Is something wrong with my son? I feel like I'm missing something

@Giff posted:

He's on a top of the line travel team (maybe too good as they have several of the top 2024 catchers so he doesn't get much time behind the plate, he DH's every game) that team includes a catcher committed to LSU and one committed to Vandy who are both ranked in the top 50. option right now.

Seems to me you just answered your own question. Coaches want to see a kid play and they aren't seeing yours do that. And, I'll just say it, the first thing that came to my mind is why on earth would this guy let his son sit the bench behind two top 50 players.

Your son sounds like he is a very talented player.  I think there are many here who have been in your shoes, and wonder what is going on here.     Based on what you shared, I'm questioning the outbound communication by your son to these programs that have seen him.....you didn't mention anything there.   It appears he is attending many showcases and tournaments but not getting traction based on your post.   How is he introducing himself to these coaches, attending the showcase/camps and then following up?   Is his travel/high school coach involved in the process or reaching out on your son's behalf?

There is a big difference between marketing and sales.   Your son is marketing his capabilities, but it appears he is not really selling himself to these coaches.   Selling is the grunt work, on-going communications, and operations that needs to happen to close the deal.   I didn't get the sense your son was constantly selling himself to these programs, nor any mention of a travel coach helping sell your son's skills.   It is possible he is doing these things, but you didn't mention it so that was my first thought.

JMO.  Good luck!

Thanks JMO! I can say we have been sending out e-mails and have just recently hired an agent from Elite Sports Advising. Maybe that's the way to do this. It just didn't seem like many of our emails were being read (although I cant prove that, of course). I'll stay at it on that front.

As far as the travel team, I think it is accurate to say we should have gone in a different direction. It feels pretty late to switch teams now, but it is a team where most of the guys were in the top 300. And anytime I think to switch teams, I worry about any fallout from that move--it happens. This team was competitive to win the whole WWBA each of the last few years, but this seems to be the down-side of the "stacked" travel team, lots of talent at each position.

Have you had a conversation with the travel coach or head of organization about this?  That is essential; they are the people who should be able to tell you what is going on.

I think that is the real problem "anotherparent", we're having communication issues with the travel coach. I generally like him, but we're in crunch time and need help. The agent we hired has actually been very responsive thus far. Maybe I'm just so used to failing to get a response that I'm just happy to get one-- it is nice to have him around.

As a retired Marine and combat veteran I sometimes wonder where we find all the fake tough-guys in this travel ball world. As a father, I'm looking for a good human being that loves the game to Coach my son and hopefully teach him the skillset and passion for the game necessary to succeed. That seems to be a hell of a lot to ask for in the modern travel ball world.

Giff:

As the "founder" of the Area Code games [1987 to 2004], during our 12 tryouts from California to Texas to East Coast, I attended every tryout to observe the players, pro scouts and College Coaches. Never did I receive this question from the parents.

Why DO YOU NOT CHARGE THE PLAYERS?

The College Coaches are NOT interested in Showcase "ranking"!

They are interested in players, who know how to "win" games with their bat, glove, feet, arm and above all their brain. What catchers glove, Wilson or Rawlings?

Does he have the 6th tool?

Bob

@Giff posted:

and have just recently hired an agent from Elite Sports Advising. Maybe that's the way to do this.

OK, any one here will tell you that I have always loathed others that were willing to call out someone for being "that parent". I got the vibe after the first post, the above confirms it for me. The problem most likely isn't your kid, it's you. My son didn't have the metrics yours apparently does coming out of HS, but he had 7 offers his jr year, including some from highly ranked schools, ended up going to P5. No agent needed.

It's Akums Razor. Your kid hits all the marks but nobody wants to deal with him. Not trying to be a dick. I do understand the desire to help your child. Sometimes one just gets caught up in it.

Recruiting classes are shrinking as D1’s are still dealing with roster logjams coming out of the pandemic, and also utilizing the transfer portal more than ever.

Most likely, that is a large part of what is going on.

@Giff posted:

As a retired Marine and combat veteran I sometimes wonder where we find all the fake tough-guys in this travel ball world.

thank you, sir, for your service!  

Hopefully things will pick up.  If not, a JUCO might be something to look at.  If he was All District in Texas there will likely be several JUCO’s that would want him.  

“Somebaseballdad” —thanks for the help. You seem like you’ve got this nailed down. You reminded me why I left this site before. thete are several nice people on here trying to help others out, unfortunately surrounded by “experts” like you with an axe to grind. Bizarre posts with inferences out of nowhere.

Thank you 3and2! Juco is definitely on the table for him, we’ll see.

@Giff posted:

“Somebaseballdad” —thanks for the help. You seem like you’ve got this nailed down. You reminded me why I left this site before. thete are several nice people on here trying to help others out, unfortunately surrounded by “experts” like you with an axe to grind. Bizarre posts with inferences out of nowhere.

I knew that wouldn't go over well but I tried. If your kid is so good, why isn't he getting offers? Either he's not that good or.... The whole baseball world didn't get together in a group text and decide to f*** your son.

Recruiting for HS players has been getting more difficult every year since 2020. And the recruiting timeline has been getting a little later each of the past few years too. Texas, as you know, is full of good players and a lot of really good 2024s don’t have offers yet. But I have noticed that very few of them have adjusted their sights in light of all the events that have negatively impacted recruiting - the most obvious being the trifecta of extra years of eligibility, the transfer portal, and the reduction of the MLB draft to 20 rounds. All these things have had the combined effect of keeping players in college longer. Rosters are full of older guys that have enough experience that a kid straight of of HS rarely has a chance to take playing time away from them. My first comment is to forget about the metrics. Metrics alone don’t make any player a D1 guy. Coaches need to see your son play. Maybe he could guest play on another team that will put him on the field more often. My second comment would be to cast a wider net. If you aren’t looking for JuCo opportunities you should be. There is a JuCo showcase in Dallas on July 13 that I will be attending. If that doesn’t work for you look for other events on JuCo campuses. JuCo baseball in Texas is very good and is the best route for the majority of non HA players coming out of HS. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to talk specifics.

My son got offers later than a lot of guys in his cohort. I do think your son is being impacted by the transfer portal and last year of COVID seniors. I also think he might be in that space where mid majors might not think he's interested.... What kind of support is his travel coach providing?

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

I knew that wouldn't go over well but I tried. If your kid is so good, why isn't he getting offers? Either he's not that good or.... The whole baseball world didn't get together in a group text and decide to f*** your son.

Tequila? Vodka? What we drinking!

You mentioned you've had contact with Pepperdine. I personally know a 23' who committed to Pepperdine in January of his Senior year, and got athletic money. So it looks like maybe they recruit a bit later than most D1s, and you may have some time with them.

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Tequila? Vodka? What we drinking!

Nothing. Coaches don't pass on talent for no reason. Either the reason is he's not as talented as stated or he is but there is a big red flag. Maybe that red flag is he hits to all fields with power while batting .197 and k'ing 75% of the time, but there is something there. The #3 ranked catcher in TX doesn't get recruited by the Naval Acadamy, because they would know they don't have a chance. My son's former team, that made it to a super regional, would jump all over him, given the stats stated. Or KY, or IU, or NC, or TCU. I could go on...

adbono— awesome advice, thank you! We are spoken for on that July 13 date but I’ll reach out. JuCo in Texas is really good from all I hear and want to make sure my son is aware of all those opportunities. Here locally, the JC has reached out and he really liked the Coach. But yes, you hit on so many important issues changing the landscape. The top of the top don’t seem to be affected but those underneath, the “mid major” types are feeling these changes.

947– yes sir! He’s heard from Coach Worth and Hirty. That seems like an amazing opportunity but some of the communication fell off the last few months. I’m glad to hear that this may just be the ebb and flow of the recruiting process.

Thanks to all for preaching patience. It’s stressful for me and I am trying to maintain distance through this process so it’s his recruiting. I get that, I just need some advice now and then on when and where to be. Also the “sales” vs “marketing” above is excellent advice. Thank you

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Tequila? Vodka? What we drinking!

Iced tea. Now it’s up my nose after reading your post. Cheers!

@adbono posted:

Recruiting for HS players has been getting more difficult every year since 2020. And the recruiting timeline has been getting a little later each of the past few years too. Texas, as you know, is full of good players and a lot of really good 2024s don’t have offers yet. But I have noticed that very few of them have adjusted their sights in light of all the events that have negatively impacted recruiting - the most obvious being the trifecta of extra years of eligibility, the transfer portal, and the reduction of the MLB draft to 20 rounds. All these things have had the combined effect of keeping players in college longer. Rosters are full of older guys that have enough experience that a kid straight of of HS rarely has a chance to take playing time away from them. My first comment is to forget about the metrics. Metrics alone don’t make any player a D1 guy. Coaches need to see your son play. Maybe he could guest play on another team that will put him on the field more often. My second comment would be to cast a wider net. If you aren’t looking for JuCo opportunities you should be. There is a JuCo showcase in Dallas on July 13 that I will be attending. If that doesn’t work for you look for other events on JuCo campuses. JuCo baseball in Texas is very good and is the best route for the majority of non HA players coming out of HS. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to talk specifics.

This (above). At this point of the process if a major program steps forward you’re son is the extra, fill the recruiting hole recruit. Getting on the field could be difficult. If might be better at this point to head for a competitive JuCo he believes he can get on the field.

Just curious, why wasn’t the travel team coaching staff selling him to potential programs perceived to be good fits. My son gave his coaches a list of P5’s he felt were academic fits. The coaches agreed they were baseball fits and presold him before events.

@RJM posted:

This (above). At this point of the process if a major program steps forward you’re son is the extra, fill the recruiting hole recruit. Getting on the field could be difficult. If might be better at this point to head for a competitive JuCo he believes he can get on the field.

J

At how many major programs is the #3 RATED catcher in Texas going to be an extra. In Texas, a baseball state, not like Montana. I guess I've been out of the loop here, but back in the day the #3 rated catcher from TX was worried about where he'd be drafted, not a lack of offers from the college ranks.

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

At how many major programs is the #3 RATED catcher in Texas going to be an extra. In Texas, a baseball state, not like Montana. I guess I've been out of the loop here, but back in the day the #3 rated catcher from TX was worried about where he'd be drafted, not a lack of offers from the college ranks.

IMO that’s more a reflection of the current times than an indication that a parent or player that is overvaluing their ability. Times have changed more than most people realize

@adbono posted:

Recruiting for HS players has been getting more difficult every year since 2020. And the recruiting timeline has been getting a little later each of the past few years too. Texas, as you know, is full of good players and a lot of really good 2024s don’t have offers yet. But I have noticed that very few of them have adjusted their sights in light of all the events that have negatively impacted recruiting - the most obvious being the trifecta of extra years of eligibility, the transfer portal, and the reduction of the MLB draft to 20 rounds. All these things have had the combined effect of keeping players in college longer. Rosters are full of older guys that have enough experience that a kid straight of of HS rarely has a chance to take playing time away from them. My first comment is to forget about the metrics. Metrics alone don’t make any player a D1 guy. Coaches need to see your son play. Maybe he could guest play on another team that will put him on the field more often. My second comment would be to cast a wider net. If you aren’t looking for JuCo opportunities you should be. There is a JuCo showcase in Dallas on July 13 that I will be attending. If that doesn’t work for you look for other events on JuCo campuses. JuCo baseball in Texas is very good and is the best route for the majority of non HA players coming out of HS. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to talk specifics.

@PTWood posted:

My son got offers later than a lot of guys in his cohort. I do think your son is being impacted by the transfer portal and last year of COVID seniors. I also think he might be in that space where mid majors might not think he's interested.... What kind of support is his travel coach providing?

