How to approach coach on hitting approach different from his

quote:

Originally posted by Eyeontheball:
Great forum; my first post. Can anyone suggest methods to approach a HS coach(es) with a hitting approach different from a successful approach my son uses. Specifically, the HS likes to teach "hitting down on the ball," while my son has a mechanically sound "match swing plane to ball plane" rotational swing. The coaches support their approach with stories of how ground balls have higher chance of getting on base. I'm not looking to debate ground balls vs. fly balls vs. line drives, but need advice on how to approach/convince coach to give son a chance before changing his swing.

Welcome to the hsbaseballweb!

This is a great question that comes up quite often here. From past debates on this topic, I believe the best approach is to say nothing to the coach. In other words, when he is watching do it his way. In the games, your son has to do what is comfortable to him. If your son produces, I doubt the coach will take him out of the lineup. The tricky part is if your son does not produce in the games or struggles a bit. In that case, you might have to change your aproach or ride the pine. In that case, I would have him try chaning the aproach in order to please the coach if that also meant more playing time. He has all summer long to work on his preferred appoach so I don't think there will be any harm here regardless of what happens. The key is to produce when he gets the chance.

Thanks ClevelandDad. Your suggestion is also my first gut-level reaction. Offhand, can you recall any of the similar topic titles so I could review what was discussed before?

quote:

Originally posted by Eyeontheball:
Thanks ClevelandDad. Your suggestion is also my first gut-level reaction. Offhand, can you recall any of the similar topic titles so I could review what was discussed before?

I don't know particular thread topics but it is pretty easy to find them. There are 20 pages of threads here in the hitting forum. Select each page and scroll down through the titles and I think you'll be able to tell which ones are related to this one. For instance, there is a thread further down the first page of this forum entitled "Thousands of ways to hit=Thousands of discisions to make" where this very issue is discussed. I'll bet there are dozens just like it, just peruse through the pages and you'll find them.

quote:

Originally posted by Eyeontheball:
Great forum; my first post. Can anyone suggest methods to approach a HS coach(es) with a hitting approach different from a successful approach my son uses. Specifically, the HS likes to teach "hitting down on the ball," while my son has a mechanically sound "match swing plane to ball plane" rotational swing. The coaches support their approach with stories of how ground balls have higher chance of getting on base. I'm not looking to debate ground balls vs. fly balls vs. line drives, but need advice on how to approach/convince coach to give son a chance before changing his swing.

From a hitting standpoint I dont agree with your sons coach about hitting down on the ball. However your coach is right about ground balls having more of a chance. There was a 10 year study done in the Major Leagues. Balls over this 10 year period hit in the air accounted for a 180 BA, Balls hit on the ground accounted for a 310 BA and line drive balls accounted for a 380 BA.

As for your approach with this high school coach. I would approach it this way. Have your son tell the coach that he has been hitting rotational for X years and has always produced good numbers if that is the case. Then ask him if he doesnt mind to allow him to use those mechanics to prove himself. If your son hits well with those mechanics the HS coach wont say a word but if he does not then you can bet this coach is going to get all over him to change his swing mechanics. Most HS coaches wont change a players mechanics if they are producing.

Only bad things would happen if you do, Linear coaches for the most part are dictators.


Balls in the air... are much more productive. And if balls in the air included HR, line drives, and pop outs, they have a much bigger average than ground balls.


According to THT, the MLB average groundball out rate was 74 percent in 2007 and 2008. By comparison, the MLB average flyball out rate was 83 percent in 2007 and 84 percent in 2008. Another way of looking at those percentages is to say that batters hit about .260 on groundballs and .160-.170 on outfield flyballs (excluding home runs).

The line drive out rate was 29 percent in 2008, meaning batters hit roughly .710 on these batted balls. The hit rate on infield flies is nearly non-existent as pop-ups are converted into outs 99 percent of the time.

When it comes to batting average, line drives are king, followed by groundballs, outfield flyballs, and infield flies. Put it all together and National and American League teams hit .298 and .302, respectively, on balls in play in 2008. NL and AL clubs had BABIP of .301 and .305 in 2007.

