How to respectfully talk to a High School coach?

Don't say anything.  You can't make changes in one practice.  Change does not feel comfortable and it will take time before it does.  Continue to work on the things the coach is asking him to do.  

Classic conundrum: a player has worked with a hitting instructor and does things as taught and is effective and comfortable, then a well-meaning coach comes along and wants to change things. For a young player, it is an uncomfortable position to be in at best. At worst it makes things much worse, is frustrating, and everyone involved gets emotional. Good luck!

Goin_yard posted:

Don't say anything.  You can't make changes in one practice.  Change does not feel comfortable and it will take time before it does.  Continue to work on the things the coach is asking him to do.  

Instead of hitting well he hit 5 pop-ups.  Instead of having an effective pick off move he threw it about 6 feet over the first basemen's head.  For lack of a better word the changes have made him an ineffective player.  If he doesn't say anything or at least ask for clarification won't he just continue to be ineffective?

It's between the player and the coach.  If your son is asking for advice, tell him to stick with it for awhile.  Change is hard.

Any adjustment to swing, throwing mechanics or running is going to feel different, probably even awkward initially.  You referenced that the coaches have built a good program that has churned out next level guys over the years so they must be doing something right.  I would have your son listen and work to make the adjustments the coaches are implementing and see if things start feeling more fluid after a few weeks. 
After a few weeks, if the adjustments in the swing are not producing the type of results your son is wanting, have him circle back with the coach during BP and ask "Coach, I've been working on those adjustments you wanted me to make but something just doesn't feel right, what are you seeing?"  If he has this conversation in the cage, he'll be talking hitting with the coach like ballplayers do when they want help.  During tryouts, my guess is they saw some raw talent that they could start molding so it looks like the process has started. 

Go44dad posted:

It's between the player and the coach.  If your son is asking for advice, tell him to stick with it for awhile.  Change is hard.

agreed.  Change takes time.  Its possible the coach is giving him very good advice, but his body is taking time to adjust.  The best thing he could do at this point is stick with it for a while.  Heck even embrace it. Ask another player to stick around with him after practice so he can work the kinks out.  Even ask the coach if he can stay around for another few minutes to help him out.

Nothing wrong with your son saying, "I had some trouble with the changes you wanted me to make yesterday coach.  When you have time can we go over them again?"

Mechanical changes take time.  Most coaches are aware of this.  It's a process, you can't look at the first day and expect the finished product.

WIth that in mind, if a player doesn't understand instruction - or is having bad results, he should discuss it with the coach.  The coach wants his players to get better. That usually requires effort from both sides.

I would suggest that he, maybe indirectly, determine what improvement the coaches are hoping to achieve and why certain mechanics are thought to be superior (why do they prefer a certain pick off move).  These may be tweaks or they may be the beginning of some larger picture (maybe trying to shorten the swing based on the pitching faced at the varsity level).  The varsity coach is not too terribly interested in immediate production at the JV level, but rather wants to help develop kids so they contribute to varsity wins.

He can have a conversation about the results he is getting (does the coach expect there to be some drop off as the changes are made) or discuss any issues he is having with the execution of any changes.  If it simply feels weird, then he needs to keep at it.  If he recognizes a certain change is hampering him (for example - maybe standing up straighter while batting requires him to then work out a slightly different stride to accommodate the change).  He probably understands the changes the coach gave him, but perhaps he needs a little help some other aspects that may get thrown off.  Some kids can take one change and sort of make it fit (if told to stand up straighter, they will automatically make adjustments to stride), whereas others might need a little help with the secondary adjustments.

Change is hard. Good coaches understand that. What works for you in BP and against average pitching for your level might not be the best destination for you in a couple of years. Do you know how many HS All Americans who put up ridiculous numbers in HS are in the exact situation day 1 in college? That swing that dropped bombs in HS will not produce against their level of competition. How do they know that? Maybe they have years of experience to back it up and hundreds of players experience as well?

