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How many???

B BBB0810+ posts
I feel the pain of alot of parents on here talking about academics. How many players have you guys encountered that are/were great players, but fall short in the class room. Is this where we get the expression "Dumb Jocks". I had a guidance councelor at a high school tell me that alot of these students were gifted in sports because they needed to be good at something. Some of them had slight learning disabilities (ADA/ADHD/Dyslexia) and while the class room was a constant struggle to them being on the field was where they became achievers. Their learning problems made them stronger They are not less intelligent, they just learned in a different fashion. Most of them would be higher achievers as adults due to the continous fight thru high school. I have seen a number of players in this situation and it is so discouraging. How many could have played at the next level, but was stranded due to this?
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TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Interesting thought for discussion.

When son was in HS there was a pitcher on the team, who was one of the better pitchers in our area, his first year in HS he was unable to play due to ineligibility. He already had repeated one year in grade school. I understand that on numerous occassions it was pointed out by teachers that there was a learning problem, but parents refused to accept it, with excuses he was immature, he only cared about baseball, etc. I do beleive that he eventually went to another school where had smaller classes, his problems addressed not sure if he ever made it passed HS.

I do not beleive that this was a problem of someone slipping through the cracks, but rather parents thinking that someday his talent would take him farther than grades. What took place in the classroom wasn't all that important. What takes place in the classroom is a signal that their might be learning issues.

Many students of today, for some reason or another seem to have a variety of learning disabilities, but that does not mean that they cannot learn. They just need to be taught how to learn, as you say, in a different way. It's no surprise to any of us that pro atheletes have diabilities (remember the story of the pro football player who couldn't read). So, without a doubt one can play at the next level, and sometimes get away with it.

However, sports have become so competitive that I really feel that eventually, a player with unchecked disability will eventually stop excelling in the field as well. Those players who excelled in LL suddenly have trouble at the HS level, then suddenly have trouble at the next level. It does eventually begin to show on the field, when everyone catches up to each other.

Parents need to take responsibility when an educator points out to them that their child is having trouble in the classroom. Sometimes it is laziness, immaturity, lack of reponsibility but in many cases it can be a learning disability. As a former teacher of children with disabilities, this doesn't happen overnight, but there are visible signs that should be addressed sooner than later. They should be as attentive to their child's performance in the classroom as they are on the field.
Much of the learning that takes place in grades K-8 are basic skills. Many parents (not saying those reading here) these days are not too attentive or care what goes on in teh classroom, having to deal with their own issues day to day. I have heard parents say, how can he have a learning disability in the classroom when he excels in sports, or whatever the child's interest is. Most of the time they think that the child will "outgrow" much and then all of a sudden in HS they can't get through math or english class. I had a young student that was an incredible artist, yet he couldn't add 2 + 2.
If your child is having trouble learning how to read, how to compute simple math problems, or not remembering things that are everyday routine, make sure it's addressed. This will avoid problems later on, and those identified with special needs do have concessions made for them. In other words, don't wait until it is too late.
Last edited by TPM
MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
BBB08,

I have experienced this first-hand and I believe it is very true:

"Some of them had slight learning disabilities (ADA/ADHD/Dyslexia) and while the class room was a constant struggle to them being on the field was where they became achievers. Their learning problems made them stronger They are not less intelligent, they just learned in a different fashion."

Some of my smartest relatives have ADD. It affected each of them differently throughout elementary school, HS and college.

Let's see, counting them up: I have 6 close relatives diagnosed with ADD / ADHD. Every single one of them tests well above average in intelligence. At least 3 of the 6 test at the genius IQ level. Each of them has at least one sibling who does not have ADD and is also bright. Out of the six ADD relatives, all have attended college, two of them so far have completed college degrees (one with a Master's degree) and are successful at professional jobs. Of the 6, three excelled in sports, at least thru the HS level.

Because of this family history, it bothers me sometimes when people (teachers, parents, even members of our website) assume that all students who don't have an A- average or above just aren't trying hard enough. Sometimes for a teenager with a learning "difference", simply managing to graduate from HS with a C+ average is an achievement. These same students may eventually earn a college degree, assisted by the motivation of being able to play a sport that they love at the college level. And these same students may become successful entrepreneurs, artists, teachers, or even professional baseball players! Smile

Julie
Last edited by MN-Mom
redsox8191redsox8191500+ posts
This is a subject that could affect my son as he gets older. He is an 8th grader and is coded with ADD. He struggles mightly with Math and english (penmenship and spelling) especially. He is a left handed pitcher and does well on the field.

I worry that if he were to continue to improve on the field and get to the point where colleges would be interested that his grades and test scores (lousy at taking tests) would possibly rule him out of many programs.

