I want to know what the high school coaches think about the way hitting is being taught on here. Also how do you go about teaching hitting to your team and what do you focus on? What are the major flaws you see year after year?
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I'm assuming you mean that how hitting is being taught overall - correct?
Personally hitting is one of the areas that is the hardest to fix once bad habits set in. In my 17 years coaching HS baseball at 4 schools virtually all of my players came through a rec league that pretty much didn't teach them anything correctly. I would see hands down by the waist, stride / swing be the same movement, trying to roll the wrists at contact, keeping the back elbow up so high it's in the air and just ridiculous things like that. I would get them at age 14/15 as Freshmen and it was a bear to fix them because their muscle memory was stuck. They would actually want to learn how to hit my way but they would struggle. My teams started making better progress when I was able to create a Frosh team out of 7th, 8th and 9th graders and get them into my system early before bad habits set in.
I'm a firm believer in drills and the building block method of developing a hitter. There will be some who get on here and go with the opposite philosophy and not really use a lot of drills.
We start out trying to make them realize that the stride and swing is two separate motions. Nothing irritates me more as to see the foot coming down and the hands / back shoulder following it. Overall I'm not a big fan of making all my players do the step or heel lift - I want them to do something comfortable. We show them both ways and tell them to do what they think is comfortable. Overall we don't really make huge adjustments - especially if it's working or is done right. We will step in and correct things that are obviously wrong.
So to separate the stride and swing we get everyone in a large group spread out. We get them some kind of throwdown plate (take a pizza box and cut one out) and have them set up "facing" a pitcher. Myself of one of my coaches will yell "stride" and the players stride or heel lift. Then they hold the pose as we look for good base, balance, hands back, weight back and things like this. Then we tell them "reset" and they go back to pre-stride stance. We do this several times to let them see that there is a separation from the swing.
Then we add to this drill by saying "stride" and pausing and calling "A" "B" "C" to indicate pitch location. A is inside, B down middle and C outside. Once they hear the location they take a cut and stop at the point of where we would want contact. So if they hear "A" the bat head needs to be around through the zone. Hear "B" bat head needs to be about over the middle of the plate and "C" is outside back corner. Then we will throw in "stride"......"curve / change"......"ABC". When they hear curve / change they have to yell out "delay" before getting location.
The purpose of hearing all the words - stride, delay, ABC - is to start getting it into their head that in order to be successful they need to separate the stride, recognize the pitch and recognize to stay back on offspeed pitches. It's not a cureall or a huge drill to teach these things but I've found younger players with less experience really learn from this progression. I don't do it as much with my older guys but when they struggle I usually see them working on this on their own before the hop into the cage. It's a good tool to introduce / reinforce the separation of stride / swing.
Next thing we teach is swing path to the ball. We never could afford one of those fancy tees with the huge sorta upside down "U" where the bat head travels into the "U" and hits the ball off the tee (I hope you can picture what I'm describing - Tony Gwynn endorsed them one year if I remember correctly). Since we could afford that we got creative and used an old bat and chair. We set the chair behind a normal Tee and let them swing away. What happens tells you if your swing path is correct or not. We call the correct swing path "landing the plane".
- hit the chair then you have dropped your hands, bat head or back side is collapsing too far.
- ball comes off the Tee and hits the ground immediately in front of the Tee then you are "chopping" down. We call it "crashing the plane" because the bat head came at the ball at too severe of an angle causing the ball to bounce in front.
- ball comes off Tee hard and straight into the net. This is "landing the plane" because the path of the bat head was just right to hit a linedrive into the net.
A couple of swings and knowing what you are trying to accomplish works wonders in finding that swing path. Over the years we have went through many chairs and the guys get a kick out of finding the old chairs to beat up. But remember to get an old bat that you really won't need anymore. We've even used some old -5 bats.
Next we start teaching "A" and "C" hitting by setting up more Tees along our batting tunnel. We throw down a plate again and set up a Tee on the "A" location and set up another Tee with the "C" location. We have them stride and pause before taking a good cut and hit the ball into the net. We try to mirror the swings to see that the swing doesn't change because of location. They want the ball to hit middleish away on the "C" Tee and middleish in on the "A" Tee. You can even hang something down the net - ribbon or belt - as sort of a guide of where to hit it. You can even do this drill in the tunnel and hit the appropriate wall for "A" and "C".
