HS Cuts and Other Issues

Interesting questions. We just had a change in coaches from last year to this year.

In the past, and I think this year, seniors who take part in the offseason class are not cut, but don't take any starting spots if not warranted.

My son was a soph last year and was on varsity all season long. He was the backup CF to a senior who is now at Miss St. He did get to play when the CF came in to close the game and he was pretty much the designated pinch runner when the catcher got on base.

With a new coach there are a couple kids who were varsity last year, but were on JV at the first scrimmage the other day. It will be interesting to see what happens there.

The easy answer is two words- "it depends".

Every coach does things his way. Some are loyal to seniors. Some play the best players. Period. Some coaches reward JV players that stand out with some innings of varsity. Some don't. Most coaches carry at least a few underclassmen so they don't begin next season with a team full of guys who've never seen varsity pitching.

If a kid truly belongs on varsity, he'll be accepted. The rub comes when an underclassman who is (obviously) over his head makes mistakes that cost games. The upperclassmen may begin to resent that their buddy is on the bench and this freshman, or sophomore, is killing us in games that might determine our seeding, or even whether we will make the playoffs. "Joe would have made that play." "Joe would have crushed that pitcher."

Of course, when a senior makes a crucial mistake, it's "Don't worry about it, Joe. Keep your head up."

I understand "it depends" on the coach. My son works out with a retired HS coach. 37 years and 5 state championships. He has told me that he took the soph if he was better, he cut the son of a former major leaguer, he cut the son of the school superintendent ect.

The question is can you have a "quality" baseball program that doesn't do this? I will front run that question by answering "it depends" on what you mean by quality. That said, in a town where there is a real ebb and flow in talent it is hard to win.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by RAB90:
Interesting questions. We just had a change in coaches from last year to this year.

In the past, and I think this year, seniors who take part in the offseason class are not cut, but don't take any starting spots if not warranted.

My son was a soph last year and was on varsity all season long. He was the backup CF to a senior who is now at Miss St. He did get to play when the CF came in to close the game and he was pretty much the designated pinch runner when the catcher got on base.

With a new coach there are a couple kids who were varsity last year, but were on JV at the first scrimmage the other day. It will be interesting to see what happens there.

I'm sure every coach does things differently. If my son was a sophomore on Varisty and not starting, or at least getting significant playing time. I would want him on JV playing all the time

In our league, the Varisty and JV play at the same time, weather home or away. If our coach wanted to get a kid a varsity at bat, or needed a relief pitcher who was playing the field on the JV, he'd just pull him up to the varsity game. Players are allowed so many swing innings between varsity and JV a week.

From what I've seen, they'll keep a senior that has been with the program, but only play him if he needs/wants to. One senior last year had 7 ABs all season. Pitch ran on occasion.

I was a head coach in Kentucky for 9 years before I moved to North Carolina to take an asst. position. Here is how I handled it when I was the big cheese.

I had three days of tryouts and you had to be there. First day was an instructional / teaching day of a lot of basics. I wanted my coaches and myself to see how they handled being told how to do something. Did they listen, did they talk back or what. Second day was hitting. Did some teaching again but overall just wanted to see what kind of swing did they have. Third day was an overall baseball team type practice. Basically it was IF / OF extended into various situations. We wanted to see if a kid at 1B knew to be the relay man on basehits or whatever. This was also the day we made cuts. Practice would be a little shorter so I could pull kids into my office and let them know their fate.

We had three options - keep, outright cut or a week's extension. Some kids we just didn't really know so we wanted to get a longer look at them. After the week was up then we either kept them or cut them. I'm a firm believer in telling them face to face because if they are going to put themselves out there for judgement by me, my staff and their peers then they deserve to meet with me man to man. If they have questions they can ask. If they break down and cry then I can hold them until they compose themselves.

I try not to cut seniors who have been with us the whole time and have good attitudes. If I plan on keeping 16 and there is a guy who is a senior that just didn't pan out but is a great guy I won't cut a younger player or keep them on JV. I will carry 17 because I'm not going to cast off anybody if they can contribute in some way. Even if it's just being a great teammate.

If there is a kid who isn't panning out and the attitude is going downhill then I will get rid of them. I will do everything to do it at the end of their junior year so they don't go their whole senior year thinking they are on the team.

Now once cuts have been made and we get into practice I will decide who is on varsity or JV about a week before we start playing. The best 9 get on the field and the best 16 or so will be on varsity. The rest will go on JV - obviously the good attitude senior will be on varsity.

I try to not mix my varsity and JV but that plan usually goes out the window in the first two weeks of games. If I have a younger guy on varsity who's not getting to play then I will let him play on JV for a while to help him stay fresh and keep developing.

But there are a ton of variables that could throw most of that out the window.

There are so many variables and considerations... even those change from year to year for each school as each new group of incoming and returning players presents a new dynamic to the total equation.

IMO, decisions have to be driven by what benefits the program most. As a coach, you do as much as possible to give each player the tools, knowledge, motivation and opportunity to compete for a position at some level within the program.

