how much velo. is lost when using slide step?

It should be minimal if at all. My son actually throws harder out of the slide step because he's really "loaded up" on the back side and uses his legs a little more...

Typical is 1 maybe 2 MPH.

I don't think there's any concrete information on it. I tend to agree with BOF but I really don't know if that is more just because it is different from what pitchers are used to doing or not.

I think each pitcher who decides they want to try a slide step has to see what it does to their velocity and control on an individual basis.

I don't think there is anything lost. If anything, it's higher. Bum, Jr., when starting in the summer, actually threw slower from the windup than when using the slide step (stretch).

The reason? With no runners on base a pitcher needs to get into a rythym (cruising mode) and pitching becomes more about timing and mis-timing. With runners on base, a pitcher needs to get more selective, so it becomes imperative to locate, throw effective offspeed, and to amp up the fastball.

He was hitting low 90's in some relief situations and mid-to-upper 80's when starting. (Part of the equation is whether the pitcher is a starter or reliever so he can pace himself.)

I think whether or not a pitcher loses velocity when using the slidestep depends on how he executes the slidestep.

A pitcher achieves his maximum velocity when he performs his mechanics with proper sequencing and with good timing. For some pitchers, when using the slidestep the lower half becomes too quick for the upper half such that the upper half doesn't get the timing it needs for proper sequencing. This typically results in reduced velocity due to hips and shoulders rotating together and, therefore, reduced hip and shoulder separation which is a major contributor to velocity.

Other pitchers do something to slow the lower half down and buy more time for the upper half. A common tactic is to take the front knee back towards 2B as they start to shift their weight forward. This makes the lower half take more time which buys time for the upper half. They get more hip and shoulder separation and better maintain their velocity.

Typical is 1 maybe 2 MPH.

Additional comments:

I have never measured it, just going by what a AAA pitcher who my son takes some lessons from on what they typically see in pro ball. He said the hardest pitch to throw consistently is a change from the stretch as you are trying to do conflicting things, fast to the plate with an off speed pitch. I should also mention the numbers are for starters as a lot of relievers throw from the stretch exclusively.

As I understand it there is a difference in the quick slide step and the slower move bringing the leg up higher in the stretch position. The quick slide step may alter ones timing and rythm leading to a loss of velocity whereas the normal move from the stretch may not lead to as loss and even perhaps a gain in velocity over the windup.

So, I think that there needs to be a distinction in the mechanics of the slide-step versus the normal slower move even though both are in the stretch position before any motion happens to the plate.

My son pitches his slowest when he slide-steps and fastest when he pitches from the stretch with runners on at least 2nd base. In the middle is the windup. I have a theory here as to why this happens.

In the windup a pitcher normally has no runners on base and he is mentally placing more emphasis on throwing strikes and not velocity to blow them away (except for maybe an 0-2 or 1-2 count). When a runner gets to first however and they use a quick slide-step, they begin to place an importance on getting the ball out of their hand as quick as possible which may lead to a diminished range of total arm cocking and release motion. With a runner/runners on second and/or third this approach changes because the pitcher is no longer as concerned with keeping runners from advancing on a steal. Now the pitchers mentality is focused more on getting ahead in the count and blowing it by the batter unless he gets way behind in his count. So, for average pitch velocity I see an increase in a pitchers velocity when he pitches from the stretch with runners at least at second base.

My sons highest velocities have come when he has pitched from the stretch with a runner on second base. Son swears he throws fastest from the windup but it is an illusion. Batters swear he throws fastest from the quick slide-step but again, it is just an illusion.

There should be no difference between your slide step velocity and your stretch velocity based on good mechanics. The difference can come from the movement and control of the hips between the windup and the stretch. Young pitchers from the windup tend to take an indirect line to the plate and do not dictate their hips with quality backside drive. Rather they go through the motions and allow their body to drift. From the stretch their is mostly only one way to go but this all stems on good muscle memory and quality body control.

My son pitches primarily out of the stretch. He does occasionally mix things up with a full wind-up.

With runners on first though, he has started with this business of cocking his head randomly to different spots (RHP) - sometimes two times, sometimes four times...

