LMAO
Been there done it. Picture 13U ball and recruiting a team full of former LL all-staar p/c/ss's. For the most part I judged parents properly. I made one mistake. I became a member of the Email of the Week Club.quote:Originally posted by Will:quote:There are three parents unhappy with me for making the right scoring calls on their sons. They weren't even appeased when I showed them the printed rule.
The other day my son charged a ball, it took a bad hop on him and rolled up his arm into his ribs. All three came over to make sure I was giving him his first error of the season
You volunteered? now try being the coach and bench one of their kids because of poor play?
It used to be said children should be seen and not heard.
quote:As long as you are keeping that book and your son is playing on that team , get used to people talking trash about you and questioning your scorekeeping
That's a little harsh...
However, some of the parents think my wife and I are too tough. They've think every ball that gets muffed was 'too hot to handle' or 'he would have been safe anyway'....but I don't feel it is 'trash talking'. There's a lot of gray area in scoring and this leads to a lot of 'discussions'...
quote:All three came over to make sure I was giving him his first error of the season.
My son made an error last week. HC looks into the dugout where the girls keep the book and shouts out 'E6...that's an E6...!' Wife starts muttering 'we know, we know'...I point out that the girls might not know....and she says 'Maybe, but now everyone knows whether they knew before or not...'
Watch out for mama bears...
After the game coach comes over so son starts to explain how he got handcuffed. Coach stops him and says 'Did I say anything to you?' Son answers 'No, but you shouted at the entire dugout..' Coach: I did...I consider it a 'teaching moment' and I figured you'd be part of the lesson on focus and execution.'
It may be harsh but its reality.
It is what it is !!!
I kept a scorebook during HS ball.
Just for myself, and I never showed nor did any college recruitor ever ask about or want to see the book.
I Mainly did the book to keep my own mouth shut during the game??
I was to busy figureing what to put down in the book to worry what was happening anywhere else on the field or in the stands.
I did this after taking the game to seriously when my son was younger.
Some lessons take awhile to learn.
But you will learn sooner or later.
Stats mean nothing.
EH
Just for myself, and I never showed nor did any college recruitor ever ask about or want to see the book.
I Mainly did the book to keep my own mouth shut during the game??
I was to busy figureing what to put down in the book to worry what was happening anywhere else on the field or in the stands.
I did this after taking the game to seriously when my son was younger.
Some lessons take awhile to learn.
But you will learn sooner or later.
Stats mean nothing.
EH
Now remember we are talking about adults being upset about scoring decisions. the kids? No they just play the game hopefully have some fun.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
It is what it is !!!
Simple solution to a simple problem.
Part of the teachable moment is that between the lines it is not a game of delicacies, whispered words of encouragement, and polite discourse on the intricacies of the game. If that is the setting the player and his parents need, then a different activity might be required. A cooking club or needlepoint might be better.
Our very dependable 3B missed a routine pop up the other day. Ball dropped about 3 feet from him. His dad, who always watches from the fence, right beside our dugout was heard to say, "good thing you didn't touch it". One of the assistant coaches was heard to say, "we're still scoring it an error".
"a true story"
Our Legion team was in Reno and Gary Sheffield was assigned at age 18 to the Stockton Ports.
My son and others attended the California League game
at the Pro field in Reno. Gary was playing SS
and in the 3rd inning, he went into CF to receive the "cut off" throw from the right fielder. Gary attempted a pick up on the low throw and the scorer "flash e-6" on the scoreboard.
On the very next play Gary fielded a ground ball
at SS and threw the ball over the 1st baseman's head into the stands and then remarked to the scorer "that is an error"!!!!
Morale of the story. "Can you play the game" Stats mean very little.
Bob
Our Legion team was in Reno and Gary Sheffield was assigned at age 18 to the Stockton Ports.
My son and others attended the California League game
at the Pro field in Reno. Gary was playing SS
and in the 3rd inning, he went into CF to receive the "cut off" throw from the right fielder. Gary attempted a pick up on the low throw and the scorer "flash e-6" on the scoreboard.
On the very next play Gary fielded a ground ball
at SS and threw the ball over the 1st baseman's head into the stands and then remarked to the scorer "that is an error"!!!!
Morale of the story. "Can you play the game" Stats mean very little.
