Interesting article and debate. I was often accused by the LL dads here that I was driving my child too hard. That then became the "truth" for many who saw what they wanted to see. The reality was that my wife and I tried to avoid TB for her, tried to have her involved in all kinds of things like dance, soc - soc well that sport, etc. She played other sports in HS but was driven to play softball. As I've posted before, I have video I am saving to show her someday of when she was so sick and I was asking her to go home but she wanted to practice. She remained that way in HS and College. The Wife and I decided that instead of pushing her to do whatever, we'd support her wishes for softball. In doing that, she played on her own terms to seek her dream. Since she finished her college career in the spring, she has turned her love of playing into coaching. She refuses to give up the game. Hey, it isn't such a bad thing to have a kid love a sport and want to be the best at that sport. JMHO!
I went back and reread the article because it seemed that a few of you thought it was a little controversial. I don't think it actually set any rigid requirements. I even recall that it said to "gently prod" your child to try other sports - it didn't say force them to give up what they love and spend time doing something they hate. As I said above, I exposed my kids to our church's childrens' choir and piano lessons. It was futile in their case, but they might have loved it! I also exposed them to chess, and they did love that. Exposure to the activity, not forced participation, allows them to find out "who they are."
The author also discourages overworking a kid in one sport while young, indicating that it might be harmful to the youngster's body. Remember his example of the dad that seemed to want to push his daughter back from an injury too soon because he was afraid she'd get behind? Well, duh. From what I've read on here, even those parents who have "baseball only" kids are trying to be careful to avoid overuse injuries, and we can certainly all agree to be careful with a kid coming back from an injury.
And, while no one has brought it up in this thread, even multi-sport athletes have to be careful from burnout and overworking themselves. I had this issue with my older child; he seemed to want to do EVERYTHING, but there's only so much time in a day.
I like what PG said about keeping an open mind. We might have our opinions about whether multi-sport is better than single sport, but none of us has proof. Only anecdotal evidence. The one thing we do know is that some REALLY GOOD players were baseball only, and some REALLY GOOD players were multi-sport. There's not just one way to do it. Expose the kid to other sports/activities, and then let them choose whether they want to be multi-sport or not.
And, by the way, my oldest was multi-sport (football, basketball and baseball) throughout high school, and is a freshman pitcher for a junior college, and my youngest is a freshman in high school who just finished up football and is now working out for baseball. This is his first year not to play basketball, but he chose not to because he thought it would interfere with his baseball season prep. He chose, not us.
CoachB25 posted:Interesting article and debate. I was often accused by the LL dads here that I was driving my child too hard. That then became the "truth" for many who saw what they wanted to see. The reality was that my wife and I tried to avoid TB for her, tried to have her involved in all kinds of things like dance, soc - soc well that sport, etc. She played other sports in HS but was driven to play softball. As I've posted before, I have video I am saving to show her someday of when she was so sick and I was asking her to go home but she wanted to practice. She remained that way in HS and College. The Wife and I decided that instead of pushing her to do whatever, we'd support her wishes for softball. In doing that, she played on her own terms to seek her dream. Since she finished her college career in the spring, she has turned her love of playing into coaching. She refuses to give up the game. Hey, it isn't such a bad thing to have a kid love a sport and want to be the best at that sport. JMHO!
I tend to believe this is by far the more common story. What happens is that others see a dad like you offering your kid unconditional and unrestricted support and mistake it - either unintentionally or because they would rather think that you push your kid rather than that your kid is actually motivated and driven more than their own kid - for control. Surely no kid would be that dedicated on their own, right?
CaCO3Girl posted:GoHeels posted:PGStaff posted:I have always thought kids should play every sport they want. Thàt said it is confusing when some say kids shouldn't play baseball year around, even if they want to.
Is anyone keeping track of things? What other sport are all those Dominicans playing? Close to 30% of all the major league players are from Latin American countries. Guess what? They are playing baseball year round!
I suppose some get bunt out and some get injured. I also know they are filling up MLB rosters! Maybe someone should tell them they shouldn't be playing so much baseball.
I generally agree with you, but some context is lacking. Baseball and soccer are incredibly popular in Latin American, and Carribean countries/islands, and therefore get the lions share of the play. Not to mention a lack of infrastructure, equipment, financial means, and otherwise to take up a sport such as American football, for example. Add in climate, and sport as a means for economic mobility, and you have altogether a different set of circumstances.
