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On its website, the NCAA prominently states, "It's our commitment -- and our responsibility -- to give young people opportunities to learn, play and succeed." And later, it says that "in the collegiate model of sports, the young men and women competing on the field or court are students first, athletes second."

 

And now:..."the NCAA says it has no legal responsibility "to ensure the academic integrity of the courses offered to student-athletes at its member institutions.""

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/...o-lawsuit/index.html

 

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It kind of sounds like the NCAA is claiming to be like the police...they can enforce the law, they are there to serve and protect...but they don't MAKE the laws.

 

They enforce minimums needed to ensure eligibility in order to play, and the rules that everyone has to follow in order to be recruited, but they don't have any control over the schools criteria or administration to ensure education.

 

 

Originally Posted by luv baseball:

The NCAA is probably among the 10 worst institutions on the Planet.  It is an outrage what this organization has done to young men and women for over 50 years.

 

My rankings:  ISIS, Al-Qaida, Gvm'ts of Iran, North Korea and maybe 4 or 5 others.  After that comes the NCAA.  And the NCAA might be too low on the list.

That's too funny.  Great post. 

Originally Posted by luv baseball:

The NCAA is probably among the 10 worst institutions on the Planet.  It is an outrage what this organization has done to young men and women for over 50 years.

 

My rankings:  ISIS, Al-Qaida, Gvm'ts of Iran, North Korea and maybe 4 or 5 others.  After that comes the NCAA.  And the NCAA might be too low on the list.


Just out of curiosity, where do the Mafia, the Klan, Congress, the League of Shadows, the International Olympic Committee, and FIFA end up in your rankings?

 

Not arguing, just wondering.

 

I'm no fan of the NCAA, but you have to admire their ability to latch onto a revenue stream that they (themselves) aren't producing diddly squat.  A long time ago, they had this incredible vision (and luck) that our society would crave amateur athletic competition.  They seized upon it like a wood tick, burrowed themselves into the media, colleges, and socitey that would eventually bring it to new heights ($$$$) and power.

 

They've appointed themselves (with permission from the college presidents, media and us) as the final word on college sports.  Various athletic conferences are now questioning that authority and it is going to get real interesting in the coming years.  Who is going to get that revenue stream...the schools...the students...the (gasp!) athletes?  As I've said before....It is an incredible con they've pulled off with the help of an army of lawyers.  Is it the best con of all time?  It is certainly worthy of consideration.  But, time will tell.   JMO.

Last edited by fenwaysouth
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

National Collegiate Athletic Association

 

National Collegiate Athletic Association.  Their first priority should be Athletics - it's in the name, and the second priority, which supports the first, is that it's College sports.  Instead, the NCAA focuses on ridiculous notions of amateurism, as if that has anything to do with college or sports.  A member of the band can get paid for playing at a bar on Friday, yet still play in the marching band Saturday.  Instead of focusing on $$$, the NCAA should be ensuring that the athletes representing a school truly represent the school.  I'd love to see something along the lines of the Ivy League's Academic index, which essentially requires that an athletes academic credentials don't differ significantly from the student body in general.  The vast majority of student athletes are both students and athletes.  UNC wouldn't need fake courses and Syracuse wouldn't need coaches to do the homework if their athletes were roughly as academically prepared as the NARPs, and most are, but the NCAA minimums are no where near as rigorous as UNC's or Syracuse's normal mins, so it's easy to bring in kids who simply don't belong.

Originally Posted by rob88dunham:
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

National Collegiate Athletic Association

 

National Collegiate Athletic Association.  Their first priority should be Athletics - it's in the name, and the second priority, which supports the first, is that it's College sports.  Instead, the NCAA focuses on ridiculous notions of amateurism, as if that has anything to do with college or sports.  A member of the band can get paid for playing at a bar on Friday, yet still play in the marching band Saturday.  Instead of focusing on $$$, the NCAA should be ensuring that the athletes representing a school truly represent the school.  I'd love to see something along the lines of the Ivy League's Academic index, which essentially requires that an athletes academic credentials don't differ significantly from the student body in general.  The vast majority of student athletes are both students and athletes.  UNC wouldn't need fake courses and Syracuse wouldn't need coaches to do the homework if their athletes were roughly as academically prepared as the NARPs, and most are, but the NCAA minimums are no where near as rigorous as UNC's or Syracuse's normal mins, so it's easy to bring in kids who simply don't belong.