Do you think the coaches want your son to fail? They are only tweeking him to make him better. What you need to do is tell your son to be patient and to work hard. If the player is coachable and willing to make adjustments these things work out in the end. What typically happens is the player reaches a place where he adjusts and the coaches reach a point where they do as well. They find that "well let's let him do that if it works for him but he has to do this to be the player he can be."

When your new to a program of course they are going to make some adjustments with you. They are going to see how you handle those adjustments and how coachable you are. They are going to evaluate it and it all will smooth out over time. If the player resists the change and develops a negative attitude because in his mind they are holding him back, hurting him, then it rarely if ever ends well. Imagine if every player said "Coach I have always done it like this and this is how I am most comfortable." And then the coaches just said "Ok if that's how you want to do it fine." Is there any coaching going on? Is there any development going on? What good is the experience and ability of the coaching staff if they are not going to be trusted to coach and develop the players?

Tell your son to relax and let the coaches coach him and develop him. Tell him they are there to help him be the best player he can be and if they are teaching him something new to embrace it. Tell him he might not feel like he is as good doing it their way but to give it time and buy in. Coachable kids get better. Uncoachable kids are as good as they are ever going to be.

I guess my thought as a coach/parent is that I always try to communicate the "why" in any suggestion I make. I think a kid can have a conversation with a coach/teacher/parent if he starts with a sincere expression of trying to understand what is being asked/taught and WHY it's being suggested to help understand the bigger picture. The adult may not be open to that conversation, but if he/she is secure in themselves they won't mind a sincere, respectful dialogue. Ya think this kind of thing might come up in the a real job in the workplace, and the experience of having these conversations might help? Learning more than just baseball here! 

You talk to a coach respectfully the same as you should talk to everyone respectfully.

Coach_May posted:

Change is hard. Good coaches understand that. What works for you in BP and against average pitching for your level might not be the best destination for you in a couple of years. Do you know how many HS All Americans who put up ridiculous numbers in HS are in the exact situation day 1 in college? That swing that dropped bombs in HS will not produce against their level of competition. How do they know that? Maybe they have years of experience to back it up and hundreds of players experience as well?

Do you think the coaches want your son to fail? They are only tweeking him to make him better. What you need to do is tell your son to be patient and to work hard. If the player is coachable and willing to make adjustments these things work out in the end. What typically happens is the player reaches a place where he adjusts and the coaches reach a point where they do as well. They find that "well let's let him do that if it works for him but he has to do this to be the player he can be."

When your new to a program of course they are going to make some adjustments with you. They are going to see how you handle those adjustments and how coachable you are. They are going to evaluate it and it all will smooth out over time. If the player resists the change and develops a negative attitude because in his mind they are holding him back, hurting him, then it rarely if ever ends well. Imagine if every player said "Coach I have always done it like this and this is how I am most comfortable." And then the coaches just said "Ok if that's how you want to do it fine." Is there any coaching going on? Is there any development going on? What good is the experience and ability of the coaching staff if they are not going to be trusted to coach and develop the players?

Tell your son to relax and let the coaches coach him and develop him. Tell him they are there to help him be the best player he can be and if they are teaching him something new to embrace it. Tell him he might not feel like he is as good doing it their way but to give it time and buy in. Coachable kids get better. Uncoachable kids are as good as they are ever going to be.

 

I love this response. Very well said.

Totally understand your son's challenge and frustration.  I think a respectful "why" are you asking me to make these changes is in order.  Blindly following the coaches suggestion does not give your son purpose.  He needs to understand what the end goal is for the changes and then the changes may make more sense.  For example,  is he bringing his feet closer in the box because he wants to add an element of power to his swing and feels your son will not suffer in his ability to make contact?  So, I think a respectful "yes sir, I understand what you are asking me to do.  Let's try it.   Can you help me understand why this change is going to help me and the team". 

JMO.

My son was all conference soph year. He spent the winter of junior year changing his swing. It took him a month to feel comfortable with it. It doesn't happen in a day. The coach knows it.