What options do struggling students have to continue their baseball careers and get an education? Junior colleges an option or do grades really count there too? Do some D1, DII programs have lesser requirements then others?
B BBB0810+ posts
Great Question Redsox8191. I am wondering the same thing! I was told that with some learning disabilities (dyslexia) that the colleges offer disability scholorships as long as a certain GPA is maintained thru college. Anyone have any knowledge about this. Does this help a baseball player if he has the talent and the school does not have to cover ath. scholorship to be considered to make the team. Is every player on a D1 roster graduating with a 3.0 or better. IS JUCO the only consideration for these players? Are there any exceptions?????
OzoneOzone500+ posts
TR is on the money with that. Some kids can take the SAT's verbally and untimed depending on the disability. I recently helped a kid get into a nice 4 year school where he plays baseball and is excelling due to the schools programs. I found some D3 and NAIA's are more receptive since the coaches don't have the new APR standards over their heads.
CatchingTheHeatCatchingTheHeat10+ posts
And if a student has a documented IEP or 504 Plan, there are other allowances that they are entitled to. I took the SAT untimed also, and I have heard from schools that if the first initial application is denied, you have the right to appeal and provide documentation at that point. I am just continuing to work on and off the field to show my commitment. Kids know when they don't work to par with others, but if they give up or stop believing in themselves, then it is over. Work hard, be consistent, stay true and good things will come to you.
L LHPMom2012100+ posts
My son doesn't have a learning disability, but he does have an extreme case of right-brainedness. He works very hard but has trouble taking tests... he just sees too many options and can't tell which answers are right. It's frustrating to hear coaches talk about working hard in order to get good grades, because one doesn't necessarily lead to another. If so, he'd be getting straight As every quarter -- as it is, he gets mostly Bs with an occasional C, and it already looks like his dream schools are out of reach.

LHPMom
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
LHPmom,
Your son is young, don't make excuses for him this early, and there is nothing wrong with B's and an occassional C.
What you are stating is not unusual, because young students entering HS are never "taught" how to take tests.
You might want to look into one of the learning centers to see what areas he needs to work on to improve tests scores. This also becomes very helpful later on when taking ACT/SAT and later in college.
L Lane4Member
If your child has been diagnosed with ADD get with the school and make sure he has a 504 plan or IEP. This will give them extended time of test and assignments. They can get special notifications on the SAT. If they can play at the next level don't let a learning disability hold them back they can make it. After a bad freshman and sophomore year our son is back on track and looking forward to college.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Being a player does not have to enter into it---look at the schools of interest and see if they have a curriculum for learning disabled kids---I know Marist has an excellent one which is difficult to gain entry to

As noted above, with all the proper paperwork in place, a student can get admitted with grades below the required at many schools
ILVBBILVBB1,000+ posts
My advice to parents is if you can not explain why they are not doing well in school or they are not connecting with other kids have them tested for a learning difference.

We knew with our youngest that he was dyslexic very early. Testing confirmed it and he has had the help to overcome his learing diffence.

My eldest was always pretty bright and did well until his senior year in HS. His grades slipped a little (we thought it was senioritis). However he struggled the first two years in college before we had him tested. Once we knew what the problem was he was able to get the help he needed to overcome his difference.

If we had known earlier it may have made a big difference for my eldest. If you don't know what is making them tick; get them tested.
T $tinky1,000+ posts

This thread hits pretty close to home with me.  My son was diagnosed with ADD.  He struggles in school.  He tries hard, but unfortunately based on grades he isn't a very good student.  He's only a 2023.  This past year as he began to fall behind even further he got a 504 with accommodations in Math and English.  I know this thread is pretty old, so I wanted to see if anyone else had experience in this area that was more current. 

I'm not saying he's even good enough to play college ball.  He's a good player now, but that's still a long ways off.  I'd just hate for him to continue to excel in baseball and his grades be the factor that keeps him from playing past hs. 

 

  

M mamabb0304

ADD/ ADHD (Old terminology) is a learning disability if they are expected to learn the same as the other children in the classroom. Accommodations should be made to level the classroom playing field. Our son's high school needed a constant reminder that the accommodations were not optional.  Advocate for your child, or hire an advisor. 

Our advisor stated a pretty poignant observation in my observation.  "If a child showed up at school in a wheelchair, we would not expect the child to try harder to walk up these steps."

 

keewartkeewart10,000+ posts

I figured early on that my baseball playing son was a Kinesthetic learner.  You usually hear only about auditory learning and visual learning. In 1st grade, I even asked the teacher if he could stand to do his work, or do the work with a small ball in his hand.   You can guess the answer to those questions.  

If your son is a good ball player, and is not a top performer in the classroom, there is still a place for him.   Stress study skills now.  He will need to carry them with him to college.

Last edited by keewart
T $tinky1,000+ posts
mamabb0304 posted:

ADD/ ADHD (Old terminology) is a learning disability if they are expected to learn the same as the other children in the classroom. Accommodations should be made to level the classroom playing field. Our son's high school needed a constant reminder that the accommodations were not optional.  Advocate for your child, or hire an advisor. 