These two!

It sounds like your son is a bench player on a national-level team so he doesn't get to show his defensive skills all that often and the team is geared towards Top 25 recruiting...not a great setup for him. And maybe the two of you are giving off vibes of "Top 25 or bust" - ? Did you have a certain school in mind that you are holding out for, but it hasn't materialized and you're having trouble moving on? How many schools is he interested in and has he attended their camps?

I think you are doing the right thing by hiring an outside adviser. Hopefully he's told you to adjust your sights a bit, widen the scope, start considering mid-majors and Jucos. Guest playing on another team is a great idea.

Opportunity is opportunity. Take it and run with it, whenever it comes.

When I read posts like these I always question the reliability of the parent assessing the talent. But I am going to go in a different direction here. Your son getting an invite to PG National is proof that he's legit, that is a great event where I'm sure he will generate interest.

I'd also say that he should probably switch summer teams unless one or both are getting drafted in the next week. Nothing wrong with leaving for more playing time, I'm sure somebody would be very happy to have him, but yes he needs to play. Especially at a premium defensive position.

@Giff posted:

I think that is the real problem "anotherparent", we're having communication issues with the travel coach. I generally like him, but we're in crunch time and need help. The agent we hired has actually been very responsive thus far. Maybe I'm just so used to failing to get a response that I'm just happy to get one-- it is nice to have him around....

Travel programs of this caliber typically have more than one coach/person of influence.  Has your son asked other coaches (assistants), trainers or coordinators in the program for feedback and direction?  Also, these programs want to see as many on their rosters get placed as possible.  Someone in the building should be able to shed some light that will explain why it seems those efforts aren't being made and/or communication isn't happening (I'm not suggesting those questions are to be asked that directly).

Is there a possibility that there are issues off the field (grades, legal, social, choice of major, etc.)?  Does he have difficulty communicating?

Something you said in another post has merit. He has to be careful about bouncing around travel teams or coming off as a malcontent.  It is likely that any interested school will want to contact his primary travel orgs to ask questions about him and it is important that he maintain a good relationship.  But it shouldn't be that difficult to respectfully ask what steps are being taken on his behalf and if there is more he should be doing on his part.  Other questions that should be asked, whether inwardly or outwardly - At this late hour, how frequently should he be checking in with whoever in the org is driving those efforts, etc.?  Is the HC definitely that person?

The agent you hired may provide some value but won't likely be the first choice for a college to reach out to when doing due diligence.

Best to you both!

You're not the only one. I too have a 2024. I would agree about feeling like emails that son sends are completely ignored.

From what I can tell the overload of players in conjunction with the transfer portal is definitely pushing the recruiting timeline back for 2024s. I get the feeling schools are waiting to see who they can get from the portal before turning their eyes toward the HS players. Maybe I'm just telling myself this to not go crazy.

I know we're targeting the right schools. Took son to a school's camp and he came away with strong interest. Now it's a matter of taking him to other camps. Seems like the schools he's interested in have camps this month and next. Hoping they'll react the same way the coaching staff did at the interested school.

By the way, the school that has expressed interest in him was one that he had contacted earlier. They had only responded with a generic "please come to camp" response. It was if they didn't actually look at the stuff he sent them. Son overheard the coach at the camp say, "This kid hits with this much power and has that 60 time?! How is this kid not already committed somewhere?!"

I often ask myself the same question, but deep down inside I know one of the big reasons is a lack of exposure. I don't believe or have the means to pay for PG/PBR showcases. We live in a fairly rural area. His travel team doesn't travel far. There were no scouts at tourney games last summer. He didn't have much playing time for his HS team and his HS stats aren't reflective of his ability. His HS coach doesn't reach out to college programs on his behalf. His travel coaches are younger and don't have nearly the clout of someone that's been involved with baseball for years. Had a lot of parents within the state see my son play for the first time recently and comment that they were blown away with his abilities. They had heard he was a good player, but didn't put much value into it since he wasn't getting much playing time for his HS team. So I would definitely say your son needs to be playing. The more he plays the more people can evaluate his ability.

There's a kid in our area that has participated a several PG/PBR showcases and throws up solid measureables. However, I don't actually know if those numbers translate to an actual game because he hasn't had much playing time for HS or for travel. He's already indicated that he's transferring HS, so maybe he'll get enough playing time this next school year for me to actually find out.

I’d rethink his travel team. The reason you play is to showcase and have an advocate out there (the coach), for your kid. If you aren’t getting that, you need to change teams or put more emphasis on camps and showcases where coaches can see him and interact. I know a lot of schools that typically over recruit have smaller freshmen classes this year. More portal.

@Momball11 posted:

You're not the only one. I too have a 2024. I would agree about feeling like emails that son sends are completely ignored.

From what I can tell the overload of players in conjunction with the transfer portal is definitely pushing the recruiting timeline back for 2024s. I get the feeling schools are waiting to see who they can get from the portal before turning their eyes toward the HS players. Maybe I'm just telling myself this to not go crazy.

I know we're targeting the right schools. Took son to a school's camp and he came away with strong interest. Now it's a matter of taking him to other camps. Seems like the schools he's interested in have camps this month and next. Hoping they'll react the same way the coaching staff did at the interested school.

By the way, the school that has expressed interest in him was one that he had contacted earlier. They had only responded with a generic "please come to camp" response. It was if they didn't actually look at the stuff he sent them. Son overheard the coach at the camp say, "This kid hits with this much power and has that 60 time?! How is this kid not already committed somewhere?!"

I often ask myself the same question, but deep down inside I know one of the big reasons is a lack of exposure. I don't believe or have the means to pay for PG/PBR showcases. We live in a fairly rural area. His travel team doesn't travel far. There were no scouts at tourney games last summer. He didn't have much playing time for his HS team and his HS stats aren't reflective of his ability. His HS coach doesn't reach out to college programs on his behalf. His travel coaches are younger and don't have nearly the clout of someone that's been involved with baseball for years. Had a lot of parents within the state see my son play for the first time recently and comment that they were blown away with his abilities. They had heard he was a good player, but didn't put much value into it since he wasn't getting much playing time for his HS team. So I would definitely say your son needs to be playing. The more he plays the more people can evaluate his ability.

There's a kid in our area that has participated a several PG/PBR showcases and throws up solid measureables. However, I don't actually know if those numbers translate to an actual game because he hasn't had much playing time for HS or for travel. He's already indicated that he's transferring HS, so maybe he'll get enough playing time this next school year for me to actually find out.

Son overheard the coach at the camp say, "This kid hits with this much power and has that 60 time?! How is this kid not already committed somewhere?!"

Why didn’t they offer?

@RJM I believe this particular coach likes to check all the boxes. We are aware he has called son's coaches to check on his character. He has chatted with my son about his academic/career interests. We also believe historically they invite a recruit for a visit to better determine fit. This is a program that typically takes HS players over transfers. They have very few players transfer out.

@RJM posted:

Just curious, why wasn’t the travel team coaching staff selling him to potential programs perceived to be good fits.

@cabbagedad posted:

Travel programs of this caliber typically have more than one coach/person of influence.  Has your son asked other coaches (assistants), trainers or coordinators in the program for feedback and direction?  Also, these programs want to see as many on their rosters get placed as possible.  Someone in the building should be able to shed some light that will explain why it seems those efforts aren't being made and/or communication isn't happening (I'm not suggesting those questions are to be asked that directly).

In our (pre-pandemic) experience, travel coaches and organizations are obsessive about where their players commit, often encouraging them to commit to higher-level programs than they will be able to actually play.

On PG, the national travel team with a catcher committed to LSU has every single one of its players committed to top schools, except two (not catchers).  They are clearly very concerned with getting their players placed, and I'm guessing that "playing time" is not an issue.  If your son is on that team, his coaches can surely tell you what's up.

I see a couple of other teams on PG with players who are highly-ranked TX catchers.  A few of the players on these teams are committed to in-state D1s, most are not committed at all.  That is no doubt due to the backlog/transfer jam that adbono and others are talking about.  But you still have to have a conversation with your coaches about what they think you should be doing with your son.

It sounds as though you are aiming at mid-majors on a national level, and in that case I would think that the PG National ought to be helpful - but only if your travel coaches are in contact with schools of interest.

Most (but not all) schools (especially top 100 D1s) have the following priorities in how they are currently recruiting: 1) transfer portal; 2) JuCo players; 3) HS players.  Some schools are only signing a handful of HS players each class. Four years ago it was 3 to 4 times that amount. The most competitive D1 programs are recruiting fewer HS players than EVER before. That is a fact. Not an opinion.

I listened to a D1 coach on a podcast last week who said his incoming class is 50% portal/JUCO and 50% HS players.  Of the portal/JUCO players- 70% ate position players, 30% pitchers.  Of the HS players- 70% are pitchers and 30% position.

Another in the camp of "Have Patience" (draft is this weekend so expected loses become real).  But I also think he should change teams, especially if the two catchers in front of him haven't been recruited yet, because they will continue to get significant time to show their skills first.  If they have been recruited, then the coaches should be shifting to show off your son at events, if not, there is something wrong with that program.   Catchers need to be seen playing, it's arguably the most important position on the field [other than The Pitcher, :-) ]   And the value of a catcher can't be read in metrics.  Being vocal, in command, a leader, always good body language, how his teammates respond to him, how his pitchers do... all these things need to be seen in game.  (and they all need to be seen when he's on the bench too).  I'm sure he is that kid, just needs to be able to show it in games.  All those things also make it why I think being recruited out of HS as a catcher when more mature players can be found, is a tough road now.

Don't be afraid to cast your net a little wider, you know your son can also take advantage of the portal a year or two from now to move from mid-major to top 50, if that's where he belongs.  Potentially saving you lots of money in the meantime.

PS.  Make sure any social media/ recruiting sites are up to date with recent data and photo's, etc.

Best of Luck

@Giff posted:

I've posted periodically for a while and just need a sanity check. My 2024 has really good metrics: He's 6'2, 210, runs a 6.98, 101 EV, 1.95 POP, hits to all fields with power, frames, blocks, etc. He's done really well and is ranked within the top 250 of PG for 2024. He was a Preseason All-American for PG and All-District here in Texas. It's just, he is simply not being recruited, certainly not with any urgency. He's on a top of the line travel team (maybe too good as they have several of the top 2024 catchers so he doesn't get much time behind the plate, he DH's every game) that team includes a catcher committed to LSU and one committed to Vandy who are both ranked in the top 50.

I played D1 at Cal so have some sense of how this all works but with this being the summer between Jr/Sr year I know the timeline is getting short. I thought some school would come along by now.

Last week we went to the Stanford camp. 30 coaches, my son played well, even hitting a GS in a live game in front of Coach Esquer and many on the staff of other schools.  They told him they liked what they saw but then...well I'm not sure? No one reached out to him or spoke with him at camp re: recruitment. I just want to help him find a place to play and time/money is short. He has the PG National Showcase next week at Chase Field in AZ and then the WWBA in Georgia the following week. I should say we have had limited contact with Pepperdine, AFA, and the Naval Academy. Tulane called one time last year but no f/u.

Lastly, he tried out for Area Codes but just cant seem to make it. Texas is pretty well stacked with catchers but he is the PG ranked #3 catcher for Texas and played well at the tryouts. The Rangers roster just came out...nothing.

I'm just a little bummed on a few fronts and perhaps I'm not seeing some "fatal flaw" in his game--but I don't think its there. Maybe it's because he is not super flashy? Not sure. Is there someone out there with helpful thoughts? I barely know what to tell him anymore--the "just keep working hard and good things will happen" phrase is wearing thin but it seems to be my only option right now.

1) He shouldn't be on a travel team sitting behind two top 50 catchers.

