HS training/conditioning norms

4-5 hours daily - ?? Color me skeptical.

My daughter was obsessive about softball as a HS senior. She would do a 6am run, after school hitting/conditioning or team practice, late night pitching in our garage. Everything was fairly close to home and she could drive herself. It did not amount to 4-5 hours per day. Maybe 3 hours, tops.

What does he do that takes 4-5 hours per day? I hope it includes something fun.

I like this question! My son practices with his HS team, then every night(Mon-Friday) puts in another hour ( hitting or pitching/throwing), then 2-3 hours every Sat and Sunday. Still, we worry that the "competition" is putting in even more time. I'd like to know what most of the top 10% of HS kids do.

A kid from our area was recently a very high draft choice.  His dad had been a minor leaguer and owns a baseball facility.  When I first saw the boy play as a 12 year old I was told that starting at age 8 he would hit for hours every day off the machine in the facility.  Several years later when the kids were in high school my son trained there and I would sometimes see this guy working out.  He'd be swinging when we got there and still swinging 90 minutes later when my son's group session was over.

Our school had baseball class so an hour fifteen plus it was last hour of the day, so an hour of “optional” after school. Weights before school and pitching or hitting lessons several nights a week after school. My daughter had volleyball class, then 2  hours of club practice and then lessons on nights she didn’t have practice, and tournaments on weekends. Even her hs coach said, I had no idea how many hours you guys put in. It’s a lot. Is it all worth it? I dont know, they got awards, names on records and what would they be doing instead? I think both kids would do it again? They wanted it and at our school you had to do it to be one of the best. Instills work ethic if nothing else. My daughter is now a mom and competing in a national CrossFit competition next weekend, so she still puts in work, just another avenue.

@Momball11 posted:

or miss out on other things a HS kid should experience.

Like what?  Video games and online chat-rooms?  That's the alternative, for the kids I've seen.  Or girlfriend, I guess.

My son has early out this year and is home by 1:20.

I looked at my life360 for him. He left home at 1:30 and drove 10 minutes to the gym. Looks like he was lifting for 80 minutes, then drove from there to the baseball facility for about 15 minutes. He was there for 2 hours, where he hits and does some sort of throwing program he's on. Then he drove home, about 15 minutes and got home at about 5:30. He did 30 minutes of mobility stretching/flow sort if stuff after dinner. So I just quickly calculated 1:30-5:30 being 4 hours plus the 30 min at home. That's pretty typical for him, gone 1:30-5:30, but that's just a little over 3 hours of training outside the home. Some days he lifts for less time, but he runs through a sprinting/speed workout with the time he gains. Actual training time that day was 3 hours 50 minutes. Depending on the day, I'd say he's probably close to about 4 hours daily of actual training time once taking out the commuting time. In season it's longer with team practices.

No girlfriend at the moment. Had one sophomore year into junior year. Met a girl senior year, but that ended quickly when he was offered/accepted to play for a school too far away for the girl. A new one has shown interest, but we shall see if she can tolerate his schedule.

  Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.
  College baseball programs want big, physical players. All things being equal (in terms of ability) the physical player will always get the nod in college.
  So HS players that want to advance to college baseball better learn to love the weight room. The stronger they become the better their chances in college. This is by far the biggest change I have seen in college baseball during my lifetime.
  Players that really want it are borderline obsessive. And that’s often what it takes to reach lofty goals. Some parents (especially those that never played a sport at a high level) have trouble understanding this. I think it’s okay as long as a player isn’t putting himself at risk of injury (either physically or mentally). And there are sacrifices that go along with this. As a HS player I opted out of our last 2 summer family vacations in order to play baseball - and my parents allowed that to happen. They recognized how important baseball was to me.
  All parents tell their kids to chase their dreams. But sometimes they forget to let them do it.

I will add as an editorial note, nothing makes me roll my eyes more than a social media post showing a player “getting in some work.” All that says is: LOOK AT ME! LOOK!! ME!!! ME!!! ME!!!! JMO but it’s shared by many people that these kids are trying to impress.

Adbono,

I must admit that we are a little guilty of some Twiter posts, showing my son "working out" etc.( Vertical Jump, squat load, etc.) But since we a part of a very low profile baseball program and "good-but not well known travel team" , we are just trying to show anybody out there that he is "putting in the work".

