HS coach needed little coaching from parent

Rob T posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

The point is in this case, it is coming off a parent showing he is smarter than the coach - while presenting facts that don't support this contention.

The facts presented run contrary to the way the vast majority of programs operate - and serve only to highlight the OP's contention that the coach needed his "help".  There are numerous other factors at play that are being swept aside in order to fit the narrative.

There are certainly bad coaches out there, politics often come into play - I don't think anyone here who has been through the HS experience would deny that.  However, these things are often used as a crutch when a parent doesn't see their kid getting whatever playing time/respect that the parent expects.  So, when a poster jumps in with a recycle of "I'm smarter than the coach" - it's going to be looked at with a critical eye.

Coaches don't like dealing with parents because 99% of the time, the parent is looking through rose colored glasses at their child - and reality is at odds with what they believe.  How many times are they supposed to entertain conversations with parents over the same topic?  Parents don't realize that the coaches owe them nothing. If anything is owed it is to the player. The coach is there for them - not the people in the stands, not the people who show up on game day but never see hours of practice, not the people who don't have to make the difficult decisions but love to criticize them.

One of the reasons you hear posters say to let your kid handle the baseball issues, is because you are supposed to be teaching them how to be an adult.  They are going to need to be able to navigate the world without you holding the rudder for them. 

If you have to deal with baseball issues - what's next?  Talking to college professors, talking to future employers? At some point they have to take responsibility for their own path.  If they can't handle doing it with something as trivial as high school baseball - when are they going to learn?

For the record, my son hated the coach that headed his HS program for the past 2 seasons.  I don't think he came home from practice a single day without some issue.  My response was always the same - what are you going to do about it? I knew many times that he was right - but they weren't my battles to fight. 

According to you I am presenting facts that don't support my contention?  What would be those facts?  Ding, ding, ding, the coach got it wrong.  Why is that so hard to accept?

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure that your speech was the catalyst for the decision. Perhaps I'm wrong. 

But why would this coach decide the kid wasn't a pitcher until daddy said he was? Does he value your opinion that much? Personally, I've never changed an evaluation to appease a parent. 

ironhorse posted:

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure that your speech was the catalyst for the decision. Perhaps I'm wrong. 

But why would this coach decide the kid wasn't a pitcher until daddy said he was? Does he value your opinion that much? Personally, I've never changed an evaluation to appease a parent. 

He was never evaluated as a pitcher, that's my point.  If your argument is to wait another year and see if the coach will listen to my son, then we are not on the same page.  We tried that and it didn't work, what makes you think it would work the next year?  My talk to the coach was to let him know my son could pitch and the success he had the previous year.  To give him credit, he did listen and followed up the next season.

justbaseball posted:

Nonamedad posted:

Last point, then I'm out. I'm glad you guys have great situations, I really am, but at our HS it's not. Coach invited 3 football players to try out, all sophomores, all could run like the wind, all couldn't field, hit, or throw, all made varsity, all quit a week after first practice to run track. Coach was humiliated and lost all parent respect. 2 kids on Freshman team, didn't look right, one was son of vice principle at one of the middle schools, other was son of district HR manager. Tell the 3 juniors who had been with the school every year since freshman who were left on JV to make room for the football players it's all about hard work and dedication.  No it's never politics, life is always fair and just.  

 

Here's the deal.  My kids have had many great teachers...and a few who were terrible and I can surely find 8-10 parents who agree with me.  That doesn't translate into, 'I haven't met one parent who has been happy with the HS teaching.'  You can never again write that with regards to HS coaches. The score is now 8 or 10-2.

No doubt it stinks when you have a bad coach...or a bad teacher.  My kids have had them.  I don't run to 8-10 other parents to find out if they agree and I don't tell my kid their coach/teacher stinks.  We fall more on the side of mentoring them on how to deal with difficult or even bad bosses - it will come up again in life.  Perhaps many times.

No doubt politics or favoritism enters the equation sometimes.  But guess what?  That will never go away.  Not in college, not in the pros...not in life.  How are you going to teach your kid (in HS) to deal with it?  Throw up his arms and say, 'Thats it, I'm screwed!' or fight back/stand up for himself either with his own dialogue with his boss/teacher/coach or with his play/performance?

