HS coaches - should I be concerned?

Personally at this point I would keep my mouth shut.  I know some will be concerned about the throwing up but when I was a kid playing football and running track in HS there were many times kids ran "until they puked".  Maybe Im old school on this one.

 

As far as closed practices most of the sports teams at my kid HS run closed practices.  Again, Im old school on this as I don't ever remember seeing a parent at any of my HS practices.  I don't see any reason for them to be there.

ummmmm....yea I would be concerned.  Contact the coach directly and ask what is going on in a respective way. 

Having been to that rodeo before, in my experience, the coach really doesn't want to hear from parents and doesn't care what they might say.  My guess is he doesn't care what the players think either. 

 

I've coached nine year olds through high school age players.  I think the "whole team is running" thing is lazy coaching.  And I've been that guy.  There are far better ways to instill discipline than that, and I had to learn it the hard way.  Most players / teams won't respond to it and it comes from a place of the coach feeling out of control or perhaps not really understanding how to run a practice and engage his players.

 

That said, is the AD monitoring / evaluating the new coaching staff?  Many ADs are great about this.  They are auditing what their coaches do, and don't need to wait to hear from players or parents.  Many will want to hear from players directly; some will be ok with engaging parents too.

 

You can do nothing.  Or you can encourage your player to speak to the coach or the AD.  Or you could speak to the AD.  Nothing may come of it and you need to be prepared for that.  But a good AD will at least begin to poke around. 

 

 

 

 

Concerned, yes.  Doing anything at this point, no.

 

Far more questions than answers, but I'd be curious to the previous culture, coaching philosophy and winning tradition at the school?  There may be some attitudes or entitlement among players, or some other cultural challenges that the new regime is trying to change.  This may be an initial salvo to get some attention and change for the better.  Maybe trying to get some teambuilding.  While it's not a leadership stance I would ever use, I know of some leaders who would rather create a common enemy in themselves to create a reason for a team to rally together.  Typically that approach burns bright and out quickly, but it may be an initial step toward trying to effect some quick change.

 

It may be that this guy is old school, football background, etc., and will prove to be ineffective and short lived in this role.  Time will tell.  My oldest son's freshman year had a new JV coach who sounds very similar. Didn't do anything abusive, but certainly did things that were counter productive to putting the team in a position to win.  There was a game on a Saturday after spring break.  The team had no practices during the break, so he had them show up at 8am for a 4 hour workout, including poles, burpees, etc, before a noon double header.  85 degrees with high humidity (southeast).  Lost both games by double digits.  Players were absolutely exhausted before the first pitch.  In the end, this coach proved to be an idiot and had no idea what he was doing.  He was replaced after one season.

 

I'd keep listening and advise your son to be a good team mate and player for his coach.  In time you'll see if this is part of some preconceived plan or if the guy is simply in over his head.  Once you learn which, you can decide what/if you want to do anything, but at this point, way to early to know.

I coach HS baseball and I would be fired on the spot for something like that. Immediately. Running all practice is lazy, and frankly if there are multiple guys collapsing or puking, it is endangering their health. Some may see that as overreacting but it's the truth. 

 

Then adding in comments to intimidate them about "mommy and daddy not being there" is another offense. 

 

I have no problem with closed practices. 

 

There is a right way and a wrong way to approach a coach or AD. Even if your son is a long distance runner, this crosses the line. I would have no problem if a parent contacted me wondering why I was making kids puke by running for 2 straight practices. Although I probably wouldn't have a chance to respond because I wouldn't have that position anymore. 

Do not complain.

Maybe eventually somebody else will.

But don't let it be you.

If it inspires parent tongue-wagging at games, separate yourself and watch the games from the OF corner.

I disagree that it's a health issue.  The kids will be fine. It's routine for crew (rowing) teams to have a puke bucket next to the ERG machine.

It's a bad-coaching issue, which you should just put up with.

 

 

I've seen my son's football team run sprints pretty hard after practice.  It's hard to say where abuse starts and ends. 

Personally I have never encountered a closed practice for baseball or football. 

The gatorade bottle seemed like an excuse for the new coach to show the team and his assistants who is boss.  

