How has failure helped your son succeed?

He still has a load of time---wait until July 1 before you cry

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He still has a load of time---wait until July 1 before you cry

Have no idea what you are refferring too, no one here is cryng?

This was last year, my sons a 2009 and he's moving on to attend college in 1 month and begin his college career.

I was simply sharing how his failure fueled his desire to improve.

Just TR being TR. Obviously he didn't read the whole post.

I've always told my kids that you can learn more from your failures than you do from your successes, if you're willing to keep trying, that is. Obviously your son was willing to keep trying, and to his benefit. Good for him!

How many tries did it take Edison to invent the light bulb? Just another example of learning from failure and being willing to try again... and again... and again!

There are always setbacks. Or goals not achieved. We never thought of them as “failure”. I don’t think we ever used that word with any of our sons. We have experienced injury, that was the toughest setback to overcome. What motivates a player to become better, to dig deep and dedicate themselves to achieving goals?

If a player is competitive in nature he will rise above the adversity in their lives. If for no other reason than to prove the naysayers wrong.

Good advice floridafan. If something good comes from some former challenge, then perhaps that challenge wasn't a failure, but a "lesson". Life is full of lessons at every age.

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If a player is competitive in nature he will rise above the adversity in their lives. If for no other reason than to prove the naysayers wrong.

This is an interesting question, because it has many levels. Baseball being a game of failure, everyone who plays has failed repeatedly in games.

But the failure you are referencing isn't so much the failure of playing (not getting the key hit, making an error, walking in a run, etc.) but is rather the failure to be recognized as he thinks he should.

And I agree this can be a motivator. But it really isn't "failure" in the sense of how we think of the game of baseball.

The term "rising senior" is used to open the story---my bad if I interpreted it as that--

I also agree with Rob that it is not failure

I disagree with the player selection process in the "so called" state games like this---the selction panel should know enough about the region players to just select the rosters without tryouts

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Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
This is an interesting question, because it has many levels. Baseball being a game of failure, everyone who plays has failed repeatedly in games.

But the failure you are referencing isn't so much the failure of playing (not getting the key hit, making an error, walking in a run, etc.) but is rather the failure to be recognized as he thinks he should.

And I agree this can be a motivator. But it really isn't "failure" in the sense of how we think of the game of baseball.

Great post and good points Rob!

Looking back on things, I can see where setbacks or failure led to long term growth but it is not something any of us look forward to nor should we.

I look for positive ways to deal with things. I really like the Edison example cited above. The reason Edison was able to fail 1000 times and not lose his faith in himself was that ultimately he had a vision in mind of something "perfect" that he wanted to achieve. Thus, persistence and hard work with long term vision trumps/defeats failure every time in my mind.

More importantly, failure has been improperly defined in my mind. ESPN might derisively report a player went 0-4 or gave up a homerun as a sign of failure. I would never analyze a game for my son that way If he hits a ball right on the screws that is caught for an out, he gets credit for a base hit when I talk to him after a game. If he works a pitcher for many pitches before striking out on a tough pitch, he gets credit for making the pitcher work. If he moves a runner into scoring position with less than two outs, he gets credit for that. If he gets on base because he hustled and caused a fielder to make an error, he gets credit for that. If his team wins - the most important thing, he always gets some credit for that. If he makes an error, he gets credit when he makes the next play and for not carrying the previous play with him. If his team should lose because of him, he gets credit from me for having the courage to try.

If it isn't apparent by now, I really don't believe in failure. I believe the mental part of the game is one of the most important parts. Pitchers' parents can do the same thing with their kids. If a kid threw a perfect pitch to the spot that was called for and some other kid golfed a base hit off him, then my pitcher would get credit for throwing a good pitch. This type of thinking can go on ad infinitum in baseball.

There are millions of ways to find victories or success from defeat or failure. Don't let others define it for you. More importantly, like Edison, always maintain that perfect vision of yourself as a ballplayer.

Failure,...
makes you look inward to see what you are made of. It provides challenge for the soul. Gonna let failure defeat ya,..or are you going to find a way to try-try again?

If wants came easy,...would they be as rewarding? If you never stumbled would success be appreciated as much?

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My son used this exeprience to fuel his desire and worked his tail off over the past year to improve his breaking pitch and his entire repotoire. He has really improved since his non-selection

Great news!!


Yes,...failure has helped my son, its helped all of us. It sure can be a pain in the ol' hiney,...but darn if it doesnt make ya work harder,...and that to me is a good thing.

I agree, this wasn't about failure, but about making the necessary improvements to improve your game to reach your goals.

Someone told me once, that true failure in this game comes when you do not take constructive criticism (for improvement) and use it to your best advantage.

