How many games have your sons played?

quote:

Originally posted by brod:
Some upperclassmen convinced him they had to wear their Halloween costumes out to practice yesterday. He fell for it. Coach yelled at him and he quickly changed.

OYG!

Hopefully it was Shine, I would not want to get on the bad side of Gillespie nor Silva!

brod- glad to hear all is ok. As for the Halloween costume - too funny - what did he show up as?

Memories.....

homerun,
Our players got August through October off but were doing some fairly unstructured throwing during conditioning once school started. Now that fall ball is starting it will be every weekend until the season starts. There really aren't a lot of innings, just a couple innings a week for each pitcher so that is a very reasonable amount of pitching. I'd just like more of an opportunity for a structured throwing program to build arm strength during fall and then to get ready for the season during winter as our season starts before spring. Then again, that's more because that is what my son needs at the moment after a lot of down time due to injuries over the last couple years rather than a general need for all the players.

Our coach tends to be fairly negative about players attending a showcase instead of playing for the fall ball team that weekend, so all he'll be able to do over the next few months is attend a couple college holiday camps, which is probably enough through the end of his junior season. We were hoping he'd be able to do the CA underclass in January but that probably won't happen and unless he can add a few mph to his fastball between now and then there probably wouldn't be any great advantage in attending that one anyways. Between his junior and senior seasons we'll push the issue a bit more if he looks like he's playing well enough for the showcases to make a difference. Although the coach tends to be negative about missing fall ball games for showcases, he will work with the players on a case by case basis as long as it doesn't result in having too few pitchers available for a game. More often than not it is just a matter of making the effort to ask rather than blowing the team off and telling him at the last minute.

I have two boys that are baseball brothers

11 year old son

10 LL-43 GAMES TRAVELBALL 30 GAMES 73 TOTAL
9 LL 30 GAMES TB 12 GAMES 42 TOT.
8 LL 25 GAMES

7 year old son

7 LL 30 GAMES

I don't know for the past years. This year I'd estimate about:

45 games w/#1 team
25 games w/#2 team
and
22 games since school started with new team w/guaranteed 4 this weekend in tournament. I hope that this is the last weekend for a while. She has played every weekend since school has started.

45+25+26 = 96 (If they advance then more.)

He went as a "mariachi." Wish I had a picture...

CaDad: Think long-term - Perhaps your son's position on the team is secure enough and your relationship with the coach strong enough so that you could come to an agreement about the conditioning he will need so he will be ready for the season. Most coaches understand that pitchers are different from other players. And you know the rule of thumb on showcases - never take him unless he is in top shape.

I am only partway through this journey as my son is a HS freshman this year, but I wonder about some of the numbers I see regarding games played. Don't kids just need to be kids to develop a proper perspective on life? Shouldn't they play other sports, particularly at these young ages?

For what it is worth I have always taken a conservative approach with my son regarding playing too many games (innings pitched) and travel ball too early. Through 12U he played league ball and all-stars, which meant he played around 30 league games and 10ish all-star games. Some years he played fall ball and some not, which added another 10 or so.

When HE got serious I made sure he got the best coaching I could find in the area. He played travel ball leading up to High School and with the High School team last summer. Don't know exactly but guess that he played a max of 50-60 games.

I have no idea how far he can go in baseball and frankly don't care. I am more concerned about his education and being responsable at each stage of his life. I have also tried to have him look at the step right in front of him at a particular time. For league ball - try to be the best you can be and make the all-star team. In High School make the team 1st, (he has) and now find out what he has to do to make the Varsity team as soon as he can. (Probably next year) He has said he wants to play D1 college ball so that is what he is working towards now.

With my limited experience I have found that he improved more (dramatically) with more practice and good coaching then when he was playing in a bunch of tournaments. Don't get me wrong it was important to play against some of the best kids in his age group, so he could see how he stood against the best, but I wonder about 100 plus games per year at ANY age....particularly for pitchers.

Again my humble opinion based on my experience - I have to wonder why some parents think their kids need to play so many games and play travel ball before 12.

BOF, I can't speak for any others and realize that my kid has played a lot. She pitched tonight to get her work in as she does every night and we didn't hit because I wanted her to come home to rest up for the tournament tomorrow. She's mad as heck at me because we didn't hit. I've told MNMom as well as a couple of others, at times my kid is obsessed. She talked all the way home about the games tomorrow. how she needed to hit in order to be ready and who she hopes she gets to pitch against. I get scared sometimes because along with that will be all of the other things that games bring. However, as long as she wants to, I'll take her anywhere to play. When she says she's done, she's done.

BOF - you raise very interesting points. I am not sure people are in a position to judge however about how other parents raised their kids.

My son's games were on the lower end in this thread and it has crossed my mind more than once what type of player he might be right now with 1000 or more extra at bats under his belt.