The white kid from the suburbs isn't trying to defect from his country, nor go spearfishing for food. He is choosing which songs to add and subtract from his iPod playlist, while pondering which fall sport to choose from. In our country we are blessed to have such alternatives and distractions.
GoHeels, The article said that two of the top three ways to destroy your child's athletic future is to let them specialize when they are young in one sport and to only play one sport.
PGStaff has a valid point in that that is exactly how several Latin American Countries treat baseball and they now comprise almost 30% of the MLB rosters. i.e. perhaps the premise of those two things being bad for kids may be false, since it seems to be working for the Latin American countries.
I think there is a misconception here about what actually happens with these kids. They are sent away from their families when young to play with people they don't know until they can be accepted to the academies. Their education promised is wayyyy below our standards. They are exposed to various types of "medicines" by their so called agents to get stronger and who will later basically have families lie about health issues, fix birth certificates etc to get drafted or signed then only to take most of their money for an opportunity to come play in the US when they reach the legal age that the US allows them to enter the country. And keep in mind that they are the ones willing to play in the lowest of milb levels under different circumstances american players are willing to do. Our kids need their own room and bathroom. They live 4 or 5 in an apartment and send their paycheck home to their families. Can you see your sons doing that? You guys complain that milb players don't make enough to live on! Our kids couldn't live like they do for a month!
Yeah, definitely they have it so much better playing baseball everyday month after month, year after year than our players ever will! Come on folks, sounds wonderful huh?
Maybe someday your sons will get an opportunity to get very close to one of these players who will tell them exactly what they had to go through to escape poverty.
So in retrospect, I have no issue that son loved to participate in all type of sports as a young boy, basketball, golf, soccer, bowling, surfing , street hockey besides baseball and never played baseball year round untiI HS. In the long run I feel that he actually gained a better appreciation for baseball because of all the other stuff he wanted to do. We were never afraid he might not love the game as much as we did.
ClevelandDad posted:I don't know what the injury stats are but as far as where do the majority of high level players (e.g., college and above) come from it's no accident they come from California, Texas, and Florida, Georgia, etc. I've estimated my son on a good year, weather wise, growing up here in the North maybe got in 75 games a year between spring, summer, and fall. I've read here where kids in warmer climates have can play 150 games or more for the year. That's an astounding difference. Similarly, using hockey as an example. Where do these kids generally come from? Canada, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Wisconsin... etc.
There are two things needed. Good genes plus skill development. What you'll see from Northern players are guys who may be a little more raw when they get to the collegiate level but sometimes have decent upside with further development even though they are competing with guys who are in fact more developed. Also, Northern kids many times have less wear and tear on their bodies especially for pitchers. You'll see elite southern programs like North Carolina and Clemson recruiting Northern kids and getting very good results. Matt Harvey is one who comes to mind and even he had TJ surgery after he got to the pros.
Very good CD. That's why Rick Porcello was sought after and has proved pitchers from the north can be pretty good investments.
BTW, there are plenty of milb Latin pitchers having TJS and lots of Latin milb caught taking steroids. And I strongly believe most established Latin players weren't always taking just healthy stuff.
That could be the reason for the 30%. No one seems to want to talk about this stuff, but they didn't all make it by bringing their own guts (love that phrase).
One thing for sure, much better to grow up here in the States than to grow up in the Dominican Republic. Unless you happen to be one of the best in the Dominican. Then you don't have to worry about the draft and you can become a millionaire at age 16.
The DominicanRepublic is the size of a small state in the USA. Yet one out of every 5 Major League players comes from there.
We can assume anything we want, that is an unbelievable percentage. It's not the only poor country or country with warm climate. It's not a country known for world class athletes.
Injuries and steroids are a problem everywhere. The reason there are so many MLB academies there is because MLB clubs have grown to understand how much talent there is there. Just think, one out of ever five Major League players from this place that is the size of a small state here. How can that be?
There are many reasons. However, does it make sense to deny that one of those reasons is that they play year around, that kids there are specializing even at a young age. Maybe it is due to nothing else to do there. All the reasons don't change the fact that they play baseball year around.
I'm not saying it is right or wrong. It's just the results are flabbergasting.
There are many examples of those that have reached the highest level of baseball taking many different routes. Some that have parents that pushed them, some that have parents that didn't even care, others that have so called perfect parents that have all this stuff figured out. Some from wealth, others from poverty. Some very strong students, some weaker students.
Bottom line... IMO there is no road map to the top. There is more than one way! The only thing "I think" I've learned for sure is that people tend to do the things they enjoy much better than the things they don't enjoy.
