That he has broken the "code of silence"?
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They will treat him with respect. Joba already said he'll give him a hug when he gets back and many other Yankees said that it will not change anything because he came clean and they trust he won't do it again.
I would imagine that there are many players who remained clean who are very happy that some are breaking the silence (see article Frank posted on Pedro).
I think that they also realize, he had no choice.
I think that they also realize, he had no choice.
He told the truth under oath in a court of law. That prevents him from going to jail! Clemens on the other hand lied and might go to jail. This isn't the clubhouse and you shouldn't pretend to know about it. This is real life.
NC:
I don't know why you are so hostile to me, I just asked for opinions. But thanks for telling me that I know nothing, even though I did not even give an opinion on the subject because I don't know the answer. So, I guess that means that you, on the other hand, KNOW IT ALL.
Is this where I apologize?
I don't know why you are so hostile to me, I just asked for opinions. But thanks for telling me that I know nothing, even though I did not even give an opinion on the subject because I don't know the answer. So, I guess that means that you, on the other hand, KNOW IT ALL.
Is this where I apologize?
quote:Originally posted by sluggo:
NC:
Is this where I apologize?
Yes, because I don't think that ncball was directing insults to you. When he mentioned YOU, I don't think he meant YOU.
JMO.
I think it's obvious that sluggo is a little defensive. Especially after reading your posts reflecting your stance on all this. It's also obvious that you're fishing by the title of this one.
Wht not ask, "How will and honest man treat Andy when he returns?"
Wht not ask, "How will and honest man treat Andy when he returns?"
Those that honor the core precepts of truth and honesty will respect Andy for his endeavor to remain true to those precepts of his faith. Those who think it is more important to maintain the code of silence, as well so they can continue the ruse of falsity of their true ineptitude, and have shown previously that they don't give a whit about the integrity of the game, and don't care anything about self-respect, will consider Andy a traitor to the MLBPA.
Two Points here:
01---Andy did lie in a fashion---he did not tell the entire story in his original deposition---he also broke the rules so why is he termed a "HERO"
02-- How does anyone know Roger is lying---this has yet to be proven
One final aspect: how many of you truly know how the union brethren work together?
01---Andy did lie in a fashion---he did not tell the entire story in his original deposition---he also broke the rules so why is he termed a "HERO"
02-- How does anyone know Roger is lying---this has yet to be proven
One final aspect: how many of you truly know how the union brethren work together?
quote:Originally posted by baseballregie:
I think it's obvious that sluggo is a little defensive. Especially after reading your posts reflecting your stance on all this. It's also obvious that you're fishing by the title of this one.
Wht not ask, "How will and honest man treat Andy when he returns?"
I want to know how ALL the team treats him, honest and otherwise. But, after thinking about it, I realized that y'all don't know any more than I do, so I guess we will just have to wait and see. If I had to guess, I would say I think there is going to be a chill in the air.
I also wonder what he will say at his press conference on Monday. Why does he need a press conference? And why did he come to spring training late?
Why did he ask out of the hearing?
Most HEROES stand tall---didnt the congressman call him a hero?
Is there more to hear from ANDY THE HERO?
Most HEROES stand tall---didnt the congressman call him a hero?
Is there more to hear from ANDY THE HERO?
First of all, not sure he came late but under the circumstances he most likely was advised to do so considering the week. The press conference is so he can say what he has to say ONCE, not 10 times. Makes sense.
I don't think that AP was the one who needed or wanted to prove someone was lying. That was what Roger wanted, he insisted on the hearing, his gripe was not with AP it was with McNamee. Is that hard to understand? If he was really lying, Roger could have very easily stated, "Andy is not telling the truth", but he stated that he only "misremembered". Misremembered is a vague reply and doesn't open himself to perjury. Is that too hard to understand too? Oh now don't tell me Roger was being a good friend. That's just BS. Roger was up there for one person, himself.
Also, what actually did AP lie about, he said he used it twice then changed his story? That was only hurting himself, more, however, sometimes a bit of soul serching is a good thing. Something that Clemens should do.
I don't think that AP was the one who needed or wanted to prove someone was lying. That was what Roger wanted, he insisted on the hearing, his gripe was not with AP it was with McNamee. Is that hard to understand? If he was really lying, Roger could have very easily stated, "Andy is not telling the truth", but he stated that he only "misremembered". Misremembered is a vague reply and doesn't open himself to perjury. Is that too hard to understand too? Oh now don't tell me Roger was being a good friend. That's just BS. Roger was up there for one person, himself.
Also, what actually did AP lie about, he said he used it twice then changed his story? That was only hurting himself, more, however, sometimes a bit of soul serching is a good thing. Something that Clemens should do.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Two Points here:
01---Andy did lie in a fashion---he did not tell the entire story in his original deposition---he also broke the rules so why is he termed a "HERO"
02-- How does anyone know Roger is lying---this has yet to be proven
One final aspect: how many of you truly know how the union brethren work together?
