How to Win Friends and Influence People (College Baseball Recruiting Edition)

Yeah, it's refreshing ain't it?!

Cast into the water long enough and enough fish will bite. 

RJM posted:

Cast into the water long enough and enough fish will bite. 

This is not true. I have gone home fishless on any occasions.

Just curious, IN GENERAL, how big of money-makers are college camps to schools? I know D1, D2, D3 programs and camps vary tremendously, and folks/coaches will state that they find and commit players every year that they see for the first time at their camps, but seriously...is the emphasis on money-making or talent spotting? What's a typical split? Howe important, financially, are camps to colleges in the general sense. Thanks.

Batty67 posted:

Just curious, IN GENERAL, how big of money-makers are college camps to schools? I know D1, D2, D3 programs and camps vary tremendously, and folks/coaches will state that they find and commit players every year that they see for the first time at their camps, but seriously...is the emphasis on money-making or talent spotting? What's a typical split? Howe important, financially, are camps to colleges in the general sense. Thanks.

A college head coach told me it was truly just a money maker.  

I am sure every once in awhile a stud shows up.

That is not to say that the players don't learn, have fun, enjoy being on campus, meet the coaches working, etc.... 

Camps are good for

a). Inviting players up to see the campus and get another good look before offering

b). Finding a stud in the rough 

c). Making money 

These camps help supplement the salary for many coaches. And many serve as the paycheck for unpaid assistants. Think about it, the only cost is for them to make t-shirts. I have been to camps where the HC wasn't even there. One school held a camp last week, but 3 of their 4 coaches were on field 3 at Lake Point watching a pitcher at the WWBA. 

Personally I wouldn't go to a camp unless the school expressed very high interest and you are expecting an offer from them. 

PaBaseball suggests this lower in his post but to clarify:

Item a) means: an invitation of this sort will be unique, personalized, and definitely not a mass email that has an unsubscribe function at the bottom of the page. 

smokeminside posted:

PaBaseball suggests this lower in his post but to clarify:

Item a) means: an invitation of this sort will be unique, personalized, and definitely not a mass email that has an unsubscribe function at the bottom of the page. 

Yes. Or a phone call or text.

2019Dad posted:

smokeminside posted:

PaBaseball suggests this lower in his post but to clarify:

Item a) means: an invitation of this sort will be unique, personalized, and definitely not a mass email that has an unsubscribe function at the bottom of the page. 

Yes. Or a phone call or text.

And those are even better!

College camps offer high-priced, short-term, large-group baseball instruction. If you go for any reason other than to buy what they're selling, you'll probably be disappointed.

No coach whose job depends on winning games has a recruiting strategy that includes hoping players capable of improving his program will respond to mass mailings, show up at camp, and demonstrate superior skills.   

Some of the IVY camps have several high academic D3 colleges working there as well.  I have not been to one, but I am assuming they are looking for Ivy aspiring prospects that they can pick up b/c Ivy did not recruit them.

Swampboy posted:

College camps offer high-priced, short-term, large-group baseball instruction. If you go for any reason other than to buy what they're selling, you'll probably be disappointed.

No coach whose job depends on winning games has a recruiting strategy that includes hoping players capable of improving his program will respond to mass mailings, show up at camp, and demonstrate superior skills.   

I couldn't disagree with this more.  My son's current D1 offer is directly associated with a camp.  It was a school that was invited to the camp, not running it at their school.  They liked what they saw, followed up, watched him pitch in games after and offered last week.

We have 2 UV next week, which we're hopeful those will also result in offers.  One school is from that same camp.  The other is his top choice and we've gone to 3 of their camps over the years to stay in front of them and show our interest.  It has allowed them to see how he's developed over the years.

We have chosen to do these camps, over the high priced travels "business" teams and showcases.

I think camps fall into one of those topics about which it's difficult to make categorical comments in either direction. Instead, it gets back to whether or not a player is well-suited as both a player and student  for the program/school that's sponsoring the camp.

A couple of examples come to mind: On the one hand, I recall a high academic, P5 Recruiting Coordinator coming over to me during a camp my son was attending, sweeping his hand across the field where the camp was underway, and saying, "There are a total of about 3 players on that field that could play here and get admitted." There were about 60-to-70 players on the field.

On the other hand, my son used his eventual alma mater's camp on 3 successive summers to (1) give that school's coaches a thorough opportunity to get to know him and his abilities, (2) validate his presumption that he fit well there, and (3) (last, but not least) further develop his game. His having done that made the offer that came at the conclusion of the third summer's camp a natural and comfortable event.

Of course, there's a bit of "Catch 22" to the camp process. You might not know about the fit until the player's had a chance to attend. However, if you do your homework pretty well on the front end, you can often have a pretty good idea of "fit"before you plunk down the camp fee.