The only thing that held him back from playing more games was the weather. I know he would have been the type of kid to play at the upper end of games mentioned in this thread and I would have been the type of parent that supported it. It's possible that my son's career has been extended however since he had less wear and tear growing up. I think each person can look at a situation (i.e., more or less games) and see the advantages or disadvantages depending on your perspective.

Probably over 400 in the 4 seasons leading into the first college Fall season.

And at least 25% of them in awful weather

BOF,
I agree with CD, you have brought forward a very appropriate and different view. I think there are about as many answers as their are parents.
In my view, baseball is a sport where you do improve by repetition. But I think the extent and overall baseball importance of the improvement related to repetition is also a factor of physical development.
There is little doubt that a 12 year old who plays 100 games with good coaching will play that level of game much better than the player with 30 games and similar coaching. But, for boys, I don't think it translates in any way to the way either will play the game on the regulation field when they are 16/17.
My view is that repetition and games played becomes a factor depending on the physical development of the player. If you have someone who is 6'2" as a sophomore as opposed to a player who is still growing and maturing at that same age, reps will help the one 6'2" far more, in a longer term baseball sense than the one who is 5'6".
In summary, I believe reps and games played make a difference in young men when they are relatively close to being physically developed. That means when they can weight train and physically condition and combine that with baseball reps. At that point, games played and competition make a huge difference in continuing to improve and the level at which you ultimately play the game.
Our son played on the very low end of the numbers listed here, in part because he was also a football player and not as developed until he was 16/17.
He got to play in high school championships in both sports, had a very good college career and has done well in minor league ball.
For him at least, the reps and games played after he was 17 made the difference. The games played before that gave him hints he had some talent and also helped him with his passion to complete and play baseball.
But every situation is different, and the view is much easier from those seats looking back on where your son has been rather than when you are trying to see where he is headed.

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
BOF - you raise very interesting points. I am not sure people are in a position to judge however about how other parents raised their kids.

I agree.

If someone is playing lots of baseball when they are young, they should be doing so because they enjoy it, enjoy the competition. Very seldom do most young players emerge as stars and if so it ususlly comes later.
I am amazed at how many young games are played in northern climates. My son played very little compared to many here, but he also played other sports as well. Not until he reached the end of his freshman year did he tell us he wanted to play D1 ball. He did tell us for years he wanted to be a baseball player, but solid interest in college ball came in HS.

As a pitcher I do not think he would have gotten better throwing more innings, as hitters do hitting the ball. So that's a tough call. I don't really feel it's how many games you play when younger, you can't hide ability and talent, the right people will recognize it and the opportunities will come.

quote:

Originally posted by brod:
Some upperclassmen convinced him they had to wear their Halloween costumes out to practice yesterday. He fell for it. Coach yelled at him and he quickly changed.

That is hilarious!

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
BOF,
My view is that repetition and games played becomes a factor depending on the physical development of the player. If you have someone who is 6'2" as a sophomore as opposed to a player who is still growing and maturing at that same age, reps will help the one 6'2" far more, in a longer term baseball sense than the one who is 5'6".
In summary, I believe reps and games played make a difference in young men when they are relatively close to being physically developed. That means when they can weight train and physically condition and combine that with baseball reps. At that point, games played and competition make a huge difference in continuing to improve and the level at which you ultimately play the game.

I think this right on the spot. In looking back at my son's experience I think I would have kept him in league ball through HS. (he played league through 12U, then travel) If I took the money (and time) spent on travel and put that into professional coaching and more personal one-on-one attention he would be just as good or maybe better than he is now. I realise that this however may or may not be the case for another kid or family.

Coach John Wooden said that "practice does not make perfect, it makes permanent" and baseball is a very technique specfic sport so I think the time spent in making sure the technigue is proper is better than running around the country playing travel ball at younger ages. For example: A bucket of balls costs $100, a good Jugs T $100, a net to hit into another $100, and good fungo $50. So for less than the cost of one away tournament a basball familiy can have the tools necessary to get 100 swings in per night at home, and say 2X per week can get 500 ground balls. With some professional instruction on top of this I think is the perfect scenario, at least for even the most serious younger kids. League play plus All-Stars and maybe a short fall ball with the above would make the better athlete a VERY good baseball player by the time he gets to HS. It would also leave more time for other sports which may provide a more balanced outlook on baseball when (if) he gets more seious.

The only reason I am writing this is for those parents of younger kids who are thinking that they need to get their kids into travel ball to compete......well you don't, and for those younger than 12U - I would say that you are waisting your time and money, and maybe in the process loosing perspective. There are other ways to acheive the same objective. Again this is only my opinion, but I wished I would have found this web site 3 years ago. (Here's an idea start a parallel one called "YouthBaseballweb".....)

BOF, very good points but I'm going to take issue with a few of them.

1) League play through high school. This might not get the exposure the player needs and the dilluted talent level would ensure he'd have plenty of reps against poor competition. Not a good scenario.

