Go44dad posted:No, just read entire thread. Its about a dad talking to the coach about playing time.
No such thing in the least, Its about a coach that didn't know his player could pitch and didn't listen to player.
ironhorse posted:mdschert posted:ironhorse posted:mdschert posted:I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch. You must be on the wrong post.I guess you are assuming the coach already knows a kid can pitch. You must be on the wrong post.
This subject is about a coach that doesn't know a player can pitch and will not listen to the player that tells him so.
You are assuming because a kid says he can pitch, it means he can pitch. I have kids tell me they do all kinds of things on the baseball field (I pitch, I play CF, I hit bombs)...but after I see them (aka evaluation) I may disagree.
I keep calling Mike Matheny and telling him I can hit 3-hole (not 3rd hole, semantics, I know). The jerk won't listen to me though, so I'm having my dad call.
Like I said before son earned season .462 ERA playing high end PG tournaments so I think we can get past that little Johnny can't pitch.
The "high end" summer ball argument. Never heard that one. Have PG profile you can link to? Or video from the high end tournament?
So...... you are saying PG tournaments are not high profile or are you questioning my integrity?
Not all PG tournaments have the same talent level. That's common sense. "High end" is subjective based on the viewer.
I've had a difference of opinion on more than one Dad's evaluation of their kid. I would just like to see it with my own eyes. If that offends your integrity so be it.
mdschert posted:ironhorse posted:mdschert posted:bballdad2016 posted:Define "evaluate my son".
Son never threw a pitch in either bullpen or game.
How is that a definition?
Well wouldn't a player throw a pitch to be evaluated as a pitcher? This is really getting ridiculous.
Most coaches don't need to see a player throw a bullpen or pitch in a game to know if he is a possible pitcher.
Arm strength and accuracy can be seen in warmups. If the coach wants to see "X" and he never sees you do it - well, that's an evaluation.
Sometimes it's not about telling the coach you want to pitch, but showing him you have the tools.
Every single second of a tryout, practice or game is an evaluation.
Instead of a player telling the coach he can pitch, it's more effective to ask what he needs to do in order to get a chance to pitch. Then going out and doing it. Every single time.
I'd also forget about his ERA at "high end tournaments", PG or otherwise. None of his future coaches will care. My son pitched for a scout team last summer and had a sub 1 ERA and none of his HS coaches cared. Statistics show what you did. Coaches care about what you can do. The two aren't always in agreement.
"Telling" & demonstrating are 2 different things, Mdchert.
Too much just doesn't add up...
But, if it means so much to you to continue in self glorification (I told the coach yada yada yada), then go for it. A far better approach would be teach your son to fend for himself. He's a 2018...nearly a grown man. Let him sink or swim on his own merit...guide him, but don't fight HIS battles.
Don't tell coach anything, (unless it's a check for field equipment or upgrades to the program, with NO expectation of anything in return!)
Let's say your kid can pitch 100+mph and is the best thing since sliced bread....coaches loss for not pitching him, why would this upset you?
You seem to think your son HAD to be given the opportunity to pitch, like it was a foregone right, it wasn't.
baseballmom posted:"Telling" & demonstrating are 2 different things, Mdchert.
Too much just doesn't add up...
But, if it means so much to you to continue in self glorification (I told the coach yada yada yada), then go for it. A far better approach would be teach your son to fend for himself. He's a 2018...nearly a grown man. Let him sink or swim on his own merit...guide him, but don't fight HIS battles.
Don't tell coach anything, (unless it's a check for field equipment or upgrades to the program, with NO expectation of anything in return!)
We did your plan for an entire year and didn't work. Yes of course you want your son to defend himself and he did just that.
I know this post doesn't follow the narrative that all coaches are all knowing and perfect. This is one of those times where I felt a parent had to get involved, we played by your rules for a year and didn't work. I know when the narrative gets disturbed that cognitive dissonance steps in and it's uncomfortable. I understand it's difficult and know you can get through it. Checking out, the discussion now is absurd
OMG, you don't get it!