Tough spot. If you are a stud you can say something but if  you are middle of the pack or even bottom third it is not easy to reject advice.

If you reject a coaches advice you better rake and the higher you get ( hs, college or pro) the more true that becomes.

Lots of good tips... curious, does he get a lot of outside instruction and, if so, is there conflict in teaches?  This is a piece of the equation that requires consideration.

This is what my son went through his soph JV year. Was offensive MVP freshman year, was cut after JV year. The difference between the years were coaches offering tips like swing down, keep the ball out of the air, widen your stance, keep your hands back, etc. They did this IN season. My son tried to follow their advice but failed. He finally spoke up but by then he was labelled un-coachable or just another player who washed out at the next level.

Lots of good tips... curious, does he get a lot of outside instruction and, if so, is there conflict in teaches?  This is a piece of the equation that requires consideration.

Any Coach worth his salt is going to "Jimmy let's talk about your move to first." "Now because of that, what I have found is this." "Let's work on a few things and see if we can get there."

"Timmy your swing is long. Here let me show you what I am talking about. Now this is where we want to go. And this is why we want to get there. And this is how were going to get there."

Your not coaching if your not coaching. Telling someone to do something without explaining why, what and how is not coaching.

I would be curious how a conversation about changing a move to first and especially a swing without bringing into the conversation "This is what your doing that we need to change"- "This is why we are going to change it" - "This is how we are going to change it" - "This is what is going on when you don't change it" - "This is the positive result of changing it."

Hey kid this is how we want you to throw over. Now just do it. - Hey kid this is how we want you to swing a bat.

IF - your son is being told to do things and not Coached to do things - Yes, have him respectfully enquire so he can know. If he is simply being Coached tell him to be coachable.

cabbagedad posted:

Lots of good tips... curious, does he get a lot of outside instruction and, if so, is there conflict in teaches?  This is a piece of the equation that requires consideration.

Prior to the JV tryouts he was doing winter workouts with his travel team.  They did a lot of cage work and his coaches were happy with this swing, supposedly had the best swing on the team.  I think that was a sense of pride for my son, and then he was told to change it. 

My advice to him before he left for school today was to ask for clarification.  There is no way your coach wants you to hit standing completely straight, you heard that wrong.  Ask if your pick off move is illegal for high school, it's possible.  Above all don't be that kid that thinks he knows better than the coach!  We will talk later.

Then I posted this question as soon as I got to work because what the heck do I know about baseball?

I feel that if you don't understand something at school, at work, or on a team, you should ask for clarification in a respectful manner.  There is nothing wrong with asking the coach to help you understand, because you are feeling uncomfortable.  The key is how you do it...

Cherokeeplayer posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Lots of good tips... curious, does he get a lot of outside instruction and, if so, is there conflict in teaches?  This is a piece of the equation that requires consideration.

Prior to the JV tryouts he was doing winter workouts with his travel team.  They did a lot of cage work and his coaches were happy with this swing, supposedly had the best swing on the team.  I think that was a sense of pride for my son, and then he was told to change it. 

My advice to him before he left for school today was to ask for clarification.  There is no way your coach wants you to hit standing completely straight, you heard that wrong.  Ask if your pick off move is illegal for high school, it's possible.  Above all don't be that kid that thinks he knows better than the coach!  We will talk later.

Then I posted this question as soon as I got to work because what the heck do I know about baseball?

Then I suggest he give it a little bit of time so that he can gain a better understanding of the reason behind the teaches and the methods and personalities of the coaches.  I suspect it won't be long before he knows better what to ask and how.   Respectful open dialog will likely be easier to have when sincere efforts are being made to learn what is being taught and genuine questions are being asked.  

Coach May, of course, is 100% right in the way coaching should happen but I know it doesn't always happen that way.  And sometimes it just doesn't seem like it's happening that way until you figure out what's behind it.  Also, keep in mind that, for some aspects of the game, there are more than one "right" ways to accomplish things... more than one successful philosophies.  Most coaches are aware and open to a player explaining that he has been taught "A" and is struggling with "B".  Most have no issue of explaining.  A few may, but let's hold off on that conversation until it is clearly necessary.