2) What are the two of you doing to reach out to schools that he has a legit shot at being signed?  Are you sending film to realistic colleges and Universities?   

3) Have you had a conversation with his travel coach to see if they are doing anything on his behalf?

4) This is a new era of College baseball recruiting.  There aren't going to be as many high school kids recruited now that the transfer portal is available to coaches.   I know for a fact that this was a factor in my 2024 RHP not getting an offer from a school he had targeted.   They told his travel ball coach that in years past they wouldn't have passed upon my son, but that now they want to hold onto the spot for possible transfer portal players they are considering.   

I would let the summer play out now.  Recruiting tends to happen all at once in the summer before senior year!  Plus, your travel coach will probably put him in if a team wants to see him; my son pitched on a high-profile travel team for about 4 weeks in June/July and had an offer by August.  Let us know what happens. 

Let me add something to this thread.   I mentioned in an earlier post that coaches are not recruiting as many  high school players due to transfer portal.   I spoke with my son's travel coach a couple of weeks ago, and he shared with me that he had a conversation with a head baseball coach at a Mid level D1 school that was recruiting my son and then after four weeks of recruitment ghosted him.   The travel coach called them to see what was up with that, and the head coach told him that they didn't want to fill up all of their spots with high school commitments, and then be in a position to get someone out of the transfer portal and not have room.    He told the travel coach that they had intended to circle back around to my son if they didn't find anything in the portal, but he has now already committed to another school. 

I suspect that by the end of summer when the Transfer portal carousel stops, that there will be a lot of D1 schools that just didn't find anything in the Transfer portal that they liked.   Thus they will resume filling their roster with high school recruits.   I don't think that the window for 2024 has closed.   I anticipate that there will be a lot of 2024 kids that get offers at the end of July and August when these D1 schools don't find what they want in the transfer portal.

@Ster posted:

Let me add something to this thread.   I mentioned in an earlier post that coaches are not recruiting as many  high school players due to transfer portal.   I spoke with my son's travel coach a couple of weeks ago, and he shared with me that he had a conversation with a head baseball coach at a Mid level D1 school that was recruiting my son and then after four weeks of recruitment ghosted him.   The travel coach called them to see what was up with that, and the head coach told him that they didn't want to fill up all of their spots with high school commitments, and then be in a position to get someone out of the transfer portal and not have room.    He told the travel coach that they had intended to circle back around to my son if they didn't find anything in the portal, but he has now already committed to another school.

I suspect that by the end of summer when the Transfer portal carousel stops, that there will be a lot of D1 schools that just didn't find anything in the Transfer portal that they liked.   Thus they will resume filling their roster with high school recruits.   I don't think that the window for 2024 has closed.   I anticipate that there will be a lot of 2024 kids that get offers at the end of July and August when these D1 schools don't find what they want in the transfer portal.

I believe that outlook is overly optimistic

Adbono;

Can you imagine the increased talent level of the California and Texas JC's?

The "red shirt" year will be very important to the player and the Coach.

Bob

@HSDad22 posted:

Another in the camp of "Have Patience" (draft is this weekend so expected loses become real).  But I also think he should change teams, especially if the two catchers in front of him haven't been recruited yet, because they will continue to get significant time to show their skills first.  If they have been recruited, then the coaches should be shifting to show off your son at events, if not, there is something wrong with that program.   Catchers need to be seen playing, it's arguably the most important position on the field [other than The Pitcher, :-) ]   And the value of a catcher can't be read in metrics.  Being vocal, in command, a leader, always good body language, how his teammates respond to him, how his pitchers do... all these things need to be seen in game.  (and they all need to be seen when he's on the bench too).  I'm sure he is that kid, just needs to be able to show it in games.  All those things also make it why I think being recruited out of HS as a catcher when more mature players can be found, is a tough road now.

Don't be afraid to cast your net a little wider, you know your son can also take advantage of the portal a year or two from now to move from mid-major to top 50, if that's where he belongs.  Potentially saving you lots of money in the meantime.

PS.  Make sure any social media/ recruiting sites are up to date with recent data and photo's, etc.

Best of Luck

This ^^^

You need to have patience while at the same time aggressively contacting programs where you (and by you I mean your son) have interest.

While there may be some college programs that recruit well the vast majority can't recruit sh@^. Why do you think they end up hitting the transfer portal?

Your son's best bet is the PG National Showcase. This is the real deal. There really aren't very many college coaches that attend because most players are already committed. That being said there are hundreds of scouts but they are of the pro variety.

My son was in the same boat as yours. He showed up to the PG National as one of the very few uncommitted prospects. He finished top 2 in velo (catcher) and top 5 in pop time at the event.  While his hitting was not great (1 for 4 with 2Ks and a 2b if I remember correctly) I think he played pretty well as he is a defense-first catcher. Not a single college program contacted him after this event.  But he did receive questionnaires from 15 MLB teams via the Draft Prospect Link website.

My son did eventually commit later that summer after attending an event where D3 coaches probably outnumbered D1 coaches 5 to 1 but you know what? Not a single D3 coach contacted him! So perhaps some programs don't bother and set their sights lower? Or perhaps my comment above regarding recruiting is way closer to the truth.

So in closing... have your son prepare for the PG National and show up with a chip on his shoulder. He really has a great opportunity to show what he's got in from of many already-committed players and MLB scouts.

Disclaimer: my son had received one mid-major offer during his junior year but declined (as in said he wasn't ready to commit) as it felt too close to home for him.

@Ster posted:

1) He shouldn't be on a travel team sitting behind two top 50 catchers.

2) What are the two of you doing to reach out to schools that he has a legit shot at being signed?  Are you sending film to realistic colleges and Universities?   

3) Have you had a conversation with his travel coach to see if they are doing anything on his behalf?

4) This is a new era of College baseball recruiting.  There aren't going to be as many high school kids recruited now that the transfer portal is available to coaches.   I know for a fact that this was a factor in my 2024 RHP not getting an offer from a school he had targeted.   They told his travel ball coach that in years past they wouldn't have passed upon my son, but that now they want to hold onto the spot for possible transfer portal players they are considering.   

(1) Yes, this has become a problem. We joined this prominent team two summers ago and have gone to WWBA with them for both of those summers--this being the third. To be honest, he wanted to compete for the starting spot with the other two--but the opportunity never arose. It was also a well known team that was playing in all the "right" tournaments. We were living in Oklahoma and our team wasn't looking to be in "big" tournaments out of state, so we joined a team in Texas that prioritized big tournaments. As it turned out, those other two catchers were and remain excellent (one committed to LSU the other to Vandy) and my son never played behind the plate while with this team. Of course, he catches a ton with his HS team and local travel team, but at the big summer tournaments--he's a DH. I think the constant theme in everyone's response on this thread is that I need to address this issue first with his coach. WWBA 17U comes up in three weeks so we'll talk soon.

(2) We have done the letter writing campaign--but to your point, were they places he had a "legit shot"? That was/remains tougher to tell. My son has been somewhat inconsistent in his play but has had great runs and has good measurements. I'm sure given all the information we've discussed he'd be very easy to find for any of you on the PG/PBR/Fieldlevel/NCSA type circuit. His rankings (which I KNOW have limited meaning and are SUBJECTIVE) have been very good. I only discuss rankings because they at least give one some sense of where your kid might be at. I mentioned I also played at a high level so I'd like to think I can be critical even with my own kid. But as to the rankings--when we were in Oklahoma, he was the top ranked catcher for his class year by PBR and PG. When we moved to Texas, PG put him at #3 for Texas (2024)/PBR never updated. The metrics though are solid, and he works hard constantly in the weight room/track and on the field. His speed has blossomed this last year, where he has gone from being a "slow catcher" to having a recorded sub-7 with PBR (6.98) and 7.02 with PG. For a kid over 200, he seems to have gotten pretty fast. I say this to give you a background as to my thought process for which college would be a "legit shot". With his measurables and performance, I think he is a D1 kid. Negatives: He has some awkwardness to his movements behind the plate and his muscular frame draws some concern regarding long term mobility; His arm is not top of the heap (currently 80mph Catchers velo), not bad, but he strikes me as a mid-major/bottom P5 catcher. I actually think Pepperdine is his best fit. Mid-major, great weather, probably not drawn into the transfer portal/UIL grinder nearly as much as the SEC or even as much as the PAC-12. And I think they are still in the development business in the smaller conferences (as opposed to the "win now or next man up" as in the SEC). We have communicated all of his updated metrics and grades to Pepperdine, Texas Tech, OSU, Texas, and several others. These were all the top of his list but as there has been no response from the big dogs, we started paring it down. Those emails were descriptive and sent schedules and links to videos. Pretty much have limited these emails because he wasn't hearing anything back. 

(3) This is a problem right now. This is partially why I hired the Agent, who has been great. He's a former MLB'er and although we just recently hired him, has seemed to already be helpful. No, I am not made of money. Yes, I have made mistakes on this journey. I do not know if sports agents are the right answer, but for me, it has been good thus far. If anyone wants to know more, please DM.

(4) 100% facts....

My son, also a catcher but 2023, was in similar spot as your son last summer, but with not as good measurables as your son.  He had a mid-major show serious interest beginning of last summer that ended up ghosting him and went with a different 2023 catcher.  The mid-major he ended up committing to saw him play at Jupiter last fall.  The common thread with all the schools that showed interest was they saw him play behind the plate.  His metrics and recommendations from his coaches may have put him on their list to look at.  But it's seeing him play behind the plate that ultimately generated the interest.  The 2 schools that showed the most interest didn't even have him on their list, they just saw him play in one of the games they happen to be watching.

My son also changed travel team after last summer and it was absolutely the best decision he made.  He's been with the same group since 7 yrs old.  That group of boys transitioned as a team to an high-level academy after 12u.  We love the coaching staff and the team.  Unlike your son, my son gets a lot of playing time behind the plate as one of the main catchers.  The coaching staff loves him and tried to get his name to their college contacts.  But for whatever reason, nothing was working out.  We don't understand why also (your title for this thread resonated with me as I've asked this same question lots of time).  It could be that the colleges the coaches have contact with is not a good match for my son.

My son moved to another team his senior year as half of his HS varsity teammates plays on this travel team, and their practices are at his HS field (a lot closer to our house).  We have a good relationship with this coach.  It so happens that his new travel coach has a different set of college coach contacts, and mostly mid major type coaches (while his previous travel team has more contacts with P5 schools).  Even then, the mid major that ended up recruiting my son wasn't even contacted by his travel coach.  He just happened to watch the game in Jupiter when my son was catching.  What did make a big difference is that his travel coach hit it off with the college coach, and they chatted a full hour, not just about my son but about life and faith.  They traded lots of text messages and calls after that.

So to sum it up:

• As a catcher, he needs to play, not just DH.  I can't tell you how many catchers we know that have amazing measurables, but doesn't help their team win with their play behind the plate.
• Maybe find a different travel team to address the playing time issue, and to find another coaching staff with a different set of contacts in the college coaching world (maybe geared more towards mid major, D2, and/or Juco.
• Yes, transfer portal and extra covid year absolutely has an impact.  It's not too late yet. He may get more interested end of summer or fall.

One concern from your post is this: "He has some awkwardness to his movements behind the plate and his muscular frame draws some concern regarding long term mobility".  Maybe get a very realistic assessment of your son's future behind the plate?  If there's legit concern, maybe market him as a first baseman or even OF?  I think he plays these positions based on what I saw in his PG profile.

