How to appeal a missed base??????

What age kids are you talking about?

If it is with a pitching machine it is time to give the kids some slack----WOWEEEEE----where are we headed?

It's 7 and 8 year old. I'm not here to debate whether or not it's right to call a 7 year old out for missing a base, I'm just asking the procedure incase it comes up in a game. I think once the ball is returned to the circle an appeal can be made at that time, but I wanted clarification.

I umpire for our local league and we play coach pitch. The ball is returned to the offensive team's coach pitcher after time is called.

Several coaches in our league are very competitive in the season ending tournament, so I asked to be prepared for this possibility. The UIC recommendation was to allow a dead ball appeal with a defensive coach instructing a fielder which base to appeal to after getting the ball back from the coach pitcher if necessary.

It's probably not mentioned in your local rules (it is not covered by ours) so you may want to clarify with your UIC.

Arent we teaching 7 and 8 year olds how to play the game ?---not reprimand them for missing a base---sounds like you want to win too much in your GOOGLE location

It is truly getting scary to read this kind of stuff--let the kids have fun


An appeal play for 7 and 8 year olds--have I missed something---TEACH THEM WITHOUT THE FUNDAMENTALS WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT THE SCORE

quote:

Several coaches in our league are very competitive

Problem 1.......competitive 7-8 yr old coaches...

Answer: your solution sounds reasonable....."The UIC recommendation was to allow a dead ball appeal with a defensive coach instructing a fielder which base to appeal to after getting the ball back from the coach pitcher if necessary"

even though I'm against using the word competitive in any 7-8 yr old activity.........get them pointed in the right direction, running to the right base...and having fun....end of objective....oh, but hot dogs after the game are a must.....

bet its fun to watch......

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Arent we teaching 7 and 8 year olds how to play the game ?---not reprimand them for missing a base---sounds like you want to win too much in your GOOGLE location

It is truly getting scary to read this kind of stuff--let the kids have fun


An appeal play for 7 and 8 year olds--have I missed something---TEACH THEM WITHOUT THE FUNDAMENTALS WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT THE SCORE

Again, I'm not hear to debate the morality of appealing a missed base on an 8 year old. I'm umpiring in this age bracket and I wanted clarification incase it comes up.

In my mind it should never have to come up


UMPIRES for 8 year olds---you have to be kidding

I used the word "competitive" in an attempt to be diplomatic.

cccsdad, better to be prepared. About a month after asking for clarification, I had a dead ball appeal of the go ahead run at home plate. The runner had touched the plate, but I was prepared on how to rule on the appeal that isn't covered in local rules (we play local rules, USSSA, and then major league for items not covered elsewhere.)

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
In my mind it should never have to come up


UMPIRES for 8 year olds---you have to be kidding

TRhit, the reality is we do have umpires at this age, so again, for the 3rd feaking time. I didn't come here to listen to your soap box morality on what should or should not be allowed regarding 7-8 year old baseball. Again, the REALITY is, we do have umpires and I am one of them, so In the best interest of the kids (which you seem sooooo worried about), I want to be as prepared as I can be in order to be fair to all parties involved and to be able to do my job to the best of my ability.

Please for the sake of everyone on this board, get off your soap box, we all get it. You don't think there should be any rules or officials in 8 year old baseball.

What rule book are you using? The rule book should tell you and the players the proper procedure for an appeal play.

BTW this is High School Baseball Web. You may want to post this on a different forum where things are dialed up a bit to accurately reflect the nature of a competitive 7-8 yo league. I appolgize because I can not tell you where that place may be. I hope you find it for everyone who is involved. We would not want a replay of the Helsinki Incident of 1919 in the 7/8 World Series. Best of luck.

cccsdad,
USSSA has rules for machine pitch for 7 and 8 year olds. They may be useful to you, but they do not include any procedure for making appeals. See section 8.11.
USSSA rules

This general sort of question probably would be better asked at Eteamz, which has a forum that by custom is primarily concerned with Little League and other youth baseball. Do bear in mind that your particular question would likely elicit the same sentiment that TRhit expressed, except at Eteamz it will be expressed with less tact and restraint. Still there may be somebody there that has experience with machine pitch appeals.
Eteamz OBR rules

Just musing here, but I dont see how a game with kids this young could not have a provision for dead-ball appeals. If its the rule in NFHS (and it is), surely it could be used for 7-8 YOs.