When he slide-steps, his leg lift is much shorter than the stretch but, he tends to drive to the plate faster. His pitch is off by a couple fo miles an hour but, I think that is more than made up for by batters being taken off-gaurd. I can remember one sequence where he did the decoy toss to 1B, used the stretch to get a fouled off strike and then used this head-move/slide-step to get to clean strikes. It takes, .4 seconds for a ball to get to the plate. If you throw off a bat-waggler by just a bit, the velocity doesn't matter.

It is pretty effective for 1B pick-off's as well. Then again, just could be our level of hitting at this time.

College and Up usually 1 to 2 mph, high school 3 to 4 mph, and junior high to 12 years old 5 mph or more depending on skill level.

I have a question. As a kid is learning how to pitch do you start him out from the wind up or the stretch and why?

Also, what is the beginning parts of pitching should a coach teach a kid to become successful?

quote:

Originally posted by jmpbama92:
College and Up usually 1 to 2 mph, high school 3 to 4 mph, and junior high to 12 years old 5 mph or more depending on skill level.

I have a question. As a kid is learning how to pitch do you start him out from the wind up or the stretch and why?

Also, what is the beginning parts of pitching should a coach teach a kid to become successful?

I taught my son only to pitch from the stretch when he first started pitching at 9 years old. It wasn't until he was 12-13 that he went to the windup. The reason I say to teach them from the stretch first is that for one- it is less motion. Also, it is easier to teach the body to get fully sideways and have the right amount of weight in the right places. Too often with young pitchers who are taught in the windup is that they tend to rush their delivery and never get their upper body sideways to the batter in the power (high c_ock position). We had one particular kid who had a strong arm and always pirched from the windup. He was pretty decent for a few years but I kept telling him that he was cheating- rushing too much and it was costing hima lot of velocity because it was "all arm" and not much torso rotation. I tried to teach him the proper way and he just never got it. Last year was the last year he played baseball.

A pitcher first needs to learn how to throw and control his fastball. I can't stress the importance of doing this first! Throw and throw and throw until you can hit a gallon tin can almost every time from 30 feet away. Practice makes perfect and of all importance to baseball is the fact that your defense behind you cannot defend walks! Learn to grip the baseball correctly and throw it the same each time over and over and over again.

quote:

Originally posted by jmpbama92:
College and Up usually 1 to 2 mph, high school 3 to 4 mph, and junior high to 12 years old 5 mph or more depending on skill level.

I have a question. As a kid is learning how to pitch do you start him out from the wind up or the stretch and why?

Also, what is the beginning parts of pitching should a coach teach a kid to become successful?

First of all, I would not say the above quote on velocities is totally accurate. I have waited to post on this until I could gun my son going from the stretch and from the windup. He pretty much uses a slide step from the stretch. I would call it kind of a modified slide step. Rather than just sliding his front foot, he actually lifts it about 4-5 inches and goes forward. His velocity is the same from the stretch and from the windup. Tested it last night. Also, I talked to his pitching coach who works with the Red Sox organization who also said that velocity should be the same.

Here is a video of my son throwing a pitch from the windup and one from the stretch. You can see what I mean by kind of a modified slide step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csnhmyFDMBg

To answer your other question, I would start him in the stretch. This is simply because there are less movements to master. Pitching is about performing the same mechanics consistently. It is easier to do that from the stretch. Once he starts throwing from the windup, I would make it as simple as possible. Small step back, small turn, minimal hand movements. This will help him be consistent. You can see this in the video of my son's windup pitch.

Finally, to your last question, make sure your son is stepping towards the target. I have seen lots of younger kids who either step open or closed. Open will make your front shoulder fly open causing your arm to drag. Closed will make you throw across your body. My son had the open issue when he first started throwing. We used to go to a field with lines (baseball, football, s****r, doesn't matter) and play catch on the line. I would make him look down on every throw to make sure he was landing on the line. It was immediate visual feedback and gave him a real good feel about where he should be stepping. I think it helped a lot.

johnj317 says it right. You have to lead with your hips with the slide step. There are many different versions (theories) of the slide step and how to do it properly. don't step to foot strike, stride to it leading with your hips.
If your slide step throws your momentum and balance off you will lose velocity and the split second you think you save getting to the plate quicker is lost because you lack the velocity; you won't get the runner out anyway.

Great point Pitching Academy on the step to foot strike. Alot of young players do this.