I hesitated in mentioning this in my post above but figure I might as well throw this in as someone already alluded to this earlier already.  How confident are you that there are no negative perspective or feedback regarding your son from a character or work ethic standpoint?  If the college coaches call his current travel coach, will they say that this kid has amazing character, work ethic, and leadership quality?  Have you checked all of your son's social media and confirm that there's nothing crazy out there?  I personally know of several kids that have great measurable but really bad character, have social media posts that makes most people cringe, and several DUI incidents in their record.  Lastly, how do you behave during the games and showcases?  Make sure you are not acting like a crazy parent or trying to talk to the college coaches scouting the games.

I'm not saying anything of these are happening with your son.  But need to throw these out there, not just for your sake, but for all the other lurkers trying to learn from our experiences.

Oh sure! No problem asking at all. I read the Matheny Manifesto years ago and subscribe to it. I don't make a sound at games/showcases. I was more vocal when he was younger and I didn't know better. I don't always go to his games/showcases. My wife and I split the duties. I cannot possibly go to all his games and keep my job--and I have four other kids as well. I have never talked to scouts. I only have talked to David Esquer when we are at Stanford, he used to be my coach so we talked about the old days and some old players, I didn't bring up my son. I'm not pushy with any of this, I just try and make sure he's present at all the high visibility events and do some of the leg work in the background...like conversing with you wonderful people!

As far as his social media, he is pretty open with all of it. I can see his Instagram and his Twitter (mostly baseball). He has a Snapchat and I must admit, I don't know much about that one. But he's a good kid, no problems at all in or out of school, went to Boys State in Austin two weeks ago, no run-ins with the law, 1260 SAT/3.71. It's not a red flag issue on his end, not unless there is a complete other side to my kid that I am unaware of, and I can't imagine that being the case.

I should mention one other thing, I was a Marine and then a Fed after that, so we have moved a lot--I cannot help but think this did not help much in his journey. He's at his third High School now, but I am in the private sector, so no more moving.   

@atlnon posted:

My son, also a catcher but 2023, was in similar spot as your son last summer, but with not as good measurables as your son.  He had a mid-major show serious interest beginning of last summer that ended up ghosting him and went with a different 2023 catcher.  The mid-major he ended up committing to saw him play at Jupiter last fall.  The common thread with all the schools that showed interest was they saw him play behind the plate.  His metrics and recommendations from his coaches may have put him on their list to look at.  But it's seeing him play behind the plate that ultimately generated the interest.  The 2 schools that showed the most interest didn't even have him on their list, they just saw him play in one of the games they happen to be watching.

My son also changed travel team after last summer and it was absolutely the best decision he made.  He's been with the same group since 7 yrs old.  That group of boys transitioned as a team to an high-level academy after 12u.  We love the coaching staff and the team.  Unlike your son, my son gets a lot of playing time behind the plate as one of the main catchers.  The coaching staff loves him and tried to get his name to their college contacts.  But for whatever reason, nothing was working out.  We don't understand why also (your title for this thread resonated with me as I've asked this same question lots of time).  It could be that the colleges the coaches have contact with is not a good match for my son.

My son moved to another team his senior year as half of his HS varsity teammates plays on this travel team, and their practices are at his HS field (a lot closer to our house).  We have a good relationship with this coach.  It so happens that his new travel coach has a different set of college coach contacts, and mostly mid major type coaches (while his previous travel team has more contacts with P5 schools).  Even then, the mid major that ended up recruiting my son wasn't even contacted by his travel coach.  He just happened to watch the game in Jupiter when my son was catching.  What did make a big difference is that his travel coach hit it off with the college coach, and they chatted a full hour, not just about my son but about life and faith.  They traded lots of text messages and calls after that.

So to sum it up:

• As a catcher, he needs to play, not just DH.  I can't tell you how many catchers we know that have amazing measurables, but doesn't help their team win with their play behind the plate.
• Maybe find a different travel team to address the playing time issue, and to find another coaching staff with a different set of contacts in the college coaching world (maybe geared more towards mid major, D2, and/or Juco.
• Yes, transfer portal and extra covid year absolutely has an impact.  It's not too late yet. He may get more interested end of summer or fall.

One concern from your post is this: "He has some awkwardness to his movements behind the plate and his muscular frame draws some concern regarding long term mobility".  Maybe get a very realistic assessment of your son's future behind the plate?  If there's legit concern, maybe market him as a first baseman or even OF?  I think he plays these positions based on what I saw in his PG profile.

Money advice, thank you. As to the last paragraph, that is my best impression of giving a negative assessment of my son. It is true though, I see some movements in his catching that still give me pause but could be developed...time is short. Otherwise, he can play OF. His running has improved to where that is now realistic at a higher level. I hate to throw it in on catching though, he has done a lot of training to get to where he is currently.

Giff;

Why not apply to UC Berkley.

Great school. Our local player Andrew Vaughan played at UC now with the Chicago White Sox.

We have conducted "clinics" at UC. There is new Coach at St Marys in Moraga.

Bob

As I mentioned earlier, while I believe there is still reason to be optimistic there are a few things that need to be addressed. He needs to have a conversation with his travel coach. Now. Not at WWBA, not next week, not this fall. He needs to send his coach a text tonight and set up a call. He needs to ask two questions

a. What level of college baseball they see him fitting in at.

b. His role on the team

Your son needs to go into that conversation with an open mind, ready to be offended and knocked down a peg. Your son also needs to be ready to push back if they don't give clear, concise, straight to the point answers. And he needs to be prepared to leave if it doesn't go his way, or prepared to step up if they are willing to give him a more consistent role.

What should have happened already is your son made a list, they crossed schools off and you worked with what was left and the feedback from the remaining schools is how you proceed. If that hasn't happened it needs to. Your son needs to say I'm interested in A/B/C, can you reach out to them for me.

If they give answers like "we'll see", "the portal", or any other excuses, they are useless to him. You are a paying customer. Hotels, airfare, time off work. They need to work for you. If they are not capable of reaching out to schools on his behalf or able to provide honest feedback what are you paying for? You come to a consensus that these are the schools you should be looking into, get feedback from said schools, and then either proceed or pivot based on the feedback.

Then you ask about his role on the team. If there is no future with him behind the plate, that's fine but you need to find a new team. If they can work something out where they all rotate then go ahead, but he needs to catch and he needs to catch in front of schools that he can play at and are interested in him.

Mine played for high profile teams with multiple kids drafted, P5s, etc. Each catcher was responsible for like 5-6 pitchers. The catching schedule was released with the pitching schedule. 3 P5 catchers all split time mostly evenly, no complaints, two drafted out of HS.

I remember when we joined the one we sat down with the coach and he told us exactly what the plan was. He said if things weren't playing out the way we them wanted to and he didn't speak up then he didn't think he'd survive with a college coach.

Us parents aren’t always the most objective lot, but you sound informed, realistic, and grounded. Based on your son’s metrics and opportunities I have no doubt this will end well, it’s just the stress of parent who wants the put his kid in the best situation for success. Not to mention the added pressure of some of his peers closing on this portion of the journey.

There's something @ABSORBER says above that resonates for me, "I mean your son". I get from your tone, that you're a get things done type (me too, I get paid to make things happen), but I would recommend making sure you understand what he really wants and why - without the possibility of him parroting what he knows you want. Some kids struggle with this, but IMO it's critical they own the choices to avoid possible future regrets.

I also like the comment "show up with a chip on his shoulder". My son wasn't recruited in HS, he used that as fuel in  Juco. He was told he'd he'd never be a starter at Arkansas by Boston's head of scouting, and he became their Friday night starter. Of all the kids on his HS showcase team, I don't think any would have picked him to pitch in a MLB playoff game - yet he has. Being overlooked can be a powerful motivator - lemons and lemonade is no joke...

Enjoy the journey, you're in the sweet spot for parents - you just don't know it yet. The parental stressing part never goes away, at least it hasn't for me.

Good luck to your son, this season and the many to come!

@Consultant posted:

Giff;

Why not apply to UC Berkley.

Great school. Our local player Andrew Vaughan played at UC now with the Chicago White Sox.

We have conducted "clinics" at UC. There is new Coach at St Marys in Moraga.

Bob

Actually where I played college ball! Go Bears! I’m very familiar with Andy Vaughn, absolute stud. I played back in the day with Xavier Nady and Mike Tonis. We could hit, but there was no one to stop the bleeding when it went bad defensively. I think the HC is Mike Neu now, I broke up a no-no he was pitching in the California JC championship back in 97 before I ended up at Cal. I was playing for LA Harbor at the time, HC was the great Tony Bloomfield!

Giff;

Nady, Tonis, Neu all played in our Goodwill Series Int'l. and Area Code Games in Long Beach. Murphy Sua also coached at Harbor. The California J.C.'s are separate from National J.C. Great coaching and players.

Bob

Did you know about the other 2 catchers when your son joined this team?  There's really no need to have 3 catchers at that age.  2 should be able to handle it.  Not to be mean, but it sounds to me like if they took on your son knowing they had the two other kids already on the team that they were using him for his $$$.  Fortunately for us, my son never played on teams that did that....but there are plenty of them out there.  Hopefully things work out for your son.  Good luck!

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did you know about the other 2 catchers when your son joined this team?  There's really no need to have 3 catchers at that age.  2 should be able to handle it.  Not to be mean, but it sounds to me like if they took on your son knowing they had the two other kids already on the team that they were using him for his $$$.  Fortunately for us, my son never played on teams that did that....but there are plenty of them out there.  Hopefully things work out for your son.  Good luck!

My son's travel team typically have 3 catchers.  But all 3 catchers can also play other positions.  I see the value of this during the days where there are 3 bracket games.

@atlnon posted:

My son's travel team typically have 3 catchers.  But all 3 catchers can also play other positions.  I see the value of this during the days where there are 3 bracket games.

We had the same situation up until about 14u.....but once you're at 16u or 17u having 3 top level catchers is overkill....there aren't enough innings to go around...especially if there are coaches wanting to see a particular kid

@Giff, I believe these are the factors that have created your current situation: 1) being in small town Oklahoma up till now; 2) relocating your family right before your son’s senior year; 3) lack of playing time on your travel team; and 4) the awkward movements behind the plate that you mentioned. There is nothing you can do about items 1 & 2. That is life happening. But you can do something about 3 & 4. Item 3 has been well discussed. But item 4 hasn’t and I’m here to tell you that issue matters a lot. More than it should. D1 schools rarely (I mean hardly ever) recruit players that have any unnatural, awkward, or unnecessary movements in the way they play the game. Even if the results are there, if a player looks unconventional getting it done, that will scare most recruiters away. There are things that can be done to help the situation but it does take some time. Good players that have an issue like this often have to prove themselves over a longer period of time before receiving an offer(s). IMO your son falls into this category and he hasn’t been in the right place, for long enough, to prove himself enough to convince the schools you want to offer. As a result that’s probably going to result in JuCo being your best option. The good thing about JuCo is you can do as many private workouts/tryouts as you want. That’s my 2 cents.

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

@Giff posted:

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

I think that you made a wise decision.  It will be important for your son to reach out to the schools that he has traction with and let them know exactly which games he will be featured for this new team.   Communication is key at this point.

One other thing that I think you need to consider.   I believe that you and your son really need to find out which school he can realistically target.  If Texas (just using that name as an example) has already made up their mind about their 2024 class then there is no point in wasting your time trying to persuade them to consider your son.   I think that at this point in time, it is an acceptable question to ask assistant coaches about where they stand with their 2024 class.   Some teams are going to be finished with that class.  Others however, may be losing guys in the draft (both on the roster and in recruits), losing players in the transfer portal, may be uncertain about who they are transferring in etc... 