Performance is the key. IF your son performed, whether it was "more like workouts"as you put it, or practice, or game situations, the coach saw him...for a WHOLE year, as you put it (again). Obviously Coach did not need what your son was selling.
Why are you making this about you showing up a coach?
Please, no answer needed! 
mdschert posted:I know this post doesn't follow the narrative that all coaches are all knowing and perfect. This is one of those times where I felt a parent had to get involved - AND THEN GO ONLINE AND THUMP HIS CHEST ABOUT HOW HE "COACHED THE COACH" - we played by your rules for a year and didn't work.
There ya go. More truth for your narrative.
Just apply for the coaching job and be done with it.
mdschert posted:I know this post doesn't follow the narrative that all coaches are all knowing and perfect. This is one of those times where I felt a parent had to get involved, we played by your rules for a year and didn't work. I know when the narrative gets disturbed that cognitive dissonance steps in and it's uncomfortable. I understand it's difficult and know you can get through it. Checking out, the discussion now is absurd
See, here's where you are wrong.
No one here said coaches were perfect. My son's coach was god-awful. He was fired after this past season, and I was the first to cheer.
I can still stand here and tell you that getting involved in your son's high school baseball career will lead to consequences in the future that most of the long time posters have seen, and are trying to warn you of.
For every father who got his son mound time, there are 100 who sabotaged their son's relationship with the team. That's why you are getting these comments. You can take it for whatever you want, but this board is honest in its opinions without agenda.
In other words, congrats - it worked out for you, but painting this as the norm or a recommended course of action would be negligent from those who have seen the other side of the coin.
First problem w this post was the title given. It comes across IMO as condescending. Apparently your son just finished soph yr, where he pitched, so not sure why the post was started because it happened over a yr ago. Are u saying son is only pitching now because u stepped in?
I ques the thought that son was never given chance to pitch on Summer Team because they had enough pitchers as PO's . I've never seen a team who would turn down a good pitcher, u can always use a good closer. You never know if you re going to get through all games w healthy arms, so a good P WILL pitch. Did this Travel team not have tryouts?
In a past post you expressed opinion that it was ok to approach umpires(in your opinion)after a game to discuss a call/issue. So apparently you have no problem putting yourself in the middle of baseball business if you see fit. Hope that is not something you try if son gets to college level. It will not be tolerated and could hurt his playing time.
mdschert posted:I know this post doesn't follow the narrative that all coaches are all knowing and perfect. This is one of those times where I felt a parent had to get involved, we played by your rules for a year and didn't work. I know when the narrative gets disturbed that cognitive dissonance steps in and it's uncomfortable. I understand it's difficult and know you can get through it. Checking out, the discussion now is absurd
... "that all coaches are perfect" no one said they were.
..."I had to get involved..." No you didn't have to, you chose to. You couldn't accept your sons role on HIS team.
..."and it's uncomfortable" not really, most here seem to be fine with the conversation. Topics like this come up every now and again.
"Checking out now..." Well like I said, most here seem fine with the conversation.
Mdschert, I hope the best for you and your family. I wish your son the best of luck and much success on and off the baseball field. Most of what people have been saying to you (including me) is that you need to not interfere with your sons baseball experience. It's his and his alone to make what he wants of it. It is hard as a parent to watch things unfold sometimes. But look at it this way, don't you want him to say he earned it himself or that he accomplished something on his own. Please tell me your soon to be junior in high school does not know that you went running to his HS coach. I really hope his teammates don't know what you did. I can only imagine what he would be going through. Kids are brutal. Much more than we have been in this thread. Think about that.
So I've read this entire thread and two things strike me as entertaining.
- Both sides continue to try and convince the other side that they're right, and neither side will be satisfied until they get some validation from the other. No one will agree to disagree.
- TPM has refrained from chiming in (internet outage?).
Nuke83 posted:So I've read this entire thread and two things strike me as entertaining.
- Both sides continue to try and convince the other side that they're right, and neither side will be satisfied until they get some validation from the other. No one will agree to disagree.