Bob
Many have said that stats mean very little. In fact, I am one who has said that. However, when I mention stats mean very little, it’s meant to refer to scouting. The only stats that can have a bearing on scouting or recruiting are bad stats. E.G. hitter graded high in power… has no HRs in high school season. Pitcher with a great arm has very few strikeouts and gives up lots of hits in high school season. Certain stats can cause concern from a scouting standpoint.
The truth is that stats are very much part of baseball. Are there any parents out there who don’t know or don’t care what their son’s stats are? In baseball the score is the most important “team” stat. Teams are judged by W and L’s. Players have individual stats and sooner or later those stats can become very important. I’m betting no one would claim that individual stats aren’t important in minor league baseball, let alone major league baseball.
Personally I think coaches who don’t keep individual stats are selfish. Why keep W-L record? That is the stat that most coaches are judged on! Why keep stats in football or basketball? Surely we can see who is the fastest and most talented running back. Surely we know who handles the basketball best and should have the most assists. These stats are often used for the player’s bio at the next level. Websites and yearbooks publish these stats for the world to see. These stats become part of a players history. These stats become important for individual awards and honors. Of course, we shouldn’t care if our kids receive awards an honors? You bet!
Why downplay individual stats? Because scouts and recruiters don’t ask? That doesn’t mean they don’t know what the player they are interested in has for stats. You don’t have to ask the player in order to find out his stats. Truth is scouts and college recruiters want as much information as they can possibly gather. That includes the statistics! The stats might not be a big determining factor, but that doesn’t mean they are totally worthless.
True story… Each year we hold a spring wood bat league for the top players in the state we live in. That’s because they play the high school baseball season in the summer here. We have had scouts contact us wanting to know what a certain players “STATS” are in this league. In fact, I once got a phone call from a MLB Scouting Director about two weeks before the draft… Guess what? He wanted to know the statistics for a certain player who was later drafted in the 2nd round. People can think whatever they want, but had this player’s stats been terrible in our high school league, would he have been a 2nd round pick? Guess we will never know for sure.
Stats are not “the” most important thing, but to think they don’t matter would be a mistake. Pretend you are a scout or college recruiter… You like a certain player a lot and you need to sell him to your superiors…Ask yourself this question… How do I sell the kid that is hitting .150 in high school? How do I sell the pitcher who averages a couple strikeouts each 7 innings, averages a walk an inning and gives up over a hit an inning in high school? Good stats will not create a lot of scouting interest in most cases, but if a player is a good prospect and his stats stink, the red flag comes out.
Players and parents care about stats. They want the best stats possible. For anyone to say stats are worthless just doesn’t make any sense. No one claims the kid has amazing academic talent and high IQ without looking at his/her academic “stats” before recruiting that player! Individual stats are part of a player’s history. Sooner or later stats will play a part in determining a player’s future. All players should have team goals that are the most important. However, they are individuals and they won’t take the whole team with them to the next level. W-L becomes the coach’s individual stat and part of his history. Tell the coach that stat doesn’t mean anything. Being a player on a team with a good W-L record is an advantage, but it doesn’t automatically get the player to the next level. Besides, is it possible to have a great W-L record without having some individuals with good stats? What if there is a great player on a team with a terrible W-L record. Should we disregard his stats as being unimportant. Carl Crawford was on a terrible high school team. His tools were excellent and his high school stats were great, (tools and production) the stats helped confirm the talent.
Bottom line… Stats do need to be accurate and that is often the biggest problem in high school and below. Stats don’t equal the necessary talent required, but they can help confirm that talent. Bad stats can cause a decision maker to start second guessing his opinion. In most cases the best players have very good stats. If you don’t believe that, just follow the draft and look up the stats of the players selected in the first round.
Before anyone starts this debate… Yes, there are many very important things that players do that don’t show up in the statistics. There are tons of variables when it comes to stats… Competition level, being number one. So is the guy with the best stats the best prospect? Absolutely NOT! Is the guy with bad high school stats the best prospect? Probably not!
The truth is that stats are very much part of baseball. Are there any parents out there who don’t know or don’t care what their son’s stats are? In baseball the score is the most important “team” stat. Teams are judged by W and L’s. Players have individual stats and sooner or later those stats can become very important. I’m betting no one would claim that individual stats aren’t important in minor league baseball, let alone major league baseball.
Personally I think coaches who don’t keep individual stats are selfish. Why keep W-L record? That is the stat that most coaches are judged on! Why keep stats in football or basketball? Surely we can see who is the fastest and most talented running back. Surely we know who handles the basketball best and should have the most assists. These stats are often used for the player’s bio at the next level. Websites and yearbooks publish these stats for the world to see. These stats become part of a players history. These stats become important for individual awards and honors. Of course, we shouldn’t care if our kids receive awards an honors? You bet!