Coach_May posted:

Change is hard. Good coaches understand that. What works for you in BP and against average pitching for your level might not be the best destination for you in a couple of years. Do you know how many HS All Americans who put up ridiculous numbers in HS are in the exact situation day 1 in college? That swing that dropped bombs in HS will not produce against their level of competition. How do they know that? Maybe they have years of experience to back it up and hundreds of players experience as well?

Do you think the coaches want your son to fail? They are only tweeking him to make him better. What you need to do is tell your son to be patient and to work hard. If the player is coachable and willing to make adjustments these things work out in the end. What typically happens is the player reaches a place where he adjusts and the coaches reach a point where they do as well. They find that "well let's let him do that if it works for him but he has to do this to be the player he can be."

When your new to a program of course they are going to make some adjustments with you. They are going to see how you handle those adjustments and how coachable you are. They are going to evaluate it and it all will smooth out over time. If the player resists the change and develops a negative attitude because in his mind they are holding him back, hurting him, then it rarely if ever ends well. Imagine if every player said "Coach I have always done it like this and this is how I am most comfortable." And then the coaches just said "Ok if that's how you want to do it fine." Is there any coaching going on? Is there any development going on? What good is the experience and ability of the coaching staff if they are not going to be trusted to coach and develop the players?

Tell your son to relax and let the coaches coach him and develop him. Tell him they are there to help him be the best player he can be and if they are teaching him something new to embrace it. Tell him he might not feel like he is as good doing it their way but to give it time and buy in. Coachable kids get better. Uncoachable kids are as good as they are ever going to be.

 

+1

A player has to be open and willing to receive the information.  Perspective is everything.  It would be a very unique situation for a player to get away with any kind of "why" questions.    

Absolutely a player has to be open to receiving the information, and respect the position of coach. But, hard as it is to imagine, the coach might not be correct, or may be communicating the information in a confusing way. In which case, I would expect a how/why question to be asked respectfully in order to receive the information clearly. 

Bottom line is not all coaches are equal. Some HS coaches are very knowledgeable and continue to learn themselves how to best help players. Some are convinced they learned everything they need to know by what they learned in HS 40 years ago. Most are concerned with winning games, and not always individual player development so there are sometimes conflicts of interest there. Asking "why" helps put all of that into perspective and makes sure everyone is on the same page. 

The player doesn't have to like the change the coach is suggesting, but if he understands why, it helps him buy in and be more committed to the objective. Cal Ripken has said this in his book, The Ripken Way - 

"*Explain Why: A teacher who cannot explain why is not truly teaching. Lessons that make sense will stick with players."

I don't believe anyone has mentioned video.  Have you done an actual video analysis of his mechanics?  Do you know exactly what the coach wants him to correct and why?  There are some good coaches out there.  There are many more bad coaches out there.  There is ZERO reason to automatically trust the coach and let him play with your son's mechanics.  That type of trust is earned.  And having a successful program is NO indication of the coaches instructional ability.  It may be but it may just be a big school with lots of talent I wouldn't know.  So long story short you have to do some fact gathering first to try and determine if the coach is right or wrong.  That will dictate the tenor of any further communication.

If playing high school ball is something you are willing to do without, then by all means bring out the video (shot by academy/private instructor/etc.) and make some notes for your kid to take back to the coach and explain why the kid's way is the "right way" and why coach is "wrong"- the kid will summarily be offered the "right way" on how to leave the building.  I suspect the coach gets to set the tenor of any communication and the kid needs to adapt, or leave the program.

Video can help in understanding and a good instructor may help in understanding the changes, but please don't go back to the coach and attempt to argue that the video proves him wrong.  If the kid is that good and the coach is that bad, then maybe the kid doesn't need to be there.  If the coach is receptive to the kid throwing video in his face, then he is not really a coach to begin with.