BTW, I didn't read the link, was only responding to some of the comments. Not that there was anything wrong with those opinions. Just thought I might add something to at least think about. I never cared for the only "one" way to do things thinking.
Title: A post too long
I agree with the article. I also agree one size doesn't fit all. I've coached from 7yo rec ball through 18u travel. I've seen obsessive parents at the kiddie rec level through 18u showcase ball. These were parents who were chest pounders on what their kids have accomplished and what they will accomplish in the future. Their kids hated the post game ride home.
At the end of a 10u travel baseball season I heard a kid mutter, "Thank f'n God it's over." This was one of the better players on a team that went 21-4. First I told him the language wasn't acceptable. Then I asked why he said it. He explained he will now have the entire month of August, until soccer to not be criticized all the way home. Dad never got past LL. His boy was going to be a star. The kid didn't make his high school baseball team. This is just one of many situations I've seen.
I've coached the nephew of an NBA coach and the son of an NBA star in basketball. I told both adults if they saw anything I could do as a coach to improve please tell me. Both responded it's preteen basketball. I'm doing just fine. Both sat off to the side at games and never made a noise except to cheer. Neither showed up at a practice after the first one.
My kids were raised on reading and fitness. The best approach is do it yourself, not tell them to do it. The kids wanted to do the same. They were signed up for a sport every season from the time they were eligible to play. They played four sports until high school. My daughter played three in high school. My son played two. He was cut from basketball soph year for missing "optional" off season workouts.
i was also a parent who didn't say much at games. Any deep analysis was done with one other dad. He was a good friend I trusted. Part way through son's junior year of baseball a parent commented I cheered for all the players except my kids. That I shied away from conversations about my kid's play. I asked if they saw the article in the paper about my son. I explained his play on the field is doing all the talking that needs to be done. I'm uncomfortable with the parade of accolades directed at me by parents when it's my son who is doing the work. I had my turn. It's time to enjoy watching.
The important thing about the article is have perspective. Being a college softball prospect for my daughter was an overnight flip switching event when she grew, got strong and became very confident. At fourteen I never would have guessed she would play college ball. At fifteen she was being recruited.
From age seven in every sport I heard " you won't have to pay for college" about my son. I said thanks and chuckled after the person walked off. At seven he said he was going to play soccer for Duke. At eight he was going to play soccer and basketball for Duke. At ten, when his sister verballed he declared he would play college baseball as I did. I suggested he make the middle and high school teams first. Note: He hates Duke now.
i didn't pay for any training for my kids until post puberty and in high school. I saved the training for when it would have value and impact. They became college prospects when knowledgable people told me they were. Not the other way around.
I never told my kids they have to do this or that to play college ball. In fact, when told they became prospects I told them it's up to them. I said I would not drag them by the collar over the finish line. Motivation was up to them. The only thing I ever said to either is, "Are you reaching your goals laying on the sofa?" And kept right on walking through the room.
When i see experienced people warn about early specialization I hear taking the sport too seriously. Not just playing one sport. Yes, there are certain sports (i.e. gymnastics, skating) where there is legitimate pressure to succeed early. According to Dr Joel Fish, the head of Center For Sports Psychology these sports have the most kids in counseling for messed up emotions. For every Tiger Woods there are a thousand Todd Marinoviches. And what happened to Tiger Woods when he lost the person (father) in control of his life?
I agree with both justbb and PGStaff. I never had the discussion about focusing on one sport or which sport to play with any of my kids. My guess is that my interest in any given sport rubbed off on them. My son the baseball player who was an outstanding football player told me in the fall of ninth grade he no longer wanted to play football. My heart was "slightly" broken and his coach tried to get him to change his mind. He wanted to concentrate on baseball and it was his decision. I have no problem with kids wanting to focus on one sport and have no problem with kids who want to play multiple sports. These are decisions our kids need to make and we parents do not need to push either way. I'll use another analogy. My Dad was a hunter and he exposed me to it and I love hunting. I exposed my kids to it "slightly" and although they seemed to like it, they never had the exposure opportunities that I did. None of them are hunters although they love to fish as we did that many times growing up :-)
http://espn.go.com/blog/onenac...e-dominican-republic
I found the above article interesting. The above link speaks to some of the sub-topics mentioned in this thread. Please note: it is not a short read!