Next thing we do is take a tunnel and split it in half with netting. So we're able to take a 70' tunnel and now make it 35' with two hitters at once. I'm a big believer in repetition and many cuts done correctly. So now with the cage cut in half I can get two hitters working at once with players throwing to them. Being half the distance helps with the accuracy and the pitcher just has to toss into the zone. We don't want lobs and really don't want it too hard because we want them to hit it but it saves on coaches from having to pitch all the time and can now walk around instructing on the different groups going. We tell our guys to take about 6 - 9 cuts and get out becuase after that they will start getting tired and bad habits creep in. Overall they will go through 2 or 3 times before switching groups and in a normal day with all drills they will probably end up with several hundred swings.
The short cage is awesome because it can also help during pregame BP if you know you are facing a guy throwing some heat. Being close and throwing it hard will make the pitch during the game seem slower.
There are other drills we do but these are the main onese that really hit home what we are trying to teach. I'm a big believer in these drills because over the years we have had some guys mash but these drills alone won't get it done. Work in soft toss, whiffle balls, thunderstick, top / bottom hand to go along with these drills but to teach a swing I'm a firm believer in these main drills.
Once the season starts we don't do as much of the main drills (besides short cage) but my guys will go back to them on their own if they struggle. But as with everything they have to work at it. My guys have been pretty responsible and not goof off when they work. I rarely see a kid at a drill not taking it serious but that's because they know I will tear into them for wasting time. Plus I usually group older guys with younger guys to help teach. I've been doing the same thing for years with minor tweaks here and there. That helps because the older guys know what to do, what to look for and even how to correct it. When I do change something up my older guys pick up on it right away and help pass it onto my younger guys.
Hope this helps you some and other guys will get on here and post some more great stuff but I do swear by these drills.
Personally hitting is one of the areas that is the hardest to fix once bad habits set in. In my 17 years coaching HS baseball at 4 schools virtually all of my players came through a rec league that pretty much didn't teach them anything correctly. I would see hands down by the waist, stride / swing be the same movement, trying to roll the wrists at contact, keeping the back elbow up so high it's in the air and just ridiculous things like that. I would get them at age 14/15 as Freshmen and it was a bear to fix them because their muscle memory was stuck. They would actually want to learn how to hit my way but they would struggle. My teams started making better progress when I was able to create a Frosh team out of 7th, 8th and 9th graders and get them into my system early before bad habits set in.
I'm a firm believer in drills and the building block method of developing a hitter. There will be some who get on here and go with the opposite philosophy and not really use a lot of drills.
We start out trying to make them realize that the stride and swing is two separate motions. Nothing irritates me more as to see the foot coming down and the hands / back shoulder following it. Overall I'm not a big fan of making all my players do the step or heel lift - I want them to do something comfortable. We show them both ways and tell them to do what they think is comfortable. Overall we don't really make huge adjustments - especially if it's working or is done right. We will step in and correct things that are obviously wrong.
So to separate the stride and swing we get everyone in a large group spread out. We get them some kind of throwdown plate (take a pizza box and cut one out) and have them set up "facing" a pitcher. Myself of one of my coaches will yell "stride" and the players stride or heel lift. Then they hold the pose as we look for good base, balance, hands back, weight back and things like this. Then we tell them "reset" and they go back to pre-stride stance. We do this several times to let them see that there is a separation from the swing.
Then we add to this drill by saying "stride" and pausing and calling "A" "B" "C" to indicate pitch location. A is inside, B down middle and C outside. Once they hear the location they take a cut and stop at the point of where we would want contact. So if they hear "A" the bat head needs to be around through the zone. Hear "B" bat head needs to be about over the middle of the plate and "C" is outside back corner. Then we will throw in "stride"......"curve / change"......"ABC". When they hear curve / change they have to yell out "delay" before getting location.
The purpose of hearing all the words - stride, delay, ABC - is to start getting it into their head that in order to be successful they need to separate the stride, recognize the pitch and recognize to stay back on offspeed pitches. It's not a cureall or a huge drill to teach these things but I've found younger players with less experience really learn from this progression. I don't do it as much with my older guys but when they struggle I usually see them working on this on their own before the hop into the cage. It's a good tool to introduce / reinforce the separation of stride / swing.
