how to frame

OUCH!?!

Catchingcoach, do you want to take this one or are we better off leaving it alone and hoping no one sees it?

I truly hope you're kidding and not really saying it's a catcher's job to be sneaky.

for examples of this style watch the following players:

charlie o'brien
brian schneider
michael barrett
johnny estrada
eddie perez
sal fasano

theres a few for you.. and all of them are said to be some of the best receivers in the game.. oh yes, how many cy young award winners did charlie o'brien catch, was it 8 or 9... when everyone wants you to be their personal catcher because of the way you receive the ball you must have a pretty good idea about it. how long did he catch for? oh yes, 15+ yrs in the big leagues. why do kids jam their thumbs or struggle when they catch someone with velocity and movement. fact is, if they let the ball come to them instead of going out to get it, they have more time to react to movement and be able to get underneath the low pitch and bring it up for a strike. and what does it mean to frame something.. taking something and making it look better than what it is.... if catchers werent being sneaky they would catch the ball and throw it back to the pitcher... they would not hold it and present it while hoping the umpire gives them the strike... if they are not sneaky, why not correct the umpire when he calls a strike that you know was really a ball..

Im not against a good frame on a close pitch as I have indicated in past discussions....however...

No HS or Higher catcher gets a strike 6 inches off the plate from me....6 inches off the plate is over the batters box line.........if your trying to steal strikes from me, you wont find me cooperative...... and it wont be a good day for you at the plate or your pitcher......

just my .02

catchaprospect, I recuctantly have to say I disagree with most of what you're saying, and think you should really reconsider your technique, and comments. A good catcher sways as necessary, he catches the ball out in front, NOT deep into him, which allows the umpire to see the final location well and call a strike a strike. He has soft hands, but a somewhat firm arm at the same time if you know what I mean. A good cathcer is "quiet" back there and has his best games when he isn't really noticed by the fans. I guarantee you that the players, coaches and umpires notice him when he has a "quiet" game. A good catcher doesn't try to be sneaky, the borderline ones sometimes resort to sneakiness to be in order to try and get by. A good catcher builds a repore with the umpire he's working in front of, and that starts with protecting him, then giving him a good view so that he can do his job. Pitchers get many more borderline pitches by showing an umpire that they can pound a spot near the plate, than any catcher is ever going to steal for them. A good catcher doesn't try to make an umpire look like a chump by trying to fool him all day long.

If you're advocating catching the inside part of the ball, you need to go find a catching coach to teach you proper technique. Any catcher worth his shin guards strives to catch the outer half of the ball, no matter where it is located. You need to beat the ball to the spot, catch the outer half and give Mr. Umpire a good view. Good catchers keep strikes strikes, and don't worry as much about trying to turn balls into strikes.

I don't mean to sound adversarial, but you have really said some things in your post that are completely opposite of what a good catcher does and what good coaches and scouts look for in a catcher. I've had a few pretty good ones who've played summer ball on my teams, catchers who're now playing at schools in the Pac-10, WAC and some great junior colleges and none of them would be even close to those places doing it the way you describe.

for starters, the strike zone can be expanded by 6 inches, due to the point of having some of the glove on the black - if the umpire cant see where it is in the glove, and it looks like he hasnt done extra stuff to catch it... then yes you can get that much..... i understand where umpires are coming from, but it is my job to make those pitches appear to be strikes

2nd point from 06catcherdad regarding the following: "you should really reconsider your technique, and comments. A good catcher sways as necessary, he catches the ball out in front, NOT deep into him,"......."you have really said some things in your post that are completely opposite of what a good catcher does and what good coaches and scouts look for in a catcher."... "I've had a few pretty good ones who've played summer ball on my teams..none of them would be even close to those places doing it the way you describe."

im glad you've had kids on your summer team go on to play DI... any coach can buy a video, or attend a coaches clinic and simply rehash what was told that day.... so as an FYI, i played DI baseball and played professionally for 11 years.. sorry that i teach my kids advanced techniques behind the plate so they are way ahead of their competition at their age level.. that could be why i've had a 14year old catch at a WWBA 18u event catching 87-92 pitchers --- he used to receive the way you like, however i showed him an easier way to receive that has elevated him game enough to be able to handle high level college/pro pitching.

there are many different ways to catch, it depends on the individuals body type for comfort level.. its ok to try something new if it can produce results (even if you dont initially understand the logic).. but please dont suggest to someone to find an instructor to teach me how to catch.... i have a catching clinic on video from when i was with the montreal expos --- i'd be more than happy to send you a copy of everything that i teach... i learned this method from charlie o'brien both by studying tapes of him and being in spring training with him -- he was one of the best receivers to ever play and every pitcher wanted to throw to him because of this method...would you tell him the same if he had posted this???

