How to Let Coach Know You're Working On Your Own?

From now to the end of spring the high school team takes priority. If he wants to be seen and win a position on the high school team be seen as much as possible. "Don't worry, I'm working out with the travel team" only works for established players.

I agree with RJM.   HS coaches tend to be VERY interested in a player's commitment to "the team".  So, player needs to show where his priorities are.

Note too, team bonding is also important to the HS coach and it can be a really tough thing to do if the player isn't involved much with the other players and what they're doing.

The team bonding element Truman mentions is significant.  As my son's coach puts it in October when the workouts begin, "the chase for the rings begins now".

My son works on his own and with trainers outside of the school.  The coach is aware of this and works to allow him to miss one of the team workouts a week, knowing that he's outworking every other kid he has.  He still wants him at a majority of his HS workouts, even though he knows that he's getting half the benefit from them as he does his own workouts and his workouts with his trainer.  He stresses the importance of all the players seeing all the other players dedicated to the team and putting the team above all else.  This is an extremely important part of his program.

I recommend that you prune back a bit of the outside work and have your son fully commit to the HS program.  He could probably forgo two of the five travel workouts each week and fill in the gaps on his own to make up the difference.  Not necessarily ideal, but a fair compromise.

Producers put up numbers. Numbers dont lie. When he's banging RBIs this spring coach will come around.

CmassRHPDad posted:

Producers put up numbers. Numbers dont lie. When he's banging RBIs this spring coach will come around.

A. RBIs aren't a big measure of production.

B. The idea of being a team player may be the difference between making the team or not, or starting or not. Unless he is hands-down the best player on the team (and I argue that there is almost never a "best player,") it has the ability to affect his role.

C. Being incorporated into the team has benefits in and of itself.

You're right. I understand. I was just trying to make the point that although he might not be around all the time now, the players hard work will pay off and be recognized by the coach once the season is underway.

Golf,

You mentioned your new coach was late to the game, which I am interpreting as hired during this school year. I think this gives you a unique inroad to your son having a conversation with the coach since your son had no idea what type of culture and workout regimen the new coach would bring to the program. 

With that in mind, your son could approach the coach with this dilemma as a positive. He could say coach, I'm in a bit of a spot here. Since he didn't know the culture and routine that the new coach would bring, I've been working out on my own outside of school to be make sure I'm ready to compete. In some workouts, your dilemma is arm care and potential over use. He could explain what his his workout routine is outside of school to communicate that he's getting reps in and not just bagging some workouts. Finally, he could state that next season he will dial down his outside workouts(if that is indeed the plan) since he now knows what the new coach expects.

After that conversation, you can see what the coach says to determine your next step. 

Golfman25,

You've been around, and you know the deal.  Almost every kid that aspires to play college baseball is involved in some kind of travel program for development as well as exposure purposes.  However, he's got to put HS baseball in front of travel at this point in time (winter to end of high season).  There is no way around it.  Pick the baseball developmental things he can do where it doesn't interfere with high school baseball or high school studies.   My oldest son really focused on his 60 time, and agility through his travel team during the winter period.  My kid did it, and many others before and after  him did it.  The 530am high school workouts or after-school workouts...not to mention the high school workload junior year while visiting colleges, writing emails to coaches, college camps, weighing offers, SATs/ACTs practice and real tests, junior prom, etc.....been there, done that.  It is not easy, but you make it work by focusing on the most important thing during that period of time....high school baseball. 

As always, JMO.

I can only give my perspective as a HS Coach.  If a young man came to me and said that he is working, I would appreciate the communication knowing that that the truth about that work will display itself in tryouts.  IOWs if the young man were lying to me, they won't be able to measure up to the players I know were working.  I'd also understand that this would benefit my program if the young man was working out.  For me, I have never subscribed to the notion that my off season workouts are code for mandatory workouts.  I never take roll and I let the team workout without me intervening.  I do let the seniors run things and I sit in a chair. 

