Not very different from operations of college baseball, especially after a coaching change. From Herm Edwards (ASU)....
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Interesting, thanks for posting JBB. The part that got my attention was when Edwards pointed out that the 85 scholarships won't be lost... that there are only 45 players, typically, who see the field anyway. This just highlights how ridiculous it is for football to have 85 scholarships. I know - football brings in the money. I know there are injuries, roster changes, etc. But those last 30-40 scholarships can be used to improve other sports in a given program. Third and fourth string guys should get partials, if any scholy $, IMO. Let more hungry walk-ons push the guys in front. Give out that many free rides and you are sure to get some guys with complacency and entitlement. So, I'm sure coaches have to push guys out one way or another all the time. This one is just being made a bit more public.
I am fully aware that it is not uncommon for coaches nudge players out in baseball. I would think it would be only worse in football. For most, your spot is never safe, especially if you show signs of putting things on cruise control once scholarship is in place. Heck, it's a daily dogfight for those who compete like crazy.
Kind of ironic Herm is at ASU.
Didn't ASU baseball coach Smith cut a bunch of scholly players in the middle of the season last year?
Very interesting topic and even more interesting link to interesting comments. Thanks JBB.
For those on the way up, these comments of Coach Edwards should be an eye-opener about the "business" of D1 college athletics, especially Power 5 type athletics. Getting and keeping that scholarship has "responsibilities" associated with it, which include performing at a very high level...and getting better. As this coach views his role, if the athlete on scholarship does not meet his "responsibilities," then the coach is obligated to apply the "consequences"
Maybe its me, but if we take out the student part, does the rest of the message sound like the NFL, except there is a scholarship replacing a salary?
Where the message crossed the double yellow line, for me at least, (and risk associated with that double line) is this:
“I told some guys if you continue to stay hurt, continue to stay in the training room, you have no tape. I can’t grade you if you’re not on tape. I can’t grade you in the training room. And all of a sudden some guys got well. It’s amazing. "
One has to wonder how the Administration and NCAA (not to mention the ASU training staff) would view that message.
I've got to think that there were some "known" issues with guys claiming to be hurt worse than they were....or that the training staff had cleared them to do more than they were doing or I doubt he would have worded it that way. My son knows kids that are milking injuries (not necessarily on his team, but at his school and kids at other schools.) They are kids who likely weren't going to see much playing time anyway so instead of putting in the extra time/effort to get better they just lay back and take the scholly $$$. Maybe every coach needs to be like Edwards and call out those types of guys if that's what's going on there.
Buckeye 2015 posted:I've got to think that there were some "known" issues with guys claiming to be hurt worse than they were....or that the training staff had cleared them to do more than they were doing or I doubt he would have worded it that way. My son knows kids that are milking injuries (not necessarily on his team, but at his school and kids at other schools.) They are kids who likely weren't going to see much playing time anyway so instead of putting in the extra time/effort to get better they just lay back and take the scholly $$$. Maybe every coach needs to be like Edwards and call out those types of guys if that's what's going on there.
That is an awfully slippery slope to navigate when those comments are made to the press and quoted. This is one of many recent illustrations:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20150828-story.html
infielddad posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:I've got to think that there were some "known" issues with guys claiming to be hurt worse than they were....or that the training staff had cleared them to do more than they were doing or I doubt he would have worded it that way. My son knows kids that are milking injuries (not necessarily on his team, but at his school and kids at other schools.) They are kids who likely weren't going to see much playing time anyway so instead of putting in the extra time/effort to get better they just lay back and take the scholly $$$. Maybe every coach needs to be like Edwards and call out those types of guys if that's what's going on there.
That is an awfully slippery slope to navigate when those comments are made to the press and quoted. This is one of many recent illustrations:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20150828-story.html
Agreed. Forcing guys to come back when they are not ready is dangerous.
Doesn't matter the level... Power 5 D1, Mid Major D1, D2, competitive D3, college sports is a "what have you done for me lately" type deal or, at best a "what can you do for me in the future, kid?" type deal. That means you are never secure, unless you are a dominating stud. And shoot, guys aren't just "nudged" out the door ... that sounds so gentle. Sometimes they are practically shoved out the door.
And as to coaches and injury. Some can be complete assholes.
I know first hand of a football player at a Pac 12 school who had what he believed to be a serious injury. But he was cleared by the team trainer to practice. Which he refused to do. As a consequence he was called out by the head coach in front of the entire team and made an example of. He left school for a couple of weeks to go home, since he feared that practicing would just cause him further harm. Coach was REALLY upset. While at home, the kid got examined by a doctor. turned out he had a torn labrum in his hip and needed surgery. Confronted with the medical diagnosis, the coach apologized apparently to the player and his family. (kid's dad was a former NFL player who strongly supported the kid and helped buck him up in the face of the coach's pressure.) Player got the surgery and was strongly tempted to transfer, but played the following year. Entered the draft junior year, got drafted and the rest, as they say, is history. Never amounted to much in the NFL unfortunately. But if he had given in to the coach and trainer, never would have made it at all.
My son has been in 3 different programs. It's a dog eat dog world out there, folks. Just know it going in.
SultanofSwat posted:My son has been in 3 different programs. It's a dog eat dog world out there, folks. Just know it going in.
It’s a dog eat dog world. And I’m wearing Milkbone boxers.
- Norm, Cheers
Is it safe?
Love Herm on TV but i fear this stint wont be for long.
The program Real Sports did a piece on this topic, pressures to play when injured. It's all about the revenues and winning. A couple team physicians (who are retired) were interviewed, they said the pressure is enormous to get the players back on the field ASAP. These team docs get a good salary from the team, plus perks. If 50/50 chance to put the player back in, no question they are back in. If they hold out too many players or cases because of injury, these docs will not be asked back as team physicians.
Here's the thing that really bothers me about this type of situation under the rules as they currently are at this time. When a coaching change occurs in Division I, the new coach can tell current players "you're not going to be on the team next year. You can keep your scholarship if you like and stay at this school until you earn your degree, but you won't be on this team."
But, for the sports of baseball, basketball, and football, an athlete in this situation will still be required to sit out from competition during their first year at another Division I university even though they've been told that they can't continue in their sport at their current college.
We've advised athletes and parents of their options in this type of situation, but it's very frustrating - especially when the new coach doesn't even give the players an opportunity to demonstrate their work ethic and ability (as I know happened to some baseball players at the end of last season).
Shoveit4Ks posted:Love Herm on TV but i fear this stint wont be for long.
It's going to be a dumpster fire...like bottom of the Pac 12 dumpster fire.
Edwards is saying out loud what most coaches do. When Darryl Royal coached Texas if he wanted to get rid of a player he had him hold a tackling dummy and ordered his players to beat the crap out of him until he quit. Quit and you lose your scholarship.
The practicing/playing hurt is a fine line. My son was told he was fine playing with a broken bone in his foot. He had surgery in the off season. His career ended in a doctor’s office the next spring when told he needed a second surgery. It took two years before he could run again.
I am not sure Herm is as smart as he thinks he is. If he is just saying out loud what other coaches do, then that is dumb. I agree with others who have commented here that Herm's stint at ASU may not last long.