Built in advantages are part of life.  Frankly, the majority of these political claims on a baseball field I have seen were more the parents misreading of the situation than not.  But when they exist (or are perceived to exist) I say learn now how to deal with them or forever be doomed to an inability to overcome them.

I would never tell my son a coach or teacher is bad, believe me the students/players know within a week. 

When I first brought up politics and favrotism a few said that is the domain of the untalented and the lazy, now you say "No doubt favrotism enters the equation..." I say point it out and expose it for what it is, at least acknowledge it, once identified a problem can be solved.

How can a parent misread 3 non baseball players making varsity then quitting. I was born at night, but not last night.

mdschert posted:

ironhorse posted:

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure that your speech was the catalyst for the decision. Perhaps I'm wrong. 

But why would this coach decide the kid wasn't a pitcher until daddy said he was? Does he value your opinion that much? Personally, I've never changed an evaluation to appease a parent. 

He was never evaluated as a pitcher, that's my point.  If your argument is to wait another year and see if the coach will listen to my son, then we are not on the same page.  We tried that and it didn't work, what makes you think it would work the next year?  My talk to the coach was to let him know my son could pitch and the success he had the previous year.  To give him credit, he did listen and followed up the next season.

Maybe your kid got better from 13 to 15 years old?

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

mdschert posted:

Rob T posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

The point is in this case, it is coming off a parent showing he is smarter than the coach - while presenting facts that don't support this contention.

The facts presented run contrary to the way the vast majority of programs operate - and serve only to highlight the OP's contention that the coach needed his "help".  There are numerous other factors at play that are being swept aside in order to fit the narrative.

There are certainly bad coaches out there, politics often come into play - I don't think anyone here who has been through the HS experience would deny that.  However, these things are often used as a crutch when a parent doesn't see their kid getting whatever playing time/respect that the parent expects.  So, when a poster jumps in with a recycle of "I'm smarter than the coach" - it's going to be looked at with a critical eye.

Coaches don't like dealing with parents because 99% of the time, the parent is looking through rose colored glasses at their child - and reality is at odds with what they believe.  How many times are they supposed to entertain conversations with parents over the same topic?  Parents don't realize that the coaches owe them nothing. If anything is owed it is to the player. The coach is there for them - not the people in the stands, not the people who show up on game day but never see hours of practice, not the people who don't have to make the difficult decisions but love to criticize them.

One of the reasons you hear posters say to let your kid handle the baseball issues, is because you are supposed to be teaching them how to be an adult.  They are going to need to be able to navigate the world without you holding the rudder for them. 

If you have to deal with baseball issues - what's next?  Talking to college professors, talking to future employers? At some point they have to take responsibility for their own path.  If they can't handle doing it with something as trivial as high school baseball - when are they going to learn?

For the record, my son hated the coach that headed his HS program for the past 2 seasons.  I don't think he came home from practice a single day without some issue.  My response was always the same - what are you going to do about it? I knew many times that he was right - but they weren't my battles to fight. 

According to you I am presenting facts that don't support my contention?  What would be those facts?  Ding, ding, ding, the coach got it wrong.  Why is that so hard to accept?

Because you pretty clearly said the coach told you he had no idea your son pitched.  How could he be wrong in not pitching a kid who pretty clearly didn't show the coach he wanted to pitch?

There's a difference between being wrong - and being uninformed.  It was your son's responsibility to inform him.  You took on that responsibility because your son failed to do it.

You want to paint yourself as knowing more than the coach, when in reality all you taught him is that your son was unwilling to advocate for himself.

I'll be blunt - if a player wants something bad enough, he is going to do whatever is in his power to make it happen. If he is unwilling to do that - is it truly something he wants?

nonamedad - I didn't you say misread anything - how would I know?  I said in my experience over half (actually I'd say far more than half) of parents claiming politics that I've seen, firsthand, were easily incorrect.  In fact, I would say that even when I thought(?) they may be affecting things myself, in hindsight, I was almost always wrong too.