(Caveat, I now am coaching HS softball but I did the same with baseball when I was he HC in Baseball.)

I agree with others here.  My advise would be that Son talk to new coach, stating that he is fully committed (assuming he is) with making the HS team priority #1 when coach thinks it is appropriate.  Present the routine that he is doing with the travel organization.  Ask for his advice. 

Lot's of possible scenarios can come from this - perhaps not all of them optimal.  At the least, coach will know he is working hard, serious about baseball, respectful of the coach and willing to put team first.

But you and son have to be willing to accept if coach decides he wants him with HS workouts as priority #1 even if you know that means a bit less quality and specificity on the workouts.  As others have touched on, there is value in team bonding and setting example with the HS teammates with your work ethic and loyalty.  Hopefully, a good plan can be hashed out with the coach.  If not, your son can probably add some of the key missing elements of the workout on his own until HS season is over and he can resume with the travel org.

As a HS coach, in this situation, during summer and fall, I am open to the player getting most or all of his work in with the travel org if it is clear he will have the opportunity for better competition and more individual attention.  Come winter, the expectation is team first.  Travel orgs certainly understand that at some point, it is time to shift priority to HS for the year and that point varies from HS program to program. There is almost always a solution that gives the player the optimal chance to develop while maintaining team chemistry.  It's not always easy to find the right balance though.

IMO, the reason he's having trouble figuring out how to tell the coach that he's getting in his workouts with the travel team, is because he knows that isn't what the coach wants to hear. This is a case where he can't have it all. Sounds like he can't do what's best for his own development and also put his high school team first. He needs to choose one and accept the consiquences of that decision. Nothing wrong with either choice.

My perspective as a HS coach in Chicago suburbs: We tell our kids in the late fall/early winter that the next team you will play for is the HS team. I think that is getting lost nowadays with the year round travel training. I expect our guys to be at our workouts if they can make it. I know there may be some times that guys miss due to a travel workout sometimes, but the communication needs to be there. 

Of course, you are paying for the travel training. That is a factor. But truthfully from the HS coaching side, that cannot matter to us. If the HS coaches started catering to that and allowing all players to brush off what they want to do then how does the coach accomplish what he is trying to do?

HS coaches usually want players who want to be there. To be part of the program, to be with teammates during these workouts. Does it help win baseball games? Probably not. But it can have positive outcomes for chemistry, work ethic, trust in coach, etc. 

Hopefully this coach can implement more planning going forward. We ask all players for their travel training schedule ahead of time so that we can come up with a schedule that least interferes. We implement workouts that complement those in the PE school weightlifting class and those that aren't. 

Not sure if your coach is that organized yet. 

If it was me, I would expect all players who want to be part of my program to be there as much as possible. It speaks volumes to a coach if it shows that a player may put another team first... ESPECIALLY if the next team the player will play for is yours. 

We tell our parents too that your child will be doing baseball specific workouts with arm care, hitting, pitching, with our instructors (who are qualified)...For free!! Why pass that up? The answer we find out is because we are HS coaches. We all at least played college baseball but haven't been drafted at some point or are affiliated with recruiters or MLB scouts. We aren't qualified to make the kids better. And of course the other answer we get is because the money has already been spent for the travel training. 

I know it doesn't sound like your situation is exactly the same, but your son has a opportunity to make things work with both teams as long as he communicates and priotizes what he really wants. 

This is one of the advantages of the California CIF rule -- the travel programs shut down from Christmas until Memorial Day (more or less), leaving the high school programs as the sole focus. (Not that a kid couldn't be working out on his own, but it eliminates the travel -- high school conflict).

Good luck to your son, Golf -- no matter what, his eagerness to work hard is going to pay dividends.

My son is in constant contact with his hs coach--telling him BEFORE he commits to something what he's looking at or telling him I'm thinking about doing program a or program b. What do you recommend? It allows coach to prioritize his workouts and also gives coach an interest in sons success. My only worry is if coach gets Sick of sons texts. 

