HS coach needed little coaching from parent

So your Son never told his HS coach that he could pitch, when he was a Freshman?  

I have't met one parent who has been happy  with the HS coaching and I know parents from 8 or 10 local HS's. It can be very political, and usually is. It took a while before my son was noticed, but once he was, it all worked out. I look at HS as a place to not get hurt, to work on new pitches and get some strength training.

bballdad2016 posted:

So your Son never told his HS coach that he could pitch, when he was a Freshman?  

My son told the coaches several times including HC that he can pitch.  Believe me, my son is not the quiet shy type

Nonamedad posted:

I have't met one parent who has been happy  with the HS coaching and I know parents from 8 or 10 local HS's. It can be very political, and usually is. It took a while before my son was noticed, but once he was, it all worked out. I look at HS as a place to not get hurt, to work on new pitches and get some strength training.

I don't believe any politics were involved, coach just didn't believe he could pitch.  I strongly believe that if I hadn't said anything my son would not have had the opportunity to pitch.

This is not a bad thing by any means.  If your sons team was that weak on the mound, then not pitching is probably the best thing for him in the long run.  Teams with only one quality pitcher will pitch the kid until he can't pitch anymore.  I have seen it at every level that my son played.  From 9-10 year old travel ball up till his Sr. year.   

When your son got to the travel team he should have told the coach while he didn't pitch for the school team he is a pitcher.

A friend didn't see the mound for his high school and Legion team until his senior year. He was stuck behind a lot of talent. He went on to pitch for a D1 that went to the CWS. If you're a pitcher you don't keep it to yourself.

RJM posted:

When your son got to the travel team he should have told the coach while he didn't pitch for the school team he is a pitcher.

...

That's the first thought that came to my mind as well.  Also, most kids are quite different players after their sophomore season as compared to two years prior.  

This is the other thought that came to mind... There are an awful lot of dots that don't connect with the story - Kid told coach several times he could pitch.  Dad told coach and coach said he didn't know kid could pitch.  ???

Coach could very well have overlooked the kid but based on the info provided, there are a whole lot of other possibilities as well.  So, not sure if I buy into the moral of the story.

In any case, glad to hear the player is finding success and agree with another comment that it could very well work out for the best in the long run.

Best wishes to him going forward.

HS is HS,  your son need to keep talking to the HC and have fun there even if he does not pitch.  Exposure will come through his travel program.

cabbagedad posted:

RJM posted:

When your son got to the travel team he should have told the coach while he didn't pitch for the school team he is a pitcher.

...

That's the first thought that came to my mind as well.  Also, most kids are quite different players after their sophomore season as compared to two years prior.  

This is the other thought that came to mind... There are an awful lot of dots that don't connect with the story - Kid told coach several times he could pitch.  Dad told coach and coach said he didn't know kid could pitch.  ???

Coach could very well have overlooked the kid but based on the info provided, there are a whole lot of other possibilities as well.  So, not sure if I buy into the moral of the story.

In any case, glad to hear the player is finding success and agree with another comment that it could very well work out for the best in the long run.

Best wishes to him going forward.

I believe the HS HC said that because he was cornered or he didn't know because he never tried to pitch my son.  Regardless son needed help from dad because the coach would not listen/believe son, not the best situation but felt I needed to act.  I believe he had a better chance at pitching for his HS than travel.  His travel team is high level and has 7 PO's, I just don't see them experimenting with pitchers.

Something just doesn't add up.  I'm glad it all worked out for your son though. 

bballdad2016 posted:

Something just doesn't add up.  I'm glad it all worked out for your son though. 

Not sure what doesn't add up.  Be happy to answer any questions.

"Coach could very well have overlooked the kid but based on the info provided, there are a whole lot of other possibilities as well.  So, not sure if I buy into the moral of the story."

Cabbagedad - so you would not talk to the coach and keep your fingers crossed and hope that the coach would listen to your son the next year?  Please explain.

First thing we do is test kids, including velo and distance. Any kid with an above average arm becomes a pitcher until he proves he isn't. Some kids may not have the arm strength yet, but will a a good looking arm action and we'll try them as well. I have lots of kids tell me they're pitchers who can't throw the ball across the infield. They don't get a shot.