Next thing we teach is swing path to the ball. We never could afford one of those fancy tees with the huge sorta upside down "U" where the bat head travels into the "U" and hits the ball off the tee (I hope you can picture what I'm describing - Tony Gwynn endorsed them one year if I remember correctly). Since we could afford that we got creative and used an old bat and chair. We set the chair behind a normal Tee and let them swing away. What happens tells you if your swing path is correct or not. We call the correct swing path "landing the plane".
- hit the chair then you have dropped your hands, bat head or back side is collapsing too far.
- ball comes off the Tee and hits the ground immediately in front of the Tee then you are "chopping" down. We call it "crashing the plane" because the bat head came at the ball at too severe of an angle causing the ball to bounce in front.
- ball comes off Tee hard and straight into the net. This is "landing the plane" because the path of the bat head was just right to hit a linedrive into the net.
A couple of swings and knowing what you are trying to accomplish works wonders in finding that swing path. Over the years we have went through many chairs and the guys get a kick out of finding the old chairs to beat up. But remember to get an old bat that you really won't need anymore. We've even used some old -5 bats.
Next we start teaching "A" and "C" hitting by setting up more Tees along our batting tunnel. We throw down a plate again and set up a Tee on the "A" location and set up another Tee with the "C" location. We have them stride and pause before taking a good cut and hit the ball into the net. We try to mirror the swings to see that the swing doesn't change because of location. They want the ball to hit middleish away on the "C" Tee and middleish in on the "A" Tee. You can even hang something down the net - ribbon or belt - as sort of a guide of where to hit it. You can even do this drill in the tunnel and hit the appropriate wall for "A" and "C".
Next thing we do is take a tunnel and split it in half with netting. So we're able to take a 70' tunnel and now make it 35' with two hitters at once. I'm a big believer in repetition and many cuts done correctly. So now with the cage cut in half I can get two hitters working at once with players throwing to them. Being half the distance helps with the accuracy and the pitcher just has to toss into the zone. We don't want lobs and really don't want it too hard because we want them to hit it but it saves on coaches from having to pitch all the time and can now walk around instructing on the different groups going. We tell our guys to take about 6 - 9 cuts and get out becuase after that they will start getting tired and bad habits creep in. Overall they will go through 2 or 3 times before switching groups and in a normal day with all drills they will probably end up with several hundred swings.
The short cage is awesome because it can also help during pregame BP if you know you are facing a guy throwing some heat. Being close and throwing it hard will make the pitch during the game seem slower.
There are other drills we do but these are the main onese that really hit home what we are trying to teach. I'm a big believer in these drills because over the years we have had some guys mash but these drills alone won't get it done. Work in soft toss, whiffle balls, thunderstick, top / bottom hand to go along with these drills but to teach a swing I'm a firm believer in these main drills.
Once the season starts we don't do as much of the main drills (besides short cage) but my guys will go back to them on their own if they struggle. But as with everything they have to work at it. My guys have been pretty responsible and not goof off when they work. I rarely see a kid at a drill not taking it serious but that's because they know I will tear into them for wasting time. Plus I usually group older guys with younger guys to help teach. I've been doing the same thing for years with minor tweaks here and there. That helps because the older guys know what to do, what to look for and even how to correct it. When I do change something up my older guys pick up on it right away and help pass it onto my younger guys.
Hope this helps you some and other guys will get on here and post some more great stuff but I do swear by these drills.
Nice post coach. You will get many different answers to this question. The fact is kids coming into a hs baseball program come in at all different levels of ability. Some come in with a good solid basic understanding of hitting mechanics. They have gotten some solid instruction and have a good base to work with. Some come in that have been taught some very bad hitting mechanics. Some come in with absolutely no understanding of solid hitting mechanics.
Add in the fact that every player is different and every player has a certain amount of God given talent to hit. The easiest approach is to teach all of your hitters at the same level and basically clone your hitters. "We will hit like this in our program." This approach helps you as far as time , helps the guys that are not as talented , helps the guys that are behind. But it can hinder those that are not. So I teach on an individual basis. I look at each kids swing , approach , current ability and work from there. So kids need to widen up , some kids need to learn open their stance a bit , some need to close it a bit , etc etc.
