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How to NOT speak with your son's coach

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
Delicate subject here - but wanted to relate an experience as a coach who is also a parent (me!) and hope someone will learn from it.

Was coaching my younger son's (11U) tournament team this past weekend. We're a very competitive team, have won the Northern California and California State Championships with various organizations. Have also won quite a few other tournaments in the last year. With all 15 kids present, we won another national qualifying tournament this past weekend in Northern California. Everyone played in every game, but not equal time (not possible).

We carry 15 kids, which is a lot for this age, and we have a few basic rules. You MUST play in the local rec. league to be on our team. Everyone must get their schoolwork done, keep family commitments first, and be supportive of their teammates. We also state very clearly that for regular weekend games, we will (and do) play everyone equally with everyone hitting in the lineup, etc... BUT on tournament weekends, we go with the hot hand - the guys who are getting it done. Still, everyone plays in every game.

So in the middle of a close championship game, an otherwise very nice father started to complain at me about his son's playing time.

Rule 1 - BAD timing! (not to mention embarrassing to his son I would guess).

After game, he approached me and began to rip apart his son's main competition on the team for playing time.

Rule 2 - BAD etiquette! Don't rip another kid apart to a coach to promote your own son - thats divisive and not constructive.

He then began to attack my son, his skills and the playing time he gets.

Rule 3 - Attack me, but not my son. My son works hard and tries his best just like anyone else's. He often gets taken out of game first just because he is my son. He definitely gets more "negative" coaching from me than anyone else. I am hard on him - his job is harder than anyone else's because his dad IS the coach.

I pointed out that his son had played a lot in previous tournaments while others had not. Why didn't he complain then if he thought I was so unfair?

Rule 4 - Don't be hypocritical. If you see injustice, don't pounce only when it affects your own son. Its hard to be credible in that instance.

He then asked if his son should quit!

Rule 5 - Don't make a threat to a coach. My answer to him was the same as it would be to our best player's father and that is, "if HE wants to quit, thats HIS decision, but while I don't want him to quit, I will not stop him from doing it." I doubt the kid wants to quit - he's a great kid who tries hard. His father is frustrated and trying to make an impact with that statement.

Most every other family saw the confrontation by this father. I would guess his son was very embarrassed. I feel bad for him (as a father I know how it feels when things don't go the way you wish). My mistake was not making him wait a day or two to talk - would've been a lot less confrontational from his view. He may have gathered his best argument a little better too if he could've thought more about it.

Once, when our older son was very young (age 7), I confronted a coach about playing time. As I look back, I wish I had never done it. I'm embarrased about it now. I never did it again, nor will I. That coach and I are now very good friends and actually coach another team together now of younger kids.

Parents - no matter how upset you are with your son's youth or high school coach - take a deep breath, take a day or two, think about what you'd like to say and if you'd still like to say it (which I doubt you will). If you still do, you'll say it much more carefully and effectively. Better yet, if its really your son who is upset (which I doubt too), then ask him to talk to the coach first. What a great "growing up" experience. What a great reception I'll bet he'll get from nearly any coach.

________________
"The only people I ever felt intimdated by in my whole life were Bob Gibson and my daddy," Dusty Baker.

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W Will1,000+ posts
You make some great points. A lot depends on the situation. But with the climate of youth baseball today there are times when the politic and other stuff become overwhelming. However what may happen in regards to baseball is just a prelude to what will be experienced in the "real world". The kid has to deal with it. I remember my son moaning and groaning to me about something or other in regard to a situation on a team. Inwardly I agreed to a point but after listening I told him I was not the person to tell. Talk to the coach. He will give you an answer. You might not get the answer you like and you might get some fairy tale but you will get an answer. My Dad told me a long time ago "Life is not fair". Get used to it.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
Coach,

With the hand you were dealt, you probably played it as well as possible. 15 players are tough to juggle at that age.

Good advice for folks with players that age. If you do what is best for the team, without overpitching anyone, are successful, ....someone will still find something to complain about, unfortunatley.

Quick story; Chet Lemon, an MLB All-Star, 17 year major leaguer, coaches at Eustis HS about 20 miles west of Orlando. His team won the 2003 Class 3A State Championship in May a year ago. Without a formal complaint filed, he was accused of recruiting by, yes, parents of his own players. Coach Lemon overcame the situation and is leading his team to another great season.IF the team stunk, noone would care if their kid played much.

Success makes you a bigger target. Good luck to your sons.
CallawayCallaway500+ posts
justbaseball

You sound like a very fair coach but sorry, my son wouldn't play for your team. The first question I ask a new team is roster size. It's not only hard on you as the coach, but we parents with better players also get flack from other parents for the additional playing time that our kids get. At this age eleven players is enough. I am assuming of course that most of the kids pitch as well.