Lets take a breather here....

This is a HS site, but over the years we have been asked evaluate rulings and take questions from LL through NCAA to Pro ball....

I may not agree with the concept of competitive 7-8 year old baseball, but the question was a valid one.....and it was asked by a site member which to me means it needs consideration.....

I have no problem with being asked youth ball questions as long as the poster is aware that the bulk of my response comes from the levels I currently call and not that specific youth organization. I may offer some insight and help, but less than a definate ruling......

CCCSdad has posted valuable threads here and I would never turn away his question nor refer him to other sources...(especially ones I consider inferior to the HSBBW).....and he is doing his part by umipring this level of baseball that admittedly most of us in blue will not do......

I think his solution was reasonable. It may not be inline with NFHS or NCAA or even OBR, but it was clear that they needed it for controlling overly competitive coaches and less for the kids playing the game......

my .02 as always.........

cccs

Not a morality question---just a means of getting the game back to where it should be---never said no rules--said why are you worrying about a missed base with 8 year olds---many have trouble knowing in which direction run much less find a base---relax and let the kids learn the fundamentals of the game and perhaps HS coaches would not have to work so hard to correct the things done wrong previously---are you aware kids get to HS not knowing what a cutoff is?---you get my point---you are the ump in charge---simple say there is no problem with a missed base and no penalty--call time and show the kids what is to be done

cccs, I ran a LL for years and had the varsity team do the umpiring and the rule was very simple--they could call time out anytime they saw fit to correct things they felt were incorrect---you know what !!! the youngsters loved it and they learned the game


But then I am from a different generation where things were different


May I ask you this withoutoffending you---where in the USA is google located?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
cccs

Not a morality question---just a means of getting the game back to where it should be---never said no rules--said why are you worrying about a missed base with 8 year olds---many have trouble knowing in which direction run much less find a base---relax and let the kids learn the fundamentals of the game and perhaps HS coaches would not have to work so hard to correct the things done wrong previously---are you aware kids get to HS not knowing what a cutoff is?---you get my point---you are the ump in charge---simple say there is no problem with a missed base and no penalty--call time and show the kids what is to be done

cccs, I ran a LL for years and had the varsity team do the umpiring and the rule was very simple--they could call time out anytime they saw fit to correct things they felt were incorrect---you know what !!! the youngsters loved it and they learned the game


But then I am from a different generation where things were different


May I ask you this withoutoffending you---where in the USA is google located?

Well, I don't "Run" this league. I just umpire in it, and I wanted clarification on a ruling. I NEVER said it was right or wrong to call a 7 year old out for missing a base, and I have NO authority to change the rules this league operates under. But it is my duty as an umpire to make sure I know the correct ruling incase this ever happens.
Please stop turing this into a debate on what should or should not be called at this age level. We all get it, you're a swell, compassionate guy who thinks it's silly to call a 7 or 8 year old out for missing a base. But our league operates under USSSA rules, so I have to be as educated as possible on these rules, otherwise I'm doing a disservice to the coaches and players. The harsh reality is this, some teams in this age bracket are very competitive and some times saying "coach I'm going to be a swell guy and not call your kid out for missing 2nd base" just wont do. If it's appealed, in our league, we have to make a call.
Now if the coach for the defensive team decides, "hey, this is 7 year old machine pitch, I'm not going to appeal a runner missing a base" I have no problem with that.

Last year I was umpiring a game, the runner missed 3rd and slid home, he was tagged after he slid across home, I called him out because he never touched 3rd but was tagged out at home. So did I make the wrong call? Should I have called him safe? Oh and by the way, that would have been the game winning run. The game went one more inning and the other team won by one run. So I guess in order not to make the one boy feel bad, I should have jobbed the other team and just let it go.

So if the pitching machine misfires or the coach misfeeds it I'm pretty sure you gotta call a balk and advance the runners.

quote:

Originally posted by dad10:
So if the pitching machine misfires or the coach misfeeds it I'm pretty sure you gotta call a balk and advance the runners.

Who the heck said that?