This type of thread comes up often.  For the OP, its a tall hill to climb convince people on here he's/she's right.  So far, I'd agree with others that something isn't adding up. 

Some guesses?  His son doesn't have a particularly strong arm that stands out and wouldn't create interest by the coach as a pitcher?  Or his son has a strong arm but during infield practice throws the ball wildly too much?  Or his son is much less mature physically than the current pitchers?

Or maybe the coach is really bad?  That could very well be true, but will be awfully hard to convince posters in the blind here.  Why?  They/we have seen this comment many times here and in person in our own kids lives - and over half the time, the parent is not the one who is right - at that time.

There are many kids who don't shine in 8th grade, but are stars by 12th grade...or superstars in college.  There are many examples of this that we can all cite.  Maybe thats all that is going on here?  Or maybe...the coach just sucks?  But I have my doubts.

My Coach Sucks

Our HS coach is a good man and a good coach.  I like him. He plays his best players, and he wins.

In our league, I know of one coach who is hated by his players because he treats them with no respect, doesn't teach, and holds himself above the team.  But he plays the best players, and he wins.

I know of another who is poorly regarded by many parents because he pays no attention to developing his subs and role players. He plays the best players. He doesn't win much.

I know of another who is just flat out mean. He plays the best players.  He wins some.

Another coach in league is regarded as a great coach and role model. He does not get as much talent as some others, but he wins his share. He plays his best players.

i could go on.  It's a small sample size but I definitely notice a pattern.

Oh, there is an exception whose son is a SS, but sonny is off to college now, and he's sent quite a few players so college and even one to MLB, so he's not totally clueless about who belongs on the bump.

Rob T posted:

mdschert posted:

Rob T posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

The point is in this case, it is coming off a parent showing he is smarter than the coach - while presenting facts that don't support this contention.

The facts presented run contrary to the way the vast majority of programs operate - and serve only to highlight the OP's contention that the coach needed his "help".  There are numerous other factors at play that are being swept aside in order to fit the narrative.

There are certainly bad coaches out there, politics often come into play - I don't think anyone here who has been through the HS experience would deny that.  However, these things are often used as a crutch when a parent doesn't see their kid getting whatever playing time/respect that the parent expects.  So, when a poster jumps in with a recycle of "I'm smarter than the coach" - it's going to be looked at with a critical eye.

Coaches don't like dealing with parents because 99% of the time, the parent is looking through rose colored glasses at their child - and reality is at odds with what they believe.  How many times are they supposed to entertain conversations with parents over the same topic?  Parents don't realize that the coaches owe them nothing. If anything is owed it is to the player. The coach is there for them - not the people in the stands, not the people who show up on game day but never see hours of practice, not the people who don't have to make the difficult decisions but love to criticize them.

One of the reasons you hear posters say to let your kid handle the baseball issues, is because you are supposed to be teaching them how to be an adult.  They are going to need to be able to navigate the world without you holding the rudder for them. 

If you have to deal with baseball issues - what's next?  Talking to college professors, talking to future employers? At some point they have to take responsibility for their own path.  If they can't handle doing it with something as trivial as high school baseball - when are they going to learn?

For the record, my son hated the coach that headed his HS program for the past 2 seasons.  I don't think he came home from practice a single day without some issue.  My response was always the same - what are you going to do about it? I knew many times that he was right - but they weren't my battles to fight. 

According to you I am presenting facts that don't support my contention?  What would be those facts?  Ding, ding, ding, the coach got it wrong.  Why is that so hard to accept?

Because you pretty clearly said the coach told you he had no idea your son pitched.  How could he be wrong in not pitching a kid who pretty clearly didn't show the coach he wanted to pitch?

There's a difference between being wrong - and being uninformed.  It was your son's responsibility to inform him.  You took on that responsibility because your son failed to do it.

You want to paint yourself as knowing more than the coach, when in reality all you taught him is that your son was unwilling to advocate for himself.

I'll be blunt - if a player wants something bad enough, he is going to do whatever is in his power to make it happen. If he is unwilling to do that - is it truly something he wants?

I also clearly said in more than one post including the original that my son told the coach several times he could and wanted to pitch.  Tried this for an entire season and didn't work with the coach.  Believe me, my son is not the quiet shy type.  I only spoke to the coach as a last resort.  

