How hard to push vs.baseball burnout

As the parent of an 8th grader as well, I am torn as well on how hard to push. He's as dedicated of a player as it comes when it's time for practice or a game but in between he hasn't seen the value of a daily workout.

Hoping one of the wise on this site can share something on this topic.

I think that it begins with a love and a desire to pursue dreams. I have a son that all he wanted to do was play baseball...all the time. He loved to train and push himself. I created opportunities that would allow him to push himself.

Another son that realized he was not going to play at the highest of levels, and said "what is the point, if I can not play or aspire to play professionally, I will focus on other areas". I could not push him, he had opportunites, but if it did not lead to pro ball, he decided it was not worth it.

"Some people are just born to play baseball" Babe Ruth

I totally agree, when it is time to turn it on for practices or games he brings it 110%. But the working out and conditioning unless pushed or made to...it's a battle.

I'm definitely not one of the wise on this site. IMO you just give them a little nudge every once in a while in the right direction. You can't do anything about the desire. It's either there or it's not. It can develop from nowhere or it may never show up. You just have to be willing to let them make the bed that they are going to lay in. There's really no use them being something just because you willed it to be.....is there?

Absolutely not, and thx for your response. We often ask ourselves if we want far more for him than he wants for himself. I remember hearing at one point that teenagers lack the ability to "see around corners" should I keep nudging him until he can project his future better?

quote:

I remember hearing at one point that teenagers lack the ability to "see around corners" should I keep nudging him until he can project his future better?

Be consistent. Be positive. Nudge them away from trouble. Let them take the wheel and drive in the ditch every once in a while. Pull them out. His future. His destiny. When it's all said and done, it's just like The Beatles wrote, "And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love, you make." It sounds corny but it's true. Hey, that's just one man's opinion.

If your son enjoys the game and is good at it, why would you push him to do something he and you probably have no clue how to do properly at his age?

Frequent tendinitous is not commom for his age.

Something isn't working.

Just a suggestion, don't beat yourself up because you feel he needs to do something he doesn't want to do, seek help in what is age appropriate and you might get better results.

Thx, I appreciate the advice.

I am certainly not an expert at this as I am going through this with my 2015. There are a lot of differing opinions on "pushing" your kid. Many on here have suggested that they will do it on their own if they love it enough. Personally, I think 14-18 year olds need a gentle prod at times. Obviously they have to love the game to continue on in it, but IMO, how many teens know what they want. Unfortunately, if you wait too long the opportunity may pass you by, and that is something they can't see or appreciate.
The one thing I would suggest to your son if he is a pitcher. I would STRONGLY suggest that you make him understand if he is going to pitch, he is going to train and condition his arm in the off season. I have personal experience here. I used to stay on my son to ice and run after throwing as well as to prepare correctly prior to pitching. He would do it about 1/2 the time and acted as if I didn't know what I was talking about. Well to make a long story short, this summer he heard a "pop" in his elbow at a Team USA tryout. An MRI was done and revealed a partial tear in his UCL. We were told he would need Tommy John surgery. We were advised to get a second opinion from Dr. James Anderws. Dr. Andrews did not recommed surgery at the time and had my son on a very regimented rehab program. After 6 weeks, we returned and Dr. Andrews had him proceed with a throwing program for post-TJ patients. We are currently at the end of Phase I of the throwing progam.
My point to all of this is that this scared the **** out of my son. Now he is religious about his pre-throwing program. I don't ever think I will have to "push" my son in this particular phase of baseball. He works out 6 days per week in addition to the throwing program. But what a potential price he almost had to pay to "learn a lesson". I don't want anyone else to go through this. I understand injuries can happen. But at least I could live with an injury if he were prepared.
My advise to you would be to tell your son if he wants to pitch, then his obligations is the proper preparation and recovery.

Maybe the tendonitis is from not preparing properly???


My son isnt a pitcher but a position player.

My son isnt normal.Honestly he never had to be pushed for baseball.

Now school that was the carrot we dangled.He was a good student but didnt like it and yet graduated from college in four years(because of baseball)


Your son is young,at some point he will have to decide if he wants to put the work in.Honestly it becomes part of the day.They get up,go to school, work out etc etc etc.It is just part of a baseball players life.

At least that has been our experience.

I dont think a parent can push a player into working harder.

mom323,
I have some thoughts but first a few questions...

What has he communicated with you regarding his baseball aspirations? How specific is he? What other interests does he have? How does he respond to your “nudging”? Does he show similar traits (lazy teenitis) with other aspects of his life?