Son had same issue at his high school.  Was new kid at school as a sophomore.  Did both the HS work and the travel work with teammate that was on travel team with him.  Both had very successful sophomore years making All-State.  Next year they got to drop the HS portion of his work at the start of the year but instead did "complementary" work that assisted his travel work as well has "teaching" some of this travel workout to the team.  This did not set well with some of the kids or their parents (as they thought that our boys were getting preferential treatment).  Coach said ok, "we'll just do the travel workouts at school", which are MUCH more strenuous and time consuming (before and after school), son and friend led them.........needless to say the kids that were whining about it wanted to go back to "regular" workouts.  Coach said "no", you got what you asked for and that all workouts are now mandatory.  Sometimes it is better to keep quiet, or you may get what you ask for.

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

CoachB25 posted:

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

By the time anything happens the season is over. Even if it's half over what do you think the reaction would be to disrupting the season when the coach is suspended or fired?

Two former pro basketball players (dads) told the basketball coach he was out of his mind to cut my son. It didn't change the coach's mind. He wanted players who were going to maximize their talent and be committed to the program. He didn't believe my son could do it playing two other sports. 

It worked out. Having the winter to focus on baseball and physical training made him a better baseball player.

Thanks.  A lot of good points.  Just to follow up on some. 

He is making most of the after school HS workouts.  He misses the early AM sessions because they are duplicative with what he does the night before and doesn't get home till 11:00 pm. 

Yes coach is a new coach, hired in late fall.  He is also new to the school, so not much is known about him.  Essentially, every player is a "new player."  It's going to be an interesting spring. 

Cmass, that is what he is mainly thinking.  He's going to have to perform on the field in the spring no mater what happens in the winter.  His winter has been going good -- made several positive strides in strength, speed, velocity and mechanics.  Time to put it on the field though.  Heck, I told him that when they start hitting he needs to pull out is Rawlings 5150 which makes a god awful loud ping -- but it really turns heads.   

Kid is a little shy with adults and doesn't like talking to coaches about these things.  He feels it sounds like complaining and he doesn't want to be "that guy."  Something he's going to work on.   

So sounds like he'll need to juggle as best he can.  He probably needs to get to some AM workouts so he isn't deemed "sleeping beauty."  It's amazing but start of season is only like 6 weeks away. 

RJM posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

By the time anything happens the season is over. Even if it's half over what do you think the reaction would be to disrupting the season when the coach is suspended or fired?

Two former pro basketball players (dads) told the basketball coach he was out of his mind to cut my son. It didn't change the coach's mind. He wanted players who were going to maximize their talent and be committed to the program. He didn't believe my son could do it playing two other sports. 

It worked out. Having the winter to focus on baseball and physical training made him a better baseball player.

We had a school here that had to give up 16 wins last season for rules' violations. And the high school associations that impose sanctions don't really much care what parents think.

First time posting, long time reader of these forums. I've been using this website and forums for about 5 years now trying to plan / guide my 2018 to be in the best possible position to be a successful baseball player. He's worked hard, off season workouts since 6th grade, has a good bat (told he definitely has a college "swing" -- whatever that means. His off tee VELO his freshman year was metered at 75 mph by University of Michigan during a clinic), good arm and glove. By far not the best kid on the team but definitely no slouch and working on improving his game as much as possible. Has a deep passion and I feel he's one of those players that's a student of the game.  

Unfortunately, 2018 is in a toxic baseball program that includes verbal and mentally abusive staff. And no one wants to say anything about it because they are afraid of how that will affect playing time -- and sadly, we're one of those parents. We've seen retribution many times. HS program does not have a great history, since this coaching staff took over about 6 years ago, of connecting players to good colleges and baseball programs and the coaches do not have a very good reputation among their peers. 

2018 batted over .600 for most of the 2016 season on JV and for some reason was the only soph not pulled up to Varsity at end of the year. 2018 had many conversations with coaches to see what he could so to improve only to get the run around and blown off. We were warned from a couple of parents before his freshman year that coaching staff usually has at least 1-2 kids in "the doghouse" regardless of what they do, and that our kid would most likely be one of those kids. Sure as anything, 2018 has permanent residency in the doghouse. He's been very frustrated over this situation but fights through it and does not give up.