I still say your kid wasn't good enough pitch that first year. The level of talent in an 8th private school league is questionable at best. Maybe I'm wrong. 

You got video of your kid on the mound? That should put all this to bed. 

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

How does this coach decide who are his pitching prospects and who are not? Does he listen to the players? Coach I want to pitch. Coach I can pitch. Coach I pitched in Middle School. Coach I pitch on my travel team. Or does the coach watch his incoming players in tryouts. Does he evaluate their arm strength in workouts? Does he ask those who show a certain degree of arm strength to toe the hill so he can evaluate them on the mound? In other words this coach is either a clown who randomly for some unknown reason picks guys to be pitchers. Or he randomly decides guys with arm strength are not going to pitch unless their Dad tells him they can.

So what were left with is a Dad who goes to the coach and tells the coach his son can pitch. The coach then pitches his son and is proven wrong for not pitching his kid. The same coach that plays him at 3B. So he can see a 9th grader throw from 3rd to 1st but can't see the arm strength? Can't think to himself "This young kid has a very good arm from 3rd to 1st. I should have him throw a pen and see what I am working with." "Hey kid have you ever pitched?"

Maybe his is the epitome of sneaky fast?

Last question and I'll drop it.  Why didn't the coach let your son pitch when he was a Freshamn?  Didn't you say that he told you that he didn't know your son could pitch, yet your son told him several times? He had to have given a reason to your son throughout the several times he approached him during his freshman season. 

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

Again, where do you work? I'm sure there are plenty here who can tell you how to do your job.

i know straight up, if a kid tries to tell me that he/she needs their ankles taped or better yet a parent or coach says he/she needs their ankle taped, they are often shown the door! Why is it parents think they can give orders into how somebody else does their job?

mdschert posted:

Rob T posted:

mdschert posted:

Rob T posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

The point is in this case, it is coming off a parent showing he is smarter than the coach - while presenting facts that don't support this contention.

The facts presented run contrary to the way the vast majority of programs operate - and serve only to highlight the OP's contention that the coach needed his "help".  There are numerous other factors at play that are being swept aside in order to fit the narrative.

There are certainly bad coaches out there, politics often come into play - I don't think anyone here who has been through the HS experience would deny that.  However, these things are often used as a crutch when a parent doesn't see their kid getting whatever playing time/respect that the parent expects.  So, when a poster jumps in with a recycle of "I'm smarter than the coach" - it's going to be looked at with a critical eye.

Coaches don't like dealing with parents because 99% of the time, the parent is looking through rose colored glasses at their child - and reality is at odds with what they believe.  How many times are they supposed to entertain conversations with parents over the same topic?  Parents don't realize that the coaches owe them nothing. If anything is owed it is to the player. The coach is there for them - not the people in the stands, not the people who show up on game day but never see hours of practice, not the people who don't have to make the difficult decisions but love to criticize them.

One of the reasons you hear posters say to let your kid handle the baseball issues, is because you are supposed to be teaching them how to be an adult.  They are going to need to be able to navigate the world without you holding the rudder for them. 

If you have to deal with baseball issues - what's next?  Talking to college professors, talking to future employers? At some point they have to take responsibility for their own path.  If they can't handle doing it with something as trivial as high school baseball - when are they going to learn?

For the record, my son hated the coach that headed his HS program for the past 2 seasons.  I don't think he came home from practice a single day without some issue.  My response was always the same - what are you going to do about it? I knew many times that he was right - but they weren't my battles to fight. 

According to you I am presenting facts that don't support my contention?  What would be those facts?  Ding, ding, ding, the coach got it wrong.  Why is that so hard to accept?

Because you pretty clearly said the coach told you he had no idea your son pitched.  How could he be wrong in not pitching a kid who pretty clearly didn't show the coach he wanted to pitch?

There's a difference between being wrong - and being uninformed.  It was your son's responsibility to inform him.  You took on that responsibility because your son failed to do it.

You want to paint yourself as knowing more than the coach, when in reality all you taught him is that your son was unwilling to advocate for himself.