- TPM has refrained from chiming in (internet outage?).
Referencing #2, Post of the day award goes to Nuke83
mdschert posted:So the moral of the story is that sometimes it might be OK to have a little talk with the HS coach.
First, I commend you for responding to all comers.
Second, IMO talking to the HS (or any other level) coach is a personal decision. You are obviously comfortable with your decision, but I would never have talked to my son's HS coach unless I had a safety concern. My son was good enough to start at C for his varsity team after freshman year. He played 3 years of varsity and never caught a game. He started at 1B the entire time, and did some closing senior year. He caught and was recruited at C while playing for his club team during summers before a knee injury moved him to 1B permanently. His HS baseball experience (and now college) was 100% his own. He had failures and successes, and he owned them all. In hindsight, I wouldn't change a thing. I can't think of a better, safer place for a kid to learn how to deal with adversity. Just my 2 cents.
Rob T posted:mdschert posted:I know this post doesn't follow the narrative that all coaches are all knowing and perfect. This is one of those times where I felt a parent had to get involved, we played by your rules for a year and didn't work. I know when the narrative gets disturbed that cognitive dissonance steps in and it's uncomfortable. I understand it's difficult and know you can get through it. Checking out, the discussion now is absurd
See, here's where you are wrong.
No one here said coaches were perfect. My son's coach was god-awful. He was fired after this past season, and I was the first to cheer.
I can still stand here and tell you that getting involved in your son's high school baseball career will lead to consequences in the future that most of the long time posters have seen, and are trying to warn you of.
For every father who got his son mound time, there are 100 who sabotaged their son's relationship with the team. That's why you are getting these comments. You can take it for whatever you want, but this board is honest in its opinions without agenda.
In other words, congrats - it worked out for you, but painting this as the norm or a recommended course of action would be negligent from those who have seen the other side of the coin.
Well, this thread got lengthy and painful - largely my fault. But, in the end, I think a whole lot of folks tried, in many different ways, to convey a helpful message to the OP. And that's one of the great things that happens on this site. Sometimes it gets ugly in the process. Sometimes that is necessary. I do admire mdschert's ability to stay civil throughout the thread. At some point, we agree to disagree and I think we have reached that point.
Edit - haha, Nuke, I swear I was typing this and posted before I saw your post.
bballdad2016 posted:Please tell me your soon to be junior in high school does not know that you went running to his HS coach. I really hope his teammates don't know what you did. I can only imagine what he would be going through. Kids are brutal. Much more than we have been in this thread. Think about that.
I found this comment interesting. When our older son was at Stanford, somehow the players knew when their parents talked to the coach...or posted something on an internet message board. It was really embarrassing for the player - that I heard from stories many times. I'm guessing they likely know in HS too.
Speaking from personal experience, kids say things that the coach wishes he could, but doesn't because he would get fired.
You can't be an objective advocate for your son. There will come a time when it would nice for him to have some. Coaches, team mates, former team mates, opposing coaches, opposing players and former opposing players. But those are few and far between once an individual becomes just that. Be careful. Players that can play earn advocates.
I will bow out of this thread now. Good luck to your son and you. I hope you guys enjoy the HS baseball experience. It goes by real fast.
bballdad2016 posted:Nuke83 posted:So I've read this entire thread and two things strike me as entertaining.
- Both sides continue to try and convince the other side that they're right, and neither side will be satisfied until they get some validation from the other. No one will agree to disagree.
- TPM has refrained from chiming in (internet outage?).
Referencing #2, Post of the day award goes to Nuke83
I refrained from chiming in because I think that I have said here, probably a million times, the only time a parent needs to talk to a coach is when there may be an injury issue or serious concern for one.
And...since the OP has indicated the pitching was pretty bad while his son was pretty good, wonder how he would have felt after speaking to him snd then was over used.
Again, be careful what you wish for!
You feel better now Nuke?
We all feel better!
Kumbaya....
TPM posted:You feel better now Nuke?