We have never really had the means to get 2018 into travel programs; however, we were told last year that if our 2018 would have any hope getting into a college program (we're looking at junior colleges, only at this point due to 4 year costs) that he needed to get on a travel team this year. He's been very successful in his community athletic league program but I guess that doesn't really hold as much weight as it did when I played community ball 30+ years ago.

Fortunately, 2018 was picked up by a great travel organization and the team is playing up a division (playing "up" an age or two is something we've been doing as much as possible) and there appears to be a potential route to a junior college 2018 has targeted through this organization. Both travel org and HS program will be practicing pretty much at the same times on the same day. Up to this point, 2018 has been to every off-season HS workout program, even taking clinics / camps run by HS coaches to get more face time and display what he can provide to them. Everything seemed pretty cut and dried to us parents: go to the travel practices and catch up with the HS program once tryouts start.

But, after reading the postings in this thread, I'm concerned that if our 2018 chooses travel over HS that it will basically sink him with the HS program for the 2017 season. I'd like to get some input into our situation as it seems unique from what others have been posting. Is it "safe" for 2018 to take a chance on choosing travel over HS practices in our case? And, this is not a case of "daddy goggles"; the situation with coaching staff has been the subject of many conversations with parents and players before and after we got into the program. 

Coach_Dad, congratulations on "coming out" as a poster 

I'm going to bounce around a bit...

You do not have to play HS baseball in order to play college baseball.  A good travel team and a good organized recruiting plan (along with the RIGHT TALENT LEVEL) will suffice.  That said, not playing with the HS program may raise flags that your son must be prepared to answer to and, warranted or not, "the coaches were verbally abusive and not fair" will probably not be looked at as an acceptable response.  At the end of the day, if he is a good enough player, has the grades a school needs him to have and doesn't have any other red flags on his resume, he will be able to find a college program, with or without HS baseball.

Speaking of verbally abusive and seemingly unfair, you just described the perception of most college players toward their college HC.  Sometimes this applies even more so at the better JC's where they typically bring in a large cattle call in the fall, pick the best of the litter, turn, burn and cut the rest.  So, to you and your son, be careful what you wish for.   An old-school verbal yeller and a guy who doesn't want to get close to the players until after he has cut a bunch of 'em is quite common in the college ranks.

If the situation is really bad enough at the HS, cut bait.  But, if your kid loves playing enough to want to play at the next level, he shouldn't let his dislike or lack of understanding of coaches keep him from playing the game he loves with his HS buds.  He needs to work hard enough and know enough of what the coaches are looking for to create separation.  Be good enough of a player to leave no doubt.  Be a good enough teammate to leave no doubt.  Figure out how to break out of the doghouse and stay out of it.  Really, there is very likely a reason he is in the doghouse,  whether you agree with it or not, whether warranted or not.  Doesn't matter.  Take action.  Bust out.  Rise above.  Don't accept the disgruntled parent chatter.  You may notice that chatter doesn't come nearly as much from the V starters and their parents in the program.  Do you guys want to be part of the water cooler chatter or is it more important for him to be part of the baseball program?

BTW, he shouldn't have to choose travel over HS... as stated in earlier threads, any decent travel team will know to shut down or become optional when HS ramps up.  As far as having the means,  if he wants it bad enough, he can cut lawns or something to help cover travel team costs.

It is my experience that JV stats quite often mean VERY LITTLE in regards to how that may translate into success at V (particularly when compared to parent perception).  Don't allow yourselves to fall back on his JV stats as a reason he should be owed something at V. 

Best of luck.  Keep us updated.

Iowamom23 posted:

RJM posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

By the time anything happens the season is over. Even if it's half over what do you think the reaction would be to disrupting the season when the coach is suspended or fired?