Cabbagedad: He does the same thing with school. He is a national honor student. He does what he has to, funny thing is it comes natural. Nothing above and beyond.When asked what he wants out of baseball he says he wants to be a proffessional player. We put a bat in his hands at three, he get's by on his bat alot.,He carries his wood bat around the house with him. I think he enjoys pitching and the newness of it. Definately the attention he is recieving from it.,Bottom line is, if he is required to work he works hard. He just lacks any initiative to do anything on his own. Thx for your time.

Other interests include: airsoft guns, dodgeball, video games and girls

8th graders should not be working out and conditioning IMO. They should be playing multiple sports, hanging out with friends, and having a good time. Getting lots of attention in 8th grade from whom?

I never pushed my son to workout - ever, he started pushing himself after he got in HS and this was more oriented toward getting baseball work in. (bullpens, batting practice, etc) Weight lifting and conditioning were all driven by their HS coaches once he got there. . Relax there will be plenty of time for this once he is in HS.

Tendinitis is usually a symptom of not warming up properly or over use. Not a good sign and the only way to “cure it” is to shut down. As TPM pointed out this is an area of concern.

quote:

Originally posted by Baseballmom323:
...Bottom line is, if he is required to work he works hard. He just lacks any initiative to do anything on his own.

I am reluctant to post something that is largely just parenting advice but I'm going to throw this out anyway...
First, the primary concern for an 8th grader playing baseball should be that he is having fun playing the game. That said, if he has expressed lofty aspirations, he will soon need to begin learning what is involved in realizing his goals.

Your son is certainly no exception when it comes to teen work ethic. That said, there are also kids like Floridafan's and Fanofgame's who are driven and have focused purpose at a young age.

If we get too caught up in the academic or athletic talent and potential, we can lose sight of the fact that it is equally important to focus on teaching the work ethic and "good citizen/good teammate/good working partner" lessons so that they can put those talents to good use.

There are always bigger ponds. At some point in baseball as well as in academics and in the work environment, he will be pushed by others just as talented.
Will he have the tools to respond?
Find ways to help your son develop good work ethic. Help him understand that, no matter how talented, if he isn't willing to consistently work hard at something, others will start to pass him by. Others like Floridafan's smaller son, because he will keep working every day until he is better than your son.
(Again, this is not to say that he shouldn't be allowed to just enjoy playing baseball as an 8th grader. For example, regular workout routines for sports typically don't start until HS years.)

Based on some of your comments in your first post, I'm guessing that your "nudging" may be more of a steady push to the point where he gets annoyed with you and, thus, you fear you will drive him away from the sport (burnout).

If so, I suggest you use other methods. Provide information to him in a manner that he finds interesting. Expose him to successful young athletes who will be eager to share how much work they had to put in to reach their goals. Do the same with any types of businesses he may have interest in currently. Find background stories on his favorite players (if they send the right message, of course). Point out the local HS star that is ALWAYS at the cages or on the field taking grounders. Be consistent in holding him responsible for his chores around the house. Expect that things be done completely and to the best of his ability. Don't make exceptions, especially because of baseball. When the time comes to choose a hitting or pitching instructor or a speed/development coach, choose wisely with the idea that the work ethic message is very important. The right mentor can provide excellent motivation and/or reinforcement. Don't try to do this all at once and don't fret that he doesn't get it all at once. It's a process. My kids are all in college and are still at various stages of that process.

Balance this all out by making sure you have good dialog with your son with other aspects of his life. Encourage other sports and activities. Some things should be "just for fun". For yourself, put serious consideration into the fact that, at some point, baseball will suddenly end. At that point, what other things will you have as common discussion points with your son? What other things will you be proud of? What other things will he be proud of?

Most teens do need guidance, support, information, discipline, love and, yes, nudging. But I think we need to be careful that we don’t become too enthralled in any one aspect of their lives. We need to parent consistently, always looking at the big picture.

BTW, some other great advice given here, including TPM's comments about the tendonitis. Get that figured out.

Best wishes and keep us informed.

Nice post Cabbagedad.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
Nice post Cabbagedad.

Fan, you're up awful early today....

I too agree with CabbageDad and TPM, suggestions/guidance is the most we should do. He should get that arm looked at too. I also thought son wasn't being serious enough in HS, one year at JC got him going. However by that time his bat wasn't keeping up and as a position player that affected his attraction by 4 year programs and MLB.

I agree, you should have the arm looked at to ensure he is 100% healthy.