I am in total agreement.  The standards for the athletes should not be much less than an institution's other students.  The focus needs to come back to the athlete's best interest, which really should be education. 
Education for these athletes will prove more valuable for the majority over the long run.  However, the NCAA & the Big Time Universities in Football/Basketball don't seem as concerned as they should be regarding student academics. 

Originally Posted by freddy77:

.

The NCAA has a moral responsibility to promote "students first, athletes second" in every way that feasible and realistic.

 

It's ridiculously unrealistic to expect the NCAA to assume legal responsibility for the academic integrity of the courses offered to student-athletes.

I agree. While I have some issues with the NCAA, I don't see that they should be held responsible for making sure that students go to class, or for the integrity of those classes.

Each school has a compliance department, and they should'nt need the NCAA as their watchdog.  

Going to class and being advised as to what courses one needs for their major to graduate on time (yes get their degree) is the responsibility of the school.  It also is responsibility of the conferences, to oversee that their programs uphold the highest standards for their athletes.

The Academic Progress Rate is a hammer the NCAA has used to ban schools from Post Season competition.  UCONN for example was banned from the 2013 NCAA tourney and penalized 2 scholarships. 

 

UNC lost 9 football scholarships in its academic fraud case in football.

 

Since the NCAA can and has prosecuted schools based on academic performance how on God's green earth can it turn a blind eye like Pontius Pilot and wash its hands of any responsibility? 

 

When it finds blatant cheating regarding its central tenant that these are STUDENT athletes you'd think that would result in something draconian.  From the NCAA website:

 

Examples of violations

 Level I
  • Lack of institutional control.
  • Academic fraud.

So it seems the NCAA in fact DOES have policing powers in this arena.  And like most everything it does it is an abject failure to be either consistent or vigilant.  In this case if too many questions were asked the whole rotten system might implode on itself at least in the football and basketball arenas.

 

Poverty stricken young junior in high school. Highest level athlete! Can't afford the necessary equipment. Never has any money.

 

Don't feed him or he could be punished by the NCAA. Don't give him shoes or equipment.

 

However, if someone is just a normal student without any athletic ability, spend as much as you want helping that kid out. The NCAA doesn't care even a little.

 

I actually understand the reasoning behind some of these rules.  There are a lot of people that will take advantage of a young athlete. However, when it comes to the most important things (like FOOD) how do you punish a poor kid because someone bought him a sandwich?

 

I wish they would take some of the rules and adjust them. No two kids are in the exact same situation.  There are many kids that actually need help. There is a big difference between buying a young kid a new Porsche or getting him a needed pair of shoes.

Originally Posted by luv baseball:

The NCAA is probably among the 10 worst institutions on the Planet.  It is an outrage what this organization has done to young men and women for over 50 years.

 

My rankings:  ISIS, Al-Qaida, Gvm'ts of Iran, North Korea and maybe 4 or 5 others.  After that comes the NCAA.  And the NCAA might be too low on the list.

So the NCAA is the Great Satan? My daughter once applied for a waiver to instruct softball at a facility for pay during winter break. She applied in August. She was approved in April. Thanks NCAA!

The Academic Progress Rate is a hammer the NCAA has used to ban schools from Post Season competition.  UCONN for example was banned from the 2013 NCAA tourney and penalized 2 scholarships.

 

APR is a joke. UConn has to be a complete failure to be penalized. In order to be in "good standing" a player only has to be passing his classes. It only takes 50% in good standing to not be in violation. The last three players on an NCAA basketball bench came in as top scholarship, top academic students who are only on the team for practice and APR reasons.** Any player who leaves to turn pro or transfers in good academic standing does not count in APR. So it six player go pro or transfer you're left with nine players for the NCAA to evaluate for APR. You need five in good standing to be in compliance. Three of them are sitting in the end of the bench and not on scholarship. Therefore, two of six legit players have to be in good standing for the program to be ok. And UConn screwed this up. 

 

** One of these kids is on one of the teams in the Final Four. He's played about sixty minutes his entire career. He's hoping to become a graduate assistant and ultimately a college coach. He's a 3.8 student graduating on time.