Sounds like a young insecure coach.  I got over all that run til you drop stuff long ago.  It is immature and amateurish.  Do you squeel?  I guess that is a question you have to answer.  But no doubt it is wrong.  Not to mention a complete waste of valuable practice time!

As coaches aren't we supposed to be encouraging our players to run...athletes run that is just the way it is.  Using it as a form of punishment is counterproductive.  I am definitely an old school guy but willing to change when it makes sense.  Not sure I would say anything yet, but if it becomes a "trend" then since HS coaches seem to be off limits have a discussion with the AD or Principal.   

If your son is coping with the situation leave it alone. You don't want your son punished (benched) trying to save other kids. The other kids will bring it to their parents attention if it gets bad enough. This may be all forgotten in a couple of days.

In high school my first basketball practice was 90 minutes, nonstop of shuffling sideways around the gym in a defensive position. After practice the coach said anyone interested in fast break basketball and full court trapping the entire game, I'll see you tomorrow.

Then there was the football coach who had us run the stands (52 rows) in full pads for an entire practice. We were tied by a mediocre team on Friday.

Nobody died.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around everything going on really.

 

It's a school that had good success over the last couple of years.  The coach that left was very well liked, was very knowledgeable and the kids played hard for him. He left to make an upward move and nobody could blame him.  The guy still picks up the phone and makes calls to contacts he has to try to get our uncommitted seniors a place to play in college.

 

So, the incoming staff has big shoes to fill. The vibe that has come across to this point is one of "We're going to do things our way - we don't care how it was done before."  That's certainly their prerogative, but it just feels defensive rather than being an improvement.  It's as if they came in to prove they were just as good if not better than the departing coach - and they are finding out it isn't as easy as they expected.

 

My son texted earlier to say that a couple of players had been called in to see the AD, but he doesn't know why yet.  I guess I will wait and see how things go for the next couple of days and decide what to do then.

 

  

All our tryouts are closed and practices are closed as well.  You can watch practices, but it has to bee from the parking lot (or a well placed deer stand).  We even sign a contract before you are permitted to tryout.  The coaches want the kids to start handling situations themselves.  I agree that if the kids can cope with it, they should be allowed to and the ones that can't are hopefully talking to their parents. 

For me this throw's up all kinds of warning signs.  The closed practice is no big deal but the running till kids have to be carried to the dugout is.  To me it also shows a coach who has no idea what he is doing.  I am assuming that this was distance running and not sprints.  Distance running does nothing for baseball players.  

 

The bigger issue I have as a coach is why would I waste two days of practice just running.  I want my team to get better.  How do they get better by running all day.

 

The problem is that you really can't say anything to this guy without the fear that it hurts your son.  Based on his comments I could easily see it harming your kid.  I might talk with the AD if he can be trusted to keep quiet about the issue and have him go observe practice.

This is football, texas....17 high schoolers died in practice from heat stroke from '95 - '00.  Just heat stroke, not heart attacks, aneurysms, brain injuries and the like.  The UIL put some rules and guidelines in place that may have had some effect.  And some of the Bear Bryant wannabe's were pushed out of coaching or just got too old..  Sorry I don't have more recent data.

 

So if severe, you might say something.

We all have our stories.  Freshman football last five cuts were made by running.  Coach said they were on the fence for last cuts so we were going to run until 5 people either quit or threw up.  A few quit a couple threw up and tryouts were over.  Makes for a great story....   and a really stupid coach.

Right on 

Bully type coach.Don't say a word to him.

Experienced one ourselves although was a travel ball coach.

Feel for ya!

 

I don't agree with this take at all.  It is a health and safety issue. Speak up!   How will you feel if one of these kids is permanently affected by this?

I don't interfere with HC unless I see it as a health and safety issue so completely agree with rynoattack.  Ask yourself if you see it as a H&S issue.  If you do, talk to the AD.

 

The HC is not immune to criticism, he is not a dictator, you are your son's advocate and care taker.  If you see a dangerous situation, speak up.  I don't agree with letting someone else do it or giving HC a pass.  If HC doesn't like you exercising that right, too bad.  You have the right to hold your high school accountable for the H&S of your child when he/she is under their control.  They are minors (for the most part).