Coaches don't shun HS freshman who are proven pitchers based on "politics." Sorry, that's an age old excuse.

OK, sorry, I realize I am now going down the road of just being a PITA stringing this thing out.  But I also admit to being a bit defensive when it is implied that a parent had to step in to tell the coach what the right playing decisions are... 

..even more doesn't sound right.

You painted the picture that he was an outstanding and recognized pitcher coming out of 8th grade.  He told HC he pitches, the team had otherwise lousy pitching and HC still didn't give him a shot to pitch ???   Has to be more to that story.

He put up lights-out numbers at high level PG tourneys playing up as a 17u but you didn't think he was good enough to ask for a look for the previous travel team that had 7 PO's ???   So, if he improved that much in this short period of time, maybe the HS coach was correct in his perception that he wasn't quite ready for that level at that time. ???

I had three different parents try to tell me this year I should be pitching their sons with my V team (which is three more than I've ever had).  Of course, those parents were among the very few that missed the parent meeting when the ground rules were spelled out.

 With one, I acknowledged that he has raw talent but was nowhere near ready to step on a V mound and that he had other issues to address off the field.  From that point through summer ball, the kid proved me a thousand times right.  The parents still feel cheated.  They seriously told me It's my fault that he couldn't manage to attend half of my mandatory workouts (actually that I must have been mistaking their son for another when I had him marked as absent), failed to remain grade-eligible and got in trouble outside of school.   I have stuck with efforts to try to help the kid.  We finally got him on the mound in summer ball.  He flashed the raw talent but was totally oblivious with some of his baseball decisions.  I'm not giving up on him, regardless of that "parent talk" where they told me I sent him into a spiral putting him on JV instead of V as a soph.  This, even though five other coaches were 100% in agreement on the assessment.

With another, he also had raw talent but had a history of a very high BB ratio.  I told him he would need to improve that aspect before we could put him on a V mound.  In spite of the fact that he didn't really improve in that area, we reached a point where I offered for him to come up so we can work with his mechanics more closely.  After one game of sitting on the V bench, parent was pissed because he didn't play in the game.  He wanted to go back to JV  (mostly because he had mom in his ear telling him how his talent was being wasted on the bench).  Great kid... fighting an uphill battle with some of the things the parent is putting in his head.  I'm still not giving up on that one either.

Another parent told me if I forced his kid on the mound, I would be pleasantly surprised at how he would perform. I had already talked to the kid.  He had been bugging me to throw bullpens but I could tell it was halfhearted.  I asked him if he wanted to work bullpens and try to earn a few innings.  First he said yeah he wanted to pitch.  When I dug a little deeper, he was quick to tell me he didn't like the pressure of being on a mound in a game and only wanted to pitch in bullpens.  Varsity baseball.  Yeah, that'll work.  Dad was a college tennis player.  When he threw this "advice" to me about his son, I asked if his college coach ever had to force him to play singles.  The kid is a good OF.  As it is, one of the other coaches wants the kid off the team because he is sort of a black sheep and has a hard time acting respectfully.  I like the kid, recognize lack of guidance and continue to try and help him work through it. 

Just a few true stories that illustrate some of the things that go on behind those ignorant coaching decisions, sitting or not promoting kids with talent.   I'm sure a few more "little talks" from the parents will help me right the ship, though.

mdschert posted:

"Coach could very well have overlooked the kid but based on the info provided, there are a whole lot of other possibilities as well.  So, not sure if I buy into the moral of the story."

 

Cabbagedad - so you would not talk to the coach and keep your fingers crossed and hope that the coach would listen to your son the next year?  Please explain.

Absolutely 100% no.  I'm a HS coach but I also have three grown kids who all played multiple sports in HS and some beyond.  So, combined, I think they have had literally hundreds of coaches during their time in sports.  Only once have I ever felt the need as a parent to step in and talk to one of the HS coaches.  This was a coach who actually loved my kid and played him probably more than he should have, so it wasn't about my son's PT or position.  It was about kid's arm health and development issue along with some other things that everyone else was afraid to bring up.