I still dies really really hate this new format. I don't see the pictures anymore and thats how I recognized some regular posters. I guess I am visual. I think I have poated twice since the new format (many may be thankful lol) but this is an irresistible topic every time it.comes up. My son will be playing football, basketball and baseball as a freshman next year. So hard to believe he will be playing a high school football game in what about 9 months? I am not a huge fan of him playing football but he wants to do it. I remember one night when he was ten running from football practice to swim practice to a fall ball game. I think that was the night we realized you just can't do it all all the time. Does all th Is diversification make him better at baseball? Definitely not. You get better at baseball by playing more baseball period. I have still never gottwn an acceptable explanation from anyone regarsing exactly what constitutes 'liing rhrough your xhildren' and I guess even why that is bad. My life is what it is at this point but watching my kids gr Iw and succeed is what I take joy in. Everyday I live through my children. They are what makes my life worth living. As for specialization... who cares? Much ado about nothing. If you want to specialize then do it. If you don't then don't. But you know what? I wish all the so called experts would juat shut uo and let people live their lives. Everybody is different how about the theme of the times, respect differences. How do these knuckleheads know what is best for other peoples families? I am getting more perturbed every time the subject comes up. Who died left these 'got to be well rounded or you are the devil' types king?
I went to desktop view on my phone and at least I see some pictures now! But I should also mention that I do have another son who is a swimmer. Since this is a baseball site I usually just talk about my baseball player. But the swimmer pretty much specializes in swimming as you almost have to in that sport. He plays basketball for his grade school basketball team but that is not a big time commitment. His chances of a Division one scholarship are exponentially larger than his baseball playing brother. He is 12 years old and it looks like within a year or two he will already have some times that are equivalent to at least small college swimming. he absolutely loves it. He loves being one of the renowned swimmers in the state. All of the other major swimmers know who he is. He really gets into it. It's like he is part of a small fraternity of all the best swimmers in the state and in the Midwest.so I have two very different sons one wants to play every sport Under the Sun and I'm not sure in the long run if that is best for him. And I have another son while he wants to be a kid and dabble in other sports he wants to be as good as swimmer as he can be. So we are on both ends of the spectrum. and it is crystal clear to me having two sons both polar opposites that neither is right or wrong. It is not a matter of right or wrong it is a matter of a choice.
2020dad posted:I still dies really really hate this new format. I don't see the pictures anymore and thats how I recognized some regular posters. I guess I am visual. I think I have poated twice since the new format (many may be thankful lol) but this is an irresistible topic every time it.comes up. My son will be playing football, basketball and baseball as a freshman next year. So hard to believe he will be playing a high school football game in what about 9 months? I am not a huge fan of him playing football but he wants to do it. I remember one night when he was ten running from football practice to swim practice to a fall ball game. I think that was the night we realized you just can't do it all all the time. Does all th Is diversification make him better at baseball? Definitely not. You get better at baseball by playing more baseball period. I have still never gottwn an acceptable explanation from anyone regarsing exactly what constitutes 'liing rhrough your xhildren' and I guess even why that is bad. My life is what it is at this point but watching my kids gr Iw and succeed is what I take joy in. Everyday I live through my children. They are what makes my life worth living. As for specialization... who cares? Much ado about nothing. If you want to specialize then do it. If you don't then don't. But you know what? I wish all the so called experts would juat shut uo and let people live their lives. Everybody is different how about the theme of the times, respect differences. How do these knuckleheads know what is best for other peoples families? I am getting more perturbed every time the subject comes up. Who died left these 'got to be well rounded or you are the devil' types king?
We had a fall like that a few years ago. We lived in Boulder. Our son played football for a team out of Brighton, about an hour east. He played fall baseball for a team from Golden, about 45-50 minutes south and fall basket ball for a team in Lakewood, about an hour south. Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday I picked him up from school and hustled him east for football practice. Every Thursday was baseball practice. Then a football game every Saturday morning followed by two basketball games on Saturday night. Then two baseball games on Sunday. There was a lot of sleeping and doing homework in the car. The next fall, he wanted to do it again. That's the only time I've ever put my foot down and said we can't do it. He had to pick two - dropped football.
There is a similar thread going on currently titled "Great Line from Article on Youth Sports". There are a few quotes that I think apply to some of the issues and debates going on here in this thread.
This from TPM...
"You have to understand, all parents at one point will pass the crazy test.
Every single one of us has been out of control for one reason or another, its normal.
Some of the advice given here is to try to help keep someone else from getting crazy, and basically help them through that crazy phase.
Sometimes it comes across as being judgmental, and someday most of the folks from the younger set will understand and try to help others understand about not getting crazy.
"
And this from 2017LHPScrewball...
"...but please do not burn your kid's childhood in an effort to secure a college roster spot."