Our advisor stated a pretty poignant observation in my observation.  "If a child showed up at school in a wheelchair, we would not expect the child to try harder to walk up these steps."

 

We've had to really stay on top of his teachers about his accommodations.  Its like we have to literally remind them weekly or they just ignore it.  Its so frustrating because I want him to just feel normal at school, and he hates leaving his class to go take tests etc.  He already refers to himself as dumb and just has literally no confidence with a lot of classroom tasks.  The teachers not accommodating, being called out and then having to go back only calls more attention to his situation.   

I'm not familiar with the term advisor in this setting?  I'm going to look into that.  We'd obviously do anything under the sun to help him.  Perhaps that's an option for us.  

  

T $tinky1,000+ posts
RJM posted:

JuCo is an option. Often they have arrangements with four year schools guaranteeing acceptance with a determined gpa. Some four year schools have special student two year programs with the guarantee to continue by meeting a required gpa.

Thanks Jett,  we are trying to be real about it.  Juco would be great for him.  In all honesty he's gonna have to work (I"m talking baseball not academics now) to play juco ball.  Playing above that level would imo be a stretch.  Obviously there's still a lot of time between now and college.  I am trying to be as realistic as possible.  

S Shoveit4Ks10,000+ posts
$tinky posted:
mamabb0304 posted:

ADD/ ADHD (Old terminology) is a learning disability if they are expected to learn the same as the other children in the classroom. Accommodations should be made to level the classroom playing field. Our son's high school needed a constant reminder that the accommodations were not optional.  Advocate for your child, or hire an advisor. 

Our advisor stated a pretty poignant observation in my observation.  "If a child showed up at school in a wheelchair, we would not expect the child to try harder to walk up these steps."

 

We've had to really stay on top of his teachers about his accommodations.  Its like we have to literally remind them weekly or they just ignore it.  Its so frustrating because I want him to just feel normal at school, and he hates leaving his class to go take tests etc.  He already refers to himself as dumb and just has literally no confidence with a lot of classroom tasks.  The teachers not accommodating, being called out and then having to go back only calls more attention to his situation.   

I'm not familiar with the term advisor in this setting?  I'm going to look into that.  We'd obviously do anything under the sun to help him.  Perhaps that's an option for us.  

  

Wife is an AP now, but longtime SPED teacher, department chair, SSA and overall rockstar with all kids who require accommodations. Believe me, i cannot stand the parents over the years who tried to game the system, were litigious on non-issues (IE; parents blaming school for their problems) and the generally lazy ones who pawn their kids off and expect miracles but i would recommend you get with the SPED department chair of you school. If that doesn't achieve the results you want, get with the county office. These teachers have to keep detailed records and stick to the program so the kids can perform and learn the content and their managers are accountable for every kid.  Good luck.

B Baseballmom3201500+ posts

Awesome that your wife cares and is following the law. There are just as many educators who do not. If a parent gets to he point of suing a school or getting lawyers involved, I’m sure it would not be because they have nothing else to do.

Accommodations in the classroom for kids with disabilities are the law. The only way to assert your child’s  rights under the law is to use legal avenues. End of story. 

D d-mac10,000+ posts
mamabb0304 posted:

ADD/ ADHD (Old terminology) is a learning disability if they are expected to learn the same as the other children in the classroom. Accommodations should be made to level the classroom playing field. Our son's high school needed a constant reminder that the accommodations were not optional.  Advocate for your child, or hire an advisor. 

Our advisor stated a pretty poignant observation in my observation.  "If a child showed up at school in a wheelchair, we would not expect the child to try harder to walk up these steps."

 

This is great advice and I love the last line.  Advocate for your child and if the school isn't holding up their end just use the word attorney and watch how fast things get fixed. 

dad2twinsdad2twins1,000+ posts

I feel your pain on this subject. I have one son that has a 504 because he has hydrocephalus and has had 9 brain surgeries. He is supposed to get a copy of the notes from the teacher because he has problems with eye tracking and trying to copy notes from the projector to his paper is a disaster. He is pulled out of class to have his test read to him also. The teachers think since he looks and acts normal that he is just trying to be lazy but if they only really knew what he has gone through they might change their tune. They see a very athletic kid who they think is just trying to play the system. We are lucky because his twin brother takes the same classes so when they study he will read out loud so the other one can listen because he is an auditory learner. 

I don't think a kid trying to play the system would be taking calculus, chemistry and some online college classes his junior year,  all this while keeping a 3.5. They both took the ACT and he wanted to take it with no help like extra time or being read and he did not do good at all. His brother did good but he felt discouraged and like a failure because of course he has his sights set high and knows he needs a good score. I just wish the teachers could understand the issues that some of these kids have. We had one teacher call him ED as in special ed because he had to leave to go take a test. She forgot his brother was sitting in class when she did that, needless to say she now teaches an elementary class.

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