No offense to the OP, but he portrays himself as not having a firm grasp of the changes being discussed and is in no position to make an analysis.  That leaves some third party to analyze - that approach will get you dismissed from the team around these parts.

As a baseball player you got to be able to make adjustments in practice and in the game. Don't be afraid to try something different. It's not how you start but how you finish. Son went through adjustments when he went to middle, and high school.  When he goes to college more will come.  Son got frustrated with the process too but turned out to be an excellent ball players.  He can talk to the coach if he want to but understand sometimes it's not what you say it's how you say it. Trust the process!!

2017 is correct, baseball wasn't my sport, no clue.

Update from son is that the JV coach had some more words of wisdom on base running and catching.  He is not usually the kid who has a problem with something new so I delved deeper.  I told him to talk to the Varsity guys and maybe they could put it into better words for him.  Varsity guys pretty much said JV coach is an idiot, just wait until you get to Varsity, that's where the real training happens.

yesterdays lessons were "while catching an inside pitch turn your hand this way", my kid did and got his wrist smashed. Varsity D1 commit said "Oh dear God he's trying to teach that, no, if you do it that way you will get your hand or wrist broken"....son figured that out.  Baserunning he showed them some kid of question mark run, again, Varsity guys said if you do it that way you will fall down...and JV coach did in fact nearly fall down while trying to teach it that way.

Son gets the impression JV coach is the JV hazing ritual and he needs to do what he can to listen but also not get hurt and pray he gets out of JV without serious injury.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

If playing high school ball is something you are willing to do without, then by all means bring out the video (shot by academy/private instructor/etc.) and make some notes for your kid to take back to the coach and explain why the kid's way is the "right way" and why coach is "wrong"- the kid will summarily be offered the "right way" on how to leave the building.  I suspect the coach gets to set the tenor of any communication and the kid needs to adapt, or leave the program.

Video can help in understanding and a good instructor may help in understanding the changes, but please don't go back to the coach and attempt to argue that the video proves him wrong.  If the kid is that good and the coach is that bad, then maybe the kid doesn't need to be there.  If the coach is receptive to the kid throwing video in his face, then he is not really a coach to begin with.

No offense to the OP, but he portrays himself as not having a firm grasp of the changes being discussed and is in no position to make an analysis.  That leaves some third party to analyze - that approach will get you dismissed from the team around these parts.

See this is how things get started on here...  What I was asking is if he has done video, then I asked if he understands what the coach wants and why.  The thought being to do your own analysis to see if the coach has a point.  I actually agree with you that the OP doesn't really seem sure of what the coach is trying to accomplish, thus the suggestion.  Nobody suggested throwing video in the coaches face and nobody mentioned anything about travel ball or coaches.

"So long story short you have to do some fact gathering first to try and determine if the coach is right or wrong.  That will dictate the tenor of any further communication."

Did you completely brush over what I said?  As you can plainly see my suggestion was he get the facts before doing anything rash.  I just don't see how you take my post and run with it in the direction you did.  That is what causes so many arguments on here.  And causes people to just go away.  I have pretty thick skin however so I am not so easily dismissed but others just decide the site is not worth their time and aggravation.

"So long story short you have to do some fact gathering first to try and determine if the coach is right or wrong.  That will dictate the tenor of any further communication."

Did you completely brush over what I said?  As you can plainly see my suggestion was he get the facts before doing anything rash.  I just don't see how you take my post and run with it in the direction you did.  That is what causes so many arguments on here.  And causes people to just go away.  I have pretty thick skin however so I am not so easily dismissed but others just decide the site is not worth their time and aggravation.