Clemens lies are well documented. He keeps changing his story.
quote:Carolyn Maloney, Democrat of New York, noted that in a “60 Minutes” interview Clemens said he refused to talk to Mitchell on his lawyers’ advice. Yet, in his deposition, she said, “There were six times that you told our committee under oath that you had no idea that Mitchell wanted to talk to you.”
Asked to explain the conflict, Clemens said: “The fact of the matter was I was never told by my baseball agent slash attorney that we were asked to come down and see Senator Mitchell. If I knew the lies that McNamee was talking about me, I would have been down there to see Senator Mitchell in a heartbeat, in a New York minute.”
Clemens agreed with Maloney that his agents had done him “a terrible disservice” by depriving him of a chance to talk to Mitchell before the report came out, but he acknowledged that he had not fired his agents, the Hendricks brothers of Houston, or taken any other action against them.
NY Times
He obviously knew Mitchell wanted to talk. He said he refused to talk to Mitchell on 60 Minutes. He either lied to 60 minutes or Congress. Take your pick, but I think I know. He can't keep his stories straight, as liars are prone to do.
Clemens admitted this week his investigators interviewed McNamee days before the release of the Mitchell Report even taping the interview, in which Mcnamee told them Clemens was in it.
When asked on 60 minutes if he knew anything about the content of the Mitchell Report prior to release, Clemens said he had no idea he was in it. If he was clueless about the Report, why are his boys interviewing and taping Mcnamee before the rpeort is out?
Hall of Fame voters are going to A) punish him for using peds then lying about it and, B) discount his record since 1997 for being chemically induced. Th shame of it is he was set for life financially and a lock for the hall without juice. Now he's still wealthy, but the Hall is a long shot, imo.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
If he was really lying, Roger could have very easily stated, "Andy is not telling the truth", but he stated that he only "misremembered". Misremembered is a vague reply and doesn't open himself to perjury. Is that too hard to understand too? Oh now don't tell me Roger was being a good friend. That's just BS. Roger was up there for one person, himself.
TPM, what part of this do YOU not understand? Friends actually DO protect good friends even in circumstances as this. Yes, he could have said AP was not telling the truth but he was able to protect him AND get his point across at the same time. Who are you to say this was the bad way for him to handle this testimony? As you stated, Roger's gripe was not with AP but to clear his good name as any of us would. Any one of us would protect those we consider loved ones or dear friends to the best of our abilities. That's all Roger was simply trying to accomplish.
YGD,
He wasn't protecting AP. He was protecting himself and if he called him a liar then everyone was a liar but him..that's bad news. If he said he was lying he would be digging himself into a bigger hole. The misremembered word was supposed to work, it didn't.
By the way, what did AP lie about?
When someone wants to get in touch with a player, agent gets the call first. You can't tell me they didn't know about it. You can't tell me with the big bucks he pays his agent he's not listed on the first to call list?
Any explanation why he said on 60 minutes what he did but later said he had no idea? Why is his change of story acceptable? Because he has more CYA than anyone else? If you can give me a reasonable explanation for the above we'll listen.
He wasn't protecting AP. He was protecting himself and if he called him a liar then everyone was a liar but him..that's bad news. If he said he was lying he would be digging himself into a bigger hole. The misremembered word was supposed to work, it didn't.
By the way, what did AP lie about?
When someone wants to get in touch with a player, agent gets the call first. You can't tell me they didn't know about it. You can't tell me with the big bucks he pays his agent he's not listed on the first to call list?
Any explanation why he said on 60 minutes what he did but later said he had no idea? Why is his change of story acceptable? Because he has more CYA than anyone else? If you can give me a reasonable explanation for the above we'll listen.
It's rather humorous to hear people defend Clemens. Keep the various defensive posts coming...they carry a laugh value that I couldn't even get from Roger "the dodger" himself during his testimony or his puppet lawyers or his alibi stooge, Mr. Jose Conseco.
The more I hear ridiculous attempts at defending Clemens, the more nails you plunge into his coffin of guilt.
The more I hear ridiculous attempts at defending Clemens, the more nails you plunge into his coffin of guilt.
Now lets get one thing perfectly clear here,
There is only one Roger "the dodger" in this world and that's Roger Staubach.
There is only one Roger "the dodger" in this world and that's Roger Staubach.
quote:Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
Now lets get one thing perfectly clear here,
There is only one Roger "the dodger" in this world and that's Roger Staubach.
.
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!!