Of course, you want to put your best team on the field for varsity. Even then, total numbers can come into play here. Our school has just varsity and JV. We don’ get a huge turnout, usually resulting in only a small handful of cuts across both teams. This year, several underclassmen are as good as or slightly better than many of the seniors. But if we were to move those underclassmen up, we’d have to cut more seniors (seniors can’t play JV in our league) and risk having too few at the JV level and in the program overall. This thinking is offset by the fact that the future of the program would benefit more if the underclassmen played varsity earlier. You also can’t ignore the effort and dedication of the seniors that have worked hard in the program for four years... answers are not always easy.

Also, regarding up or down..
Player A may be better overall than player B but A is limited to one position and further down the depth chart at that position than B is at his, so B goes up and A goes down.

Similarly, an underclassman may be deserving of coming up but will get more valuable playing time or innings pitched staying down.

Player A may have better mechanical and physical skills than B but A loses out on mental makeup.

Like Coach2709 says, attitude (and effort) counts.

Part of the equation usually involves moving a few players up and down during the season. Sometimes, telling a varsity player to go get some innings in at JV isn't well received, no matter how well it is presented. In our league, V and JV play opposite home and away, so, you are truely with a separate squad.

The list goes on...

Q: Are seniors who were on JV always cut for better lower classmen?

A: First the coach will tell any junior on JV is "wake up" time. If the kid hangs around until senior year with a good attitude he gets a uniform. It doesn't come at the expense of a potential contributor. Last year there was one. Two years ago there were three. They are told up front to keep a good attitude, cheer and chase foul balls. When my son was a soph he said one of these seniors was a leader on the bench. He took my son and a freshman under his wing and kept them loose. This kid used chasing foul balls as an opportunity to show hustle. He handled being nicknamed Bird Dog (chasing fouls) as a fun joke. He's a great kid. He wants to become a coach after college.

Q: Are soph's moved up if they get the playing time?

A: The coach came from a powerhouse as an assistant where sophs almost never make varsity. His first two years varsity was all juniors and seniors until the last third of the season. Some of us think he was letting the poison (attitudes) pass through the program while keeping the younger players away from them on JV. Then my son's soph year he started on varsity. A freshman also started on varsity. Another soph was an early call up. They all had quality seasons and became the team stud hitters the following year. Last year the coach had another soph and freshman on the team as starters. It's plain to see it's all about talent now.

Q: Once a player is on varsity do you ever see them cut the following year because there is a better lower classman?

A: I've seen players sent back to JV for not getting it done. Some states don't allow this once on varsity.

Q: Does your school have a policy on coaches having their son on the same team?

A: There are sons being coached by dads in other sports. They get the playing time they deserve. More importantly, with the new baseball coach parents no longer own the coach. It was a problem for twenty years in a losing program (seventeen losers). In the new coach's third season the team won the conference and went furthest into the playoffs in school history.

quote:

Originally posted by bobball:
This is tryout week. How is it done at your school?

Are seniors who were on JV always cut for better lower classmen?

Are soph's moved up if they get the playing time?

Once a player is on varsity do you ever see them cut the following year because there is a better lower classman?

Does your school have a policy on coaches having their son on the same team?

Thanks

I suspect it varies greatly depending on the region, and more importantly, the individual coaching staff.

Some programs have a no cut policy(typically smaller schools where every warm body is needed). Others you had better be a stud every year or your uniform may be worn by a new person while you are watching from the stands.
I am familiar with both types of programs, and will speak about the one my son is currently in.
If a kid is talented enough, or the coach wants to develop him for the future, even a freshman can make it. However there are so many good players, that few if any FR or Soph's make it. Aside from the studs on the team, no ones job is safe, and even a senior who went to school from kindergarten and played at every level along the way can be cut. For instance last year, half of the starting Soph JV kids did not even make the varsity as juniors.
This year several seniors were cut that played last year and their parents are not too happy about it. They are especially not happy about the transfers who waltzed in and took kids spots who have been in the school since day one. However this team is put together with the expectations of winning the state championship, and being considered for the national championship. So it is very much dog eat dog when it comes to tryouts.

As to the sons coach question, it is not allowed at my sons HS. When the middle school coaches son came up, he was forced to move to an assistant on the JV. This year he is gone because his kid made the JV and there was no room for him on the varsity staff.

Overall I understand the coaches philosophy, but it seems unfair to some of these kids who could start at many other schools, but cannot even make the team here.

Good luck this year.

Our program has had only 1 freshemn on varsity in the past 10 years and the coach admitted that it was a mistake that stunted the growth of the player. All programs are different, but at our school if you can play better than the upper classman you will start ahead of them. The program is so deep in talent it is not unusual for players to remain on JV until their senior year. This year we will have about 6 Juniors who will contribute greatly to varsity, but that is unusual. We do not have any sophomores on our varsity team.

From what I have seen, if a player makes it through his Junior year he will not be cut going into his Senior year. He may ride the pine, but will be able to letter his senior year.

The answer is... don't worry about it, relax, you have no control over it.

You have control over everything, but what you do can make it better or worst.
So post here think it tho talk to your Kid as after all its about him. Only talk to the coach about problems if he comes to you or your kid ask you too.