Also, we are getting to a point now where D1 coaches aren't hesitating to drop players that have been committed to them for a while.  I know of several 2024 guys who's parents have told me that they are somewhat seeing the writing on the wall about their son's commitment to "X" school.   There are some players on some Power 5 commitment list today that very well may not be there in August.   The era of gentlemen obligation with coaching staffs is over.   There are plenty of kids that have been committed since they were 15 years of age, that are hearing, "just haven't developed like we had hoped."   

@Giff posted:

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

If by Texas you mean Texas Hold 'em and by full boat you mean something like Aces over 8's then maybe, otherwise the entire sentence might be a bit unlikely.....

@Giff posted:

Update: I was able to get him onto a different team that will be at WWBA. That took some time and some delicacy with current coach, but he understood. The coach that’s getting him seems very nice, and I am grateful. They have catchers so he’ll still split time—but it’s a long week at WWBA so that’s no problem. And he ensured we will get the games started in advance so I can let the colleges know. Appreciate all the advice here.

As to JuCo route vs D1? I feel like that is a decision that might be made on its own. If Texas walks up to Jon at WWBA or PG National and Steve Rodriguez says he wants my son to start at catcher for the next 4 years with a full boat, then the answer changes quickly. While that scenario is unlikely, he does seem to be headed towards some kind of offer so we’ll have to weigh that unmaterialized possibility up against the JuCo route.

I just want to thank you all for assisting in getting this travel ball situation squared away before I missed out on making that change. It was an important change and I don’t think i burned any bridges either—which makes me happy. I’m grateful. We’ll see where it goes.

I think he'll probably get more than a few offers this summer. Especially if he has decent National Showcase metrics. He's already got a 9.5 rating (which by itself may not mean much--and I'm just echoing what others say even though I don't agree) but combine that with a 9.5 (or maybe 10 after PG National) then that is something. It will definitely get him looks so good on you for getting him playing time in his primary position at the WWBA!

Your son is not alone. His goal at the PG National shout be to outwork everyone else, especially the other uncommitted catchers who are attending (there will be grade 9 and below plus ungraded attendees as well). Here are all the 2024 catchers graded 9.5 or higher:

All but two of the committed players are P5 (UCONN and HPU). Most are attending the PG National -- all were invited (probably all 9.5+ get invited). Note there is at least one grade 10 who is uncommitted. I'm sure he's had offers...

I felt strongly your son would get some offers sometime this summer and after compiling this list I am even more convinced.

Update #2 (PG National and WWBA 17U Nat'l Championship):

It has been a whirlwind since last I posted. Unfortunately no great news but definitely some interesting experiences to share with my fellow parents/friends so here goes:

PG National was ok. The event itself was well organized and really neat to be at Chase Field but my son's performance in the gameplay was rough offensively. I'll start by saying that his metrics were his best ever--pretty much across the board: 6.95 in the 60-yard dash with a 1.68 10-yard split. 1.94 POP with all accurate throws, last one from his knees was right on the money. 106 Exit Velo which is the very top of the 2024 class (he's tied with two others). His BP was not good by his standard--They only got one round of about 10 and he hit a few hard, but 3 or 4 foul balls kind of soured the round. The follow-on games saw him overmatched. There was a kid who was 6-7 or 8 from TN throwing in the mid-90's and most of the boys there had never seen anything like that (I think he hit 97 at one point and had good command). There were definitely some studs there but regardless, he didn't do much to garner attention. 0-4 or 5 with a couple of groundouts and a couple of flyouts--he hit one hard on the ground to 2B, 97 EV, and ate up the second basemen, then stole second. His catching was good, hosed one kid, one kid stole. There were only two games at the end.

In the aftermath the Twins, Guardians and Brewers scouts' reached out and asked for his schedule and the Twins had him fill out a questionnaire. We also received a message from U of Cincinnati, U of Alabama, AFA (again), Naval Academy (again), and Pepperdine. Alabama was out of nowhere, asked for the WWBA schedule and haven't heard anything else.

At WWBA, as I told you last week, we got him onto a new team and things started out very promising. He went 1-3 in the opening game with a solid oppo double at an important moment. The next day 1-3 again with another double, this time AFA was there and reached out after the game and told our advisor that they were out on my son. They liked him but didn't love him. Turns out they were only there for the first two at-bats, a K and a ground out. I told my son this game is, if nothing else, defined by "timing"-- whether that's to time the hitting of a certain pitch, hitting with runners on, or hitting when a college coach is present, it's always a matter of timing. Hell, life is about timing--but I digress.

After the third game, where he had another well hit double, things fell off. He just went cold again offensively. I can't explain it. I think the pressure is sitting on his chest right now, I wish I could help calm him down, he acts fine but I can't help but think he's got to be feeling all this--4 years from now I'll get him a beer : ) On the other hand, I thought his glove work this week was very good--we'll see. Now, the waiting game.

Oh, lastly, I should say that he did get an offer from US Merchant Marine Academy which is a DIII. My son was at the AFA camp and the Coach said he saw him there--their HC is fantastic, I wish I could have recorded that Zoom call. Baseball, America, fishing, the military, and an infectious passion for life. My kind of guy. My son is also talking to U of Chicago who was at the Stanford Camp. Both Chicago and USMMA started the Zoom call by saying, "we know you're probably talking to a ton of D1's but we want you to consider..." We didn't have the heart to tell them that we aren't talking to any. I found it odd that they assumed we were given my concerns I've laid out to y'all but apparently these DIII coaches saw something in him.

I do want to say that I believe my son is ranked too high by PG and this can create problems, certainly when it comes to expectations. I mean this as someone who loves my son very much and respects his game. However, I feel like many of these new organizations have found a way to place an overemphasis on metrics, and make that lucrative. For someone like me, who even played baseball at a high level, I think I fell for it--and why wouldn't I? It was some other baseball persons evaluation and it had statistical merit. Even those on this board who were throwing shade at me, have only done so because they assume I am inflating my sons metrics--some of you have looked him up and can see I am obviously not. Come meet my kid if you'd like, he's really nice. Hi metrics reflect a MLB quality--his game play, in my opinion, reflects someone who may one day play D1 but would benefit greatly from JuCo. His timing at the plate, or perhaps something mental, make his level of play lower than where his metrics suggest he should be. That has become clear as Area Codes scouts, NTIS evaluators, college coaches and higher level evaluators have consistently passed on my son. It just sucks to be on this end though-- I am telling you, he is a grinder. That kid lives to improve his mind/body/spirit...unfortunately that doesn't always translate into base hits.   

My son loves the Naval Academy at this point. He did a week at their Summer Seminar (unrelated to baseball) and fell in love with the culture and campus. My prayer is that Coach Ristano (just came to Navy from ND and then Florida State) saw enough good at WWBA to give him a call.

Thanks for going on this journey with me...

@ABSORBER posted:

Your son is not alone. His goal at the PG National shout be to outwork everyone else, especially the other uncommitted catchers who are attending (there will be grade 9 and below plus ungraded attendees as well). Here are all the 2024 catchers graded 9.5 or higher:

All but two of the committed players are P5 (UCONN and HPU). Most are attending the PG National -- all were invited (probably all 9.5+ get invited). Note there is at least one grade 10 who is uncommitted. I'm sure he's had offers...

I felt strongly your son would get some offers sometime this summer and after compiling this list I am even more convinced.

This is a most well informed and thought out reply, I appreciate it. I hope to see him get married up with a good school soon!

@Giff, that is a very honest post that indicates a healthy perspective on your son’s situation. I have some comments that may or may not be helpful. But I’m going to make them in hopes that they are. Here goes. I agree with you that your son is ranked too high by the scouting services. Their evaluations are mostly done by non-baseball people that pretend to be knowledgeable. They aren’t capable of evaluating mechanics and movements so they lean heavily on metrics and their rankings reflect that. Much of the public is misled by their narrative and even a lot of people on this board believe (or did at one time) that reaching certain metric milestones is certain to get you recruited. Your son is living proof that it’s not true. I have seen video of your son and so have some coaches that I trust. I believe that your son has a lot of potential but he just hasn’t realized it yet. Because of that I would advise against the service academies. Even Merchant Marines. You don’t go to service academies to play sports. You go there to serve your country. I expect big gains from your son during his freshman year in college. If that were to happen at a service academy I don’t know that he would be able to leave and take advantage of it. I think the JuCo route makes the most sense. But not at Amarillo College. Best of luck!

@Giff, I'm going to agree and disagree with @adbono. Yes, you do choose a service academy because you have a desire to serve your country. What a great way to serve AND play D1 baseball! The same can be said of players who choose an Ivy school (or any other high academic school). You make this choice because you want the very best education (and take that with a grain of salt--you attend for the connections) and an opportunity to play the sport you love (and serve your country in the case of a service academy--not to mention college paid for by Uncle Sam). You use baseball to get what you want. There is nothing wrong with this. Take the draft that just completed. Almost all of these players will be out of baseball in the next 2-8 years. Then where will they be? Their choice was to play baseball and have an opportunity to play at the highest level. It wasn't to get the best education or serve their country. There is nothing wrong with this either; they freely made that choice.

Sure, perhaps your son is ranked too highly... But give some credit to PG, they've been doing this for while. Everyone pays the same fee to get a grade so there's no incentive to rank or grade a player too highly. Why pay more showcase $$ if you already got a 10 grade and a top 100 ranking?

And your son's 9.5 grade? Given by "non-baseball people that pretend to be knowledgeable?" I guess we would have to say the same for the MLB scouts that reached out to your son. What do they know?

Your son's grade seems to be correct. PG has been doing this for a long time. Just go back and look at prior years rankings and see how many of the top 100 were drafted. Most of them... Metrics don't lie. You can't teach metrics. Many parents on this site get worked up because their son hits or pitches like nobody else but because they don't have the necessary metrics (arm strength, exit velocity, speed, size, etc.) they get overlooked. Because these are the things that scouts notice. They may not be able to help a college coach win the championship but those coaches will sure roll the dice to see if it works out! MLB is no different!

Just tell you son to keep grinding; he'll get there. Tell him to go where he wants to go and use baseball to get there.

But.... Also have him work on arm strength. As I said, metrics don't lie--this is what he lacks. His pop time will increase along with an increase in velocity.

@ABSORBER posted:

But.... Also have him work on arm strength. As I said, metrics don't lie--this is what he lacks. His pop time will increase along with an increase in velocity.

Great take, appreciate all. This is 100% what my son and I have been talking about during these road trips-- arm strength. His arm is far better than most HS catchers so sometimes he forgets what its like competing with the big dogs. Catchers velocities at PG National were in the low to mid 80's, my son was 75 but has thrown a 79 in different conditions. Nevertheless, I can see very clearly through his metrics that there was ZERO improvement in arm strength between last summer and this summer--and that has to change. We talked about Tom House and some of the J-Band programs. We have been pretty good about long toss (I cant throw it nearly as far as him so he's playing long toss, and I'm playing 'please let this ball roll 100 yards'"). I wish I could afford that Texas Baseball Ranch or something more high level like one of those throwing labs at Wake Forest, but money is always a limitation.

My son is a pitcher and he did the Texas Baseball Ranch program and driveline. While these were beneficial in their own way, I would say the main thing that helped him gain velo was the weight room .

@Giff posted:

Update #2 (PG National and WWBA 17U Nat'l Championship):

The follow-on games saw him overmatched. There was a kid who was 6-7 or 8 from TN throwing in the mid-90's and most of the boys there had never seen anything like that (I think he hit 97 at one point and had good command). There were definitely some studs there but regardless, he didn't do much to garner attention.

In the aftermath the Twins, Guardians and Brewers scouts' reached out and asked for his schedule and the Twins had him fill out a questionnaire. We also received a message from U of Cincinnati, U of Alabama, AFA (again), Naval Academy (again), and Pepperdine. Alabama was out of nowhere, asked for the WWBA schedule and haven't heard anything else.