Nice picture. What a great team
quote:Carolyn Maloney, Democrat of New York, noted that in a “60 Minutes” interview Clemens said he refused to talk to Mitchell on his lawyers’ advice. Yet, in his deposition, she said, “There were six times that you told our committee under oath that you had no idea that Mitchell wanted to talk to you.”
Asked to explain the conflict, Clemens said: “The fact of the matter was I was never told by my baseball agent slash attorney that we were asked to come down and see Senator Mitchell. If I knew the lies that McNamee was talking about me, I would have been down there to see Senator Mitchell in a heartbeat, in a New York minute.”
Not trying to defend, but just in the interest of accuracy, here is the exact transcript regarding that question from 60 minutes...
WALLACE Did you know ahead of time what was going be in George Mitchell’s report?
CLEMENS I did not.
WALLACE Did Brian McNamee tell you what he was going to say to—
CLEMENS Didn’t tell me a word.
TRACK: BUT HE DID ASK CLEMENS FOR A FAVOR JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE MITCHELL REPORT CAME OUT.
CLEMENS He emails me and asks me where all the good fishing equipment is down at Cabo that I bought so he can go fishing. Thank you very much. I said, Have a good time, go fishing. Doesn’t say a word that you, that you know I’m fixing to bury you with all these accusations and what do we do about it. Didn’t say a word about it. That’s what ****es me off.
WALLACE Why didn’t you speak to George Mitchell’s investigators?
CLEMENS I listened to my counsel. I was advised not to. A lot of the
players didn’t go down and talk to him.
WALLACE I know.
CLEMENS But if I would’ve known what this man, Brian McNamee had said in this report, I would have been down there in a heartbeat to take care of it.
PG,
You are pointing out a very good example here. He states he listened to his counsel not to go to speak to Mitchell investigators on 60 minutes but to Congress says he had no idea they wanted to talk to him and blamed it on his attorney/agent for not knowing. What's the real story? He also says he would have definetly been there if he knew the lies McNamee.
So what's the deal, did you not know, did you know and only would have gone down there if you knew what he was saying? Why didn't you JUST GO instead of using the excuse he was advised and the other players weren't going. Blaming others, IMO, just doesn't cut it. He should have taken more personal responsibility instead of blaming everyone else.
One question. How come out of all the players named he was the only one to come forward with he didn't take steroids? If what is stated in the Mitchell report is NOT true I would think that others would have spoken up. I find this strange.
You are pointing out a very good example here. He states he listened to his counsel not to go to speak to Mitchell investigators on 60 minutes but to Congress says he had no idea they wanted to talk to him and blamed it on his attorney/agent for not knowing. What's the real story? He also says he would have definetly been there if he knew the lies McNamee.
So what's the deal, did you not know, did you know and only would have gone down there if you knew what he was saying? Why didn't you JUST GO instead of using the excuse he was advised and the other players weren't going. Blaming others, IMO, just doesn't cut it. He should have taken more personal responsibility instead of blaming everyone else.
One question. How come out of all the players named he was the only one to come forward with he didn't take steroids? If what is stated in the Mitchell report is NOT true I would think that others would have spoken up. I find this strange.
For me, those that choose to endlessly support Bonds, Clemons and company are no different than those who contined to say the world is flat despite all the evidence to the contrary. Otherwise intelligent people blindly these figures and its now almost a religion where its about faith and not about facts.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Why did he ask out of the hearing?
Most HEROES stand tall---didnt the congressman call him a hero?
Is there more to hear from ANDY THE HERO?
Funny you should ask, TR. My first thought is not to believe anything you read without verification, but having said that, it now appears that Andy was forced to give up his dad, cus the feds already knew. Also, Cashman and Steinbrenner are apparently not very happy with ANDY THE HERO:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/
IT's getting worse for Roger. The polls are reflecting this. Even in "roger" territory. Before it was generally 66% to 34%.
NYT
Who do you believe:
Roger Clemens 21%
Brian McNamee 79%
NYT
Who do you believe:
Roger Clemens 21%
Brian McNamee 79%
The article does not STATE that they are upset, states they have a right to be upset. As we are often reminded, don't beleive everything you read. 
BTW, if you were giving someone 16mil don't ya take a physical which may or not include looking for steriods in a pee test?
Also, what would you think he should have said under oath? I doubt very mush this was something he WANTED to do. Could have pleaded the 5th, leaving more to speculate.
BTW, if you were giving someone 16mil don't ya take a physical which may or not include looking for steriods in a pee test?
Also, what would you think he should have said under oath? I doubt very mush this was something he WANTED to do. Could have pleaded the 5th, leaving more to speculate.
I think it's very safe to say that all the evidence is not out there. Each side - Clemens, McNamee, government - still have some cards up their sleeves. This thing is a long way from being played out. The way it is right now there is not enough to convict anyone. Someone said to me in another thread this isn't a court case but a public opinion event.