However, when it comes to production, flyballs are more valuable than groundballs. To wit, including home runs, line drives produced .40 runs in 2007 and .39 in 2008, while the average outfield flyball yielded .18 runs in 2007 and 2008. Meanwhile, the average groundball generated .05 runs per event in 2007 and .04 in 2008.


but... if you insist, I suggest you send him this...Babe Ruth.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/perryhusband/videos/33

quote:

Only bad things would happen if you do, Linear coaches for the most part are dictators.

showme: Amazingly I have found truth in your statement!

H.S. Coach believes what he believes and wants to make his mark. However, if son is producing it's doubtful he with be tinkered with too much.

My boy has already remarked that their Coach "has matured and has stated that he isn't going to mess with successfuly hitting mechanics this year." Those that are having problems, however, that's a different story.

Let me answer this from a HS Head Coach stand point, not knowing anything about you or the coach. A parent coming up to a coach and saying, "Can we talk about your hitting philosophy in regards to my son", will anger the coach and cause problems for your son. I mean do you want him walking into your business and saying, "Hey I don't think you know how to sell insurance." With that said, if your son produces, IMO, I do not believe a coach will bench your son because he is not "doing it my way", I know I would not. The bottom line is production, if your kid produces he will play. My 2 pieces of advice are to continue privately working on what you have been working on. My other piece of advice is to make sure your son listens to what his coach says. Keep in mind this though, if your son does fail you can not blame the coach if he is doing the way he has always done it.

quote:

Originally posted by socalhscoach:
Let me answer this from a HS Head Coach stand point, not knowing anything about you or the coach. A parent coming up to a coach and saying, "Can we talk about your hitting philosophy in regards to my son", will anger the coach and cause problems for your son.

Since I have been through this several times, I took your advice the first couple of kids, not now though. Coach is not god, he's a man like I am. I will talk to him man to man like I would anything else.

quote:

Since I have been through this several times,

Sultan; I understand that perspective. I always felt protecting my son's health (talking more here of the "pitching arm") was my ultimate responsibility and have no problem questioning a Coaches motives or methods in those circumstances.

Come High school level, on hitting @ the JV level thought I might have to get involved in a change he wanted to make (unneccessary, as son was 3-hole hitter leading in all categories so made no sense) mechanical changes. I encouraged young Prime to handle it. He did.

At the Varsity Level, for sure I would want my son to fight that battle. It's a true win-win-win when he and his Coach discuss baseball matters and Dad stays clear. If that didn't work out then I'd consider if there needed to be a personal meeting.

Sultan,
Never once did I say that a coach is a God. Here is my point a little more clearly. For whatever reason, parents think they know as much or more than coaches, any some cases this is true and in some cases it is not, and it is probably because they coached their own kids growing up. However parents think it is ok to criticize coach's publicly and act as if they know as much or more than they do. If you were a stock broker and I showed up at your office telling you that you did not know how to sell stocks and I know more about it than you this would upset you and anger you. The difference is I am expected to take it and you would call security and have me escorted off the property.

socalhscoach unless you where going to Bernard Madoff's office.

Of course, any discussion with the coach would have to be handled properly; that is, in private, with respect, and in a way that would lead to an open, knowledgeable discussion of hitting mechanics. I certainly wouldn't challenge the coaches authority, but my intent would be to open a dialogue acknowledging the positive aspects of the coaches approach while noting the specific pluses in my son's rotational approach. Not everyone on the team can hit ground balls to move the runners over all the time. Someone has to drive the ball in the gap or even hit a sac fly to drive runs in and matching the swing plane to that of the ball has a much higher probability of doing that than a downward chop. Yes, I feel strongly about what is the better hitting approach, but I'm not going to be stupid and try to tell the coach he's wrong.

and that's the problem....if we are talking about HS Coaches that don't think MLB players swing up.

Your explanation premise, is to say that is wrong.