I think I would take a different tack than what others have offered. Inspiration comes in different forms with my three kids. Sitting down with them to talk about their future and how to get to their goals always worked for me..and then showing them what that future looks like. They figure out quickly if you want to do A then you need to do B, C, D.

We had the luxury of having some very talented high school and college players in our area when my kids were younger. My kids got to talk and listen to those guys about what it took to play at the next level. They saw how much work went into it including off season workouts. Very quickly their brain understands that being good isn;t enough that you have to be good and work hard to have a chance at the next level whatever that level is.

So, I would network in your area to find an accomplished high school, college or minor league baseball player to talk to your son about baseball and the work habits required off the field. Possibly that talk will help trigger action. These guy will have much more credibility than Mom or Dad.

Good luck.

I know from experience "years of it" that kids are simply different. Some are born with a drive to excel at this game. They love it. And when I say they love it I don't mean they love to play the game. They love everything about the game. They love the grind. They love to practice. They love to work at the things that will make them better. If you told them that running stadium stairs at 5am with bricks in their hands till they almost passed out would take them to another level they would be waiting on you at 5am every day. They are never satisfied with where they are. If they hit .350 they want to hit .400 the next year. They want more ground balls after practice. They want more fly balls. They want more BP. They want more more more. They love the smell of the glove, grass and the game is much more than just a game to them.

It takes this kind of love to get through the tough times. The times when the return on the investment just isn't adding up to the investment. And this can and will be the case the longer they play the game. They want to be the best. They want to play against the best. They want to be challenged.

Some kids are not born with this. It has to be nurtured. To be honest with you this is what I have always been the best at. I know the game pretty well. But there are many that have forgotten more than I will ever know. Here is the most important thing IMO. Create an environment that nurtures a young man's desire to be the best he can be. Build a fire inside of them. Praise them and create a dream in their mind of where they can be. Where they can go. Who they can be in this game. And most importantly what its going to take to get there.

"If you do what everyone else is doing you are working on being average. If your goal is to be like everyone else then you may just do that. You may just reach your goal of being average."

"If your goal is to be the very best. To be the very best you can possibly be. Then be willing to do what no one else is willing to do. Learn to push YOURSELF. You be the measuring stick for everyone else. If they run 15 bleachers you run 20. If they are hitting 3 days a week you hit 6 days a week."

Some kids are born with it. They take to it like water. They love it. They want you to push them. They want to push themselves. Some kids are not. But something special can happen. They see some results. They get some encouragement. They start to feel good about themselves. They start to push more. And then more. And then more. And then it takes hold and they are a monster. And this is not something you can turn off and turn on. They learn that this same work ethic and desire that is allowing them to excel on the field will allow them to excel in the class room, in their relationships, in their job, in their life.

My goal was to teach these young men what it takes to be special. Not just on the baseball field but in life. And the same things that will allow a young man to be his best on the baseball field will allow him to be the best he can be at the most important game of all. The game of life.

So teach them what its going to take to be special. Encourage them and praise them. Build a fire in their heart to be special. Teach them to PUSH themselves. I never had to tell my son to hit or throw or work out. I never did and never will and never would. What I did was show him what it was going to take. Got him around people with a drive and passion to be great. And then let it take hold.

"What are you doing today? Playing video games? Hanging out? Eating chips and drinking soda sitting on the couch? What is your competition doing today? When you lay down at night before you go to bed ask yourself this question. Did I work to be special today? Did someone out there out work me today? Never lay down at night and know they did. Go to sleep knowing you did everything you could do to be the very best you can be."

As a parent "Learn what it takes" "Teach them to push themselves" "Encourage them" "Get them around others that want to be special" and you can sit back and watch the fire grow. And you will know it when it happens. You will be the one saying "Don't you think you can take a day off son?"

Your not going to play for me if your not willing to do what it takes to be special. Your going to work harder than anyone your going to ever play. Your going to take that same work ethic to the class room. Your going to invest so much between games that losing is not going to be an option. And if your not willing to invest your not going to be around. And if you do stick around I am going to know you want to be special and are willing to do what it takes to be special. And you will be special.

If you don't know what it takes find out. And then teach your son to push himself. There will come a time when his talent is not going to be the determining factor. Its going to be his desire to grind it. Its easy to love the game when its easy. When the return does not take much of an investment. As he gets older and the investment required to play this game increases and the return decreases, is limited, is sometimes hard to even see, thats when you find out how much a young man really loves this game.

Long post. Rambling post. I could so many examples. Players who are in the Majors now to players who played college baseball who could hardly catch as freshman in HS. But all who wanted to be special, bad enough to push themselves in order to get there.