Two former pro basketball players (dads) told the basketball coach he was out of his mind to cut my son. It didn't change the coach's mind. He wanted players who were going to maximize their talent and be committed to the program. He didn't believe my son could do it playing two other sports. 

It worked out. Having the winter to focus on baseball and physical training made him a better baseball player.

We had a school here that had to give up 16 wins last season for rules' violations. And the high school associations that impose sanctions don't really much care what parents think.

The community cares. You have to decide how important it is to put up a fight. In our case the basketball coach is a friend. When he told me why he cut my son he said it was off the record. ** He trusted me not to make a case of it. I'll bet you plenty of kids get cut around the country for the same reason as my son. But they get a BS response from the coach rather than the truth. Personally, I would rather know the truth.

** I didn't pursued him. I ran into him at the grocery store that night. He started talking before I asked the question.

Coach_Dad posted:

First time posting, long time reader of these forums. I've been using this website and forums for about 5 years now trying to plan / guide my 2018 to be in the best possible position to be a successful baseball player. He's worked hard, off season workouts since 6th grade, has a good bat (told he definitely has a college "swing" -- whatever that means. His off tee VELO his freshman year was metered at 75 mph by University of Michigan during a clinic), good arm and glove. By far not the best kid on the team but definitely no slouch and working on improving his game as much as possible. Has a deep passion and I feel he's one of those players that's a student of the game.  

Unfortunately, 2018 is in a toxic baseball program that includes verbal and mentally abusive staff. And no one wants to say anything about it because they are afraid of how that will affect playing time -- and sadly, we're one of those parents. We've seen retribution many times. HS program does not have a great history, since this coaching staff took over about 6 years ago, of connecting players to good colleges and baseball programs and the coaches do not have a very good reputation among their peers. 

2018 batted over .600 for most of the 2016 season on JV and for some reason was the only soph not pulled up to Varsity at end of the year. 2018 had many conversations with coaches to see what he could so to improve only to get the run around and blown off. We were warned from a couple of parents before his freshman year that coaching staff usually has at least 1-2 kids in "the doghouse" regardless of what they do, and that our kid would most likely be one of those kids. Sure as anything, 2018 has permanent residency in the doghouse. He's been very frustrated over this situation but fights through it and does not give up.

We have never really had the means to get 2018 into travel programs; however, we were told last year that if our 2018 would have any hope getting into a college program (we're looking at junior colleges, only at this point due to 4 year costs) that he needed to get on a travel team this year. He's been very successful in his community athletic league program but I guess that doesn't really hold as much weight as it did when I played community ball 30+ years ago.

Fortunately, 2018 was picked up by a great travel organization and the team is playing up a division (playing "up" an age or two is something we've been doing as much as possible) and there appears to be a potential route to a junior college 2018 has targeted through this organization. Both travel org and HS program will be practicing pretty much at the same times on the same day. Up to this point, 2018 has been to every off-season HS workout program, even taking clinics / camps run by HS coaches to get more face time and display what he can provide to them. Everything seemed pretty cut and dried to us parents: go to the travel practices and catch up with the HS program once tryouts start.

But, after reading the postings in this thread, I'm concerned that if our 2018 chooses travel over HS that it will basically sink him with the HS program for the 2017 season. I'd like to get some input into our situation as it seems unique from what others have been posting. Is it "safe" for 2018 to take a chance on choosing travel over HS practices in our case? And, this is not a case of "daddy goggles"; the situation with coaching staff has been the subject of many conversations with parents and players before and after we got into the program. 

As much as I feel HS baseball should be a HS kid's goal, there are rare cases where it's in the kid's best interest to find another avenue.  And though I feel I don't or can't know enough about this situation to say with confidence what might be the best avenue in this case, it sounds like it just might be.  So, I'll just say this . . . 

