Is something wrong with my son? I feel like I'm missing something

@PABaseball posted:

That being said I'd never spend $800+ on a showcase to receive a number nobody cares about. If that makes me a PG basher I can live with that.

This feels a bit like Groundhog Day on this topic, and our PG experience was the same as @PABaseball we never did a showcase. I will add that every coach my son talked to, also looked at his PG profile (not that it was spectacular, nationally ranked in the 500's - whatever that means). We did the PG tournaments because my kid enjoyed them, and I enjoyed watching him play - never went to one expecting more than that.

If you want a definitive analysis of your kids potential, pay an impartial MLB scout to watch your kid play and you'll be a lot closer to reality. I didn't pay or ask for the critique, but I got one when the kid was a junior - it turned out to be pretty spot on.

@Master P posted:

I know of a 2024 that currently has a 9 PG Grade.  He has done quite a few PG showcases.  He currently is sitting on zero D1 offers.  ZERO.

I'm not sure what that means, but it means something.

It means that the PG Grade means nothing!

I took my son to a couple PG showcases early on. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t . I think he’d be in the same position now whether or not he had attended those money wasters. Just my opinion though. Find a good travel ball team and coach that doesn’t play favoritism. Many travel teams are run by MLB scouts.  Hit the weight room . Be a good teammate .

A 2024 dad I’m friends with took his son to back to back PG showcases this summer. Started out as a 7 from sophomore year. This time he tried as a catcher. Big kid, rakes in BP. Made one pop between both showcases below a 2. They bumped him to an 8 and then a 9. The dad was laughing because the kid didn’t really show any gains between events. Here’s the kicker, he’s a terrible catcher.

It's like Grade Inflation, everyone gets at least an 8.  Especially if they go and pay for a local PG evaluation.  There is way too much project-ability in the grading system, it should be where they are "right now".  But then nobody would pay for the grade at 15yo.  I'm not sure if any recruiter pays attention to the grades, because there is one question it doesn't answer, "Can they play the game."  I do think the grades are for Parents

I mean seriously what does this mean (below)?

Son's Hs teammate was graded 8.5 and saw 3-4 non conference innings at a mid DIII freshman.  Good kid, good player, hard worker, but he was the furthest thing from a potential draft pick, and college must mean any college.  But when grading is a range of 1-10, seems they should re-evaluate the system.  A little more bell to the curve.

The PG Grade was originally meant to project future possibility. I am not sure if that concept has changed.

As far as that potential player being a future draft pick, maybe he just didn't do what's needed to reach that 8.5?

FYI, freshman very rarely play at any program, no matter what division.

"I took my son to a couple PG showcases early on. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t ." 

"The PG grade definitely matters...to the players and sometimes the parents, especially the crazy baseball obsessed ones"

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I'm admit guilty of this.  Even though I have an older kid and should have known better.  Perhaps this explains my animus towards PG.  A small part of me was not 100% sure if there wasn't some sort of a gain to be had by an early high PG grade.  I believe that EVERY coach looks at a kids the PG profile at least once and it couldn't hurt to have a positive write up and a 8.5 score or higher. right?   lol. But with some poor decision making, I sent my kid to one last winter and graded 7.5 despite being 90th plus percentile in every metric. Now I live in constant temptation of going to just... one... more... damn... PG showcase to clear that grade.  And relying on TBPT to regularly beat me with a reality stick. 

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

"I took my son to a couple PG showcases early on. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t ."

"The PG grade definitely matters...to the players and sometimes the parents, especially the crazy baseball obsessed ones"

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I'm admit guilty of this.  Even though I have an older kid and should have known better.  Perhaps this explains my animus towards PG.  A small part of me was not 100% sure if there wasn't some sort of a gain to be had by an early high PG grade.  I believe that EVERY coach looks at a kids the PG profile at least once and it couldn't hurt to have a positive write up and a 8.5 score or higher. right?   lol. But with some poor decision making, I sent my kid to one last winter and graded 7.5 despite being 90th plus percentile in every metric. Now I live in constant temptation of going to just... one... more... damn... PG showcase to clear that grade.  And relying on TBPT to regularly beat me with a reality stick.