Great post, Coach May.

My husband and I have been reading all posts this morning and they are all very appreciated. I'm going to look into his arm and arm care right away. Next, I'm going to look into a player at the next level for him to meet with. Thx again

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:

"If you do what everyone else is doing you are working on being average. If your goal is to be like everyone else then you may just do that. You may just reach your goal of being average."

Coach May, that was perhaps the best post you've ever made! So good in fact I had to send it to our son.
Thank you Coach May.

Many of us have been through the same thought process as the OP. I decided early on that I would count myself a success as a sport parent if my son still loved playing the game as a senior in high school. I am happy to report that he still does, although I know I messed up along the way.

The only advice I would add is when in doubt, back off. He will find his own way in his own time. Once he becomes motivated he can make very quick progress, making up for lost time.

I look at it like a relationship. you can encourage it, but you can't force it.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Create an environment that nurtures a young man's desire to be the best he can be.

Great post, you covered a lot of ground but this is the line that shouted out to me.

This should pertain to everything in your children's life, teach them to be the best they can be in everything they do, don't take anything for granted. If you instill this at an early age, they pretty much with your help figure it out as they mature.

I agree strongly with BOF's post. There will be plenty of work out/conditioning time when they get to HS.

Thanks Coach May for your recent post, I have seen the light.

Sometimes people get blinded by what they wish for not what they see.

From the time my kids started school I asked them what their goals were for the year. This was a life conversation, not just a school conversation. At five my son wanted to be the best roller blader in the neighborhood. My kids had different personalities and set goals differently when they were little. By eighth grade their goals were more in synch.

We would sit down and map out a plan for their goals. They never cut themselves any slack on their goals. I didn't push them. But if I didn't feel the work was being put in to reach a goal and I saw them on the sofa watching tv, I would ask them if that was a way to reach their goals. By setting their own goals I only had to ask them if they were reaching them. They knew the answer. It allowed them to be self critical rather than me pushing them.

AS REGARDS THE TENDONITIS ---U SAY HE IS RELATIVELY NEW TO PITCHING----HOW ARE HIS MECHANICS?

TRhit: He has been corrected before by his coaches for "leading with his ebow". Or having his elbow out in front. That is the only thing mechanic wise that I can think of that has been pointed out.

hi bbmom323, 8th grade and already 6'1" WOW! You need to find him a good pithcing coach! I believe around 12 or 13 a pitcher should get quality lessons so they have a better chance to throw hard and not hurt their arms. IMHO, this is the age kids seem to start trying to throw hard and they are getting big enough to damage their arm. Frequent tendenitis is not common or a good thing. Find someone to help figure out what is causing the problem and them work on eliminating the the poor mechanics.

As to pushing him, I'd say make sure he knows you support him and that you want the best for him and to help him realize his goals. Set him down and talk about goals and what it takes to realize them. Many teens don't REALLY understand goals and how to achieve them. Once he understands what it takes to realize his goals he will either decide to work to achieve them or not? To make it at the higher levels of college and the pros he is going to have to want it. You can "push him" until you are blue in the face and IMO to no avail unless he REALLY wants to make it to. Playing baseball at the higher levels really has to be his goal and understanding what it takes to achieve his goals are the first steps I would take.

Al Ma 08: Thank you for your post, yes, he has always been tall but one thing I think I should probably clarify a bit is that we did hold him back in Kindergarten purely academic reasons. He technically should be a freshman. He is 14 1\2. I do not know alot about pitching myself nor does his dad really. We honestly haven't considered him a pitcher much until this last year. He has struggled with control and I really thought that was what it was mostly about lol. Now i'm hearing that he throws with good "velocity", and good "movement". After reading all of your posts there will be no more pitching until we have his mechanics evaluated and an off season conditioning and arm care program.

Hey bbmom323, You probably did the right thing in holding him back. Don't fret over that! I often felt we should have had held ours back. When scouts start looking at your son they are most interested in his graduation year, not his age. On a popular scouting web site he may get ranked against his peers and velocity is one of the key components to this rating, age is not really factored in when compared to kids graduatung at the same time. I have heard scouts say you can teach ball control, you can't teach velocity! An easy motion with high velocity and movement will get him noticed. My best example of that is the closer for the Atlanta Braves, Kimbrell. We played against him in HS where he struggled with command but he could certainly bring the heat! A tall frame is also a desirable feature scouts like, gives more downward plane on the ball delivered to the batter.