Well, I guess we just see things differently in some respects. I don't believe in catching the inner half of the ball, and don't know anyone else who does either. I don't believe in catching the ball deep in against your chest, and don't know anyone else who does about that, either. You certainly have the experience and background, which is why I'm amazed that you espouse these techniques. If a catcher keeps his glove in near his body, he isn't going to catch a pitch very far to his right if it has some velocity. I've seen catchers with this technique and watched them struggle with balls to their right and it's obvious why. You can't reach as far to the right with your arm back toward your chest. When you catch the inner half of the ball, you're going away from the zone with your glove when you catch it. Sorry, but that isn't going to buy many strikes with good umpires.

Like I said, I guess we just see things differently. Nice website by the way.

actually its not hard getting the outside pitch. what i do is keep my glove along the same line, so i slide it from side to side with as limited body movement. when the ball hits my glove, i let the glove give but at an angle back toward the middle of my body by a couple inches --- not a pulling or jerking motion.

send me an email and i'll send you a couple picks of how i do it... it might be able to see instead of trying to explain...

this is the best thing about baseball, there are so many different ways to do everything in this game.... there is no set way, but that is why we are here - to get input from others and discuss catching.

quick story: i caught that way in high school after i attended the doyle baseball school.. i would drop to a knee, sway and extend.. i did it all through college.. then my first game on the first pitch of rookie ball the umpire called a pitch on the outer 3rd a ball.. and when i asked him why it was a ball, he told me catch the ball where it crosses and not to stab out at it because he wont call it..... i talked to my manager about it and was told to let the ball give instead of sticking it -- telling me im not in college anymore.... i had to change my style and start studying the fundamentals of others... this style made the ball easier to catch for me, and it allowed me to play as long as i did..... thanks for the input... as you can see i love talking about catching and debating different things--- never with intend to undermind anyone... send me an email and i will send some pics to see....

i also was taught to block the way mike matheny does by gaining ground, staying over the ball, and forcing it to a standstill under your body... i also keep my body square to the pitcher on either sides of the plate --- completely unorthodox and against the norm, yes.. but i could show you that as long as you are over the ball and square to the pitcher, someone could throw a ball from your side at you and you can still make it stop under you... this is a way that controls the ball instead of just blocking ...... we'll save that for a rainy day and i would have to send video footage to show......... anyways its good to see the passion on this board!!!

catchaprospect...you have a PM

My daughter (fastpitch catcher) was taught to catch the outside of the ball and flex her wrist (in it's natural position and motion) toward the strike zone. Using this technique, the back of the glove will always face the pitcher. High pitches, flex down. Left side pitches, rotate right, and so on. Arm doesn't move with the glove--it's all in the wrist. In fact, when catching the outside of the ball, it's quite natural for the glove/wrist to move in this direction.

What do you think?

i originally meant the inside of the ball (easier to demonstrate than express sometimes).. the wrist flick is too much i think, turning the wrist down, in or out is an unnatural way to catch --- they wouldnt do this warming up in the outfield or playing catch with a teammate ( so why do it behind the plate )

framing means making sure a strike gets called a strike, not making a ball look like a strkie. just catch the ball smoothly where it is at and dont let the ball dictate where your mitt goes, keep it strong and have your glove catch it where its pitched and remember to sway your body to get in front

Golden Glove Catcher just said everything that needs to be said on this topic. Keep a strike a strike. Quality umpires do not like a kid back there trying to turn balls into strikes. More strikes are turned into balls in one inning than balls turned into strikes in an entire game. Just catch the ball. Stick it in the zone and dont fade with the pitch. The fact is alot of kids look like they have it together catching upper 70's mid 80's stuff. There back there framing their little *** off. If you want to see who can catch and who can not then put a guy on the hill bringing upper 80's low 90's stuff with movement and then you will see. Just catch it and dont let the velocity or movement take you out of the zone on the catch. All this stuff about do this and do that and steal strikes is just not reality. Its not your job as the catcher to throw strikes. Its not your job as a catcher to steal strikes. Its your job to keep a strike a strike and keep balls in front of you.

I like the term "fade with the pitch". That is a great way to discribe how most young catchers recieve balls both in and out of the strike zone.
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