Maybe we should "tone it down" a bit.

@Adams Baseball posted:

Adbono,

I must admit that we are a little guilty of some Twiter posts, showing my son "working out" etc.( Vertical Jump, squat load, etc.) But since we a part of a very low profile baseball program and "good-but not well known travel team" , we are just trying to show anybody out there that he is "putting in the work".

Maybe we should "tone it down" a bit.

I suggest that you do. Post things that are relevant. A game winning hit, a HR, a few pitches from a game (or a bullpen) as long as they are impressive. Assuming that these things occur in HS Varsity games. Don’t post clips from JV games.

My 2024 son's daily schedule:

Eat

School 7:30-12:30

Eat

Lift/Gym 1:30-3:30

Eat

Throw/Body Movement 4:00 - 5:00

Eat

Youth Group Prayer Meeting 6:30 - 8:30  (2-3x a week)

Eat again before bed.

He takes Sunday off from Throwing and Lifting.  His gym is owned by an ex D1 college baseball player who only focuses on training athletes and baseball players.  He throws at his club since its open 7 days a week.   The other day he said that the youth group helps the loneliness since he doesn't really hang out with his friends form school due to his schedule.  He's made his biggest jump this Oct-Feb due to him being totally locked in.  His first Bullpen is tomorrow and he's hoping to see a big velo jump.

HS freshman here just getting back into it after being cleared from a non baseball related injury.

Track practice 4x-5x week incorporates some lifting and core work

Baseball specific Strength and conditioning additional 2x week

HS winter workouts 2x week 90 min

Travel winter workouts 2x 90 minutes

Hitting lesson 1x week

Position specific skills training 1x week 90 minutes

Hitting off tee, throwing, receiving and blocking drills 20-30 min additional 3-4x week when he can squeeze it in.

Spare time spent eating as much as possible lol.

@Adams Baseball posted:

Adbono,

I must admit that we are a little guilty of some Twiter posts, showing my son "working out" etc.( Vertical Jump, squat load, etc.) But since we a part of a very low profile baseball program and "good-but not well known travel team" , we are just trying to show anybody out there that he is "putting in the work".

Maybe we should "tone it down" a bit.

Putting in the work is a given. It will quickly show if it’s not being done. Going back to LL there were parents who thought I was abusive. It was because we spent so much time at the field practicing. They didn’t believe it was my son’s choice to be there. How many preteens say they want to know every hop on the field.

One time he made an incredible flip to second to get an out. A parent asked how in the world he made the flip. I explained he practiced it during “hot dog time.” After getting in the real work we had fun with crazy flips to second and leaping catches against the fence.

This same work ethic lasted through college. In high school he was turning two on close plays with barehanded grabs of flips from second. Of course, opposing team parents called him a hot dog. But, he got the two outs. He was getting in the work at 5:45am when he was playing another sport’s season.

My son never considered the time he spent practicing and working out. He only considered, “Am I comfortable with the work I put in?”

So far from what I've read, I don't feel that my son is over doing it. I was starting to question the amount of training after comparing him with the local kids, but it's reassuring that he's not alone. (I know I'm not supposed to compare, but I couldn't help it). It will be a nice change of pace for him to spend time with guys that genuinely enjoy putting in the work next year. I know several guys from this area were in for a shock when they moved on to play in college, some didn't last. We're already making predictions of what will happen with his fellow 2024's when they move on to the next level.

HS committed senior and HS freshman.  Senior works out 4 times a week for 3 hours a day.  Freshman works out 5 days.  Will be HS teammates. 

It's almost impossible for a young man to over train.  If he starts to feel weaker, starts to feel run down all the time (almost flu like), increase the food, increase the sleep, and take a few days off and recover and adjust the volume down a bit.

Training non stop can be the male form of anorexia.  If he is more concerned about how he looks compared to how he performs, that's a valid question.

From a social standpoint, he is doing what he wants to do.  Not what you expect him to do.

You don't get great by being normal.  Michael Phelps trained every Christmas day and every other holiday.  Mike Trout didn't like the way he hit in a game in high school and practiced hitting for 4 hours after the game.

An hour to an hour and a half of weight training.  An hour to two hours of speed, agility, sport specific training.  For my catcher, tons of work catching bullpens.  He also does a half hour a day of yoga for the flexibility to be a better catcher.