Much better to let them have this epiphany themselves, than any conversation you may have with them.

It's a battle that cannot be won.

I'm 100% with socal on this one. Keep mouth shut, do your work, keep your swing and produce. I know there are some jerks out there who will still get ticked if he's doing his own thing hitting .400 but the vast majority of coaches are going to coach him by saying "atta boy".

If a parent came up to me private, public, email...whatever I'm not going to like it. I know there are parents who know the game - I've never really came across that many of them. The one who impressed me the most became my pitching coach. The others who I felt knew the game kept that to themselves and let me coach. The ones who appraoched me had no idea what they were talking about.

Each coach has a standard way of hitting (or anything in baseball for that matter) but it doesn't mean that's the only way. I'm going on the assumption that all my players don't know that much about hitting and I'm going to teach the things / drills I think work best. But if I'm walking around looking at drills or cage or whatever and see someone stroking it I'm not doing much to them unless it's something I think that will hurt them at the next level. Maybe that's what this guy is doing.

Don't make an issue until there's an issue.

Let me start by saying that I agree with the guys that say "Dont approach the coach." No good can come of this.

At the same time, my son (entering HS next year) is working with a similar swing to yours. If your son is a sucessful hitter with his swing (key point), he should be more successful than most kids who are trying to change to a down through the ball swing.

The reason I think he should be more successful with his existing style, is that his bat will be in the zone of contact longer. His timing of when to start his process is familiar. In comparison, other kids who have to make a complete adjustment to a new swing; then adjust their timing to live pitching; and most importantly adjust their swing to a much smaller zone of contact may have a harder time achieving success.

Some folks have said the coach will likely turn a blind eye to success. Batting averages aren't established in the first couple of weeks and your son's finish is going to show that he's not doing things the coaches way. You have to hope that your son starts hot.

We have changed my son's hitting style to rotational with a level finish. We chose this because of where we live (shorter outdoor season)and the fact that my son is big and powerfully built.

Best of luck.

If playing baseball is a big factor in where you go to High School, do your research first. If a Coach has this philosophy, DON"T GO TO SCHOOL THERE!!! Then, you can possibly do some good for someone elses kid and write a letter to the Athletic Director telling him why you put your kid in another school.

We ran into a similar situation, except at the next level. My son was recruited by a number of schools and decided on a relatively local JUCO where he had several friends attending. The coach had a reputation of insisting on a very linear swing, so we had in depth discussions where he indicated that he would not change my sons swing. My son was a solid recruit primarily because of his bat, he was sought after by schools because of his swing and offensive production.

Once he set foot on the field he was told, along with everyone else that if they wanted to be in the line-up they would need to swing the coaches way. None of us were very happy, including his hitting instructor.

My son made the best of the situation and did what he had to do, adopted the coaches style of hitting became the 3 hole hitter, making all conference and in the top 50 statewide in all offensive categories. BA, RBI, HR's, etc.

We knew he had given up a lot of power by changing his swing, and all MLB scouts that were interested in him disliked his new approach as well.

His hitting instructor laid it on the line for us and said that he would not be able to continue to work with my son if he were to stay at the school.

So, he changed schools and is now able to hit the way he was trained, a method that incorporated his natural ability and swing plane.

I agree with ClevelandDad's approach. If the coach will allow him to get away with it. If not, you will need to let him follow the coach. My experience has been that to question a coach's approach to anything is a bad idea and only creates problems.

I agree with power about doing your homework. A month ago I received an email from a dad of an incoming freshman. He started of by name dropping who is kids is working with and who this guy has mentored. He then went on to question me about who my coaching staff and what we teach. My response to my wife was this, "Who are these people and where are we? If my son, he is 5, were an incoming Freshman I would go from school to school, we have 5 within 15 minutes, and observe what went on and make my decision." If you are a father of an incoming Freshman spend some time observing practices and games and focus on how the kids behave and their hustle effort level, this will tell you what they think of their coach and his ability to lead. Then start focusing on mechanical issues.