100% agree with Prepster and Swampboy.  Camps can serve many purposes.   Those purposes have to be for the recruits benefit or it is a waste of time and money.  Early on (freshmen and sophomore year), my oldest son attended a handful of (not terribly expense and local) camps.  He learned a lot about the camp & showcase format, listened to the Head Coaches wisdom & suggestions, and personally connected with some pitching coaches that he stayed in touch with him and would actually play a part in his future recruitment 18 months later.   He was learning about the process, and learning about schools and their various academic programs as well as their athletic levels.   Camps provided a direction (in a short period of time) that he would eventually pursue. 

Fast forward a year later, he was attending top level national showcases and going on many Unofficial Visits to schools he was interested in.  There were no camps his junior year.   He had offers, but there were a handful of interested academic schools that had not seen him as much as the traditional D1 schools that were following him.   The academic schools wanted to see him pitch again with additional coaching eyeballs, presumably to offer him.  That is exactly what happened.  After not going to a camp for 18 months he was invited to an on-campus prospect camp to get eyes on him and seal the deal.    I truly believe if we had not gone to that prospect camp, he would not have been offered...they wanted to know he was genuinely interested in their school.   For his recruitment, the camp was either about qualifying the school for his benefit or getting an offer to close the deal. 

Just my opinion and experiences....

Fenway, you had no inkling that he would be offered at that last camp? Of the people I know who were offered at a camp, a majority knew ahead of time the offer was coming at the camp via their club team coach because the schools use this as part of their marketing strategy to say things like “40% of our current players attended a camp and we offered 6 players at last year’s camps.”

fenwaysouth posted:

100% agree with Prepster and Swampboy.  Camps can serve many purposes.   Those purposes have to be for the recruits benefit or it is a waste of time and money.  Early on (freshmen and sophomore year), my oldest son attended a handful of (not terribly expense and local) camps.  He learned a lot about the camp & showcase format, listened to the Head Coaches wisdom & suggestions, and personally connected with some pitching coaches that he stayed in touch with him and would actually play a part in his future recruitment 18 months later.   He was learning about the process, and learning about schools and their various academic programs as well as their athletic levels.   Camps provided a direction (in a short period of time) that he would eventually pursue. 

Fast forward a year later, he was attending top level national showcases and going on many Unofficial Visits to schools he was interested in.  There were no camps his junior year.   He had offers, but there were a handful of interested academic schools that had not seen him as much as the traditional D1 schools that were following him.   The academic schools wanted to see him pitch again with additional coaching eyeballs, presumably to offer him.  That is exactly what happened.  After not going to a camp for 18 months he was invited to an on-campus prospect camp to get eyes on him and seal the deal.    I truly believe if we had not gone to that prospect camp, he would not have been offered...they wanted to know he was genuinely interested in their school.   For his recruitment, the camp was either about qualifying the school for his benefit or getting an offer to close the deal. 

Just my opinion and experiences....

Going to a camp this week, with the hopes it falls into your 2nd paragraph, as every conversation lines up as you have described.

But wait.........there's more!

fenwaysouth posted:

100% agree with Prepster and Swampboy.  Camps can serve many purposes.   Those purposes have to be for the recruits benefit or it is a waste of time and money.  Early on (freshmen and sophomore year), my oldest son attended a handful of (not terribly expense and local) camps.  He learned a lot about the camp & showcase format, listened to the Head Coaches wisdom & suggestions, and personally connected with some pitching coaches that he stayed in touch with him and would actually play a part in his future recruitment 18 months later.   He was learning about the process, and learning about schools and their various academic programs as well as their athletic levels.   Camps provided a direction (in a short period of time) that he would eventually pursue. 

Fast forward a year later, he was attending top level national showcases and going on many Unofficial Visits to schools he was interested in.  There were no camps his junior year.   He had offers, but there were a handful of interested academic schools that had not seen him as much as the traditional D1 schools that were following him.   The academic schools wanted to see him pitch again with additional coaching eyeballs, presumably to offer him.  That is exactly what happened.  After not going to a camp for 18 months he was invited to an on-campus prospect camp to get eyes on him and seal the deal.    I truly believe if we had not gone to that prospect camp, he would not have been offered...they wanted to know he was genuinely interested in their school.   For his recruitment, the camp was either about qualifying the school for his benefit or getting an offer to close the deal. 

Just my opinion and experiences....

We had a similar experience. I was frustrated and wanted to say no as soon had been to MANY events at the school, including a PBR event two weeks before the camp in question, but at the end of the camp, coach thanked us for coming. "It showed you were genuinely interested in our program," he said, just before making an offer to our son. 

GaryMe posted:

Fenway, you had no inkling that he would be offered at that last camp? Of the people I know who were offered at a camp, a majority knew ahead of time the offer was coming at the camp via their club team coach because the schools use this as part of their marketing strategy to say things like “40% of our current players attended a camp and we offered 6 players at last year’s camps.”

GaryMe - We absolutely had an inkling he would be offered at the last camp....it was an 8 hour drive one way!  He already had an offer from a program in the same D1 high academic conference and offers from other D1 mid-majors, so we knew it was a strong possibility.  We knew this camp was a golden opportunity to get everything he was looking for in a school...again a closing tool.  This is one of my points of  why you would attend a camp.