I agree with Floridafan, failure should not be used to describe, "not getting it done". Rather than say performance in this game is about failure, it is more about setbacks.

I didn't see any whining in your post but rather being objective and as a parent seeing the situation objectively. There has been a lot of parents (and players) coming here lately stating that they feel they didn't get their fair due. But your son did what is needed to move to the next level, instead of taking the attitude, "he doesn't know what he is talking about", he used that to work harder to achieve a particular goal. That's what this game is all about.

best of luck to your son.

If your son plays for a HS program that does not win more than 6 games a year in season over three seasons is that failure ? I do not think so especiually when the player moves on to college baseball---I call it playing thru adversity and succeeding

I prefer to look at what some calls failure as "challenges" and use those challenges to motivate. But at the same time we should know our limits lest we sacrifice much in quest of the unobtainable. We've all heard the sayings that should at least make us analyze our goals and our paths. "Discretion is the better part of valor" --- "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" ---- "Fools rush in where angles fear to tread" can be the best advice a young player receives but gets much less hoopla than a "Go for it", "Get 'er done", "Let's roll" or "just do it". We long remember the Edisons and Michael Jordons of the world but we should also remember the Steve Fossetts and Donald Campbells when we face big challenges.

I like to look at these things as failure. Failing to make the team. Failing to come through in the clutch. Failing to impress those you wish to impress. Failing to do what you needed to do to win.

This motivates you to do whatever you have to do to not fail the next time. There are things you should never fail at. Failing to continue to compete. Failing to continue to work to get better.

You might fail again. But that doesnt stop you from working to not fail. It motivates you. It stirs that burning desire inside you to prove everyone else wrong. Failure is part of life and its part of baseball. We all fail. How we handle it and how we direct our pain from failure is what separtes us. Fear of failure is defeat. Anger at failure drives us to success.

When you are allowed to be faced with failure and your taught to attack it you can. When you are told is ok and your allowed to find excuses instead of taught to look for solutions you never will.

Just my way of looking at it , everyone has their own way. Fear of losing drives me to win. Fear of failure causes me to work harder than everyone else. Fear of failure drives me to be the best I can be. I dont like to win half as much as I hate to lose.

So to me failure is a wonderful thing. Without it where would the motivation to succeed be? And without it where would the joy in overcoming the obstacles to defeat failure come from.

There is nothing like seeing a player knocked down or a team knocked down , pull themselves or itself up by the bootstraps and find success. Bring on the failure because without the fear of failing there can be no joy in winning.

Fear of failure.
There are some that can use that to improve their game, others it can take over like a cancer and destroy it.

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Failures and setbacks are part of baseball and life.
When someone does fail or has a setback first they have to admit it and face it. If excuses are made every time a player doesn't get the desired result then they might feel they have nothing to correct and might make the same mistake again.

Also, the fear of failure is a double edge situation. Fear of failure can motivate someone to work harder and be better prepared. But, sometimes, fear of failure can stop someone from taking a chance or pushing themselves harder.

If a player is afraid to fail in a crucial situation he might be too tight and nervous to perform at his best. If he accepts the challenge without fear of failure he will be in a better frame of mind to succeed.

Fear of failure can be a motivator and a hinderance.

Fear of failure is usually a lack of preparation. A prepared player doesn't have a lot to fear. At that point he either has it or he doesn't.

My son has "failed" three times that became learning experiences.

1) The first time was striking out with the based loaded, two outs, down one in the bottom of the seventh in a travel tournament game. He chucked his bat over the dugout. Fortunately it was into trees and not fans. I (was the head coach) took him out to the trees to retrieve his bat. While there I gave him the worst chewing out he's experienced in his life. I took away his uniform. I told he embarassed the team. Four years later the only negative reaction has been one time to stare at an umpire after a called third in a high school game.

2) He was the last cut from varsity as a freshman. While disappointed it wasn't the end of the world to start JV as a freshman. He understood why he didn't make it before I told him. He told me he didn't have the upper body strength I told him would be the difference. He did the work and started as a soph.

3) He was cut from our region's Carpenter Cup (regional high school all-star tournment) team as a soph. This is a great resume builder for college baseball. His only response was, "I saw what I have to do. I WILL make it next year."

Last HS season, my son was a freshman. Before the season started he was taking pitching lessons. His pitching coach is the pitching coach for the AA Red Sox team. One of our last sessions I was talking to him about the upcoming tryouts. I told him that I hoped my son was able to pitch some varsity during the year in order to challenge him where he would actually have to pitch and not just chuck fastballs. He told me a couple of things. One was that he thought the coaches were stupid if they didn't put him on the varsity team (ringing endorsement for son's skills). The other thing he said was that he hoped he did make varsity and that he got rocked - at least once.