I'll be blunt - if a player wants something bad enough, he is going to do whatever is in his power to make it happen. If he is unwilling to do that - is it truly something he wants?

I also clearly said in more than one post including the original that my son told the coach several times he could and wanted to pitch.  Tried this for an entire season and didn't work with the coach.  Believe me, my son is not the quiet shy type.  I only spoke to the coach as a last resort.  

But yet the coach said he didn't know your son pitched until you talked to him?  There's a disconnect there that you aren't willing to see as the root of the problem.

ironhorse posted:

I still say your kid wasn't good enough pitch that first year. The level of talent in an 8th private school league is questionable at best. Maybe I'm wrong. 

You got video of your kid on the mound? That should put all this to bed. 

Ironhorse - you actually help prove my point.  The HS coach never evaluated him, he never threw a single pitch in a game or bullpen.  So we will never know if he was good enough.  The next year though, we do know with a season ERA of .462 playing high end PG tournaments with two of them playing up to 17u.  So maybe you are right, maybe he would have sucked in 9th grade, we will never know.

Rob T posted:

mdschert posted:

Rob T posted:

mdschert posted:

Rob T posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

The point is in this case, it is coming off a parent showing he is smarter than the coach - while presenting facts that don't support this contention.

The facts presented run contrary to the way the vast majority of programs operate - and serve only to highlight the OP's contention that the coach needed his "help".  There are numerous other factors at play that are being swept aside in order to fit the narrative.

There are certainly bad coaches out there, politics often come into play - I don't think anyone here who has been through the HS experience would deny that.  However, these things are often used as a crutch when a parent doesn't see their kid getting whatever playing time/respect that the parent expects.  So, when a poster jumps in with a recycle of "I'm smarter than the coach" - it's going to be looked at with a critical eye.

Coaches don't like dealing with parents because 99% of the time, the parent is looking through rose colored glasses at their child - and reality is at odds with what they believe.  How many times are they supposed to entertain conversations with parents over the same topic?  Parents don't realize that the coaches owe them nothing. If anything is owed it is to the player. The coach is there for them - not the people in the stands, not the people who show up on game day but never see hours of practice, not the people who don't have to make the difficult decisions but love to criticize them.

One of the reasons you hear posters say to let your kid handle the baseball issues, is because you are supposed to be teaching them how to be an adult.  They are going to need to be able to navigate the world without you holding the rudder for them. 

If you have to deal with baseball issues - what's next?  Talking to college professors, talking to future employers? At some point they have to take responsibility for their own path.  If they can't handle doing it with something as trivial as high school baseball - when are they going to learn?

For the record, my son hated the coach that headed his HS program for the past 2 seasons.  I don't think he came home from practice a single day without some issue.  My response was always the same - what are you going to do about it? I knew many times that he was right - but they weren't my battles to fight. 

According to you I am presenting facts that don't support my contention?  What would be those facts?  Ding, ding, ding, the coach got it wrong.  Why is that so hard to accept?

Because you pretty clearly said the coach told you he had no idea your son pitched.  How could he be wrong in not pitching a kid who pretty clearly didn't show the coach he wanted to pitch?

There's a difference between being wrong - and being uninformed.  It was your son's responsibility to inform him.  You took on that responsibility because your son failed to do it.

You want to paint yourself as knowing more than the coach, when in reality all you taught him is that your son was unwilling to advocate for himself.

I'll be blunt - if a player wants something bad enough, he is going to do whatever is in his power to make it happen. If he is unwilling to do that - is it truly something he wants?

I also clearly said in more than one post including the original that my son told the coach several times he could and wanted to pitch.  Tried this for an entire season and didn't work with the coach.  Believe me, my son is not the quiet shy type.  I only spoke to the coach as a last resort.  

But yet the coach said he didn't know your son pitched until you talked to him?  There's a disconnect there that you aren't willing to see as the root of the problem.

No disconnect if you read between the lines.  I guess the coach was cornered or he didn't know because he never evaluated my son. 

mdschert posted:

ironhorse posted:

I still say your kid wasn't good enough pitch that first year. The level of talent in an 8th private school league is questionable at best. Maybe I'm wrong. 