For 2018's, this baseball season is really important in terms of getting playing time and exposure to recruiters and scouts.  If my son were in this situation, as been presented here, I'd probably have him wait to see what develops as the season begins.  If he remains "in the dog house" (and my son had an occasion to be there for a short time Jr year, with a travel team coach), then I would have my son simply leave the HS program after giving the beginning of the season a fair effort and if there's no acceptable results, then concentrate on the travel team and development to get as much attention from recruiters and scouts as possible.  I would emphasize to my son to not let the emotional aspect of the situation color the decision and try to treat it in a very business like manner.  If the HS coach doesn't like him and can find a way to work together for son's objectives, then one must move on.  

Coach_Dad posted:

First time posting, long time reader of these forums. I've been using this website and forums for about 5 years now trying to plan / guide my 2018 to be in the best possible position to be a successful baseball player. He's worked hard, off season workouts since 6th grade, has a good bat (told he definitely has a college "swing" -- whatever that means. His off tee VELO his freshman year was metered at 75 mph by University of Michigan during a clinic), good arm and glove. By far not the best kid on the team but definitely no slouch and working on improving his game as much as possible. Has a deep passion and I feel he's one of those players that's a student of the game.  

Unfortunately, 2018 is in a toxic baseball program that includes verbal and mentally abusive staff. And no one wants to say anything about it because they are afraid of how that will affect playing time -- and sadly, we're one of those parents. We've seen retribution many times. HS program does not have a great history, since this coaching staff took over about 6 years ago, of connecting players to good colleges and baseball programs and the coaches do not have a very good reputation among their peers. 

2018 batted over .600 for most of the 2016 season on JV and for some reason was the only soph not pulled up to Varsity at end of the year. 2018 had many conversations with coaches to see what he could so to improve only to get the run around and blown off. We were warned from a couple of parents before his freshman year that coaching staff usually has at least 1-2 kids in "the doghouse" regardless of what they do, and that our kid would most likely be one of those kids. Sure as anything, 2018 has permanent residency in the doghouse. He's been very frustrated over this situation but fights through it and does not give up.

We have never really had the means to get 2018 into travel programs; however, we were told last year that if our 2018 would have any hope getting into a college program (we're looking at junior colleges, only at this point due to 4 year costs) that he needed to get on a travel team this year. He's been very successful in his community athletic league program but I guess that doesn't really hold as much weight as it did when I played community ball 30+ years ago.

Fortunately, 2018 was picked up by a great travel organization and the team is playing up a division (playing "up" an age or two is something we've been doing as much as possible) and there appears to be a potential route to a junior college 2018 has targeted through this organization. Both travel org and HS program will be practicing pretty much at the same times on the same day. Up to this point, 2018 has been to every off-season HS workout program, even taking clinics / camps run by HS coaches to get more face time and display what he can provide to them. Everything seemed pretty cut and dried to us parents: go to the travel practices and catch up with the HS program once tryouts start.

But, after reading the postings in this thread, I'm concerned that if our 2018 chooses travel over HS that it will basically sink him with the HS program for the 2017 season. I'd like to get some input into our situation as it seems unique from what others have been posting. Is it "safe" for 2018 to take a chance on choosing travel over HS practices in our case? And, this is not a case of "daddy goggles"; the situation with coaching staff has been the subject of many conversations with parents and players before and after we got into the program. 

Well I guess I would have a couple of questions.  First, why would the other parents say before freshman year that your kid would likely be in the "doghouse?"  Is there something about the kid's attitude that would put him there? 

Second, I think the "metal abuse" allegations get thrown around a lot more these days.  Most old school, tough coaches would be considered mental abusers these days.  I don't know what is happening at your school, but are you sure they are abusive?  Or are you just hearing from "little Johnny's mommy" about how they mad him "cry?"  My kid has had some tough coaches in the past.  You have to have a thick skin and not let it bother you. 

As for complaining and/or retribution, that is a valid concern.  But you would be surprised how far a complaint can go.  Last year as the season wound down a parent complained to the AD about how "little Johnny" was treated.  The complaint eventually went public via a mass email.  Now the parents had some valid points.  Eventually the coach left for "greener" pastures.  In your case, after you have really looked at the situation and agree that it is in fact abusive, anonymous communication to the AD would be in order - with a simple request that the AD attend workouts/practices/games to see what is going on.  Let it go from there. 