Let me see - you mentioned ZERO reason to trust the coach (in other words, doubt the coach until somehow you determine that you no longer have to) and then state that your video analysis will "dictate the tenor of any further communication" once you decide whether the coach is right or wrong.  In my world, the coach gets to dictate the tenor.  You postulate that the parent/kid comb, maybe in partnership with some private coach, should make an assessment of the coach based on whatever litmus test you decide upon (your definition of "correct" - as there is often no consensus)   Please correct me if I am wrong, but you are basically saying the coach should be put on the defensive and everyone on the team who has received recommended changes should seek some third party validation before proceeding.  In some strange situations, that might work, but for the vast majority of high school programs, the coach will have zero patience for some kid who says they will get back with him on the appropriateness of the suggested changes - let's go to the video first!

What if, during a game, the coach signals for the kid to steal.  The kid, using his own book of wisdom, decides that attempting a steal is not ideal and signals back that he is staying put.  To most everyone, that would sound crazy.  Telling a parent that the high school coach needs to earn the family's trust - after the kid make the team - is not far behind.  If you have so littel trust in the coach, don't let your kid go out for the team.  There are lots of ways to discuss the changes and their effects on current mechanics, but throwing out phrases likes "zero trust' and "dictate tenor" will not serve the kid well.

I am a very logical person and your comment states that you should not let a coach play with your son's mechanics until such changes are signed off on the kid's end (where in the subject case could only be accomplished through some third party instructor).  If you said something along the lines of "utilizing video to understand current and recommended mechanics", I would not have said a word.  When you strongly recommend that the coach should be doubted until such time as you choose not to, then I do have a problem as that approach will get kids kicked out of programs.

 PS - could not help but point out language usage "facts" and "rash".  In much of baseball, there are no hard and fast "facts" and coaches are seldom "rash".  

2017LHPscrewball posted:

"So long story short you have to do some fact gathering first to try and determine if the coach is right or wrong.  That will dictate the tenor of any further communication."

Did you completely brush over what I said?  As you can plainly see my suggestion was he get the facts before doing anything rash.  I just don't see how you take my post and run with it in the direction you did.  That is what causes so many arguments on here.  And causes people to just go away.  I have pretty thick skin however so I am not so easily dismissed but others just decide the site is not worth their time and aggravation.

Let me see - you mentioned ZERO reason to trust the coach (in other words, doubt the coach until somehow you determine that you no longer have to) and then state that your video analysis will "dictate the tenor of any further communication" once you decide whether the coach is right or wrong.  In my world, the coach gets to dictate the tenor.  You postulate that the parent/kid comb, maybe in partnership with some private coach, should make an assessment of the coach based on whatever litmus test you decide upon (your definition of "correct" - as there is often no consensus)   Please correct me if I am wrong, but you are basically saying the coach should be put on the defensive and everyone on the team who has received recommended changes should seek some third party validation before proceeding.  In some strange situations, that might work, but for the vast majority of high school programs, the coach will have zero patience for some kid who says they will get back with him on the appropriateness of the suggested changes - let's go to the video first!

What if, during a game, the coach signals for the kid to steal.  The kid, using his own book of wisdom, decides that attempting a steal is not ideal and signals back that he is staying put.  To most everyone, that would sound crazy.  Telling a parent that the high school coach needs to earn the family's trust - after the kid make the team - is not far behind.  If you have so littel trust in the coach, don't let your kid go out for the team.  There are lots of ways to discuss the changes and their effects on current mechanics, but throwing out phrases likes "zero trust' and "dictate tenor" will not serve the kid well.

I am a very logical person and your comment states that you should not let a coach play with your son's mechanics until such changes are signed off on the kid's end (where in the subject case could only be accomplished through some third party instructor).  If you said something along the lines of "utilizing video to understand current and recommended mechanics", I would not have said a word.  When you strongly recommend that the coach should be doubted until such time as you choose not to, then I do have a problem as that approach will get kids kicked out of programs.

 PS - could not help but point out language usage "facts" and "rash".  In much of baseball, there are no hard and fast "facts" and coaches are seldom "rash".  