 Particularly once they get to HS, they earn their own playing time and will play the position the team/program/coach determines they will best contribute.  If they don't get what they want, they need to work harder to earn it.  PERIOD.  If the player tells the coach multiple times that they can play a position, why would I, as a parent, feel the need to say it again?  

cabbagedad posted:

OK, sorry, I realize I am now going down the road of just being a PITA stringing this thing out.  But I also admit to being a bit defensive when it is implied that a parent had to step in to tell the coach what the right playing decisions are... 

..even more doesn't sound right.

You painted the picture that he was an outstanding and recognized pitcher coming out of 8th grade.  He told HC he pitches, the team had otherwise lousy pitching and HC still didn't give him a shot to pitch ???   Has to be more to that story.

He put up lights-out numbers at high level PG tourneys playing up as a 17u but you didn't think he was good enough to ask for a look for the previous travel team that had 7 PO's ???   So, if he improved that much in this short period of time, maybe the HS coach was correct in his perception that he wasn't quite ready for that level at that time. ???

I had three different parents try to tell me this year I should be pitching their sons with my V team (which is three more than I've ever had).  Of course, those parents were among the very few that missed the parent meeting when the ground rules were spelled out.

 With one, I acknowledged that he has raw talent but was nowhere near ready to step on a V mound and that he had other issues to address off the field.  From that point through summer ball, the kid proved me a thousand times right.  The parents still feel cheated.  They seriously told me It's my fault that he couldn't manage to attend half of my mandatory workouts (actually that I must have been mistaking their son for another when I had him marked as absent), failed to remain grade-eligible and got in trouble outside of school.   I have stuck with efforts to try to help the kid.  We finally got him on the mound in summer ball.  He flashed the raw talent but was totally oblivious with some of his baseball decisions.  I'm not giving up on him, regardless of that "parent talk" where they told me I sent him into a spiral putting him on JV instead of V as a soph.  This, even though five other coaches were 100% in agreement on the assessment.

With another, he also had raw talent but had a history of a very high BB ratio.  I told him he would need to improve that aspect before we could put him on a V mound.  In spite of the fact that he didn't really improve in that area, we reached a point where I offered for him to come up so we can work with his mechanics more closely.  After one game of sitting on the V bench, parent was pissed because he didn't play in the game.  He wanted to go back to JV  (mostly because he had mom in his ear telling him how his talent was being wasted on the bench).  Great kid... fighting an uphill battle with some of the things the parent is putting in his head.  I'm still not giving up on that one either.

Another parent told me if I forced his kid on the mound, I would be pleasantly surprised at how he would perform. I had already talked to the kid.  He had been bugging me to throw bullpens but I could tell it was halfhearted.  I asked him if he wanted to work bullpens and try to earn a few innings.  First he said yeah he wanted to pitch.  When I dug a little deeper, he was quick to tell me he didn't like the pressure of being on a mound in a game and only wanted to pitch in bullpens.  Varsity baseball.  Yeah, that'll work.  Dad was a college tennis player.  When he threw this "advice" to me about his son, I asked if his college coach ever had to force him to play singles.  The kid is a good OF.  As it is, one of the other coaches wants the kid off the team because he is sort of a black sheep and has a hard time acting respectfully.  I like the kid, recognize lack of guidance and continue to try and help him work through it. 

Just a few true stories that illustrate some of the things that go on behind those ignorant coaching decisions, sitting or not promoting kids with talent.   I'm sure a few more "little talks" from the parents will help me right the ship, though.

 

It was a different private school from 8th to 9th so maybe that caused some confusion.  His travel team has been the same for last two years, the entire team played up in 17u tournaments.  He didn't get a shot at travel pitching until 2nd year after a travel coach saw him pitch at a HS game.  I know it's stranger than fiction but imagine my resolve and tongue biting for his entire freshman season watching JV lose over and over.  I can't explain HS coach for not pitching him.  I am just glad he did listen to me.  I just wanted him to get an opportunity.  