And I feel the frustration of not getting "pulled up."  Happened to my kid after he was hitting .600 plus.  Not a sniff.  He couldn't figure out why we wouldn't get pulled up to a team which had been no-hit several times. 

As for what to attend, I let you know when I figure it out. 

RJM posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

By the time anything happens the season is over. Even if it's half over what do you think the reaction would be to disrupting the season when the coach is suspended or fired?

Two former pro basketball players (dads) told the basketball coach he was out of his mind to cut my son. It didn't change the coach's mind. He wanted players who were going to maximize their talent and be committed to the program. He didn't believe my son could do it playing two other sports. 

It worked out. Having the winter to focus on baseball and physical training made him a better baseball player.

I can't worry about that.  Do the right thing all the time and you'll always be able to look everyone in the eyes.  We had open gym tonight.  We had a player not there.  Some of the kids were upset.  So, I asked them whether any of them had to be there tonight.  They said no.  I responded, "exactly." 

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

Yes but we are talking off season.  That's where the "conflicts" arise. 

Golfman25 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

Yes but we are talking off season.  That's where the "conflicts" arise. 

My son's HS tryouts are 1/16...coach started his pre-workouts on 1/3.  JV goes until mid March, Varsity goes until mid April.

Do you have similar dates?

CaCO3Girl posted:

Golfman25 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

Yes but we are talking off season.  That's where the "conflicts" arise. 

My son's HS tryouts are 1/16...coach started his pre-workouts on 1/3.  JV goes until mid March, Varsity goes until mid April.

Do you have similar dates?

I think Golfman is here in IL with me.  Tryouts start 2/27.  First on contest is usually two weeks after that.  Season ends around 5/20 and State Championship is on 6/10.

BTW our off season lifting/conditioning program started in October, open gym/hitting on the weekends occasionally (when supervision and enough kids are available) through December.  Starting in January, lifting/conditioning in the mornings (5:30am), open gyms start to kick in two mornings a week (5:30am) and hitting on the weekends.

So Golf, what is the coach asking of your son?

Hi All - definitely an interesting question, and we've found the answer can be different coach-to-coach, and year-to-year too.

CaCO - my son does not play football like yours but offseason workouts at his HS started mid-August.

New coach last year, and his comment to my son was..... if we are willing to pay for training, he was all for it.  He wanted son to make his HS training, and also let him know when he had conflicts and his training dates for strength/speed work.  He did not want my son to overtrain (which we appreciated).

My son trains at same outfit as Nuke83s son, and its probably one of the better facilities here in the Atlanta area. This year they opened a facility 3 miles from the HS, and the facility owner offered to partner with the HS coach to help his HS offseason training program.  The coach was leery about losing 'his' offseason time with the kids - even though a number of the kids on the HS team were already working out at the facility.  SMH because ALL of the kids could have benefited and could have taken advantage of folks that specialize in baseball specific training.

Long story short - son does both to get face time with the HS coach, but get real benefits from working with the training facility.  Key is for son to communicate.

Best of luck Golfman

CaCO3Girl posted:

So Golf, what is the coach asking of your son?

It's a battle between travel, HS and MOM (re school work). 

Basically it's 4 nights and one sat/sun for travel - 3 hours a session.  HS is 4 afternoons and 3 mornings a week - 1 to 1.5 hrs. 

Kid wants to be seen as much as possible.  Coach hasn't really said anything (that I'm told), positive or negative.  But I think they are frustrated with his grade level.  And I assume they are letting it show.  There are only 3 kids from his class that work regularly - him and 2 buddies.   

Now, here is how stupid a 3.5 gpa kid is.  Coach asks him if he is coming to the next workout.   There's the opening he needs to open up a dialog, right?  He shrugs and says, "yep."   