My son is also talking to U of Chicago who was at the Stanford Camp. Both Chicago and USMMA started the Zoom call by saying, "we know you're probably talking to a ton of D1's but we want you to consider..." We didn't have the heart to tell them that we aren't talking to any. I found it odd that they assumed we were given my concerns I've laid out to y'all but apparently these DIII coaches saw something in him.

Thanks for the update, a few things to add on

1. If he's feeling overmatched - it's not nothing. There is a difference between going to these events and having good ABs barreling balls up without results and having ABs where you feel like a hit was an accident more than it was a result of him being all over the pitcher. Some of the schools you mentioned, Alabama, Pepp, Cincy. That is big boy baseball, every pitcher they see is going to be low to high 90s and they're going to have 3-4 more years of experience than what he's facing now. To play D1 baseball at a high level at least - you need to hit high 80s low 90s pitching all the time. That is why all these coaches go down there for a week - they need to see these bats against quality pitching. People can say what they want about the quality of the WWBA, it's hard to get consistent good pitching locally, and going down there for a week is better than seeing 78 at some local tournament. Now this doesn't mean that your son won't get there eventually, but does he want to go play in the Big 12 or the SEC and find out he needed another year or two to get there?

2. Alabama has a new HC and I would imagine quite a few decommits and anticipation of more transferring out within the next 12 months.

3. This is not meant to discourage but more to put it into perspective. If you have 7 mid major and 1 P5 offer which level do you think is more appropriate for his playing abilities? If 8 D3s are constantly calling/coming to see him and 2 D1s rarely reach out/don't answer every text/email or in a timely manner which set of schools do you think would be better suited for him? The point is the offers speak for themselves.

One of mine had a bunch of P5 offers for 50% or less and a few mid majors offering close to 100%. The offers tell me he's fishing in the right pond. The other had about 10 mid majors close to 100% and one or 2 P5s who kept him on the back burner until they made 25 and 30% offers? Which level  would he be better suited for?

Giff:

My concern is to learn what adjustments did your son make in the "batters box" before and during his at bat with the 6'7" pitcher.

What size bat did he use? Did he "choke" the bat? Did he stand deeper in the batter's box? Did he stand "on or off" the plate?

What mental adjustments? Every situation is a learning opportunity.

Bob

Update #3 and last on this thread.

I missed out on the final consolation game which turned out to be very important. Son went 3-3 yesterday with a bomb, double and single. Pepperdine and Coastal Carolina were both present and talked to my son before the game. They were both there for the 3 run HR after which Pepperdine left.

My advisor later talked to Pepp and they are making an offer that we will hear, I think, tomorrow. This is huge news.

His stat line for the week after yesterday improved dramatically. .353 with a 1.118 OPS, 4 2B, a HR— and all around solid play behind the plate.

i think the ball is rolling now. It is definitely a “mid-major” ball. Like PA Baseball mentioned, and I completely agree, I’m trying to read where the offers are coming from in large part to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out, and I am a firm believer in the potential surrounding the JuCo route… I did it myself LA Harbor JuCo to Cal.

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

@Giff posted:

to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out.

So I'm going to raise one point that I haven't seen addressed — your note above says "to help me make an assessment" and "we have only D3 offer". It's not you, it's not we. It's your son.

What does he want to do? Where does he want to go? You also mention what people said on Zoom calls. My son had tons of those calls, we didn't participate. He had to see how he felt about the coaches and the program and build his own relationship.

When he got a P5 offer, we talked to the coach to understand the offer, and that was it. I talked to a couple of his local coaches just asking if he had a legit shot at playing, but in the end it didn't matter. I told him I wanted to talk about it, he came home that night and said, I told them I'm coming, what did you want to talk about?

It was his decision. It needs to be your sons. it's cool and exciting to get the big dogs lining up, but your job needs to be helping your son keep it all in perspective and make the right choice for him, not getting carried away in the hoopla.

That may not be what's happening, just seemed like something to watch out for.

Enjoy the ride and have great fun along the way.

@Iowamom23 posted:

So I'm going to raise one point that I haven't seen addressed — your note above says "to help me make an assessment" and "we have only D3 offer". It's not you, it's not we. It's your son.

What does he want to do? Where does he want to go? You also mention what people said on Zoom calls. My son had tons of those calls, we didn't participate. He had to see how he felt about the coaches and the program and build his own relationship.

When he got a P5 offer, we talked to the coach to understand the offer, and that was it. I talked to a couple of his local coaches just asking if he had a legit shot at playing, but in the end it didn't matter. I told him I wanted to talk about it, he came home that night and said, I told them I'm coming, what did you want to talk about?

It was his decision. It needs to be your sons. it's cool and exciting to get the big dogs lining up, but your job needs to be helping your son keep it all in perspective and make the right choice for him, not getting carried away in the hoopla.

That may not be what's happening, just seemed like something to watch out for.

Enjoy the ride and have great fun along the way.

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

@ABSORBER posted:

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

I agree. We talked to him about finances, grades, majors, etc. We went on college visits. I did research on the various institutions and we talked about whether they were a good fit. We had conversations with him about his conversations but did not participate with weekly calls with coaches. Literally talked to the head coach once — when he made his offer. When it came down to it, it was his decision. JMO

@ABSORBER posted:

Ha-ha, I have to disagree! Unless he's getting a full-ride (not likely), parents (who will be paying) need to participate in the decision!

Every kid, the relationship with their parents and financial situation is different. I believe that from 13 to 18 us parents transition from a position of power to one of influence, and that how you manage that transition (gradual or like a switch) can impact your longterm relationship. My youngest was fiercely independent, while his older brother was way more collaborative - the going to college process was very different for them.

Thankfully, assuming no abuse we get to mess our kids up they way we choose - I always felt I was in competition with the wife in who would be the biggest topic of their future therapy sessions. Not sure who won...

I do agree with @ABSORBER, if the parents have a significant financial stake then they should be part of the discussion.

@Giff posted:

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

Congrats on a bit of stress reduction and some great opportunities for your son! But don't get too comfortable, the stress fest continues - at least it did for me... lol!

@Giff posted:

Update #3 and last on this thread.

I missed out on the final consolation game which turned out to be very important. Son went 3-3 yesterday with a bomb, double and single. Pepperdine and Coastal Carolina were both present and talked to my son before the game. They were both there for the 3 run HR after which Pepperdine left.

My advisor later talked to Pepp and they are making an offer that we will hear, I think, tomorrow. This is huge news.

His stat line for the week after yesterday improved dramatically. .353 with a 1.118 OPS, 4 2B, a HR— and all around solid play behind the plate.

i think the ball is rolling now. It is definitely a “mid-major” ball. Like PA Baseball mentioned, and I completely agree, I’m trying to read where the offers are coming from in large part to help me make an assessment. He has gotten the P5 attention (Alabama, Cincy, even Texas Tech here locally showed interest for a while). I think the lions share of his interest, and the offers I think are going to come, will be mid-major. Right now we only have one D3 offer that I would say is in stone. I am not including JuCo for this discussion but they have been reaching out, and I am a firm believer in the potential surrounding the JuCo route… I did it myself LA Harbor JuCo to Cal.

Damndest thing though. I was born and raised in SoCal, moved to Texas to raise my family and escape the oppressive housing market (and other reasons), and now, with no specific plan to do so, it looks like I’ll now have two kids in college back in SoCal. I’ll post a separate thread when he commits, which may be soon. As always, appreciate the thoughts and advice!

My daughter and I were visiting the softball coach at Boston College in January. It was cold and windy as we walked across the parking lot. My daughter turned to me and said, “Dad, what were you thinking when you moved us from Southern California? Does anything here look like UCSB?”

We lived halfway between LA and Santa Barbara. She played in Florida.

wait until you see what 50% of pepperdine is.................

I read through this young man's PG profile.  They graded him as 6.5 and 7.5 x 2  just a few years ago when he was 5ft10-6ft/180lbs.  I have no doubt that he's worked very hard to get to where he is now.  His dad was a former high level college player so I'm sure he had good instruction as a youth when these grades were given.  Now all of a sudden PG has an epiphany that he is a 9.5?  If they are so good as a scouting service, shouldn't they have been able to tell when he was a freshman how good he would become?

I know a 16 yo kid who did a PG showcase as a 14u.  They graded him a 6.5.  He now runs a 6.5  60  and is a heck of a player.   Come on... 6.5.  I could even tell back then that was preposterous.   He was a minimum 8. 

I almost think they do this on purpose to make you feel you have to come back and do it again. errr...  I'm sorry.... pay it again. 

@Dadbelly2023, you are correct in your observations and your criticism. PG does not employ real scouts. They pay HS kids minimum wage to watch games, take video, and record basic data. The HS kid sends that info to an older kid that creates a catchy write up and blasts it out on social media. Showcases are done the same way. Rankings are based on word of mouth, metrics, and (to some degree) an assessment of performance at PG events. And they have brainwashed the public into believing that their opinions are really important. It is all a money grab. IMO 80% of players don’t benefit one bit from attending PG events.

I kind of like the PG events.  Didn't see any highschool kids running it.  Saw some college kids that currently play, but they looked to be more of technicians.  Saw some other coaches there as well.  Obviously no one needs to go to those, but I don't think it hurts either.  Especially if you don't have someone that knows someone.....

A kid I coached from 13u to 15yo in 16u was graded a 10 by PG. He committed to an annually high ranked P5 program. His highly regarded coach referred to him as potentially the best recruit he’s ever snagged.

What the father did was spent every dollar possible to train the kid for showcases. At fifteen he looked physically like Josh Hamilton.

But from coaching the kid for three years I knew he didn’t have the mental makeup. This kid led our team in me telling him to shake it off and focus.

In 17u my son and this kid also played on the same team. My son became good friends with a teammate that played high school ball with the kid. The friend told my son the “stud” accumulated all his stats against cupcakes and didn’t hit in the big games. But this stud had been trained to death to excel in showcases. I thought the major PG tournaments would expose the kid. I never understood how they didn’t. The kid was handed a spot on the regional Area Code team. It’s the one thing that ticked my son off since he didn’t make the team (still great exposure just to tryout).

When this class of 17u players headed for college I told a friend (son was also on the 17u team) the “stud” will play his way out of the lineup by conference play every year. For three years the kid was handed a starting position and on the bench by conference play.

Then, after junior year and I don’t understand why, after the draft he was offered a free agent contract for short season with a MLB organization. The kid had the look. But this was when I started wondering who his father knew. He didn’t get past Low A in three seasons.

@Dadof3 posted:

I kind of like the PG events.  Didn't see any highschool kids running it.  Saw some college kids that currently play, but they looked to be more of technicians.  Saw some other coaches there as well.  Obviously no one needs to go to those, but I don't think it hurts either.  Especially if you don't have someone that knows someone.....

This is where my philosophy of the best recruiting method is have a travel coach who has credibility and contacts and can presell the player. Once past the top one hundred players at a major PG event the next 900 can blend in. On any given day you can’t tell 200 from 1000 in three or four at bats.

My son never did a PG showcase. But from attending PG tournaments and his travel coach selling him he had a 9.5 score. I felt it was high. But hundreds of players receive 9.5. Keep in mind PG scores is how they see potential not reality.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

I read through this young man's PG profile.  They graded him as 6.5 and 7.5 x 2  just a few years ago when he was 5ft10-6ft/180lbs.  I have no doubt that he's worked very hard to get to where he is now.  His dad was a former high level college player so I'm sure he had good instruction as a youth when these grades were given.  Now all of a sudden PG has an epiphany that he is a 9.5?  If they are so good as a scouting service, shouldn't they have been able to tell when he was a freshman how good he would become?