I teach absolutes in hitting and then go from there. There are absolutes in hitting. Those absolutes are the things that "Every" hitter must do to have success at the plate. Once you have instilled those absolutes into a hitters approach and swing process at the plate you can work from there. In order to be a good hitter the player must want to put the work in to develop the skills needed to be a good hitter. He must be willing to make adjustments. And he must be willing to be coached.
The only way I could answer your question exactly is to see the hitter swing , hit against live pitching and evaluate where he currently is at. Then I could tell you how I teach hitting.
Add in the fact that every player is different and every player has a certain amount of God given talent to hit. The easiest approach is to teach all of your hitters at the same level and basically clone your hitters. "We will hit like this in our program." This approach helps you as far as time , helps the guys that are not as talented , helps the guys that are behind. But it can hinder those that are not. So I teach on an individual basis. I look at each kids swing , approach , current ability and work from there. So kids need to widen up , some kids need to learn open their stance a bit , some need to close it a bit , etc etc.
I teach absolutes in hitting and then go from there. There are absolutes in hitting. Those absolutes are the things that "Every" hitter must do to have success at the plate. Once you have instilled those absolutes into a hitters approach and swing process at the plate you can work from there. In order to be a good hitter the player must want to put the work in to develop the skills needed to be a good hitter. He must be willing to make adjustments. And he must be willing to be coached.
The only way I could answer your question exactly is to see the hitter swing , hit against live pitching and evaluate where he currently is at. Then I could tell you how I teach hitting.
Thanks for the responses. We are from rural area with poor rec dept. 99% of my kids come in with terrible bat drag. 10% Maybe have an idea about hitting or the game in general. Bat drag is really killing us. I am a big believer in seeing it out of the hand alot. We also do some drill work (Turtle Thomas stuff, tee work, John Cohen stuff), take BP on the field most every day. I am limited to helping the players from mid July til december because I coach football, which hurts us. I guess since my major flaw is bat drag and I cannot come up with the right cues to help and being limited with my time, and kids really struggling with the time aspect of rebuilding their swing. What or how would you deal with the particular program problem: short and long term.
By the way thanks again for the responses, love to here from the guys that do it for a living.
By the way thanks again for the responses, love to here from the guys that do it for a living.
the funny thing about hitting is that if there was one way to do it everybody would look the same. In my years of coaching I found out that if it aint broke dont fix it. some of those that teach hitting pitching etc etc let their ego get in the way sometimes. Believe it or not I was once at a clinic that Ted Williams gave a talk about hitting. later that day I heard coaches talking about different things he said. One said Williams did not know what he was talking about. What do they say stick around long enough you will hear and see everything.
What's bat drag?
Totally agree with you guys on if it ain't broke don't fix it. Just teach some basics and tinker from there on.
I agree to a certain extent but I will tinker with a player who is having a great deal of success at the hs level if I believe it will help him at the next level. If he is a player that I believe can play at the next level. Some hs hitters who are very strong and have some good things going for them will get away with some flaws in their swing at the hs level and have great success. But that same swing will not allow them to have alot of success when they start seeing much better pitching on a consistent basis.
Most of the time its about getting shorter the ball , seeing the ball deeper , working opposite field more , etc. Minor adjustments that I feel will help them become a better hitter in college basically. For some if I can just get them to put the ball in play and give us a chance that is a huge success story. The ability of players at the hs level can range from outstanding to very bad. Sometimes the top hitters on the team are at a level way above the average hitters on your team. If you taught them all the same it would be the same as teaching every student regardless of grade the same subject matter. The basics of hitting mechanics , the absolutes in hitting go for everyone. The fine tuning is going to depend on the level of the hitter your dealing with. JMHO
Most of the time its about getting shorter the ball , seeing the ball deeper , working opposite field more , etc. Minor adjustments that I feel will help them become a better hitter in college basically. For some if I can just get them to put the ball in play and give us a chance that is a huge success story. The ability of players at the hs level can range from outstanding to very bad. Sometimes the top hitters on the team are at a level way above the average hitters on your team. If you taught them all the same it would be the same as teaching every student regardless of grade the same subject matter. The basics of hitting mechanics , the absolutes in hitting go for everyone. The fine tuning is going to depend on the level of the hitter your dealing with. JMHO
quote:Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
What's bat drag?