"If he remains "in the dog house" (and my son had an occasion to be there for a short time Jr year, with a travel team coach), then I would have my son simply leave the HS program after giving the beginning of the season a fair effort and if there's no acceptable results.."

If the kid continues to play he will run into more bad coaches, yet  he can still learn from bad coaches.... but he can't learn or earn respect by quitting.   I don't know of a single kid my son played with at the college  or pro level that  quit his HS team.  Other coaches and scouts know about the bad coaches and if your son shows he can work with one, he will earn their respect and consideration, in addition to learning a useful life lesson/s. 

presont posted:

 

My son trains at same outfit as Nuke83s son, and its probably one of the better facilities here in the Atlanta area. This year they opened a facility 3 miles from the HS, and the facility owner offered to partner with the HS coach to help his HS offseason training program.  The coach was leery about losing 'his' offseason time with the kids - even though a number of the kids on the HS team were already working out at the facility.  SMH because ALL of the kids could have benefited and could have taken advantage of folks that specialize in baseball specific training.

 

This is the kind of crap that really irritates me.  I really think our HS should partner with a local facility.  They can just do more than a HS coach can in the off season.  It's not about face time with the kids.  It's about making better ballplayers. 

Local facility owner was telling me about back when his kid played at a local high school.  They would open their place on Sunday nights and players would come in for live pitching & hitting.  First weeks of the season, they would hit the ground running having already played several games worth of hitting.  Can't do that in a HS gym. 

My high school program dont allow the players to participate in travel ball during the season but encouraged them to play two sports. Parents have to sign a letter stating that they are not to say anything about how players are coached , required to take weight training, participate in a navel seal  program and a two month baseball conditioning three times a week even though they take weight training and lift every Saturday during the season . Coaches are really tough on the players and  talk lots of smack but if you want to play this sport you grind until you reach your goals. Hope your son don't get discouraged. Look at the bigger picture. 

Hate to say it but he can't do both.  You are begging for an injury.  My advice would be to pick and choose the days with travel and the days with HS.  And while I am ALL for kids communicating with coaches in this case your child is putting his health in jeopardy by not communicating.  I would send a short email to the coach explaining the kids schedule and asking which days are most important to the HS coach. It's entirely possible the HC of the HS is not a bad coach, he's just misinformed.

Grindneverstop posted:

My high school program dont allow the players to participate in travel ball during the season but encouraged them to play two sports. Parents have to sign a letter stating that they are not to say anything about how players are coached , required to take weight training, participate in a navel seal  program and a two month baseball conditioning three times a week even though they take weight training and lift every Saturday during the season . Coaches are really tough on the players and  talk lots of smack but if you want to play this sport you grind until you reach your goals. Hope your son don't get discouraged. Look at the bigger picture. 

How successful is this HS program?  This coaching program sounds egotistical and limiting the upside of projectable baseball players.  How's the moral of the players and how supportive are the parents?

Program very successful.  Produce D1,D2,D3, Juco and MLB. We have lots of players that do move out of the the district to play baseball at another district. Parents are 100% sopportive. I do agree head coach is extreme but tells the players he's preparing them to play at next level. I must say he teaches the players to play the game the right way. Make sure they stay healthy and don't injure themselves. Son don't complain and can never wait for HS baseball to start. 

Golfman25 posted:

This is the kind of crap that really irritates me.  I really think our HS should partner with a local facility.  They can just do more than a HS coach can in the off season.  It's not about face time with the kids.  It's about making better ballplayers. 

Local facility owner was telling me about back when his kid played at a local high school.  They would open their place on Sunday nights and players would come in for live pitching & hitting.  First weeks of the season, they would hit the ground running having already played several games worth of hitting.  Can't do that in a HS gym. 

I agree. I tried to partner with a local strength and conditioning place and got out kids a great discount on  12-week offseason baseball specific program. Very affordable. I hammered their parents about how important it was. And it would allow us to do all baseball skills in the athletic period.

6 kids signed up.....