I know a 16 yo kid who did a PG showcase as a 14u.  They graded him a 6.5.  He now runs a 6.5  60  and is a heck of a player.   Come on... 6.5.  I could even tell back then that was preposterous.   He was a minimum 8.

I almost think they do this on purpose to make you feel you have to come back and do it again. errr...  I'm sorry.... pay it again.

Seriously? Perhaps you should spend some time analyzing data. It's all there for you. Take a look at the metrics of 14 yo players and compare them to metrics collected at the PG National. Do you see a difference? Grades aren't given based on what the eyes see--they are based purely on data points. Big differences in the body and abilities of a 14 yo and a player entering adulthood.

What was the 60 time for that 16 yo kid who did a PG Showcase as a 14 yo?

When you collect data points for 20+ years it's really easy to assign grades.

When you attend a PG Showcase at age 14 you cannot expect to receive high grades unless your metrics match those of older players. As others have pointed out repeatedly, it's pretty easy to get you own pocket radar and stopwatch and get those metrics on your own. You would then have an idea of what grade you'll end up with if you still want to attend.

But for those that have the means and the desire, there are many intangibles to be gained by attending--learning how to deal with pressure, feeling comfortable with showcase formats, seeing your peers and understanding where your current skillset fits and what you need to improve, etc..

Believe it or not, the remainder of that 14 yo's baseball career is one big showcase; it never stops.

Or the PG grades are completely meaningless and irrelevant. The sole purpose of those grades is to get people to come back (pay) to improve them.

There is zero value in their grading system. It is entirely useless.

@RJM posted:

This is where my philosophy of the best recruiting method is have a travel coach who has credibility and contacts and can presell the player. Once past the top one hundred players at a major PG event the next 900 can blend in. On any given day you can’t tell 200 from 1000 in three or four at bats.

My son never did a PG showcase. But from attending PG tournaments and his travel coach selling him he had a 9.5 score. I felt it was high. But hundreds of players receive 9.5. Keep in mind PG scores is how they see potential not reality.

Not sure how is was 10 years ago but you don't get assigned a grade without having at least one metric. Unless you are a pitcher who gets gunned at a PG tourney, you will not have a grade without having attended a showcase.

Of course you can be ranked, but you will not have a grade.

And there are not hundreds who get graded 9.5.

As an example, there are currently 152 players in the 2024 class graded 9.5 and above:

RHP - 30

LHP - 11

C - 22

1B - 4

3B -15

MI - 39

OF -31

@PABaseball posted:

Or the PG grades are completely meaningless and irrelevant. The sole purpose of those grades is to get people to come back (pay) to improve them.

There is zero value in their grading system. It is entirely useless.

Crazy talk on this board! I guess those MLB grades are useless as well? They are based on "tools" and those "tools" are based on data points.

PG's grades are based on data they collect.

Rankings are not the same as grades. Neither are rankings leading up to the MLB Draft. And every baseball media outlet has their own ranking.

But of course metrics aren't what make great players. We all know that already. But if you don't have the metrics (tools) it doesn't really matter what a "great" player you may be...

When I coached Little League I drafted players, not tools. And it worked pretty well. That's because my draft pool was pretty small (local community) and the players were age 12 or younger. If my draft pool consisted of the entire country I would have been able to draft "players" who also possessed "tools".

@PABaseball posted:

Or the PG grades are completely meaningless and irrelevant. The sole purpose of those grades is to get people to come back (pay) to improve them.

There is zero value in their grading system. It is entirely useless.

100% correct.

The PG grade definitely matters...to the players and sometimes the parents, especially the crazy baseball obsessed ones. I would overhear the kids in the backseat during my uber baseball dad days and it was a hoot hearing who deserved it or why they didn't based on their past tourney performance and comps to other players with said PG grades, much more engaging than the BB HOF discussions I had growing up. I can admit now since the it is past the statues of limitations, there was a time during the lull in the drinking with the parents at the tourney hotel I would bring it up to stir the pot and get the party going again. 

@absorber: "Seriously? Perhaps you should spend some time analyzing data. It's all there for you. Take a look at the metrics of 14 yo players and compare them to metrics collected at the PG National. Do you see a difference? Grades aren't given based on what the eyes see--they are based purely on data points."

Respectfully... and you know what I really mean because of how you started off your spiel...  It says right on their website that the grade is a projection of where they see the kid in the future.  And that write up of the player's performance seems an awful lot like it is based on what the PG scout's "eyes see".   

2022NYC.  "I can admit now since the it is past the statues of limitations, there was a time during the lull in the drinking with the parents at the tourney hotel I would bring it up to stir the pot and get the party going again".

Now that is funny.  Just a wee bit pathological perhaps... naw.  sheer awesome

@ABSORBER posted:

Crazy talk on this board! I guess those MLB grades are useless as well? They are based on "tools" and those "tools" are based on data points.

PG's grades are based on data they collect.

Rankings are not the same as grades. Neither are rankings leading up to the MLB Draft. And every baseball media outlet has their own ranking.

But of course metrics aren't what make great players. We all know that already. But if you don't have the metrics (tools) it doesn't really matter what a "great" player you may be...

When I coached Little League I drafted players, not tools. And it worked pretty well. That's because my draft pool was pretty small (local community) and the players were age 12 or younger. If my draft pool consisted of the entire country I would have been able to draft "players" who also possessed "tools".

I was hoping this was some sort of sarcastic troll post but it does not appear that way.

If you think the guys at PG are on the same playing field as MLB scouts you are sorely mistaken. But you also compared your local little draft to the MLB draft so I don't know how much I can help to begin with.

@PABaseball posted:

I was hoping this was some sort of sarcastic troll post but it does not appear that way.

If you think the guys at PG are on the same playing field as MLB scouts you are sorely mistaken. But you also compared your local little draft to the MLB draft so I don't know how much I can help to begin with.

Posting to web forums is really a waster of time and I can only blame myself.

Lotta PG bashers here which is why PG himself quit wasting his time on this forum. Even though he was really helpful and would bend-over backwards to help a parent out.

I guess we can disagree on whether PG data collection and grading over the last 20+ years is any good. I'll just compare the PG grades (and ranking for top 250) to the last few MLB drafts and see where they differ. On the surface they seem pretty close to me (for prep players).

I was obsessed too.  In the end I realized that the top ranked 200 players or so are ranked carefully, for the draft (those players have grades of 9.5-10). PGstaff himself, when he still posted here, admitted that.

Everyone else's rank seems to be determined by an algorithm based on the data they have on the player - FB, performance at tournaments, where committed, etc, and is completely meaningless.

@ABSORBER posted:

But for those that have the means and the desire, there are many intangibles to be gained by attending--learning how to deal with pressure, feeling comfortable with showcase formats, seeing your peers and understanding where your current skillset fits and what you need to improve, etc..

I agree with much of what Absorber is saying.  But not this; paying $800 to learn how to deal with the showcase format is not justified.  There are many other places you can do that for much less money.

@2022NYC posted:

The PG grade definitely matters...to the players and sometimes the parents, especially the crazy baseball obsessed ones. I would overhear the kids in the backseat during my uber baseball dad days and it was a hoot hearing who deserved it or why they didn't based on their past tourney performance and comps to other players with said PG grades, much more engaging than the BB HOF discussions I had growing up. I can admit now since the it is past the statues of limitations, there was a time during the lull in the drinking with the parents at the tourney hotel I would bring it up to stir the pot and get the party going again.

As a baseball dad, you should have let the kids know grades aren't based on tourney performance. And then asked the kids how their metrics compared to the "graded" player in question.

Both players and parents are just as ill-informed.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

@absorber: "Seriously? Perhaps you should spend some time analyzing data. It's all there for you. Take a look at the metrics of 14 yo players and compare them to metrics collected at the PG National. Do you see a difference? Grades aren't given based on what the eyes see--they are based purely on data points."

Respectfully... and you know what I really mean because of how you started off your spiel...  It says right on their website that the grade is a projection of where they see the kid in the future.  And that write up of the player's performance seems an awful lot like it is based on what the PG scout's "eyes see".   

My apologies. I should not have started my reply that way.

@anotherparent posted:

I was obsessed too.  In the end I realized that the top ranked 200 players or so are ranked carefully, for the draft (those players have grades of 9.5-10). PGstaff himself, when he still posted here, admitted that.

Everyone else's rank seems to be determined by an algorithm based on the data they have on the player - FB, performance at tournaments, where committed, etc, and is completely meaningless.

I agree with much of what Absorber is saying.  But not this; paying $800 to learn how to deal with the showcase format is not justified.  There are many other places you can do that for much less money.

Everyone's journey is different and I added that for emphasis. People are going to do what they want to do so whether they pay $800 or not is completely up to them. Mileage varies!

@anotherparent posted:

Everyone else's rank seems to be determined by an algorithm based on the data they have on the player - FB, performance at tournaments, where committed, etc, and is completely meaningless.

I just want to point out again just for parents who see this in the future, I am NOT talking about rank!

Grading and ranking are two separate things.

@ABSORBER posted:

Not sure how is was 10 years ago but you don't get assigned a grade without having at least one metric. Unless you are a pitcher who gets gunned at a PG tourney, you will not have a grade without having attended a showcase.

Of course you can be ranked, but you will not have a grade.

And there are not hundreds who get graded 9.5.

As an example, there are currently 152 players in the 2024 class graded 9.5 and above:

RHP - 30

LHP - 11

C - 22

1B - 4

3B -15

MI - 39

OF -31

I asked someone high up at PG how my son got a PG score without doing a PG showcase. It was explained what he showed at PG East Cobb was noticeable enough (did everything well except hit one over the fence) that they went looking for information on him. He had a score and a rank. He had metrics from a couple of well respected, regional showcases that required scout recommendations.

But, I agree with PABaseball. The scores and rankings are meaningless. It’s about what the recruiting colleges see.

I know of a 2024 that currently has a 9 PG Grade.  He has done quite a few PG showcases.  He currently is sitting on zero D1 offers.  ZERO.

I'm not sure what that means, but it means something.

There is no doubt that in the past PG participation has helped some players. But they are in the vast minority. It’s also true that in the past Jerry Ford personally helped some players and some people on this board. That’s an even smaller minority and it is ancient history. When I joined HSBBW it was my opinion that the board was being used as a focus group by PG in order to shape public opinion and maximize profits. Personally, I thought that was disingenuous and it rubbed me the wrong way. Since Ford sold PG a couple of years ago the money grubbing has become shameful. Ranking 9u teams and players?!? Let’s see someone try to justify that! PG is a for profit business model. It is not a baseball development model. Those are facts. Once you realize that it’s much easier to figure out what part of PG, if any, will help you on your baseball journey.

Master P,

maybe that is the GPA. Did he attend the AC tryout. What is his 6th Tool?
Bob

@ABSORBER posted:

Posting to web forums is really a waster of time and I can only blame myself.

Lotta PG bashers here which is why PG himself quit wasting his time on this forum. Even though he was really helpful and would bend-over backwards to help a parent out.

I guess we can disagree on whether PG data collection and grading over the last 20+ years is any good. I'll just compare the PG grades (and ranking for top 250) to the last few MLB drafts and see where they differ. On the surface they seem pretty close to me (for prep players).

You're trying to convince a bunch of people who have been through the process, sat with coaches, have been coaches having those conversations with parents, are currently coaches, etc, that PG grades matter. They don't. There is more than enough (anecdotal of course) evidence on this board where people have asked coaches how much stock they put into rankings, ratings, etc and the answer every time is zero. In the rare cases where they do, the same coaches go and vet the kids themselves before doing anything with that information.