Why downplay individual stats? Because scouts and recruiters don’t ask? That doesn’t mean they don’t know what the player they are interested in has for stats. You don’t have to ask the player in order to find out his stats. Truth is scouts and college recruiters want as much information as they can possibly gather. That includes the statistics! The stats might not be a big determining factor, but that doesn’t mean they are totally worthless.
True story… Each year we hold a spring wood bat league for the top players in the state we live in. That’s because they play the high school baseball season in the summer here. We have had scouts contact us wanting to know what a certain players “STATS” are in this league. In fact, I once got a phone call from a MLB Scouting Director about two weeks before the draft… Guess what? He wanted to know the statistics for a certain player who was later drafted in the 2nd round. People can think whatever they want, but had this player’s stats been terrible in our high school league, would he have been a 2nd round pick? Guess we will never know for sure.
Stats are not “the” most important thing, but to think they don’t matter would be a mistake. Pretend you are a scout or college recruiter… You like a certain player a lot and you need to sell him to your superiors…Ask yourself this question… How do I sell the kid that is hitting .150 in high school? How do I sell the pitcher who averages a couple strikeouts each 7 innings, averages a walk an inning and gives up over a hit an inning in high school? Good stats will not create a lot of scouting interest in most cases, but if a player is a good prospect and his stats stink, the red flag comes out.
Players and parents care about stats. They want the best stats possible. For anyone to say stats are worthless just doesn’t make any sense. No one claims the kid has amazing academic talent and high IQ without looking at his/her academic “stats” before recruiting that player! Individual stats are part of a player’s history. Sooner or later stats will play a part in determining a player’s future. All players should have team goals that are the most important. However, they are individuals and they won’t take the whole team with them to the next level. W-L becomes the coach’s individual stat and part of his history. Tell the coach that stat doesn’t mean anything. Being a player on a team with a good W-L record is an advantage, but it doesn’t automatically get the player to the next level. Besides, is it possible to have a great W-L record without having some individuals with good stats? What if there is a great player on a team with a terrible W-L record. Should we disregard his stats as being unimportant. Carl Crawford was on a terrible high school team. His tools were excellent and his high school stats were great, (tools and production) the stats helped confirm the talent.
Bottom line… Stats do need to be accurate and that is often the biggest problem in high school and below. Stats don’t equal the necessary talent required, but they can help confirm that talent. Bad stats can cause a decision maker to start second guessing his opinion. In most cases the best players have very good stats. If you don’t believe that, just follow the draft and look up the stats of the players selected in the first round.
Before anyone starts this debate… Yes, there are many very important things that players do that don’t show up in the statistics. There are tons of variables when it comes to stats… Competition level, being number one. So is the guy with the best stats the best prospect? Absolutely NOT! Is the guy with bad high school stats the best prospect? Probably not!
PG's post here is suitable for framing. Maybe it could be pinned to the front page of this site? Heck, maybe it should be published on Perfect Game's site too!
PGStaff, what you write makes a lot of sense. Overall stats do have an effect on scouts and coaches perspectives of a player.
What doesn't matter, IMO, is worrying about every scoring decision and how it effects a players stats. If the player is as good as advertised one or two decisions will not skew the overall stats or impression.
What doesn't matter, IMO, is worrying about every scoring decision and how it effects a players stats. If the player is as good as advertised one or two decisions will not skew the overall stats or impression.
quote:PGStaff, what you write makes a lot of sense. Overall stats do have an effect on scouts and coaches perspectives of a player.
What doesn't matter, IMO, is worrying about every scoring decision and how it effects a players stats. If the player is as good as advertised one or two decisions will not skew the overall stats or impression.
fillsfan,
What you write makes even a lot more sense! And so very true!
But that scoring decision might mean a lot to that player and his parents. Especially with baseball being such a mental game. If someone was somehow slighted out of an A in the classroom because of a mistake in scoring, that would be a bummer. Not really trying to compare stats to grades, but anytime someone accomplishes something positive and it ends up being recorded as something negative... people seem to be bothered by that. Maybe they should be!
Bottom line is the stats should be accurate as possible regardless what they mean as far as scouting and recruiting or any other reason stats are kept.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:quote:PGStaff, what you write makes a lot of sense. Overall stats do have an effect on scouts and coaches perspectives of a player.