2) Skipping tournaments/games for more practice. To some degree this is correct but a player who has played a lot of games against the best competition will develop a level of confidence that the player who merely practices will lack.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
BOF, very good points but I'm going to take issue with a few of them.

1) League play through high school. This might not get the exposure the player needs and the dilluted talent level would ensure he'd have plenty of reps against poor competition. Not a good scenario.

2) Skipping tournaments/games for more practice. To some degree this is correct but a player who has played a lot of games against the best competition will develop a level of confidence that the player who merely practices will lack.

You are correct on the competition component, so in some cases it would depend on the level of the league and how much all-star play a player gets. I do like the mental aspect of tournaments since one game may mean a lot, and the only way to get this experience is to play them. My point is that there are other ways to get the competition without the travel. Playing up is also an option.

In my son's case he was able to play with the HS team 1-1/2 years in advance of HS. He played with the fall-ball team between 7/8th grade, and with them this summer on a 16U team (he was 14U)so he was playing up and got the benefit of the competition without the travel. Granted this will not work for all kids since he was a young bloomer and had the size to compete.

Many leagues have off league season "travel" teams also so kids can get the additional exposure with out doing travel 100% of the time.

Again I am just trying to point out that, particularly at young ages (less than 12U), that there are other options and that a kid does not have to play travel ball to get the necessary skills to compete at HS. As others have said on this site that cream tends to rise once things even out after puberty, so parents should not get too worked up about having to play travel ball so their son can compete.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Again I am just trying to point out that, particularly at young ages (less than 12U), that there are other options and that a kid does not have to play travel ball to get the necessary skills to compete at HS. As others have said on this site that cream tends to rise once things even out after puberty, so parents should not get too worked up about having to play travel ball so their son can compete.

I don't believe kids can acquire the skills to compete in high school until they are big and strong enough to practice the skills on a full size field. Playing on the small field is good for learning basic fundamentals, learning to compete and building a passion for the game which doesn't take 75-100 games.

Does anyone feel it's important to expose their kids to more than organized sports? It can't be done of the kids are always in tournaments.

Brod,
I don't think the relationship is that good unfortunately and I'm not going to suggest that my son do anything significantly different from the other pitchers during practice in any case. On the other hand, we had my son throw for velocity for the first time in a couple years over the weekend and he hit 85 mph on a JUGs. He's still working well below that throwing for location but it gives one hope that his working velocity and max velocity could pick up enough between now and mid-January that there'd be some value added in attending a showcase. Probably not enough value added to miss a fall ball game and make the coach angry though. I think our focus will be the more college oriented stuff like Stanford and the Headfirst camps next summer. In the meantime, I think he'll get some value out of the Thanksgiving and Xmas college camps. He mostly just needs to learn to play the showcase game of throwing hard often enough to show up on the gun while still doing enough pitching to be effective. If I get a chance to have him throw a pen for me later in the week we'll work on trying to get his working velocity up a couple mph from where it seems to be now. I think he can probably do that without sacrificing any command at this point, although I'll have to see what he's throwing in games as that is typically a couple mph faster than what he throws for location during pens.

quote:

On the other hand, we had my son throw for velocity for the first time in a couple years over the weekend and he hit 85 mph on a JUGs.

That sounds pretty encouraging

ClevelandDad,
Don't want to overplay the significance as he threw about a dozen pitches for velocity and only one was 85 with one at 83 and one at 84. He's not used to throwing from a windup and didn't break 81 on his 4 or 5 pitches from a windup. When he was working on location he was only 77,78 on most of the pitches and although the location and movement was good I think he should be working about 80,81 for now.

But you're right, it was encouraging and he got a kick out of hitting 85 for the first time, especially as dad had told him it was likely to be a while before he hit that number. Of course, now he's thinking about 90 while I'm thinking about being able to dial up 84 or 85 consistently when needed as a goal. i.e, throwing 8 or 9 of a dozen pitches at 84 or 85. I'd be thrilled if he could do that by Thanksgiving weekend, as that would probably be enough for a junior to generate some mild interest from colleges at this point in time.

He's a rising Junior? 85 max Jugs (working 82-83) is just where he needs to be. Of course, you know about my older boy but I also have a rising Junior RHP son who is a late bloomer. He only throws about 78-79 but with clean mechanics. He's also a lot bigger than his lefty brother.. I think he has a chance to surprise but it won't be the D1 route his brother is going it'll be the J.C. route if it happens.

..the moral of the story is this: If the desire and work ethic are there, there is a place for nearly every ballplayer. Just keep believing. And don't push CADad Jr. too hard.

quote:

Originally posted by brod:
Some upperclassmen convinced him they had to wear their Halloween costumes out to practice yesterday. He fell for it. Coach yelled at him and he quickly changed.

He went as a "mariachi." Wish I had a picture...

brod,

I guess by now you've seen this thread which leads to UCI pictures here .