You got video of your kid on the mound? That should put all this to bed. 

Ironhorse - you actually help prove my point.  The HS coach never evaluated him, he never threw a single pitch in a game or bullpen.  So we will never know if he was good enough.  The next year though, we do know with a season ERA of .462 playing high end PG tournaments with two of them playing up to 17u.  So maybe you are right, maybe he would have sucked in 9th grade, we will never know.

 My point is you don't always have to put a kid on the mound to know. 

Video?

Bulldog 19 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

Again, where do you work? I'm sure there are plenty here who can tell you how to do your job.

i know straight up, if a kid tries to tell me that he/she needs their ankles taped or better yet a parent or coach says he/she needs their ankle taped, they are often shown the door! Why is it parents think they can give orders into how somebody else does their job?

Ok so how does my son pitch in your world if you are the parent and he had a coach that didn't listen to him?

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

Again, where do you work? I'm sure there are plenty here who can tell you how to do your job.

i know straight up, if a kid tries to tell me that he/she needs their ankles taped or better yet a parent or coach says he/she needs their ankle taped, they are often shown the door! Why is it parents think they can give orders into how somebody else does their job?

Ok so how does my son pitch in your world if you are the parent and he had a coach that didn't listen to him?

You said the coach told you he never knew your son could pitch?  What reason did he give your son when he did ask about pitching in his Freshamn year?  

I have yet to see a genuinely talented kid be a victim of politics. The worst case is maybe a kid didn't get first shot due to politics. But his talent won out in the end. 

The "victims" are usually the kids of parents where the kid is one of three viable players for one position. The dad, with bias sees his kid as the best option. The coach sees things differently. The coach isn't an idiot. He just sees a different value in each player than the dad.

My son was cut from high school basketball soph year after being the starting point guard on the freshman team. The varsity coach cut my kid since he was already playing two varsity sports. He didn't have time for the "optional" off season workouts. I think the coach made a bad decision on my son. So do other basketball parents. We moved on, supported the program as fans and kept our mouths shut. When others argued on my son's behalf our canned response was, "It's over."

bballdad2016 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

Again, where do you work? I'm sure there are plenty here who can tell you how to do your job.

i know straight up, if a kid tries to tell me that he/she needs their ankles taped or better yet a parent or coach says he/she needs their ankle taped, they are often shown the door! Why is it parents think they can give orders into how somebody else does their job?

Ok so how does my son pitch in your world if you are the parent and he had a coach that didn't listen to him?

You said the coach told you he never knew your son could pitch?  What reason did he give your son when he did ask about pitching in his Freshamn year?  

Yes that's what he told me and I gather he told me that because he was cornered or he didn't know because he never evaluated my son.  He actually told my son he would eventually pitch him but never did.

I'll say this.  There are good, bad and ugly HS coaches.  HS coaching is 100% different from any other coaching.  Unlike MLB, Travel, and even Rec., HS coaches don't get to pick their players.  They are stuck with what shows up.  Thus, IMO, the good HS coaches take a look at the first day or two and then have to figure out what they are going to do.  One year he may have mashers focus on the long ball, the next he may have speed and small ball comes into play.  You need to adjust.  Unfortunately, many coaches don't adjust.  They can get stubborn and play the way that "always" worked. 

They can also out think themselves.  We are weak on pitching this coming year.  Kid with the strongest arm -- not pitching.  No clue why.  My kid played catcher as a freshman -- every inning.  Come summer, he asks the coach to play 3rd, or outfield, or pitch.  Coach tells him no, we see you as a catcher.  Come spring and suddenly they want to see him at 3B.  Well, you could have seen that all summer. 

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

Again, where do you work? I'm sure there are plenty here who can tell you how to do your job.

i know straight up, if a kid tries to tell me that he/she needs their ankles taped or better yet a parent or coach says he/she needs their ankle taped, they are often shown the door! Why is it parents think they can give orders into how somebody else does their job?

Ok so how does my son pitch in your world if you are the parent and he had a coach that didn't listen to him?

You said the coach told you he never knew your son could pitch?  What reason did he give your son when he did ask about pitching in his Freshamn year?  