Last edited by RJM

And then there's this from the CNN article http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/...o-lawsuit/index.html:

 

The NCAA, which was founded a century ago to protect athletes from "dangerous and exploitive athletic practices," now says it does not enforce health and safety rules.

In fact, in response to a lawsuit filed by the family of a player who died in 2011, the NCAA wrote: "The NCAA denies that it has a legal duty to protect student-athletes."

A CNN investigation found that the NCAA has failed to open investigations in several cases where safety rules allegedly were broken. It has also fallen behind in imposing rules for concussions -- far behind even the NFL.

 

 

 

 

The issue was not that players were meeting their GPA requirements but rather they were not taking enough classes to graduate in a timely fashion.

This was very common among D1 baseball.  

 

Full scholarship players (mainly football and basketball) at most programs are taken care of.   I never saw a football player that looked hungry.  

 

Life actually is much better in college than in the lower levels of professional ball.

 

I have some issues with the NCAA but I can attest to the fact that my player went to school and was taken care of by HIS college. HIS coach made sure he went to class, HIS athletic adviser made sure he took the right classes, HIS pitching coach stayed on his butt, and he went to the cafeteria up teen times a day and ate well.  The only thing that I know the NCAA did was make sure he had a day off and that the coaches were not working with him when they were not supposed to.  

 

The only time that I heard an NCAA complaint was during post season, that the stipend on the road given by the NCAA was not enough to feed a very hungry growing man. This was addressed and as far as I know, the stipend didn't change but programs subsidize the difference.  These programs are very rich and can feed their athletes who might bring home a championship.  I hear the stipend in post season in football is amazing.  I may be wrong on that one.

The NCAA does not have to make sure that my son graduates. He has been out of school for 8 seasons and he never got one letter from the NCAA that he needs to graduate, but HIS former program told him when you are ready we will be here.

I don't think that you can ask or expect much more than that.

 

My family has great memories of college baseball.  Never once did we think that it was a sham, but I also know that we were realistic in our expectations.  

 

How many people actually bother to do their homework for possible NCAA infractions of the school, or check graduation rates among a programs athletes?  

 

If this is important, you need to discuss this during recruiting by asking the HC what his/her goals and expectations are and how he/she will make the journey better for your player.

Last edited by TPM
Originally Posted by RJM:
Originally Posted by luv baseball:

The NCAA is probably among the 10 worst institutions on the Planet.  It is an outrage what this organization has done to young men and women for over 50 years.

 

My rankings:  ISIS, Al-Qaida, Gvm'ts of Iran, North Korea and maybe 4 or 5 others.  After that comes the NCAA.  And the NCAA might be too low on the list.

So the NCAA is the Great Satan? My daughter once applied for a waiver to instruct softball at a facility for pay during winter break. She applied in August. She was approved in April. Thanks NCAA!

RJM - Obviously my previous comment was dripping with sarcasm.  I do believe the NCAA is a rotten institution primarily because it repeatedly twists itself into a knot with misty eyed idealistic statements about student/athletes while committing what are essentially criminal labor practices.  The Power 5 conferences generate between $19MM and $26MM every year per school from TV money alone.  That is almost $200k per football and basketball player on the low end. 

 

When you cut through all the BS here is the basic question -

 

When billions of dollars are changing hands at the professional level - it is a business and the players receive millions of dollars.

 

When billions of dollars are changing hands at the college level - somehow it is NOT a business and the players receive virtually nothing if they cannot graduate which is the result in way too many cases.

 

If you would like to disagree with me that is fine.  But consider this from the man that is most responsible for creating the system.  This was in 1995 in Mr. Byers last public appearance:

 

Walter Byers, who retired in 1987 as executive director after 36 years with the NCAA, said

 

"dramatic changes are necessary to permit athletes to participate in the enormous proceeds" produced by big-time college athletics.

 

He said Wednesday that a "neo-plantation mentality" exists under the present system, where coaches and administrators act as "overseers and supervisors" who "own the athlete's body."

 

"I believe the athletes should have the same access to the commercial marketplace that the supervisors and overseers as well as other students have," he said.

 

You read that right.  He called the NCAA a slaveholder institution. So while this falls short of terrorism - the NCAA is awful and in its current form ...deserves to die.   

 

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