I regard excessive running in baseball practice such as you describe as ill-advised conditioning for baseball players and an imprudent use of precious practice time that could be better spent instructing or practicing baseball.

 

I do not regard it as a serious safety issue. 

 

If I were the parent of a player who was in this program, I would keep my mouth shut and make extra nutrition available for my son to make up for the calories burned in pointless running.

We have some teams around here who have closed practices. Funny to me. Sometimes parents need to see that little Johnny isn't as great as they think.

While being recruited my son/family was invited to practices to see how things are run. Any /cursing/crazy sh** must happen in locker room which is where it should be Imo. Son chose school that seemed to have more organized practices where no player was standing around but working on something. They also had good team rapor .  Coaches seemed to be instructing not belittling players.

good luck, hopefully things get better. 

I never liked making my boys run very much, it made for a sloppy practice which I hated more than anything. Once their legs were tired and wobbly their throws would be short and wild. A good little run at the end of practice usually got the point across. Sprints are even better since baseball is a game of short bursts.

 

I would give it a little time to see what else he has in his bag.

When I was a freshman the sophomore football coach would get "mad," stop practice, and make them run.  He would shout stuff at them while running. We would watch from the next field.  All of a sudden dozens of helmets where thrown off.  "Get your blanking helmets on, you blanks" he said with a big grin.  Then the shoulder pads came off.   "You guys are going to run all nights" with a chuckle. The kids where pushing back and he loved it.   This would happen a few times durring the season.  They went undefeated.  Couldn't break .500 as juniors and seniors with a different coach.  

Reminds me of a few years ago when we were holding 13u fall travel practice at a local HS.  I was supervising bullpens between the JV field, where we were practicing, and the Varsity field, where the football team was doing a run-through and ruining the RF grass.  While the first unit worked, subs observed from one knee.  A group of 4 or 5 were close enough so that I could hear them chatting. So could the offensive coach, who chewed them out and told them to take a few laps around the campus. As they ran past me, one kid said to the others, "So, like I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted...."

Monitor the situation. Hold your tongue until there is a legitimate reason not to. 

 

Unfortunetly, you have an inexperienced coach who doesn't know what he is doing....and he knows it.

So here's the latest...

 

Apparently state rules require an athletic trainer be present during any actual games/competitions, but not practices.  While the baseball team was running, there was a lacrosse game being played on the adjacent field.  The school's trainer was at that game, and observed the running that was going on.  He went up the chain at the school from AD to principal about it.

 

At yesterday's practice several coaches were absent, and last night an email went out to all the parents that there would be a parents only meeting held tonight at the school regarding the program.

 

Some details that my son shared last night that I wasn't told previously that make this seem even worse...  There were several kids that threw up multiple times - not just once.  When kids asked if they could stop for water they were told if they did they would have to run even more.

 

I've tried to keep my head, but this is completely out of line.  I can only hope the coach is at this meeting tonight, because I have every intention of telling him what I think of him as a coach and a human being.  At this point my son doesn't care if he continues to play for the school - and I agree with him.  He's already accepted a spot on a good summer team, and if he wants to transfer schools to continue playing next year, I will do what I can to make it happen.

 

Aside from the meeting, I will be filing a formal complaint with the school board and the state athletic association.  Maybe that seems overboard, but dehydration kills athletes every year - and I'm not going to stand back and watch that happen to my son or his teammates. 

This makes my blood boil.....hold your composure though but do everything you need to under the scope of the law and rules to make sure your son and the other boys are protected.

Go for the jugular.  He deserves it.  And now he is a wounded duck do you have no worries about reprisals.  He should resign.  Once the blood is in the water he will never regain control.  Hopefully he will go take a lower level position somewhere realizing he wasn't ready and learn his craft.  Then next time he gets his chance he will do it right - hopefully!

I take back my earlier position.  This has gone way beyond run till you puke.  There is no excuse for this.