Yes that's what he told me and I gather he told me that because he was cornered or he didn't know because he never evaluated my son.  He actually told my son he would eventually pitch him but never did.

Define "evaluate my son". 

There are good and bad leaders in the real world. I'm betting everyone at least forty has been under at least one person they didn't care for. You make the best of the situation. Sometimes you outlast the person. Sometimes you eventually move on.

Politics? Unless your name is Ford don't expect to ever be the Chairman of the Board at Ford Motor Company.

bballdad2016 posted:

Last question and I'll drop it.  Why didn't the coach let your son pitch when he was a Freshamn?  Didn't you say that he told you that he didn't know your son could pitch, yet your son told him several times? He had to have given a reason to your son throughout the several times he approached him during his freshman season. 

I wish I knew why he never pitched my son, he never gave a reason.  He told my son he would eventually pitch him but never did.  I felt this was my only recourse.  Only other option was to wait another year and hope and keep fingers crossed, I am not made that way.

bballdad2016 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

mdschert posted:

Bulldog 19 posted:

It sure is interesting here how "defending a high school coach is obviously so wrong." But defending a parent is "absolutely the right thing to do.

 

OP, I have to ask: what do you do for a living? And how can we tell you how to do your job better? I'm sure there's somebody here who clearly knows what needs to be done that you don't know...

If a parent is not an advocate for their son who is?  Son tried to tell coach he could pitch, coach wouldn't listen and did not give opportunity.  I felt obligated to let the coach know.  With his season PG tounaments ERA of .462 we know he can pitch, it was just his HS coach that didn't know.

Again, where do you work? I'm sure there are plenty here who can tell you how to do your job.

i know straight up, if a kid tries to tell me that he/she needs their ankles taped or better yet a parent or coach says he/she needs their ankle taped, they are often shown the door! Why is it parents think they can give orders into how somebody else does their job?

Ok so how does my son pitch in your world if you are the parent and he had a coach that didn't listen to him?

You said the coach told you he never knew your son could pitch?  What reason did he give your son when he did ask about pitching in his Freshamn year?  

Yes that's what he told me and I gather he told me that because he was cornered or he didn't know because he never evaluated my son.  He actually told my son he would eventually pitch him but never did.

Define "evaluate my son". 

Son never threw a pitch in either bullpen or game.

Listen, the cream rises to the top!

I'm in the camp that says "Let the kid prove himself". Instead of just asking, your kid could/SHOULD have just tried out for the coach, this usually happens in the fall (at least in Texas). Doesn't matter all the "changing schools"... WORD travels in baseball circles faster than a California wildfire with Santa Anna winds pushing it! So, I don't get OP explanation...No excuses, no room for self grandiosity in baseball...ever!

Once a ballplayer get to 8th grade, certainly freshman HS, it is HIS responsibility to perform in order to make the best contribution to the TEAM. Coaches are in it to win...They are there to "dance with the one that brung 'em"...

The only interference (input, to be nicer) from a parent to a coach should be in consideration of injury/ arm health. And then, it's a parents' responsibility to teach his kid what arm health is all about! Playing time is between the player & coach, depending on TEAM needs. Player position is between the player & coach, depending on TEAM needs. Period!

cabbagedad, Ironhorse, Rob T, Coach May...Right on the money!

This from a mom of a pro player. 

I feel talking to the HC can have an effect on things. 2016 last home field start I had a talk with HC. passed on to him after 2016 won today his next win would give him 30 varsity wins for HS carear. He told me he didn't know that.I tell him if 2016 wins semi at regional to get 2-3 of game balls and  I wil get something nice made up for all of us and give 1-2 back to coaching staff. HC tells me sounds good..........................HC pulls 2016  after 4 full of perfect game. Wins semi finishes carear with 29 V wins. 

baseballmom posted:

Listen, the cream rises to the top!

I'm in the camp that says "Let the kid prove himself". Instead of just asking, your kid could/SHOULD have just tried out for the coach, this usually happens in the fall (at least in Texas). Doesn't matter all the "changing schools"... WORD travels in baseball circles faster than a California wildfire with Santa Anna winds pushing it! So, I don't get OP explanation...No excuses, no room for self grandiosity in baseball...ever!