That is true but let me ask you all this. Let's say a person you trusted goes out and says some very bad stuff about you, has some evidence that could or could not prove that you did this something and it was 10 years ago.
Would you want the people to determine your fate before you have a chance to present the whole story? The congressional hearing was a set up. The government did it to give one of them enough rope to hang themselves - if the government has real concrete evidence which is up in the air.
Fact #1 - one of the two is lying
Fact #2 - almost everyone involved - Clemens, McNamee, Pettite have lied at some point
Fact #3 - neither side has showed anything that is concrete to prove guilt
Amazingly, right now Canseco is the only one who seems to be telling the truth. I cannot think of anything he has said to be proven a lie or wrong.
I think it looks very bad for Clemens but so far there is nothing out there that will convict him. It's all circumstantial evidence and testimony based on people who have lied / not told the truth. Would you want to be convicted of anything based on that? I know I don't.
If it's proven Clemens lied and did take steroids /HGH I won't be surprised and hope he goes to jail. But I don't want to deny the man his due process like the popular votes / polls want to do.
As for the original question how will Andy's teammates treat him - if he is getting people out they will love him. If he is struggling they might be a little cold to him.
That is true but let me ask you all this. Let's say a person you trusted goes out and says some very bad stuff about you, has some evidence that could or could not prove that you did this something and it was 10 years ago.
Would you want the people to determine your fate before you have a chance to present the whole story? The congressional hearing was a set up. The government did it to give one of them enough rope to hang themselves - if the government has real concrete evidence which is up in the air.
Fact #1 - one of the two is lying
Fact #2 - almost everyone involved - Clemens, McNamee, Pettite have lied at some point
Fact #3 - neither side has showed anything that is concrete to prove guilt
Amazingly, right now Canseco is the only one who seems to be telling the truth. I cannot think of anything he has said to be proven a lie or wrong.
I think it looks very bad for Clemens but so far there is nothing out there that will convict him. It's all circumstantial evidence and testimony based on people who have lied / not told the truth. Would you want to be convicted of anything based on that? I know I don't.
If it's proven Clemens lied and did take steroids /HGH I won't be surprised and hope he goes to jail. But I don't want to deny the man his due process like the popular votes / polls want to do.
As for the original question how will Andy's teammates treat him - if he is getting people out they will love him. If he is struggling they might be a little cold to him.
Something tells me there is a lot more dirt under the carpets in Saint Andy's home----there sure is a link between all the Texas people named here----could he be the bggest liar of all ?
They all cheated and they all kind of deserve what happens.
JMO.
JMO.
Its not like Andy came out and told the truth before he had to. Would he ever admitted to using hgh if he didnt feel he had to? No. How is he any different than anyone else in this whole mess? He's not. Brian and Roger are trying to do what they have to do to save their own skin. We may never know who is telling the truth. But does it really matter? The fact is this whole mess has brought to light the problems that need to be faced and corrected.
Ml baseball will be aggressive in its approach now. Not because they wanted to. But because they have to. They are no different than Andy. They are all the same.
Ml baseball will be aggressive in its approach now. Not because they wanted to. But because they have to. They are no different than Andy. They are all the same.
You'll need a magnifying glass to find a hero in this mess. It all spirals down over the next year or two between possible trials and new books. The only good outcome is improvement in the testing program to an independant Olympic style test.
Hopefully AP's teammates will understand the difference between retaliating for a hit batter and being subpeonaed by Congress. I'm not sure though and doubt Pettitte really cares, either way.
Hopefully AP's teammates will understand the difference between retaliating for a hit batter and being subpeonaed by Congress. I'm not sure though and doubt Pettitte really cares, either way.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I think it looks very bad for Clemens but so far there is nothing out there that will convict him. It's all circumstantial evidence and testimony based on people who have lied / not told the truth. Would you want to be convicted of anything based on that? I know I don't.
Thank you coach. What you said above is basically the bottom line to all this fiasco. You think, I think, we all think. Right now that's all we CAN do because none of actually KNOW. Why? Well, you said it very well....circumstantial evidence based on people who have lied/not told the truth
And to answer your final question: No, I most definitely would not.
I can now make plans for my cruise for I just learned that the world is NOT flat after all. woo hoo!
quote:I can now make plans for my cruise for I just learned that the world is NOT flat after all. woo hoo!
YoungGunDad - when you get back from your cruise let me know and we can work on Congress to open an investigation into this whole dinosaurs being real myth.
Triceratops - what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!
now ,you have to understand how much i don't like the yankees. but i watched ap's press conferance , this guy seems like such a nice guy. kind of wanted to give him a pat on the back and tell him it's ok.........but then i saw the pinstripes.lol