What other position does your son play and why the school change? Yes, I know he went from 8th grade to HS but why not stick with the HS that was affiliated with his 8th grade year? 

ironhorse posted:

First thing we do is test kids, including velo and distance. Any kid with an above average arm becomes a pitcher until he proves he isn't. Some kids may not have the arm strength yet, but will a a good looking arm action and we'll try them as well. I have lots of kids tell me they're pitchers who can't throw the ball across the infield. They don't get a shot.

Coaches don't shun HS freshman who are proven pitchers based on "politics." Sorry, that's an age old excuse.

Not sure where you live, don't let the Unicorn horn poke you tho. I know  3 kids who were given preferential treatment to include pitching based on their family standing in the community. 

Nonamedad, you seem to be at a school that you don't particularly care for.  Based on your posts, that is. 

Nonamedad posted:

ironhorse posted:

First thing we do is test kids, including velo and distance. Any kid with an above average arm becomes a pitcher until he proves he isn't. Some kids may not have the arm strength yet, but will a a good looking arm action and we'll try them as well. I have lots of kids tell me they're pitchers who can't throw the ball across the infield. They don't get a shot.

Coaches don't shun HS freshman who are proven pitchers based on "politics." Sorry, that's an age old excuse.

Not sure where you live, don't let the Unicorn horn poke you tho. I know  3 kids who were given preferential treatment to include pitching based on their family standing in the community. 

No unicorns here. I'm the guy who determines if a kid plays for "political" reasons. I say by and large, 98% of the time or so, the kid simply isn't good enough to play, or there are off field factors that parents don't know/are in denial about. 

I know preferential treatment occurs in limited instances, but no where near the amount of time people use it as the crutch it is. Generally when I hear "politics" I roll my eyes. 

" Particularly once they get to HS, they earn their own playing time and will play the position the team/program/coach determines they will best contribute.  If they don't get what they want, they need to work harder to earn it.  PERIOD.  If the player tells the coach multiple times that they can play a position, why would I, as a parent, feel the need to say it again? "

Cabbagedad - I would say you are mostly right with this statement and probably works well for you but in my son's case he never got the opportunity until I spoke with the coach.  My son did his part, he spoke to the coach several times.  In our case it was well worth a discussion with the coach.

bballdad2016 posted:

What other position does your son play and why the school change? Yes, I know he went from 8th grade to HS but why not stick with the HS that was affiliated with his 8th grade year? 

He plays 3rd base now.  Our family became disenchanted with his school and didn't want to risk HS, we found a better school nearby and didn't look back.

mdschert posted:

" Particularly once they get to HS, they earn their own playing time and will play the position the team/program/coach determines they will best contribute.  If they don't get what they want, they need to work harder to earn it.  PERIOD.  If the player tells the coach multiple times that they can play a position, why would I, as a parent, feel the need to say it again? "

 

Cabbagedad - I would say you are mostly right with this statement and probably works well for you but in my son's case he never got the opportunity until I spoke with the coach.  My son did his part, he spoke to the coach several times.  In our case it was well worth a discussion with the coach.

OK, I'll just leave the discussion with a few last points.  For me, this is clearly the type of thing where you let young people learn how to stand for themselves.  Provide guidance, yes.  Do it for them, no.  Sometimes, that means doing so even when it means they miss out on something you would both like them to have.

Our school, as well as several others I am aware of, has policies in place that prohibit parents from talking to coaches about playing time, squad assignment and position decisions.  I believe this policy has solid merit.

Lastly, I tend to take a strong stand behind the principals of sports life lessons.  I know that there are exception situations where my position is wrong.  I just don't always know when that is.

Still, glad it has worked out for your son.

Nonamedad posted:

I have't met one parent who has been happy  with the HS coaching and I know parents from 8 or 10 local HS's. It can be very political, and usually is. It took a while before my son was noticed, but once he was, it all worked out. I look at HS as a place to not get hurt, to work on new pitches and get some strength training.

You've "met" your first person who is perfectly happy with our high school coaching.  I feel like our coach has the best interest and health of the boys as his primary concern.  He is very competitive and loves to win but never at the expense of the boys.  He also rewards loyalty.  Those who work hard and stick with the program are rewarded.  Maybe others believe that is politics or playing favorites.  Usually those people are the ones who don't want to work very hard. 