Let me see, oh thats right I still haven't said a word about travel coaches and you keep putting that out there.  And yes blind faith in ANY coach is just plain stupid.  Trust but verify.  Now there is always a value judgement as well that goes without saying.  Take football in my case.  I simply don't know much about it from a fundamentals standpoint.  I don't question what they tell my son to do with his hands or feet etc.  First off I am not in a position of expertise to critique that anyway.  Second the coach is legendary and has the record to back it up.  Does that mean he is always right?  Probably not but I simply make the choice to leave it to him and that makes my life simple.  But baseball is much more complicated.  One little thing can change your results for better or worse.  You have to be very careful who you trust.  And I coached a long time and have first hand knowledge of some very good coaches and some very bad coaches and most are of course somewhere between.  I can tell you one thing when I was a young coach I was awful.  I didn't realize that at the time of course.  I did my best and my heart was in the right place.  Nobody is saying they are awful people just may not be right!  High School coaches are not the almighty.  And I am still in the schools and close to the sports scene and I see up close that coaches (generally I understand not all) are not as dedicated as they used to be.  There are fewer and fewer who just live for it the way we used to.  For some it almost just seems like something to do.  And they don't want to listen to anyone.  I used to go out with the older coaches and college coaches and just soak up everything they said.  Mostly kept my mouth shut and my ears open.  Thats not the way it is anymore.  Yes I am sounding old but its true.  So yes I stand by my comment that trust is earned and I definitely advise anyone to verify what the coach says is true.  But at no time did I encourage OP or anyone else to be combative with coach, throw film in his face or get any travel coach involved.  

P.S.  "Please correct me if I am wrong, but you are basically saying the coach should be put on the defensive and everyone on the team who has received recommended changes should seek some third party validation before proceeding." - I am correcting you, you are wrong.

2020DAD - In my book, there is a difference between ZERO TRUST and trust but verify.  I have much less of an issue with the latter.  As for determining if changes are right or wrong, I can only assume you a defaulting to an "expert" or someone very knowledgeable (like yourself), but in most cases the parent will not have that level of knowledge and therefore I have to default to a third party outside of the high school program (thus the need for instructor/travel coach in my response).  It would be great if every kid had a parent like yourself that had a comprehensive grasp on the correct mechanics for your son and how you son executes, but I suspect that is a small minority of the population playing high school ball.  My son's pitching mechanics left me in the dust long ago.  I still like to discuss with him and listen to him try to explain to me how things are working.  I may have a somewhat slanted view as I feel our high school coaches are quite solid and they have helped my son develop a sense of self such that current discussions on any suggested changes/tweaks are simply opportunities for my son to experiment and possibly improve - lots of back and forth on how things are working.

You sound as though you may have more direct knowledge of high school coaches in general and so your "trust but verify" comment is excellent advice.

At my son's high school, there was not "verifying" what the coach said is good or not good. You either did it his way, or you took the highway right off of the team.  Although what the coach taught was not always conducive to the best way for son's success, i.e. hit more home runs, more doubles, etc., coach had a way he wanted Ryan to hit, and you did it his way, or you didn't play PERIOD.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

2020DAD - In my book, there is a difference between ZERO TRUST and trust but verify.  I have much less of an issue with the latter.  As for determining if changes are right or wrong, I can only assume you a defaulting to an "expert" or someone very knowledgeable (like yourself), but in most cases the parent will not have that level of knowledge and therefore I have to default to a third party outside of the high school program (thus the need for instructor/travel coach in my response).  It would be great if every kid had a parent like yourself that had a comprehensive grasp on the correct mechanics for your son and how you son executes, but I suspect that is a small minority of the population playing high school ball.  My son's pitching mechanics left me in the dust long ago.  I still like to discuss with him and listen to him try to explain to me how things are working.  I may have a somewhat slanted view as I feel our high school coaches are quite solid and they have helped my son develop a sense of self such that current discussions on any suggested changes/tweaks are simply opportunities for my son to experiment and possibly improve - lots of back and forth on how things are working.

You sound as though you may have more direct knowledge of high school coaches in general and so your "trust but verify" comment is excellent advice.