Ross.
Last edited by Callaway
CallawayCallaway500+ posts
Will

I'm not sure what your question is. Would you not agree that some players are better than others? I wasn't bragging. I am sorry that you took it that way. I have been in situations where my son is always on the field and it can be uncomfortable and even embarrassing if there are other players, because of inflated rosters, that see very limited time. I don't think that it is fair and I don't like it. I also wouldn't like it if a better player was "riding the pine" simply to provide additional playing time for a lesser player. My point is that roster size is a very important consideration. Period.
Last edited by Callaway
U Underground100+ posts
He obviously never thought about how hard it is to juggle 15 kids into one linuep for 7 innings, not to mention organizing stretches or warm-ups, bringing and hauling the equipment around. Maybe you should handover the lineup card to him for a game, or even the entire coaching job for a game.
At that age most kids aren't even concerned about how much playing time they get, the probably don't even notice, unless they've only been playing one little inning or so the obvious would state. When I was 11 I never cared. I was to focused on winning and having fun. I remember making the HS baseketball team in Grade 9. I knew I wasn't as good as the starting 5 who've been playing Rep ball their whole lives.
I didn't mind being a 2 minute subsitute, it's fun watching better guys play, and it's more fun to win. You can learn by watching better players than you. And when you're a kid you probably won't notice whose better, unless they are indeniably gifted.
Coach maybe ask the complaining dad's kid if he's having fun? Don't mention playing time or anything. If he's having a blast, why change what you've been doing? If kid didn't think he was being treated fair, he would have complained himself.
P P-Dog500+ posts
The good thing about tournament teams is you usually play two games a day. What I did last year with an older team is just institute a rule that every player who shows up will play at least one complete game that day. (Older guys tend to have conflicting obligations. We rarely had all 16 players in uniform on any given day.) That meant that if I had 15 guys there, some would sit an entire game, some would play one complete and also a piece of the other game. But every player knew that they'd play all 7 innings of one game. If I heard that Johhny's Grandma was coming for a game, I'd make sure Johnny played in the game Granny was at. I kept the mid-game substitution down as much as possible because I didn't want the guys to be worrying about getting subbed out if the made an error, struck out, etc.
I know that's an unconventional approach, but I had good players, so the team was pretty successful, and I think it helped the players relax and have fun (new concept...) Of course, the key was that all the players were pretty good, so it's not like I ever put a bunch of mokes out on the field.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
It sounds like you handled the situation right on. I coached alot of AAU and I liked 12 on the roster. This would afford me one sub for each game if someone got sick or hurt or could not make a game. One kid would be the DH. One kid would be the disignated runner for the catcher. One kid would bull pen catch. I would rotate this each game. This way every kid would see what it was like to sit. Everyone would get a chance to dh and run the bags. This way regardless of who was starting everyone had a job each game. It worked for me. Look I am as competitive as anyone I know maybe more. But at these ages kids need to play and they need to learn what its like to come to the park and take on a sub role. If they are not good enough to help you win they shouldnt be on the team in the first place. Just my opinion.
T Tfusa20100+ posts
So help me understand something...At what point in a players baseball life does he start learning the lessons of earning playing time on performance. Of course I am speaking of the above mentioned select team situation. The coach plays everyone and yet the ones that play more are the player that are doing well at that moment. Something that may change in the next game or event.

Everyone participates is a recreational approach. Nothing wrong with that but select baseball is a stage to learn how to earn your job and earn playing time and working for what you get. How many kids as they grow up in baseball, can't handle tryouts or competitive situations because their parents or coaches try to protect them from the failures of the game.

I say if you would not play on the above coaches team ... its because you might be afraid your son would have to share or earn time with another player. Will he be like that when he gets to high school and it's time to tryout..? If you teach him to think that way he will!

Just my opinion!
Last edited by Tfusa20
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
TFusa20

I think the point you make says a lot as to why we hear so much complaining from players and parents at the HS level regarding the coach not being fair, even being corrupt as one poster put it eye. This attitude has now, as you well now, even crept into the realm of college ball.

The kids coming into HS are so programmed to the "everyone plays" bit they have no idea regarding what a try out is-- try out is just that--if you are good enough you make it--if you are not you don't
CallawayCallaway500+ posts
TFusa20
quote:
I say if you would not play on the above coaches team ... its because you might be afraid your son would have to share or earn time with another player. Will he be like that when he gets to high school and it's time to tryout..? If you teach him to think that way he will!
If you are talking about my post then you missed the point entirely. I am not at all afraid of my son "earning" time. He'll hold his own or he won't. If he doesn't then he shouldn't be given playing time simply because he is on an inflated roster.

TRhit
quote:
The kids coming into HS are so programmed to the "everyone plays" bit they have no idea regarding what a try out is-- try out is just that--if you are good enough you make it--if you are not you don't
I agree 100%.

Ross.
AgentDadAgentDad100+ posts
I agree with TFusa20. On a competitive baseball team, there should not be a guaranteed playing time, unless all the players are equal in talent. Kids come up through rec leagues where all kids play the same amount whether they work hard or are less talented or not. At some point and time they must be taught that hardwork and ability are desired traits. After your youth years, you go to work and the talented individuals that work hard get the promotions and are paid more for their efforts. I have seen too many times in today's world that a kid cannot accept that another kid is more talented than they are. This is because of how parents handle their kids failures. Many parents blame others for their kids failures, stating that the coach has favorites. They would do well to teach their kids how to grow from their failures instead of making excuses. Everyone has to deal with failures in life, they do not have to be a negative. You have to turn them into positives, motivators for hard work.