3-5 hours is reasonable if the grades stay up.  You need the academic scholarship on top of the baseball.

College is 4-6+ hours a day on your sport. You don't want to run into that buzz saw on your first day in college because you haven't built up to it.

HS players would be well advised to incorporate exercises to increase hip mobility into their training routine. The more hip mobility a player has the more potential he has to move his body well - which increases the probability of him being an elite player. So much of how well any player performs is defined by the limits of his body. Yoga and other related activities can really help. Power comes from properly (and quickly) rotating the hips on time. And this is true for both pitchers & hitters.

@JETSR71 posted:

It's almost impossible for a young man to over train.  If he starts to feel weaker, starts to feel run down all the time (almost flu like), increase the food, increase the sleep, and take a few days off and recover and adjust the volume down a bit.

Training non stop can be the male form of anorexia.  If he is more concerned about how he looks compared to how he performs, that's a valid question.

From a social standpoint, he is doing what he wants to do.  Not what you expect him to do.

You don't get great by being normal.  Michael Phelps trained every Christmas day and every other holiday.  Mike Trout didn't like the way he hit in a game in high school and practiced hitting for 4 hours after the game.

An hour to an hour and a half of weight training.  An hour to two hours of speed, agility, sport specific training.  For my catcher, tons of work catching bullpens.  He also does a half hour a day of yoga for the flexibility to be a better catcher.

3-5 hours is reasonable if the grades stay up.  You need the academic scholarship on top of the baseball.

College is 4-6+ hours a day on your sport. You don't want to run into that buzz saw on your first day in college because you haven't built up to it.

Disagree.

Without going into the details I can tell you firsthand that injuries from overtraining are an issue for many college athletes. Sometimes the problems are systemic to an entire program.

Phelps has a >6 foot wingspan and an outlier torso to leg ratio. Greg Louganis has 80% more fast-twitch muscle than the average person. Serena Williams said she hated going to the gym, did everything she could to avoid it. MJ did not train himself into a 36" vertical leap.

Nature over nurture.

One can maximize their physical talent but training alone won't make your son Shohei.

The risk of injury is real.

Interesting to read.  Son has already had a rather scary overuse injury that to me serves as a bit of a cautionary tale.  He's recovered now, but that does not mean it could not happen again.

We had to have some "train smarter, not always harder" conversations after that.  It's all for naught if a player can't play.

Even with that, son lifts on his own every day and hits or throws in the cages on his own every day.  He switch hits, so he needs to get in reps on both sides (pretty much double the reps).  This time of year he also has roughly 2.5 hours a week practicing with his travel organization, plus high school program conditioning and open gyms.  Even just reading that, I hope he's not working up to an overuse injury.  Hoping no one else here ever has to deal with that.  Really awful to work so hard only to miss games with an injury.

@adbono posted:

HS players would be well advised to incorporate exercises to increase hip mobility into their training routine. The more hip mobility a player has the more potential he has to move his body well - which increases the probability of him being an elite player. So much of how well any player performs is defined by the limits of his body. Yoga and other related activities can really help. Power comes from properly (and quickly) rotating the hips on time. And this is true for both pitchers & hitters.

both my boys started yoga / sports prep in 7th grade 3X / week.  Lady that they trained w/ in Cleburne went on to TCU to be on the football teams athletic department training staff (yoga and speed training).  both boys said they missed it once they got to college.

Adbono;

In the previous Century, "ball room" dancing was suggested by Pro Scouts. This improves the "hips" and develop light feet = mobility.

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Adbono;

In the previous Century, "ball room" dancing was suggested by Pro Scouts. This improves the "hips" and develop light feet = mobility.

Bob

What a great idea to use ballroom dancing as an activity to increase hip mobility and to develop quick feet! I would have never thought of that.

My son is dedicated, but equally to other pursuits which take up a lot of time as well.  At this time he spends approximately 2-3 hours a day dedicated to baseball/training 6 of 7 days a week, one day a week he takes to just vedge, which is okay by me.  He is not a video game player. In that 2-3 hours are team winter practices/lifts, individual training and lessons (not all every day).

My older son's workout sessions (lifting or mobility work) at Cressey never lasted more than 30-40min.  Skills practice (drills and throwing) never more than 1 hour, often less depending on intensity.  That was their take on the most effective training.  I asked him about it one time as I always thought it should be more, but he said no, that's all they want him to do,  he said some guys take longer, but they do a lot of walking around and socializing during that time. (keep in mind these are all dedicated college/pro athletes training there).