Again I say to you CCCS, if you are the ump in charge---THEN TAKE CHARGE !!!!!


Competitive at 7/8 years old---then they are not learning fundamentals---

cccsdad,

uhh . . . It was a bit of humor.

I'll use one of those smiley things next time . . .

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Again I say to you CCCS, if you are the ump in charge---THEN TAKE CHARGE !!!!!


Competitive at 7/8 years old---then they are not learning fundamentals---

Well my idea of "taking charge" isn't ignoring USSSA, League and park rules because of my personal feelings. I don't have the option and if I ignore what the UIC tells me, I wont be umpiring very long.If the league I umpire in changes their rules and decides not to allow appeals on a missed base, I have no problem with it. But if you have half a brain, which I assume you do. You know darn good and well I can't just go out there and wing it, based on my personal feeling of what's right and what's wrong. What you don't understand is this, some coahces expect the umpires to enforce the rules that are in place of thier age bracket, and I can't say, "come on coach cut the kid some slack" even If I feel in my heart that he should.

I had a coach the other night push his runner off of 1st in an attempt to get him to advance to 2nd, I didn't call the runner out, I just told the coach not to do it. It didn't really effect anything so I let it go. But if a coach on the other team wanted to protest that, he would have won and we would have had to call the kid out. I have no control over what these coaches want to do, but if something like that happens and they want to appeal or protest it, we have to by rule, allow them to.

quote:

Originally posted by dad10:
cccsdad,

uhh . . . It was a bit of humor.

I'll use one of those smiley things next time . . .

My apoligies.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Again I say to you CCCS, if you are the ump in charge---THEN TAKE CHARGE !!!!!


Competitive at 7/8 years old---then they are not learning fundamentals---

Well, to be honest, the most competitive teams in our league are the most fundamentaly sound. So on that point you are dead wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by cccsdad:
[quote]
I had a coach the other night push his runner of of 1st in an attempt to get him to advacne to 2nd, I didn't call the runner out, I just told the coach not to do it. It didn't really effect anything so I let it go. But if a coach on the other team wanted to protest that, he would have won and we would have had to call the kid out.

Dad, Im hearing ya, but here you go doing just what you said you were against - selective enforcement/making up rules. In this case you KNOW you should have called the runner out for 'coach assistance' but you didnt do it. If the coaches are this competitive, why arent you calling the games by the rules? Just as you say, had you been challenged on this you had no defense other than a 'it didnt affect the game." Thats not a protest-proof defense.


I have no strong opinion on how 'competitive' your league should be, but you cant pick and choose the rules you feel like enforcing at the time. Either its a 'fun' kiddie league and rules are enforced as you feel led, or its more serious and you need to enforce all of them. You sound really serious about doing a good job in this league, so this 'oh heres an area where I do what I feel like" puzzles me.

quote:

Originally posted by LonBlue67:

quote:

Originally posted by cccsdad:
[quote]
I had a coach the other night push his runner of of 1st in an attempt to get him to advacne to 2nd, I didn't call the runner out, I just told the coach not to do it. It didn't really effect anything so I let it go. But if a coach on the other team wanted to protest that, he would have won and we would have had to call the kid out.

Dad, Im hearing ya, but here you go doing just what you said you were against - selective enforcement/making up rules. In this case you KNOW you should have called the runner out for 'coach assistance' but you didnt do it. If the coaches are this competitive, why arent you calling the games by the rules? Just as you say, had you been challenged on this you had no defense other than a 'it didnt affect the game." Thats not a protest-proof defense.


I have no strong opinion on how 'competitive' your league should be, but you cant pick and choose the rules you feel like enforcing at the time. Either its a 'fun' kiddie league and rules are enforced as you feel led, or its more serious and you need to enforce all of them. You sound really serious about doing a good job in this league, so this 'oh heres an area where I do what I feel like" puzzles me.

My point was, I'm not out there tyring to pretend this is the bigs, and this was no fault of the kid, so I didn't see a need to ring the kid up because the coach did a no, no. Yes I realize that I should have called the runner out, and my first impulse was to do so. Had the game been competitive I more than likely would have, but the team was getting pasted and the poor kid was lucky to get to first base. I just didn't see a need to rub salt in the wound by ringing him up because of what his coach did.