When I asked him why, he said one of the biggest things they have to deal with at the MiLB level is that so many of their pitchers have been dominant their whole life. He said at that level, every pitcher will get rocked at some time. Because of their previous dominance, many of them have a hard time coming back from that bad outing. Mentally, their confidence is shaken and it is often very hard to for them to come back.

Well, son did make varsity and did well overall. There was one game in particular that was, I think, what his pitching coach was looking for. He had beaten this team earlier in the year, but threw way too many fastballs this time around. He got rocked for like 8 or 9 runs in 3+ innings. After the game I talked to him about it and told him he could either look at this game and figure out what he did wrong and improve on it, or just think that he stinks and give up. His response was "I stunk tonight".

Next game, he threw a complete game, 7 innings, 67 pitches, 2 hits, 1 unearned run and won the game 3-1. Pretty good recovery.

The experiences our kids face in baseball and life will only serve to make them better in the long run. My son believes in himself and believed that he could come back next time and do a better job. He did.

The worse thing that can happen is that someone loses their confidence following one of these "failures". If they begin to believe that they are a failure because of failing at a particular task, that is trouble. If they realize that they are not a failure, but simply failed at that particular task they were undertaking - be it pitching, hitting, fielding, taking a test, whatever - they will be able to overcome and be successful.

My son learned two simple things. The world doesn't end and his family still loves him.

Dutchman,

IMO - I think it all depends on how much you want to play - how much desire you have to succeed.

You will always face failure - Baseball is - for the most part - a game of dealing with failure.

Sometimes the failure is your fault - and sometimes it isnt. But it doesnt make all that much a difference whose fault it is.

The only thing that really matters is how you deal with the failure.

I think the willingness to do that is directly proportionate to how much you love the game and how badly you want to keep on playing. Even if you know the end is near.

Tell your son - that sometimes players get overlooked - for lots of reasons. His goal should be to play so well that they just cant afford to overlook him next time.

The proper perspective on failure is it's a speedbump on the way to success. It's a lesson in what has to be done to succeed. I know kids who haven't failed. They didn't challenge themselves.

I always knew who my better players were by not how they reacted to success but how they reacted to failure.

That said today kids are sometimes given the soft approach. You know everybody plays everybody gets a trophy. It used to be ok when a kid was 4 or 5 but there comes a time when reality sets in. No not everybody plays and everybody does not get a trophy.

I see high school leagues where there are 8 teams and 6 make the playoffs. Many times that 5th and 6th team has a losing record. I always thought making it to post season play was a reward for a good season.

The competitive part of life will kick in sooner or later. I believe the longer it is delayed by the everybody is a winner thought the harder failure will be.

this may sound harsh but everybody has to grow up.

The players who see failure as an oportunity to complain and blame others truly fail.

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I see high school leagues where there are 8 teams and 6 make the playoffs. Many times that 5th and 6th team has a losing record. I always thought making it to post season play was a reward for a good season.

I always thought letting in those teams was a 'reward' for the top seeds... They cruise into the Championship brackets while the middle seeds beat each other up....

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I see high school leagues where there are 8 teams and 6 make the playoffs. Many times that 5th and 6th team has a losing record. I always thought making it to post season play was a reward for a good season.

Good teams are rewarded in HS leagues. In our state, you have to have a .500 record by a certain date to even qualify for the state tournament, then the ones that qualify are seeded based on record and winning a division title and strength of schedule. In the conference tournament, every team qualifies but the lowest seeds have to play two extra rounds while the top seeds get two byes and teams seeded in the middle get one bye.

Maybe it look like you're rewarding a playoff to a team who had a bad year but so what. HS baseball's season is short as it is and even shorter for those who fail to qualify for the state tournament. At least with the conference tournament every team gets a chance to extend their season and play for something. The top teams have the easy road to the championship so for a lower seed to pull off a major upset of the top 3-5 teams, they have their work cut out for them just to get the chance to play that deep in the tournament to get to the higher seed teams.

In our area about 25% of the teams make districts in large school (AAAA). At the lowest level (A) all the teams make districts. All eight.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
He still has a load of time---wait until July 1 before you cry

ROFL! I'm sorry but I could not stop laughing when I read this quote from TR.

It has been awhile since I found a topic that has been this interesting.

I thought about it for awhile longer - and only in terms I could relate to.

One of the things that struck me - was the changes in our culture - as Will so accurately pointed out - and the way certain sports are more susceptible to it.

In youth football - that stuff is still hard to cover up. Once you get to high school - Mommy and Daddy cant cover up for you. They cant prevent you from getting knocked out cold. LOL
If you fail - you will know it - and your doctor will verify it for you.

The same goes for boxing.