What doesn't matter, IMO, is worrying about every scoring decision and how it effects a players stats. If the player is as good as advertised one or two decisions will not skew the overall stats or impression.
fillsfan,
What you write makes even a lot more sense! And so very true!
But that scoring decision might mean a lot to that player and his parents. Especially with baseball being such a mental game. If someone was somehow slighted out of an A in the classroom because of a mistake in scoring, that would be a bummer. Not really trying to compare stats to grades, but anytime someone accomplishes something positive and it ends up being recorded as something negative... people seem to be bothered by that. Maybe they should be!
I don't disagree with this statement. My point in all of this is that people/parents fret and stew and argue and boast about every little bump and turn. As many have stated this baseball journey is a long one to say the least. My son is a 16 yo junior and it seems like it took forever to get here and he still has two years left to try the next level if he's lucky enough.
A parent will drive him/herself crazy worrying and trying to control every coaches decision, let alone scoring decisions. And he will drive the other parents crazy talking and complaining about them.
A player's talent should be evident to the educated eye over the long haul. The ability to handle minor adversities like scoring decisions is part of the evaluation process IMO. If we make excuses for our player based on scoring decisions or errors by teammates, we are not teaching them, and they are not learning how to handle hard situations. And we are possibly creating a bad teammate.
We should not be micro managing anything other than how to improve his overall game. And that happens in the off season. IMO.
That is one of the best posts I have ever read on this site. Sit in the stands or stand where you like to stand and enjoy the game. Dont get caught up in anything that takes the enjoyment out of the experience for you or your child. You will realize that the things you worried about that took away from your enjoyment were meaningless , but only when its too late. If your kid gets upset about how something was scored just tell him to forget about it and look at the big picture. If you agree with him and join those kind of fights both of you will end up negative and it will take away from the fun of the whole experience.
May I ask a question?
How many players are listening to Joe Morgan tonight on ESPN? This is a valuable lesson in baseball.
Many years ago, Joe Morgan was at a SF Giants coaching clinic which I attended. He was asked to speak about "base running".
Joe said; "do you want the 10 minute talk or 10 hour talk.
The same is true: I can give you a 10 minute discussion or 10 hours.
Bob Williams
How many players are listening to Joe Morgan tonight on ESPN? This is a valuable lesson in baseball.
Many years ago, Joe Morgan was at a SF Giants coaching clinic which I attended. He was asked to speak about "base running".
Joe said; "do you want the 10 minute talk or 10 hour talk.
The same is true: I can give you a 10 minute discussion or 10 hours.
Bob Williams
I'll vote for the 10hr 
MANDATORY READING
PGStaff's Post on April 05, 2009 01:17 PM
PGStaff's Post on April 05, 2009 01:17 PM
Zombywolf;
Unfortunately, I need to work at my real estate
investments.
Last Saturday at Sonoma State baseball game I sat with 6 pro scouts and not one was concerned with the stats of the players and his primary reason to observe the player.
We discussed Paul Snyder of the Atlanta Braves. He was asked whether a particular hitter could find a playing position. Paul Snyder said "if he can hit we will find that player a position"
Several stats which I used with our players in International Baseball is "rbi's per time at bats.
For coaches stats can help the coach determine the batting order.
During the 18 years with the Area Code games I logged in each profile into the computer. This numbered over 16,000 names including the tryouts.
Player would provide BA and trophies won.My eyes always went to mph [pitchers] and running speed
for the position players. The pro scouts wanted to see speed, mph and the "bat".
Off the profile, it is impossible to compute
"bat speed", except by phone. [another story].
BOB
Unfortunately, I need to work at my real estate
investments.
Last Saturday at Sonoma State baseball game I sat with 6 pro scouts and not one was concerned with the stats of the players and his primary reason to observe the player.
We discussed Paul Snyder of the Atlanta Braves. He was asked whether a particular hitter could find a playing position. Paul Snyder said "if he can hit we will find that player a position"
Several stats which I used with our players in International Baseball is "rbi's per time at bats.
For coaches stats can help the coach determine the batting order.
During the 18 years with the Area Code games I logged in each profile into the computer. This numbered over 16,000 names including the tryouts.
Player would provide BA and trophies won.My eyes always went to mph [pitchers] and running speed
for the position players. The pro scouts wanted to see speed, mph and the "bat".
Off the profile, it is impossible to compute
"bat speed", except by phone. [another story].
BOB