90th percentile nationally? Or just the showcase he attended? Freshman? Rising Freshman? Sophomore? Junior?

Doesn't add up. Post a screenshot if you can.

@HSDad22 posted:

It's like Grade Inflation, everyone gets at least an 8.  Especially if they go and pay for a local PG evaluation.  There is way too much project-ability in the grading system, it should be where they are "right now".  But then nobody would pay for the grade at 15yo.  I'm not sure if any recruiter pays attention to the grades, because there is one question it doesn't answer, "Can they play the game."  I do think the grades are for Parents

I mean seriously what does this mean (below)?

8	Potential draft pick and/or excellent college prospect

Son's Hs teammate was graded 8.5 and saw 3-4 non conference innings at a mid DIII freshman.  Good kid, good player, hard worker, but he was the furthest thing from a potential draft pick, and college must mean any college.  But when grading is a range of 1-10, seems they should re-evaluate the system.  A little more bell to the curve.

Like any grading scale you need to look at the big picture. Does anyone receive less than 6.5? Very few, if any. Does anyone receive a 10? Very few. That's your scale. Count up how many of each grade 6.5 through 10 and there you will find your bell curve.

Does anyone really think grades 8 and 9 really mean anything?

Having a grade doesn't mean you can play; it simply places you in a bucket of like-metrics

@PABaseball posted:

You're trying to convince a bunch of people who have been through the process, sat with coaches, have been coaches having those conversations with parents, are currently coaches, etc, that PG grades matter. They don't. There is more than enough (anecdotal of course) evidence on this board where people have asked coaches how much stock they put into rankings, ratings, etc and the answer every time is zero. In the rare cases where they do, the same coaches go and vet the kids themselves before doing anything with that information.

Coaches are not heading over to PGs site and sorting by showcase grades to see who they're going to target. They don't cross kids off their list because PG only has them as an 8 and not an 8.5. Does PG get the top of the heap right? Of course, they all play for Evoshield, Five Star, Dulins, 643, Team Elite etc. It's pretty easy to see who the top guys are when they all get together and play against each other in the playoffs, in Jupiter, etc. My guess would be the top 200 players are probably spread out across 20 or so teams - who run into each other fairly regularly.

Once again, you (and others) keep talking about "rankings". I'm talking about GRADES. They are simply a grouping of like-metrics, regardless of what a PG write-up says about what each grade represents.

National level travel teams are usually made up of kids from all over; they don't develop talent themselves. How do you think they identify players to invite for their teams? You haven't seen these teams recruiting from the PG Junior National Showcase and other events?

Again, not talking about rankings here-just grades. You don't receive a grade (today) without having metrics and that usually means you attended a showcase. Unless you are a pitcher--who received pitching metrics at a tourney.

Not disputing how college coaches find players but anyone here who thinks PG (and others--like PBR) doesn't have at some impact is in denial. Me, I'm a realist. Coaches don't have the time or resources to evaluate every high school player in the country based upon that kid sending email with his metrics on the subject line. These prep organizations most definitely have an impact.

Every major college program out there crows about their recruiting class rankings (and no, those are not based on GRADES)...

@ABSORBER posted:

90th percentile nationally? Or just the showcase he attended? Freshman? Rising Freshman? Sophomore? Junior?

Doesn't add up. Post a screenshot if you can.T

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Their listed percentiles are national.  He is kinda young for class also so keep that in mind.

I'm sorry, I feel like 2022NYC.  Lol.

PERCENTILE RANKINGS

CLASS OF 2025 in the recorded year

CATEGORY	TOP RESULT	CLASS AVG	PERCENTILE
FB	84 mph	75 mph	91.82%
60	7.27 sec	7.60 sec	71.78%
10 SPL	1.60 sec	1.76 sec	91.66%
1B	82 mph	73 mph	89.36%

Position? Don't know what to tell you. Here are the 8 2025 1B's who threw 82 at a PG showcase in 2022:

Is your kid one of them? If so, his grade should be 8 or 9 since these eight were grade 8 or 9.

(First column is grade, second column is 1B velo)

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Their listed percentiles are national.  He is kinda young for class also so keep that in mind.

