doughnutman: I think I understand where you are coming from...league play is like practice games for you.
Do you not have a lot of practices/bullpen sessions beside these games and in between starts for your son?
Not to do too much navel-gazing here but, we seem to be nudging up against some other issues here:
By choosing to do this “development” over a sustained period in a game, are we:
a) disrespecting the other team
b) disrespecting the game
INs, I don’t see any way to replicate the perceived tendencies of an array of batters in a practice situation, let alone holding runners, bad counts etc. In a cage, the changeup drops or the 2-seam tails. Did it do so enough? Real batters with differences between them provide real outcomes to make adjustments.
Also, I agree that league games are different than tournaments.
By choosing to do this “development” over a sustained period in a game, are we:
a) disrespecting the other team
b) disrespecting the game
INs, I don’t see any way to replicate the perceived tendencies of an array of batters in a practice situation, let alone holding runners, bad counts etc. In a cage, the changeup drops or the 2-seam tails. Did it do so enough? Real batters with differences between them provide real outcomes to make adjustments.
Also, I agree that league games are different than tournaments.
quote:Originally posted by Doughnutman:
On the original question, my sons coach has him throw nothing but changeups during league games. They want him to work on his grips. Make the ball break in or away, take a little off for more movement and add a little for less.
"Nothing but changeups" worries me, because an effective changeup needs to be thrown with the same arm speed and motion as the fast ball. I think there is a large risk that pitching changeups exclusively (whether in the bullpen or games) will lead to a slowed down arm motion. Mixing changeups with fast balls allows the pitcher and his coaches to gauge the similarity of motion for both pitches.
notlongtilicancatchim: I don't understand what you are getting at when you were addressing me? I am unsure as to which one of my posts you were referring to and what your argument is. In practice, you work on gaining consistency. There is no substitution for live-pitching, I have never argued against that.
3fingeredglove: I agree with you. What the pitchers at Wichita State did was throw change ups from 90+ feet in order to develop their arm speed with the pitch. They do this almost every time they play catch; and almost every one of them developed a nasty change up.
3fingeredglove: I agree with you. What the pitchers at Wichita State did was throw change ups from 90+ feet in order to develop their arm speed with the pitch. They do this almost every time they play catch; and almost every one of them developed a nasty change up.
INshocker- That is absolutely the time to work on your change. The pitchers will really see the difference in contrast and trust it.
Regarding my practice at game-speed comment- Absolutely, work on tee, front-toss, eyc. My thinking (got it from a guy alot smarter than me) is that players don't practice at game-speed enough and you can have great mechanics but will not be able to appy them if they are not "on time".
Regarding my practice at game-speed comment- Absolutely, work on tee, front-toss, eyc. My thinking (got it from a guy alot smarter than me) is that players don't practice at game-speed enough and you can have great mechanics but will not be able to appy them if they are not "on time".
ncball: What drills do you do to work on game-speed? Hard, short BP? Have you ever used an iron-mike? I really liked using it when it was available to me. I could turn it up to 85 from about 54 feet. This really allowed me to make the game much slower. I agree you can have great mechanics but not be a great game hitters (there are many 5:00 hitters in the world!).
Sorry INs:
I was responding to the line “I feel that is what playing catch and throwing bullpens is for.” It was not so much an argument as a point of view that there is no “real batter” or “real situation” in a practice or bullpen. Real consequences can occur in a game.
3F I strongly agree with the possibility of losing the arm action by just throwing changes. Our coach wants a slower change-up which I believe should come from the ball being deeper into the palm. You make a good point on keeping the fastball interspersed to maintain relativity in the arm action.
I was responding to the line “I feel that is what playing catch and throwing bullpens is for.” It was not so much an argument as a point of view that there is no “real batter” or “real situation” in a practice or bullpen. Real consequences can occur in a game.
3F I strongly agree with the possibility of losing the arm action by just throwing changes. Our coach wants a slower change-up which I believe should come from the ball being deeper into the palm. You make a good point on keeping the fastball interspersed to maintain relativity in the arm action.
Notlong: I understand there are no hitters, but in a bullpen session and playing catch, you can get the feel for your pitches and know if you are hitting spots.
Hitters don't always give you good feedback of how well you are pitching. If you hit spots and can change speeds well in a bullpen session, chances are you can replicate it into a game session.
You are right that games give you feedback. This is why I feel it is important to use all your pitches and actually play the game...not just develop your changeups. If you play the game, you will know what you are or aren't doing well (not enough speed off of the change up, not locating the fastball, etc.)
Hitters don't always give you good feedback of how well you are pitching. If you hit spots and can change speeds well in a bullpen session, chances are you can replicate it into a game session.
You are right that games give you feedback. This is why I feel it is important to use all your pitches and actually play the game...not just develop your changeups. If you play the game, you will know what you are or aren't doing well (not enough speed off of the change up, not locating the fastball, etc.)
Ins shocker,
We have bullpens/practices, but it really teaches the kids how to get outs when they can't use their primary pitch.
Notlong,
We are not disrespecting the other teams as far as I know. We only had one loss over the last two seasons. Most of the teams in the league treat it just the same. New pitcher every inning, different positions, etc. Not all of them, but most of them. We did have one incident where the opposing coach was making comments about,"the big kid can't throw hard, get out there and hammer him." Our coach let him loose after 3 innings of change ups.
3fingeredglove,
Our coaches know the mechanics of my son. they can tell if he is cheating. And they call him on it.
We have bullpens/practices, but it really teaches the kids how to get outs when they can't use their primary pitch.
Notlong,
We are not disrespecting the other teams as far as I know. We only had one loss over the last two seasons. Most of the teams in the league treat it just the same. New pitcher every inning, different positions, etc. Not all of them, but most of them. We did have one incident where the opposing coach was making comments about,"the big kid can't throw hard, get out there and hammer him." Our coach let him loose after 3 innings of change ups.
3fingeredglove,
Our coaches know the mechanics of my son. they can tell if he is cheating. And they call him on it.