"For me, this is clearly the type of thing where you let young people learn how to stand for themselves.  Provide guidance, yes.  Do it for them, no.  Sometimes, that means doing so even when it means they miss out on something you would both like them to have."

CABBAGEDAD - My son did stand up for himself several times to no avail.  I wasn't going to let another entire year go by without coach knowing my son can pitch.  The coach got an entire year (very generous in my book) to get it right but failed.  Hard to believe you would put that kind of blind trust into a HS coach for the sake of principle.  I am not the kind of parent to cross my fingers and hope things turn out OK.

Nonamedad posted:

I have't met one parent who has been happy  with the HS coaching and I know parents from 8 or 10 local HS's. It can be very political, and usually is. It took a while before my son was noticed, but once he was, it all worked out. I look at HS as a place to not get hurt, to work on new pitches and get some strength training.

...and now you've met two who think their son's HS coach was fantastic.   In fact, maybe the best coach any of my kids ever had.  

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

What other position does your son play and why the school change? Yes, I know he went from 8th grade to HS but why not stick with the HS that was affiliated with his 8th grade year? 

He plays 3rd base now.  Our family became disenchanted with his school and didn't want to risk HS, we found a better school nearby and didn't look back.

Maybe he was more valuable at 3rd than on the mound?  Our starting catcher is a great pitcher, but when you take him from behind the plate and put him on the mound, it get ugly quick!  and not because he's on the mound. 

I'm confused a bit on this.

I've yet to see a coach at one of the first practices of a new season not ask which players pitch and then take a look at them.  Was this team's pitcher's decided by coin flip, or did your son not pipe up at the appropriate time?

Why in the world would you invest in a travel team without establishing what your son's place is on the team?  Why would any travel team take on a player without establishing what a player can do for the team?  Unless the team is just a money grab, it should have a plan on who its pitchers are, who position players are, and who can do both. The players should know before joining the team what their role is expected to be.  If it doesn't fit in with the player's and desires, then he should be looking for another team.

Why would a travel coach bother asking who pitches for their HS?  What difference does that make?  If a coach needs to rely on the judgment of other coaches to set his rotation for him, what good is he?

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

Dad#1 - My son can pitch.

Dad#2 - My son can play SS.

Dad#3 - My son can play CF.

Dad#4 - My son can catch.

Dad#5 - My son can play 3B.

Dad#6 - MY son can play 2nd.

Dad#7 - My son can play 1st.

Dad#8 - My son can play LF.

Dad#9 - My son can play RF.

Dad#10 - My son can DH.

Dad#11 -  My son can be the DR for P.

Dad#12 - My son can be the DR for C.

Dad#13 - Your screwed.

Dad#14 - I was screwed.

Dad#15 - Let's go fishing.

Rob T posted:

I'm confused a bit on this.

I've yet to see a coach at one of the first practices of a new season not ask which players pitch and then take a look at them.  Was this team's pitcher's decided by coin flip, or did your son not pipe up at the appropriate time?

Why in the world would you invest in a travel team without establishing what your son's place is on the team?  Why would any travel team take on a player without establishing what a player can do for the team?  Unless the team is just a money grab, it should have a plan on who its pitchers are, who position players are, and who can do both. The players should know before joining the team what their role is expected to be.  If it doesn't fit in with the player's and desires, then he should be looking for another team.

Why would a travel coach bother asking who pitches for their HS?  What difference does that make?  If a coach needs to rely on the judgment of other coaches to set his rotation for him, what good is he?

No issues with travel team, they brought him on to play third base.  He didn't get the opportunity to pitch travel until a travel coach happen to see him pitch at HS.   He didn't get to pitch HS until I said something to the coach.  It was a chain reaction.  I really cannot explain why the HS didn't give him an opportunity.

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

LivingtheDream posted:

Nonamedad posted:

I have't met one parent who has been happy  with the HS coaching and I know parents from 8 or 10 local HS's. It can be very political, and usually is. It took a while before my son was noticed, but once he was, it all worked out. I look at HS as a place to not get hurt, to work on new pitches and get some strength training.