I'm sorry, I feel like 2022NYC.  Lol.

PERCENTILE RANKINGS

CLASS OF 2025 in the recorded year

CATEGORY	TOP RESULT	CLASS AVG	PERCENTILE
FB	84 mph	75 mph	91.82%
60	7.27 sec	7.60 sec	71.78%
10 SPL	1.60 sec	1.76 sec	91.66%
1B	82 mph	73 mph	89.36%

And one more item to note: a grade is given after the conclusion of a showcase (usually within a month or so). That grade won't get updated again regardless of what kind of stud the players develops into. There are plenty of cases where a newly drafted player has a poor grade (or no grade at all) on the PG site!

So, yes, if you received a not-so-hot grade then you will fall into the PG trap of continuously attending showcases! But I don't believe PG gives out grades with this in mind; it's just a common effect. They aren't twisting your arm.

In the case of the numbers listed above above, they would have to apply to only the showcase in question, not the player's cumulative metrics. So if you son happened to throw 90 a week ago his grade won't change.

OK. this is done.  A burnt chicken on the grill.  Let's move along.

What I got out of this thread, other similar threads, and my own experience.

• Showcases are helpful to capture verified metrics; BUT only go to showcases if you know you have something to show.
• PG showcases at $800 is not worth it.  Go to cheaper showcases that captures the same verifiable metrics.  If you really want to show metrics in PG, go to the cheaper 1 day WWBA workouts.
• While metrics are helpful, and I do think coaches do look at your metrics, I do land on the camp of "PG grades and rankings do not mean anything".
• Metrics is just one aspect.  Coaches still definitely want to see you play.  They could also identify you based on how you play w/o looking at PG profile/grades/ranking/metrics first (which is what happened with my son).
• There are a lot of what we call "showcase kids".  These are kids who has the look, and have really good metrics, but does not translate on the field.  They may not have the right attitude, character, temperament, etc.  There are also a lot of ways to game the numbers in showcases doing things that you won't do in a game.  I still expect these kids to be recruited and be given opportunity bec there's always the chance that the coach can teach these kids how to play later on.  More often than not, they just flame out.
• While PG showcases are not worth it, the bigger/major PG tournaments could be worth it if you are on one of the teams that can really compete (and not just be the sacrificial punching bag).  For example, in the recent 17u WWBA with 418 teams, I believe you could have had a much better tournament by just taking the best 100 teams, playing true round robin, and then everyone gets into bracket play.  The teams outside of the top 100 teams would be better off (financially and exposure wise) to play local or arrange for round robins at colleges.

For example, in the recent 17u WWBA with 418 teams

Wow! I thought it was way too many several years as ago when it was about 320.

@RJM posted:

For example, in the recent 17u WWBA with 418 teams

Wow! I thought it was way too many several years as ago when it was about 320.

And the only way PG can accommodate these many teams in ATL is by having teams playing in fields that are 1 hr or more away from East Cobb.  No one who lives locally even considers these location to be in Atlanta.  I like the PBR tournaments a lot more.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

OK. this is done.  A burnt chicken on the grill.  Let's move along.

A horse being dead has never been reason enough for some people to stop beating it.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

OK. this is done.  A burnt chicken on the grill.  Let's move along.

Wow, I can't wait until tomorrow to find a situation to use the above expression!

Final update.

What a difference a month makes. The phone did start ringing and he had multiple offers. He ended up taking the first one and, in my opinion, the strongest academic/baseball combo of his options. Pepperdine U. I will say, there were multiple P5’s that ended up showing some interest (four), but definitely the schools on the lighter side of the ledger and no heavy pursuit or offers prior to his acceptance of this one. Could he have made it to a P5? Who knows, I don’t really care but it is relevant in the context of the conversation string so thought I’d share. In the end, he really liked Danny Worth and Rick Hirtensteiner. The fact that Coach Worth came out to a game at WWBA, they built a nice pregame report, and kid was raking that day all didn’t hurt.

All we can ask for in life is a shot— he’s got it, we’ll see where this goes. I sure am beaming with pride right now though, thanks to all who shared a little bit of this journey. Baseball’s the best, except when it isn’t. But today, it’s the best.