But in youth baseball - Mommy and Daddy can cover up for you alot longer. If they know the right people - or have the right amount of money - they can provide some real good cover for alot longer than a football player or a boxer.

Having been through this 15 year cycle with my boys - I would agree with Will. The "Everyone gets a Trophy" routine - and the relentless hype of players through a variety of newly created media outlets - is hurting these kids more than helping them.

When most of these coddled players reach the right age - and have to deal with the kids that were not brought up this way - the awakening is harsh and rude and in some cases frightening. More so than it ever should be IMO.

I guess - like anything else in life - there is always a price to pay.

Burnout! There is absolutely nothing wrong with being burnt out. IMO

First of all, I see burn out as simply a form of failure. Not a failure to feel embarrassed about, but none the less a form of failure. You, the player has decided to give up. The reasons can be many and they might be very good reasons. Once again it becomes important that you overcome this failure and find something you have the desire to succeed at. It’s really not that big a deal if someone burns out on something. Unless you burn out on everything.

The very best don’t seem to suffer from burn out. At least not while they are extremely successful. However, those who have figured out that this is an unlikely path to success often do burn out. Or at least that is what some call it. Failure can be a good thing for some and failure for others can be explained away as burn out. How the heck do major league players keep from getting burnt out? Maybe for some burn out is just a temporary thing. Kind of like needing a vacation. Take the vacation and get back at it.

From a scouting perspective burn out can be classified as one of the many things that pertain to make up. Tell a scout that you feel a bit burnt out right now and I can tell you what will be on the report. If you’re burnt out as a kid, how are you ever going to someday make it through spring training, 162 game schedule and hopefully the playoffs? So once again, burn out becomes a good thing for everyone involved. It points both the young man and the scout in the right direction. It is in the best interest of everyone. Nothing wrong with that.

I know there are many who will disagree with my theory, but in my mind it has been proven over and over. Here is just one example…

Several years ago there was a player who was among the most talented ever from his state. He played in our wood bat leagues. He had everything including a 90+ arm as a lefty when only a sophomore. His brother was a college star at the time and is now a Big league regular that everyone knows. By the time he was entering his senior year, the scouts were showing extreme interest. He was a true first round candidate. Every week scouts would call our office to make sure he was going to play that weekend. So we would call and he would nearly always say he’s not sure, he might have other commitments. We would always end up talking him into showing up. It was always a battle! He then did get drafted in an early round and signed for a lot of money.

Long story short… During the first unsuccessful year in Rookie Ball, he quit, saying he was burnt out and didn’t really like baseball. Geez… He had been telling us that for a couple years, but we just didn’t listen close enough. We listen very closely ever since then. All make up issues don’t involve character flaws or are negative in real life. This kid is a great person today, he’s just not playing baseball. Some lack the talent, some lack the mentality, some lack the desire.

Therefore, I believe burn out is a good thing, for everyone concerned. I surely don’t expect most people to understand that or even agree with it. And as always, I could be wrong!

However, there are some kids who are not burned out by the game itself, but by the parents and organizers around them who often draw the fun out of the game. Some of these kids can be instantly recharged in a more positive environment, or at least in a new environment. Probably why so many MLB players don't mind getting traded! I guess the things we love the most can be the most painful to us: Marriage, life itself.. and baseball. Everyone deserves a second chance.

If you really love the game and love playing the game - noone can burn you out.

The media - the parents - the organizers - the fans - noone.

If you really love the game - you will play it until you are thrown out of it.

That is a big part of a players success IMO.
Not the only part - but a big part nonetheless.

Son has failed more than three times :-) - failed more than I can remember. He has also been successful - and we dwell more on those moments. He, his dad, and a coach talk about what works, what doesn't - fail or succeed. I think he (and most people) are able to combine the two. When he is on the mound, I've noticed his comfort level is increasing. He also takes responsibility. Once I remember a conversation about a huge double. He threw something that just begged to be hit, and it was. He said if the batter hadn't hit it, kid should have been kicked off the team it was such a meat ball. He realized what he had done mechanically, and corrected it for the next batter.

We have been reading the book TMG over the summer and have enjoyed it.

(I disagree with Its a tiny bit, but I think that if it is what the player wants, then the parents don't need to push. Don't know about anything beyond the high school level.)

Burn out - the kids I've seen burn out have been pushed too hard by parents. Whatever desire they have is used up before they ever reach their potential. I know one dad who is pushing his son, even injured. (surgery involved - didn't follow drs advice on recoup and rehab time) Unbelievable.

Others I feel have used excuses - pushy parents, bad coaches, limited play time or whatever - to quit.

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However, there are some kids who are not burned out by the game itself, but by the parents and organizers around them who often draw the fun out of the game.

There is a time to push and a time to back off. Knowing the difference is key.

"There is no failure except in no longer trying."