I love when we can find common ground.  Makes it all worth while!  And yes knowing what you DON'T know is the key.  Like I say my football default is just trust - I don't even verify!  The amount of time it would take for me to get to a level of expertise regarding football and thus be able to question what the coach does or doesn't know would be inhibitive.  And thank you for your kinder tone.  I apologize for my tone getting harsher than it needed to be.  When I say "zero reason to automatically trust" I am just leery cause I have seen way too many coaches - including me as a rookie coach - who with well intentions just don't know what they are talking about.  And for the record I put travel coaches in the same category.  Some good, some bad.  Our kids have such high hopes and dreams.  I went to college specifically cause I wanted to be a basketball coach.  That was my first love.  The love of baseball is truly my son's not my own.   I see how very much he wants to 'make it'.  Before I put his hopes and dreams at risk I just want to know the instructor (whoever it is) is on the right track.  Not to play 'holier than thou' but I always as a coach had an open door policy.  And I am very conversive with my players not dictatorial. Always look to build concensus.  I just expect the same when the shoe is on the other foot.

rynoattack posted:

At my son's high school, there was not "verifying" what the coach said is good or not good. You either did it his way, or you took the highway right off of the team.  Although what the coach taught was not always conducive to the best way for son's success, i.e. hit more home runs, more doubles, etc., coach had a way he wanted Ryan to hit, and you did it his way, or you didn't play PERIOD.

Well in this case the highway wold be just fine.  There are other options today.  If you are dealing with someone so closed minded why would you want to be there?  Especially today where high school baseball is not heavily scouted and travel ball really is more of the impetus for scholarships.  Its a choice.  If you are happy with that then it is a great situation.  If you are not and you choose the highway then that is what is great for you.  In the immortal words of Led Zeppelin...  "there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on"

For what it's worth, these kinds of issues happen at ALL levels of baseball and my 2010 son has experienced such issues at all levels (except MLB, which I wouldn't mind him having those issues there ).   I've seen poor coaching at the MiLB affect a whole team's performance.  And there's not much a player can do about a coach's coaching to stay on the team.   You know the saying that's often thrown around here . . . "control what you can control" does apply in such situations.  Sometimes it means while trying to comply with the coach, one has to do things away from the team often with outside professional instruction to achieve desired improvements.  In all cases, it's a tough situation.

I assume most communities have kind of a group of baseball coaches. We do and son has worked with many individuals over the years who are regarded as leaders in that baseball community. He's always worked hard for them and learned from them, so they are invested in his success.

When a new coach tries to tell him something to do different, he tries to absorb it, and then goes to his mentors that he has learned to trust over many years, and says "hey, they want me to try this. What do you think, can you help me?"

And if his mentor says "no way, that's bad" he gets their input on how to handle it, which sometimes is as easy as saying to the HS varsity coach--okay, I see what you're trying to get me to do. Coach X (who was HS varsity coaches college coach) suggested this. What do you think?"

We're lucky. Most of our coaches really are working together to help kids. And those who don't have the greatest skills are smart enough to know who does, and to listen to them. Sort of coaches for the coaches.

How many players skip HS baseball because "they don't agree" with the coaching and move on to the next level? I'm sure it has happened but I have never seen it.

The cream rises to the top. Production will win out. The ability to deal with adversity, change, poor coaching, no coaching, etc is all part of the ride. 

Every level your player moves up to your input and influence decreases. If your lucky enough to watch your kid play long enough make no mistake. There will come a time when you will become nothing more than a spectator a fan a supporter. 

Of course get your son the best instruction and coaching you can. And one day if your fortunate you will turn him over to a staff that gets paid to win. And he will do it the way they say do it. And you will understand what I'm talking about.

The player will either sink or swim. He will either have the tools both physically and mentally to positively navigate through the muck. Or he won't. 

If you can play, if your mentally tough, you will be fine. My goal? Don't mess up a stud, assist him. Coach the hel out of the rest and enjoy each day.