1st off let me set this straight, I disagree with what the coach did. With that said, this post is what is wrong with society and is cowardly.  Go for the jugular, now that he is a wounded duck and there is no reprisal.  So in other words, don't stand up against wrong, be part of a mob mentality and attack when someone is down.  This is such a bunch of BS.  If something is wrong it is wrong from the start and you stand up against it.  You don't wait for someone to stand up and then go, " ok guys, let's attack!"  EMBARRASSING 

       
       
Chalk this one up to yet another personal attack...  embarrassing!  Two facts you omitted before going off on your shameful and embarrassing personal attack on me.  One, I said it was wrong right from the start calling the coach stupid and amateurish. Second new information just became available to us showing it was even more severe than we thought.  Whats cowardly is people who fight and get all puffy chested over a keyboard.  I will stick with my live and let live motto and continue to stay away from personal attacks.  There is no place for that here. However I do reserve the right to comment back when I am personally attacked.  I will assume there is something personal here for you and it triggered a response you probably didn't really want to make.  Peace.

Since information continues to be unfolding, as the last post of anan indicates, would it not be better for everyone to wait on their judgements until the parents meeting is held and the known information is disclosed?

One new item provided by the OP which is awfully puzzling, though. If the school had a certified trainer nearby, and that trainer observed and knew what was happening, why did that trainer not stop any activity was recognized as  a health threat for the players? Isn't that what the trainer is for whether they are at a game being played or in a position to see  a practice which endangers the health of many players, reportedly.

Seems puzzling, to me at least, and why more information would be so much better before we get too  close to anyone's jugular.

Denying water has become an action that not only can get you fired, but prosecuted. When I was in high school, it was quit normal to run you to death in Texas high school football. When I played, you would be denied water for mistakes, etc. All that has changed, especially after a few deaths involving this problem. A coach in this day and age who does this is quite an idiot, opening himself up to unemployment and jail time. God forbid a kid dies. It's not like it's never happened before.

It will be interesting (to say the least) as to who called the meeting (assuming it was the AD or principal) and if the coach will be there.

 

Sounds like "several coaches" have been suspended or relieved of their duties.  The question I have is, if several coaches were absent, who was supervising the practice?

I agree with infielddad on the prudence of awaiting additional information.

 

In less than 24 hours, the OP went from "on the fence" to full blown crusade.

 

       
       
It's amazing what people will not directly confront.  Jerry Sandusky?   And perhaps the word 'jugular' was a bit graphic.  But I do believe assuming what we have heard is true he should be removed immediately.   As a long time coach I feel it is stories like this that soil our profession.  Thank you however for disagreeing with me in a non personal manner.  Discussion and debate are productive and enjoyable. However please note that the last half of what I said in my post was somewhat supportive of the coach.  And by blood in the water I meant he will never regain control (because of a lack of respect) and it is time for him to step down and start over - the right way.  I sincerely hope he does that.

Denying water from HS athletes is a legal risk for the coach; a no brainer.

 

For the coach to subject himself to this personal legal risk calls into question his intelligence and judgment.

 

However, just to keep it realisitic:

 

Denying water from baseball players in February is not a genuine health and safety risk for baseball players.

 

Our HS cross-country team has captain's practices during August.  They run at least 5 miles, and sometimes longer, in the summer heat.  They don't bring water with them.  They don't stop for water.  They're fine.  The dehydration risk for baseball is hugely overblown.

 

 

 

 

I think as a parent that your initial reaction is to jump to your child's defense when presented with something like this.  I've tried to always be aware of that instinct and really contain myself when the instinct is to fly off the handle.  In this case, every fresh detail has just angered me more.

 

I always let my son handle his own baseball affairs with the coaching staff. He's old enough to be able to communicate man to man.  On this though I have to step in and do something.  Wrong is wrong.  I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I stood by and did nothing - and a player ended up getting hurt or worse.

 

I'm not sure if the trainer said anything to the coaches during the running or not. I would hope so, but I really don't know.

 

There were two coaches at yesterday's practice.  The varsity HC was already scheduled not to be there for other reasons.  The head JV coach and one of the assistant varsity coaches ran practice.  The whole dynamic of the coaching staff is a story for another day.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.  It was 84 degrees here with 70% humidity. Kids were vomiting numerous times. That's not just a dehydration issue, you are also talking about signs of heat stroke.