Once a ballplayer get to 8th grade, certainly freshman HS, it is HIS responsibility to perform in order to make the best contribution to the TEAM. Coaches are in it to win...They are there to "dance with the one that brung 'em"...

The only interference (input, to be nicer) from a parent to a coach should be in consideration of injury/ arm health. And then, it's a parents' responsibility to teach his kid what arm health is all about! Playing time is between the player & coach, depending on TEAM needs. Player position is between the player & coach, depending on TEAM needs. Period!

cabbagedad, Ironhorse, Rob T, Coach May...Right on the money!

This from a mom of a pro player. 

I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

This subject is about a coach that doesn't know a player can pitch and will not listen to the player that tells him so.

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

Define "evaluate my son". 

Son never threw a pitch in either bullpen or game.

How is that a definition?

Nope, read the whole thread. Parents have no business informing a HS coach what their little Johnny can or can't do . It is little Johnny's job to demonstrate his skills to the coach.

Are you saying this Coach DID NOT have any tryouts?

mdschert posted:I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

This subject is about a coach that doesn't know a player can pitch and will not listen to the player that tells him so.

You are assuming because a kid says he can pitch, it means he can pitch. I have kids tell me they do all kinds of things on the baseball field (I pitch, I play CF, I hit bombs)...but after I see them (aka evaluation) I may disagree.

I keep calling Mike Matheny and telling him I can hit 3-hole (not 3rd hole, semantics, I know). The jerk won't listen to me though, so I'm having my dad call.

ironhorse posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

Define "evaluate my son". 

Son never threw a pitch in either bullpen or game.

How is that a definition?

Well wouldn't a player throw a pitch to be evaluated as a pitcher?  This is really getting ridiculous.

baseballmom posted:

Nope, read the whole thread. Parents have no business informing a HS coach what their little Johnny can or can't do . It is little Johnny's job to demonstrate his skills to the coach.

Are you saying this Coach DID NOT have any tryouts?

No tryouts more like workouts, small school.  Little Johnny never threw a pitch entire season.  Little Johnny tried to tell coach but coach didn't listen.

mdschert posted:

ironhorse posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

Define "evaluate my son". 

Son never threw a pitch in either bullpen or game.

How is that a definition?

Well wouldn't a player throw a pitch to be evaluated as a pitcher?  This is really getting ridiculous.

Not always. What if he throws 43 mph? Or 125 feet? I'm not wasting time putting him on the mound. 

Video of your son and I can easily pick a side. But right now I'm just guessing at reasons he didn't pitch. So? You got to have something on your phone of him throwing. 

No, just read entire thread. Its about  a dad talking to the coach about playing time. 

ironhorse posted:

mdschert posted:I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

This subject is about a coach that doesn't know a player can pitch and will not listen to the player that tells him so.

You are assuming because a kid says he can pitch, it means he can pitch. I have kids tell me they do all kinds of things on the baseball field (I pitch, I play CF, I hit bombs)...but after I see them (aka evaluation) I may disagree.

I keep calling Mike Matheny and telling him I can hit 3-hole (not 3rd hole, semantics, I know). The jerk won't listen to me though, so I'm having my dad call.

Like I said before son earned season .462 ERA playing high end PG tournaments so I think we can get past that little Johnny can't pitch.

mdschert posted:

ironhorse posted:

mdschert posted:I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch.  You must be on the wrong post.

This subject is about a coach that doesn't know a player can pitch and will not listen to the player that tells him so.

You are assuming because a kid says he can pitch, it means he can pitch. I have kids tell me they do all kinds of things on the baseball field (I pitch, I play CF, I hit bombs)...but after I see them (aka evaluation) I may disagree.

I keep calling Mike Matheny and telling him I can hit 3-hole (not 3rd hole, semantics, I know). The jerk won't listen to me though, so I'm having my dad call.

Like I said before son earned season .462 ERA playing high end PG tournaments so I think we can get past that little Johnny can't pitch.

The "high end" summer ball argument. Never heard that one. Have PG profile you can link to? Or video from the high end tournament?