I suggest the pitching coach you employ teach mechanics that provides an advantage for your son's tall frame. There are different techniques out there. I suggest you look for someone that promotes "staying tall" (as opposed to dropping or bending at the knee) and bringing the ball over the top to take advantage of your son's height.

Al MA 08: His coach last year said he instead of throwing over the top he tends to throw from the side a bit I dont think this was corrected because of the movement coming from it? In your opinion do you think this could be where the tendonitis could be coming from? We are starting a new travel team this next season in which the coaches are more knowledgeable. We tried out for five teams this tryout season and he had offers from all. "He" actually chose one with a less shiny name that offered better opportunities and more knowledgeable coaching. Thx again for your time.

Yes, throwing from the side does put more stress on the arm (mostly the elbow). As you pointed out, it seems to get the elbow out in front which is not desirable. Generally throwing side-arm (or low arm slot) will generate more movement. You will even see some come from way down under, I call a "submarine" pitch.

You can generate movement over the top by getting the wrist involved and snapping the wrist from top to bottom as part of the release. I would advise getting a pitching coach separate from the travel team coaches. A dedicated pitching coach has no agenda but improving the student pitcher. The "side-arm" pitch does not take advantage of height and very rarely generates consistant higher velocity. These are a few (and there are other negitives) to throwing side-arm to generate a more movement. From my experiance I saw kids that could not generate consistant high velocity use such techniques to be affective on the mound. None of the kids I know that threw side-arm are still pitching.

My son is also in 8th grade, though he's "only" 5'7" but is very athletic. He's dedicated to playing catcher and has semi-specialized at that position for about 3 years now. He's also a very good (LH) hitter. I've found that for his development it is critical that he plays with skilled, or better yet, better players. He's been the starting catcher on a 15u team and playing up for the past 3 seasons. When he's the best, or one of the best players, he tends to coast in practices (never games) and does not push himself.

He also thrives when getting excellent instruction, something I cannot do. So, I shell out the bucks for quality, focused instruction, and try to make sure he's on a very good team so he pushed himself. I finally figured all of this out about 1.5 years ago. If I push him, he pushes back and it often gets counter-productive.

Good luck going forward!

A kid that loves baseball will not burnout.....nor does he need to be pushed to achieve, however you sometimes have to remind them they "must be present to win".

At the Junior High level I think its hard for kids to figure out what they need to do and no amount of parental pushing seems to help. Sometimes a good coach can help a great deal in this area with suggestions to the kid opportunities to play or practice. Its even tougher for a kid who is a pitcher because its easy to over do it and screw the arm up and I am not sure that 8th grade is really the time to start lifting weights etc..

As a position player, there aren't as many overuse concerns at the Jr High level. My son used to practice with another team in our Babe Ruth league, I didn't suggest it to him, the other coach asked him if he wanted to get some more ab's....and catch bp... Sometimes an outside assist can help in this area.

If you know a scout, take your son to a game the scout is watching to hear his comments about the players on the field and what he is looking for. The scout will probebely tell him everything you did, except your son may listen.

The simple fact is that as players move up the ladder the players are seriously self-motivated and kids that aren't can't compete.

IMO, I think that you are getting advice overload.

It's not necessary that you push your son to condition if he has no idea as to how to condition.
When mine was that age there was no conditioning, but lots of activities, swimming, basketball, golf, etc. to keep active and the conditioning began when he started HS.

What you do need to do is to find out why the frequent tendinitous, you have not mentioned where, arm, shoulder, elbow? When was the last time it occured, what did you do about it and is is still there. id he pitched too much as a fairly new pitcher, did he pitch and then take another position after he pitched?

Is he on a long toss program?

Get this squared away before you worry about the other stuff, if he loves the game it will all take care of itself. If he has been over used and and has an injury, he won't want to do anything.

Despite what some may think, tendinitous is not always a result of overuse. Again, make this an off season priority if this is a concern.

TPM:All of the advice has been great. I have learned that I'm probably pushing to hard. I need to nurture his love for the game. I need to find him a mentor at a higher level to share what it truly takes. And I will be finding a pitching coach to evaluate his mechanics. I do not think over use, I am concerned more about mechanics. Thanks again for everyone's advice.

mom323,
Good take-aways. With your son about to start HS, you picked a great time to tap into some of the resources of HSBBW. If he continues to play, I'm guessing you will find yourself coming back often. There is also a trove of info available by doing searches of past threads. Please give us some updates from time to time so others can learn from your path as well.

Cabbagedad:absolutely will do, thx again.