How to score this?

A strikeout (for sure) and (probably) E2 or (less likely) WP. I could also imagine an E3. But I could be wrong. Umpires don't keep score.

bballforever,
The forum called "Statistics & Scorekeeping" on this site is an excellent source of info regarding questions like the one you posed. Check it out.

3fingeredglove is a good resource for all things scoring.....if I had to hazard a guess, its a K for the pitcher in all three instances....and a E2 for catcher....

hopefully 3FG will chime in or as said above, you could post in the scoring forum...

I'll take a shot...

Pitcher gets credit for a strike out. You then score the "drop" like you would any other advance. It could be WP, PB, E-2, E-3 etc allowing the runner to get to first. In the situations described, its most likely an E-2. Apply the "could the play be made with ordinary effort" assessment.

Clearly if the batter strikes out and achieves first base, you have to pick one of the above.

Earned runs are calculated as in any other situation. If it's a WP and the runner eventually scores, it's earned. Otherwise, count it as an out and that runner never reaching base when computing earned runs.

Scorekeepers never umpire either, although we like to help from a fair distance. :-)

The primary source for rules related to scoring is Rule 10 of the OBR.

The batter becomes a batter/runner when the third strike is not legally caught. (6.09b) That can happen either because a)the pitch touched the ground before the catcher gloved and controlled the ball, or b)because the catcher didn't control the pitch.

When the catcher doesn't catch and control the ball (b), it may be scored a wild pitch or passed ball, as defined in 10.13. In both cases the pitcher is credited with a strikeout, and no error is charged. (10.12e) The "ordinary effort" criterion doesn't apply.

If the pitch strikes the ground and the catcher catches and controls the ball (a), but subsequently throws wildly to first, it is E2 and a strikeout. Presumably, in this situation if the catcher is slow in delivering an accurate throw to first, it would not technically be an error.

3 Finger said: [Presumably, in this situation if the catcher is slow in delivering an accurate throw to first, it would not technically be an error]

I believe you apply the "ordinary effort" caveat based on everyting that happens after deciding it wasn't a wild pitch or passed ball. Slow play after a pitch I agree is a WP or PB. Pick one.

If the catcher throws the ball at first base with plenty of time and "stuff" happens, I would apply the "ordinary effort" rule to determine who gets the error. I.E. if the ball goes into RF on the throw, it's E-2. If the throw hits the F-3 in the glove and he drops it, E-3.

Most likely just symantics...

Perhaps I wasn't very clear. The only time an error can be charged is if the ball bounces after the plate, and is gloved and controlled by the catcher. If it bounces on or before the plate. it is a wild pitch by definition and not an error. If the catcher fails to control the ball, and it wasn't wild, it is a passed ball. Still no error.

But if it bounces after the plate, the pitch cannot be legally caught, and now if the catcher did control the ball, an inaccurate throw would be an error.

Regarding my comment you quoted, here are some passages from rule 10:
Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error. For example, the official scorer shall not charge a fielder with an error if such fielder fields a ground ball cleanly but does not throw to first base in time to retire the batter.
....
The official scorer shall not charge an error if the pitcher fails to cover first base on a play, thereby allowing a batter-runner to reach first base safely. The official scorer shall not charge an error to a fielder who incorrectly throws to the wrong base on a play.


The reason I said "technically" is that many scorekeepers at lower levels of ball will charge an error in these situations.

3FG,

How does reaching via PB or WP affect earned runs? Obviously in the case where runner reaches via E2, that runner is unearned if he scores (and other runs would be determined to be earned/unearned based on whether they would have scored even given the extra out that should have been recorded).

But I'm asking specifically about runner's reaching via PB and WP. Thanks

A WP is on the pitcher, so it will count towards his ERA. A PB, although not listed as an error officially, is essentially an error just listed in it's own category. It is not the fault of the pitcher, so it would not be considered in ERA.

bballman has the earned run question nailed.

I think 3 Finger and I are in violent agreement on the rest of this, although I'll give him the point for references and completness...

I'll also agree that an "error" scoring in most of these situations is rare based on the situations presented by 3 Finger. It's most likely a WP or PB.

P get's credit for a K if the call is strike three. After that, you decide what caused the runner to reach first applying the same logic as why a runner would go from first to second in the same situation (WP, PB, E-2, etc).

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
If it bounces on or before the plate. it is a wild pitch by definition and not an error. If the catcher fails to control the ball, and it wasn't wild, it is a passed ball. Still no error.

But if it bounces after the plate, the pitch cannot be legally caught, and now if the catcher did control the ball, an inaccurate throw would be an error.

So any pitch that bounces beyond the plate is how a passed ball is detemined? Anything else is a wild pitch by the rule book? Even though the scorekeeper would not know this, what if the pitch is called to be in the dirt before it reaches the plate? Is it still considered a WP?

I'm not a scorer so take what I say with a grain of salt. It seems to me anything that the catcher can get a glove on and doesn't should be a PB. If it bounces out in front of him and kicks weird,sails over his head or is way wide, all should be WP.

Any pitch that hits the dirt (in front of or behind the plate) before it reaches the catcher will be scored a WP if it allows a batter/runner to advance. Also, if the pitch is too high, or too wide for the catcher to reasonably make a play on, it is a WP. If the catcher should have made a reasonable play on the ball, it is a passed ball. For example, if the catcher is set up outside and the pitch is inside, but over the plate and the catcher just doesn't get his glove over in time, I would score PB. A curveball that the catcher doesn't handle, but is not in the dirt is a PB. Like I said earlier, WP is on the pitcher and runner will factor into the pitcher's ERA. PB is on the catcher and runner will not factor into the pitcher's ERA.

For an actual error to occur, a play will have to be made on the batter/runner. So let's say the pitcher throws a CB in the dirt that the catcher blocks, but the ball only gets a short distance away from him. Batter runs to 1st, catcher picks the ball up and throws wild to 1st. This would be scored E2 and the runner would not factor in the pitcher's ERA.

Hope that clarifies things a little.

I had one today, R1 wild pitch. R1 clearly earns second base but gets greedy due to catcher not immediately finding the ball and takes off for third. Catcher retrieves ball and throws to third base, 20' in front of R1, who does a little dance to avoid tag but is tagged out. F5 drops ball during tag and R1 is ruled safe at third.

I score WP (to get to second) and E-5 to get to third.