I believe it is a slow long swing but this is because the back elbow gets in front of the hands at the beginning of swing. Usually has a hump in it. Has to make contact way out front
"- hit the chair then you have dropped your hands, bat head or back side is collapsing too far."
Take a look at MLB hitters in slo-mo and see if the bat head drops below the hands. Ex. Pujols
Try moving the chair back toward the back leg.
Take a look at MLB hitters in slo-mo and see if the bat head drops below the hands. Ex. Pujols
Try moving the chair back toward the back leg.
Do you know the drill I'm describing? Looking at Pujols swing and others on that site I don't think the chair would be in the way. This drill is very difficult to describe because where you put the chair depends on how big it is and many other factors. Plus I don't think the chair drill would truly benefit a MLB hitter or college hitter. It's more of a tool for those who have very little experience in hitting to help develop a swing path.
coach,
I've used your "chair drill" with a few of my freshman and even sophomores.
I actually use a rubber tee (Lot more forgiving). I use this for guys who drop their bat head and constantly pop the ball up or completely miss.
What I've found is they rarely actually hit the tee. Just by knowing that its there, the swing is so much more level. I do this with soft toss and underhand throwing.
I've used your "chair drill" with a few of my freshman and even sophomores.
I actually use a rubber tee (Lot more forgiving). I use this for guys who drop their bat head and constantly pop the ball up or completely miss.
What I've found is they rarely actually hit the tee. Just by knowing that its there, the swing is so much more level. I do this with soft toss and underhand throwing.
Yea i know the drill. I do use the drill. What about any problems with solutions that you guys often see and have to fix with your underclassmen
Insider Bat works well with keeping hands inside...exposed flaws in premature rolling of wrists and "casting".
Also use the "Top hand Open" drill with dry cuts. Got it from Charlie Lau. Again, works to make sure the palms are up/down and wrist do not roll until well after contact.
Also use the "Top hand Open" drill with dry cuts. Got it from Charlie Lau. Again, works to make sure the palms are up/down and wrist do not roll until well after contact.
Check out the Impactbat That Mike Epstein endorsed. Teaches kids how to hit the ball square. It gives you instant feedback if you roll the wrists too soon. Jake Epstein said "It is simple and it works"
i found a great hitting dvd. hitting mechanics and drills. britt bonneau from abilene christian university. we are going to implement his drill program this year. its really good and simple to understand.
thanks coach I will give it a look
What is the "top hand open" drill?
Guys, this might be beating a deadhorse, but if you truly want to know how to teach hitting and help out your kids the most, sign up at hittingillustrated.com
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I have used it for a couple of years and it has been the best thing for my hitters! You can change them overnight, but I have helped improve kids pretty quickly. It depends on the kid. Give it a try and if you want me to give you more specifics feel free to e-mail me or PM me. It is good stuff!!!
nolanryan34@att.net
free for 15 days
I have used it for a couple of years and it has been the best thing for my hitters! You can change them overnight, but I have helped improve kids pretty quickly. It depends on the kid. Give it a try and if you want me to give you more specifics feel free to e-mail me or PM me. It is good stuff!!!
nolanryan34@att.net
danocaster,
Just saw your post.
Lau used top hand open drill for those kids who were wrongly taught to hurry and roll over their wrist.
You just hold bat with both hands, bottom hand gripped, but leave your top hand open. Take several swings and it reinterates not rolling the wrists over.
Just saw your post.
Lau used top hand open drill for those kids who were wrongly taught to hurry and roll over their wrist.
You just hold bat with both hands, bottom hand gripped, but leave your top hand open. Take several swings and it reinterates not rolling the wrists over.
Throughout my years of coaching the main issue I see over and over with kids is that they start the swing too early and end up slowing the bat down to wait for the ball. We really spend a lot of time working at letting the ball get very deep on us. We try to jam ourselves in practice and the kids are amazed at the amount of time they can wait before they commit to the swing without getting jammed. Our batspeed increases and so does our hitting to all fields. We like to use the term "hit it between your feet."
quote:Originally posted by patriots1980:
I guess since my major flaw is bat drag and I cannot come up with the right cues to help and being limited with my time, and kids really struggling with the time aspect of rebuilding their swing. What or how would you deal with the particular program problem: short and long term.
Tilt. It's hard to "bat drag" if you tilt.
Their shoulders are likely just twisting straight around.
