessarily convert into a good baserunning speed and ability

Good baserunners are good baserunners not because of their speed but because they can "read" the situation or the pitcher. Some of the best basestealers in baseball history did not break 7 seconds in the 60---they were quick and smart on the bases==Bernie Williams on the Yankees is a prime example of poor base runner with great speed

Great post TR. Different programs put different amounts of emphasis on speed power etc. And speed is important but it does not determine if a kid is a good baserunner or not. If you have a kid with great speed and he is a great baserunner then you have something special. Alot of times the best baserunners have avg speed. They have focused on the things that make you a good baserunner because they dont have great speed to draw upon. JMO

Boy, I am not sure I would admit to not knowing about Coastal Carolina's Baseball program. It has probably grown quicker to stardom in the shortest possible time of any baseball program......any! It started in 1994! Now it is a national powerhouse (top 50). One of their players went 1st round this year. Checkout last months Baseball America.

RipEm, I just want to back up Lefty’s Dad. He “heard those number right”. I was in there as well. They had a young man from PA who had a brother playing for Bucknell that ran a 6.5 who was the real deal and several that ran sub 7.0. This camp was loaded with talent. Gilmore spent several hours with 100+ parents.

RipEm, TRhit, and Coach May well put, agree 100% (as usual). Just backin’ up Lefty’s Dad’s post and numbers

GO CHANTS.