I can't complain with the results.

My only caution for you on your son spending 4-5 hours a day training, is this: 1.  Does he give his body enough recovery time.  2. Does he get enough sleep and 3. Does this give him enough time to eat properly or is he doing a lot of drive thru to make up for the time?

I think it's healthy to take off at least a day a week to rest and regain strength.  After all there is  alot of growing and developing happening as a teenager and the body needs time to rejuvenate. Son was injured for 8 weeks (not baseball related) and did a limited strength and conditioning program 3x a week during that time just to maintain a basic level of fitness and honestly I think the rest was good. He was able to gain some weight and muscle and has come back stronger and better. This is after about years of training year round with very little break which in retrospect as a preteen was probably not the best idea especially with open growth plates.

@HSDad22 posted:

My son is dedicated, but equally to other pursuits which take up a lot of time as well.  At this time he spends approximately 2-3 hours a day dedicated to baseball/training 6 of 7 days a week, one day a week he takes to just vedge, which is okay by me.  He is not a video game player. In that 2-3 hours are team winter practices/lifts, individual training and lessons (not all every day).

My older son's workout sessions (lifting or mobility work) at Cressey never lasted more than 30-40min.  Skills practice (drills and throwing) never more than 1 hour, often less depending on intensity.  That was their take on the most effective training.  I asked him about it one time as I always thought it should be more, but he said no, that's all they want him to do,  he said some guys take longer, but they do a lot of walking around and socializing during that time. (keep in mind these are all dedicated college/pro athletes training there).

I can't complain with the results.

My only caution for you on your son spending 4-5 hours a day training, is this: 1.  Does he give his body enough recovery time.  2. Does he get enough sleep and 3. Does this give him enough time to eat properly or is he doing a lot of drive thru to make up for the time?

I've heard him saying it was leg day or core day, so I think with the variation of exercises he's allowing enough recovery time.

As for sleep he could improve in this area, but I'm partly to blame. He attends a morning scripture study course before school during the week, which does cut his sleep time by an hour. Goes to sleep sometime between 10-11pm depending on his school work and wakes up at 6am. He does use the weekend to catch up.

Food wise, absolutely eating properly. Too cheap to do drive thru, plus on a specific diet in order to add pounds. Lots of lean protein. My grocery bill is insane. I'd say 75 percent of the time he approves of what I have fixed, but the other 25 percent apparently isn't up to his standards...so he fixes his own meal. Basically I have to keep chicken breasts, tuna steaks, and salmon in the freezer for him took cook up.

@Consultant posted:

Adbono;

In the previous Century, "ball room" dancing was suggested by Pro Scouts. This improves the "hips" and develop light feet = mobility.

Bob

And the chicks dig it more than the long ball. If you’re single and can dance every available woman is an option.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Disagree.

Without going into the details I can tell you firsthand that injuries from overtraining are an issue for many college athletes. Sometimes the problems are systemic to an entire program.

Phelps has a >6 foot wingspan and an outlier torso to leg ratio. Greg Louganis has 80% more fast-twitch muscle than the average person. Serena Williams said she hated going to the gym, did everything she could to avoid it. MJ did not train himself into a 36" vertical leap.

Nature over nurture.

One can maximize their physical talent but training alone won't make your son Shohei.

The risk of injury is real.

I'm totally on board with your comment @SpeedDemon.  Overtraining is an issue.  You have to find the workout routine that works best for you, and sometimes high schoolers don't have access to the best resources for that, or feel over training makes them better baseball players,  Not the case.   Of course, position players and pitchers are going to have different training regimes.  My son told me about two guys on his college team that he thought were addicted to working out....they were in the gym all the time and were ridiculous with their nutritional regime.  They were obsessed with all of it, but they weren't obsessed with baseball.   

Additionally, when my son was being recruited he noticed one of the offering programs had a significant number of the same pitching injuries since the new pitching coach took over.   It is a fantastic school, but this was a huge red flag for us.   

It is a fine line.  You have to show up in the best shape of your life when you get to college.  At the same time, you can't show up with injuries or tweaks that limit your athletic abilities. 

JMO