You've "met" your first person who is perfectly happy with our high school coaching.  I feel like our coach has the best interest and health of the boys as his primary concern.  He is very competitive and loves to win but never at the expense of the boys.  He also rewards loyalty.  Those who work hard and stick with the program are rewarded.  Maybe others believe that is politics or playing favorites.  Usually those people are the ones who don't want to work very hard. 

Last point, then I'm out. I'm glad you guys have great situations, I really am, but at our HS it's not. Coach invited 3 football players to try out, all sophomores, all could run like the wind, all couldn't field, hit, or throw, all made varsity, all quit a week after first practice to run track. Coach was humiliated and lost all parent respect. 2 kids on Freshman team, didn't look right, one was son of vice principle at one of the middle schools, other was son of district HR manager. Tell the 3 juniors who had been with the school every year since freshman who were left on JV to make room for the football players it's all about hard work and dedication.  No it's never politics, life is always fair and just.  

I'm not questioning your integrity at all.  You miss read my post, which happens from time to time in forums.  

Heres what I think happened from reading your posts and explanations.  I could be wrong, but here it goes...

your son played in a small private school and pitched well against other middle school kids.  Keep in mind, he was in 8th grade pitching to 6th, 7th, and 8th graders in a private school system.  So yeah, he should do well against them.  You probably thought he was the bomb, and transferred him to a larger school with a better baseball program.  Sure, he can pitch.  But he's probably not as developed as the other kids on the HS roster.  Played third on JV (which is good) but you aren't happy.  So you approach the HS coach after the season and to save you embarrassment he says, "I had no idea he could pitch?"  you find a travel ball team but they don't know he can pitch.  That leads me to believe that you found them rather than they found you.  Any team that doesn't know the positions of the players prior to the first workout/practice is a money grab in my opinion.  Anyhow, since your shucking out the dinero, the travel ball team gives your kid some mound time.  And now your saying "told you so!"  

Again, glad it worked out for your son.  But please don't think that telling a HS coach how and where to play his players is the right thing to do. It's bad for the team, bad for your kid, and kinda makes you look... Well, bad.  

Just my 2 cents.  

Nonamedad posted:

Last point, then I'm out. I'm glad you guys have great situations, I really am, but at our HS it's not. Coach invited 3 football players to try out, all sophomores, all could run like the wind, all couldn't field, hit, or throw, all made varsity, all quit a week after first practice to run track. Coach was humiliated and lost all parent respect. 2 kids on Freshman team, didn't look right, one was son of vice principle at one of the middle schools, other was son of district HR manager. Tell the 3 juniors who had been with the school every year since freshman who were left on JV to make room for the football players it's all about hard work and dedication.  No it's never politics, life is always fair and just.  

 

Here's the deal.  My kids have had many great teachers...and a few who were terrible and I can surely find 8-10 parents who agree with me.  That doesn't translate into, 'I haven't met one parent who has been happy with the HS teaching.'  You can never again write that with regards to HS coaches. The score is now 8 or 10-2.

No doubt it stinks when you have a bad coach...or a bad teacher.  My kids have had them.  I don't run to 8-10 other parents to find out if they agree and I don't tell my kid their coach/teacher stinks.  We fall more on the side of mentoring them on how to deal with difficult or even bad bosses - it will come up again in life.  Perhaps many times.

No doubt politics or favoritism enters the equation sometimes.  But guess what?  That will never go away.  Not in college, not in the pros...not in life.  How are you going to teach your kid (in HS) to deal with it?  Throw up his arms and say, 'Thats it, I'm screwed!' or fight back/stand up for himself either with his own dialogue with his boss/teacher/coach or with his play/performance?

Built in advantages are part of life.  Frankly, the majority of these political claims on a baseball field I have seen were more the parents misreading of the situation than not.  But when they exist (or are perceived to exist) I say learn now how to deal with them or forever be doomed to an inability to overcome them.

Nonamedad posted:

Tell the 3 juniors who had been with the school every year since freshman who were left on JV to make room for the football players it's all about hard work and dedication.  No it's never politics, life is always fair and just.  

 

Don't know your situation, but just because a kid is a junior and in the program for 3 years he's not guaranteed a thing. If there's a more talented kid that's just how it goes.