Example of good comments:
"So, you got cut from the team. That's a shame - I think you are a very good ballplayer. If you want to make the team next year, you need to work harder and take advantage of all your chances to show the coach what you can do. He only gets to see you for a short time and you have to make an impression when you get the chance."

Example of how not to handle it:
"That coach is playing favorites. He already knew who he was going to pick before the tryout started. Your wasting your time trying out for that team, he's never going to give you a fair chance. We'll just transfer to another school that will appreciate you."


In the second example, this kid will learn that everytime he is unsuccessful it is because someone is unfair to him. He will learn to quit after each failure, when he should learn (like the first example) that hard work will get you what you want.
Last edited by AgentDad
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
I hadn't realized that this posting had been revived recently, but its interesting reading the comments of late.

Just to clear up a few points about the team I described to begin ths post. I agree that 12 is a much better number, but we carry 15 because we do NOT force the kids to commit to baseball only. Some still play s****r or basketball and come to baseball on about 3/4 of the time. I do not think that I should force an 11-year old kid to commit totally to baseball which is what I would need to have a smaller roster. So, on many/most weekends, we get about 11 or 12 of those 15 players to show up.

Of course, on the weekend I described at the beginning of the post, all 15 showed up. That happens and we're fine with it. So I played all 15 in one way or another in every game, and we still won the tournament.

The basic issue, it seems to me, is that if you join a competitive team (and this one is a good one), then you have to accept what goes with it. We did a good job of explaining, in writing and verbally, what would happen in tournaments in terms of playing time. 14 of the 15 parents have accepted that. This parent even seems to accept it when his son is playing a lot - just not when he's on the bench a lot.

And as a final note, here we are about a month later and the parent has not talked to me since. Too bad - nice son. I only hope that the parent cools down before his son gets to a really competitive situation in HS. If not, he's going to go crazy.
Last edited by justbaseball
P Pitchinside100+ posts
Too many issues envolved....

When you're talking about tournament/ select teams where the money envolved is pretty big, the parent wants "value" for the expense. I can understand that. 15 players isn't a bad number for a team that players may not show up for. I understand that.

What puzzles me is, why did this parent pay to be on the team? Because that's what it is.

When I was coaching (many moons ago) one of my parents explained playing time to me! She asked me to think about a school play in which it wasn't the best voice or the best actor who got the role, it was the kid who showed up all the time, who worked harder than most, or the kid who's parents gave "donations" to the program.

She asked me to consider what type of product were we trying to produce? Was this the final product, or was the final product to be made several years later, and this is a preperatory stage?

Kind of made sence to her and me. By the way, I was doing it wrong. I admitted it, and changed my perspective.
P P-Dog500+ posts
I don't know what "rec leagues" you guys are referring to, but when my kids were in Little League (not that long ago) the better players all got about twice the playing time that the other kids did. Everybody played in every game, but the minimum playing time was 1 at bat and 2 innings per game. Only the studs played full time. My boys played full time under that system, but I was quite aware of the kids who didn't - and the effect it had on them. No, they didn't go home vowing to improve, and for the most part they didn't blame their coaches. What they did was move on to a different activity. S****r, Nintendo, Lacrosse, wherever they got a feeling that they were wanted. They're not stupid.
As for "earning" playing time - that's the reality on the high school team - has to be, because there's only one team. And I think the teenagers understand how it works (probably better than their parents.) It's a good thing, and a valuable lesson for life.
But if I'm organizing a team for the rest of the year, my goal is going to be to recruit a reasonable number of players of roughly equal ability, and arrange for them to play against teams of similar (or a little better) ability. And if all my players have similar skill levels I can play them all - which is what I want to do. I don't need to recruit some stud pitcher from the next county so "I" can win the XYZ world series. My job (as I see it) is to give my players an opportunity to play competitive baseball. All of them. So I organize a team in such a way that I can do that. If I have a player who's sitting on the bench a lot of the time I've screwed up.
Just a practical point: I disagree with the philosophy that a coach who gets every player into every game is necessarily doing anything beneficial for his subs. One at bat and/or an inning or two in the outfield isn't a reward - it's torture (and a really hard road to improvement.) I think it's better to play the kid a full seven innings here and there (and let him know which games) instead of spreading them out over four or five games.
Just my 2 cents worth.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
P-DOG

Only one problem with what you say--Little League Baseball is set up in "win win" format--why else their rules about playing outside-- why else the playoff system to get to Williamsport---why else the LL WS on National TV

I also believe that most kids know their spot in the team food chain--they know the good players from the bad and most can accept the 2 innings of play--it is the parents that cannot accept it
Last edited by TRhit
P Pitchinside100+ posts
I agree P-Dog... I suppose it depends upon what product you intend to produce.

I do have to say one more thing. I noticed a long time ago, that the kids who got the playing time, and were selected to the All-star teams, were the same kids who showed up early or stayed late and hit or played catch with their parents!

I suppose that if the kid works on whatever, math, english etc. with their parents, and the parents take the time to help and work with their kids, the kid will have a higher percentage success.

Just a thought.

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