The word fair is for teenagers and lazy, entitled people.

Buzzard05 posted:

mdschert posted:

bballdad2016 posted:

I dont think you're confused Rob.  I think you're starting to pick up on it, actually.

bballdad2016 - Why would you go there?  Why question my integrity?  Why does it have to get ugly like that?  

...because that is how a good portion of this board works.  If you question a HS coach, you are most likely wrong, uneducated, playing favoritism toward your son, etc.  I have seen a TON of these threads and they ALWAYS make this turn the longer they go on.

The point is in this case, it is coming off a parent showing he is smarter than the coach - while presenting facts that don't support this contention.

The facts presented run contrary to the way the vast majority of programs operate - and serve only to highlight the OP's contention that the coach needed his "help".  There are numerous other factors at play that are being swept aside in order to fit the narrative.

There are certainly bad coaches out there, politics often come into play - I don't think anyone here who has been through the HS experience would deny that.  However, these things are often used as a crutch when a parent doesn't see their kid getting whatever playing time/respect that the parent expects.  So, when a poster jumps in with a recycle of "I'm smarter than the coach" - it's going to be looked at with a critical eye.

Coaches don't like dealing with parents because 99% of the time, the parent is looking through rose colored glasses at their child - and reality is at odds with what they believe.  How many times are they supposed to entertain conversations with parents over the same topic?  Parents don't realize that the coaches owe them nothing. If anything is owed it is to the player. The coach is there for them - not the people in the stands, not the people who show up on game day but never see hours of practice, not the people who don't have to make the difficult decisions but love to criticize them.

One of the reasons you hear posters say to let your kid handle the baseball issues, is because you are supposed to be teaching them how to be an adult.  They are going to need to be able to navigate the world without you holding the rudder for them. 

If you have to deal with baseball issues - what's next?  Talking to college professors, talking to future employers? At some point they have to take responsibility for their own path.  If they can't handle doing it with something as trivial as high school baseball - when are they going to learn?

For the record, my son hated the coach that headed his HS program for the past 2 seasons.  I don't think he came home from practice a single day without some issue.  My response was always the same - what are you going to do about it? I knew many times that he was right - but they weren't my battles to fight. 

bballdad2016 posted:

I'm not questioning your integrity at all.  You miss read my post, which happens from time to time in forums.  

Heres what I think happened from reading your posts and explanations.  I could be wrong, but here it goes...

your son played in a small private school and pitched well against other middle school kids.  Keep in mind, he was in 8th grade pitching to 6th, 7th, and 8th graders in a private school system.  So yeah, he should do well against them.  You probably thought he was the bomb, and transferred him to a larger school with a better baseball program.  Sure, he can pitch.  But he's probably not as developed as the other kids on the HS roster.  Played third on JV (which is good) but you aren't happy.  So you approach the HS coach after the season and to save you embarrassment he says, "I had no idea he could pitch?"  you find a travel ball team but they don't know he can pitch.  That leads me to believe that you found them rather than they found you.  Any team that doesn't know the positions of the players prior to the first workout/practice is a money grab in my opinion.  Anyhow, since your shucking out the dinero, the travel ball team gives your kid some mound time.  And now your saying "told you so!"  

Again, glad it worked out for your son.  But please don't think that telling a HS coach how and where to play his players is the right thing to do. It's bad for the team, bad for your kid, and kinda makes you look... Well, bad.  

Just my 2 cents.  

Yes it is continuing to be ugly.  Yes you are wrong on all of your ugly assumptions.  Why be so petulant?  Son transferred to smaller school with a struggling baseball program.  We didn't transfer because of baseball as you infer.  His travel team invited him on to play 3rd base not knowing he could pitch, we didn't advertise his pitching.  Travel team already had established PO's.  The travel team is not the issue here.  

The issue here is a HS HC did not give an opportunity for a player to pitch and after a full season I felt I needed to get involved.  I am very glad and not embarrassed in the least to get involved in this scenario.  The HS HC should be the one embarrassed.  My son missed an entire year of pitching because of his mistake and would have been another year if I hadn't said anything.