Coaches are not heading over to PGs site and sorting by showcase grades to see who they're going to target. They don't cross kids off their list because PG only has them as an 8 and not an 8.5. Does PG get the top of the heap right? Of course, they all play for Evoshield, Five Star, Dulins, 643, Team Elite etc. It's pretty easy to see who the top guys are when they all get together and play against each other in the playoffs, in Jupiter, etc. My guess would be the top 200 players are probably spread out across 20 or so teams - who run into each other fairly regularly.

As far as the PG bashing - this comes up every so often where people feel PG is owed a debt of gratitude. It costs money - it is not being done out of the kindness of their hearts. Is Jerry a good guy? Probably. From what I've seen around here it appears that way. Are people allowed to criticize something they feel was a bad purchase - yes. When I go to a restaurant and the food sucks, I talk about it. That's why I don't think anybody ever has the right to complain about Area Code - it's completely free.

I'm pretty pro PG. Their events have been helpful and I thought the competition was pretty good at their events. I've seen multiple #1 overall picks taking the field against us - that's pretty rare. That being said I'd never spend $800+ on a showcase to receive a number nobody cares about. If that makes me a PG basher I can live with that.

@PABaseball posted:

That being said I'd never spend $800+ on a showcase to receive a number nobody cares about. If that makes me a PG basher I can live with that.

This feels a bit like Groundhog Day on this topic, and our PG experience was the same as @PABaseball we never did a showcase. I will add that every coach my son talked to, also looked at his PG profile (not that it was spectacular, nationally ranked in the 500's - whatever that means). We did the PG tournaments because my kid enjoyed them, and I enjoyed watching him play - never went to one expecting more than that.

If you want a definitive analysis of your kids potential, pay an impartial MLB scout to watch your kid play and you'll be a lot closer to reality. I didn't pay or ask for the critique, but I got one when the kid was a junior - it turned out to be pretty spot on.

@Master P posted:

I know of a 2024 that currently has a 9 PG Grade.  He has done quite a few PG showcases.  He currently is sitting on zero D1 offers.  ZERO.

I'm not sure what that means, but it means something.

It means that the PG Grade means nothing!

I took my son to a couple PG showcases early on. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t . I think he’d be in the same position now whether or not he had attended those money wasters. Just my opinion though. Find a good travel ball team and coach that doesn’t play favoritism. Many travel teams are run by MLB scouts.  Hit the weight room . Be a good teammate .

A 2024 dad I’m friends with took his son to back to back PG showcases this summer. Started out as a 7 from sophomore year. This time he tried as a catcher. Big kid, rakes in BP. Made one pop between both showcases below a 2. They bumped him to an 8 and then a 9. The dad was laughing because the kid didn’t really show any gains between events. Here’s the kicker, he’s a terrible catcher.

It's like Grade Inflation, everyone gets at least an 8.  Especially if they go and pay for a local PG evaluation.  There is way too much project-ability in the grading system, it should be where they are "right now".  But then nobody would pay for the grade at 15yo.  I'm not sure if any recruiter pays attention to the grades, because there is one question it doesn't answer, "Can they play the game."  I do think the grades are for Parents

I mean seriously what does this mean (below)?

Son's Hs teammate was graded 8.5 and saw 3-4 non conference innings at a mid DIII freshman.  Good kid, good player, hard worker, but he was the furthest thing from a potential draft pick, and college must mean any college.  But when grading is a range of 1-10, seems they should re-evaluate the system.  A little more bell to the curve.

The PG Grade was originally meant to project future possibility. I am not sure if that concept has changed.

As far as that potential player being a future draft pick, maybe he just didn't do what's needed to reach that 8.5?

FYI, freshman very rarely play at any program, no matter what division.

"I took my son to a couple PG showcases early on. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t ." 

"The PG grade definitely matters...to the players and sometimes the parents, especially the crazy baseball obsessed ones"

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm admit guilty of this.  Even though I have an older kid and should have known better.  Perhaps this explains my animus towards PG.  A small part of me was not 100% sure if there wasn't some sort of a gain to be had by an early high PG grade.  I believe that EVERY coach looks at a kids the PG profile at least once and it couldn't hurt to have a positive write up and a 8.5 score or higher. right?   lol. But with some poor decision making, I sent my kid to one last winter and graded 7.5 despite being 90th plus percentile in every metric. Now I live in constant temptation of going to just... one... more... damn... PG showcase to clear that grade.  And relying on TBPT to regularly beat me with a reality stick. 

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

"I took my son to a couple PG showcases early on. In retrospect I wish I hadn’t ."

"The PG grade definitely matters...to the players and sometimes the parents, especially the crazy baseball obsessed ones"

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm admit guilty of this.  Even though I have an older kid and should have known better.  Perhaps this explains my animus towards PG.  A small part of me was not 100% sure if there wasn't some sort of a gain to be had by an early high PG grade.  I believe that EVERY coach looks at a kids the PG profile at least once and it couldn't hurt to have a positive write up and a 8.5 score or higher. right?   lol. But with some poor decision making, I sent my kid to one last winter and graded 7.5 despite being 90th plus percentile in every metric. Now I live in constant temptation of going to just... one... more... damn... PG showcase to clear that grade.  And relying on TBPT to regularly beat me with a reality stick.

90th percentile nationally? Or just the showcase he attended? Freshman? Rising Freshman? Sophomore? Junior?

Doesn't add up. Post a screenshot if you can.

@HSDad22 posted:

It's like Grade Inflation, everyone gets at least an 8.  Especially if they go and pay for a local PG evaluation.  There is way too much project-ability in the grading system, it should be where they are "right now".  But then nobody would pay for the grade at 15yo.  I'm not sure if any recruiter pays attention to the grades, because there is one question it doesn't answer, "Can they play the game."  I do think the grades are for Parents

I mean seriously what does this mean (below)?

8	Potential draft pick and/or excellent college prospect

Son's Hs teammate was graded 8.5 and saw 3-4 non conference innings at a mid DIII freshman.  Good kid, good player, hard worker, but he was the furthest thing from a potential draft pick, and college must mean any college.  But when grading is a range of 1-10, seems they should re-evaluate the system.  A little more bell to the curve.

Like any grading scale you need to look at the big picture. Does anyone receive less than 6.5? Very few, if any. Does anyone receive a 10? Very few. That's your scale. Count up how many of each grade 6.5 through 10 and there you will find your bell curve.

Does anyone really think grades 8 and 9 really mean anything?

Having a grade doesn't mean you can play; it simply places you in a bucket of like-metrics

@PABaseball posted:

You're trying to convince a bunch of people who have been through the process, sat with coaches, have been coaches having those conversations with parents, are currently coaches, etc, that PG grades matter. They don't. There is more than enough (anecdotal of course) evidence on this board where people have asked coaches how much stock they put into rankings, ratings, etc and the answer every time is zero. In the rare cases where they do, the same coaches go and vet the kids themselves before doing anything with that information.

Coaches are not heading over to PGs site and sorting by showcase grades to see who they're going to target. They don't cross kids off their list because PG only has them as an 8 and not an 8.5. Does PG get the top of the heap right? Of course, they all play for Evoshield, Five Star, Dulins, 643, Team Elite etc. It's pretty easy to see who the top guys are when they all get together and play against each other in the playoffs, in Jupiter, etc. My guess would be the top 200 players are probably spread out across 20 or so teams - who run into each other fairly regularly.

Once again, you (and others) keep talking about "rankings". I'm talking about GRADES. They are simply a grouping of like-metrics, regardless of what a PG write-up says about what each grade represents.

National level travel teams are usually made up of kids from all over; they don't develop talent themselves. How do you think they identify players to invite for their teams? You haven't seen these teams recruiting from the PG Junior National Showcase and other events?

Again, not talking about rankings here-just grades. You don't receive a grade (today) without having metrics and that usually means you attended a showcase. Unless you are a pitcher--who received pitching metrics at a tourney.

Not disputing how college coaches find players but anyone here who thinks PG (and others--like PBR) doesn't have at some impact is in denial. Me, I'm a realist. Coaches don't have the time or resources to evaluate every high school player in the country based upon that kid sending email with his metrics on the subject line. These prep organizations most definitely have an impact.

Every major college program out there crows about their recruiting class rankings (and no, those are not based on GRADES)...

@ABSORBER posted:

90th percentile nationally? Or just the showcase he attended? Freshman? Rising Freshman? Sophomore? Junior?

Doesn't add up. Post a screenshot if you can.T

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Their listed percentiles are national.  He is kinda young for class also so keep that in mind.

I'm sorry, I feel like 2022NYC.  Lol.

PERCENTILE RANKINGS

CLASS OF 2025 in the recorded year

CATEGORY	TOP RESULT	CLASS AVG	PERCENTILE
FB	84 mph	75 mph	91.82%
60	7.27 sec	7.60 sec	71.78%
10 SPL	1.60 sec	1.76 sec	91.66%
1B	82 mph	73 mph	89.36%

Position? Don't know what to tell you. Here are the 8 2025 1B's who threw 82 at a PG showcase in 2022:

Is your kid one of them? If so, his grade should be 8 or 9 since these eight were grade 8 or 9.

(First column is grade, second column is 1B velo)

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Their listed percentiles are national.  He is kinda young for class also so keep that in mind.

I'm sorry, I feel like 2022NYC.  Lol.

PERCENTILE RANKINGS

CLASS OF 2025 in the recorded year

CATEGORY	TOP RESULT	CLASS AVG	PERCENTILE
FB	84 mph	75 mph	91.82%
60	7.27 sec	7.60 sec	71.78%
10 SPL	1.60 sec	1.76 sec	91.66%
1B	82 mph	73 mph	89.36%

And one more item to note: a grade is given after the conclusion of a showcase (usually within a month or so). That grade won't get updated again regardless of what kind of stud the players develops into. There are plenty of cases where a newly drafted player has a poor grade (or no grade at all) on the PG site!

So, yes, if you received a not-so-hot grade then you will fall into the PG trap of continuously attending showcases! But I don't believe PG gives out grades with this in mind; it's just a common effect. They aren't twisting your arm.

In the case of the numbers listed above above, they would have to apply to only the showcase in question, not the player's cumulative metrics. So if you son happened to throw 90 a week ago his grade won't change.

OK. this is done.  A burnt chicken on the grill.  Let's move along.

What I got out of this thread, other similar threads, and my own experience.

• Showcases are helpful to capture verified metrics; BUT only go to showcases if you know you have something to show.
• PG showcases at $800 is not worth it.  Go to cheaper showcases that captures the same verifiable metrics.  If you really want to show metrics in PG, go to the cheaper 1 day WWBA workouts.
• While metrics are helpful, and I do think coaches do look at your metrics, I do land on the camp of "PG grades and rankings do not mean anything".
• Metrics is just one aspect.  Coaches still definitely want to see you play.  They could also identify you based on how you play w/o looking at PG profile/grades/ranking/metrics first (which is what happened with my son).
• There are a lot of what we call "showcase kids".  These are kids who has the look, and have really good metrics, but does not translate on the field.  They may not have the right attitude, character, temperament, etc.  There are also a lot of ways to game the numbers in showcases doing things that you won't do in a game.  I still expect these kids to be recruited and be given opportunity bec there's always the chance that the coach can teach these kids how to play later on.  More often than not, they just flame out.
• While PG showcases are not worth it, the bigger/major PG tournaments could be worth it if you are on one of the teams that can really compete (and not just be the sacrificial punching bag).  For example, in the recent 17u WWBA with 418 teams, I believe you could have had a much better tournament by just taking the best 100 teams, playing true round robin, and then everyone gets into bracket play.  The teams outside of the top 100 teams would be better off (financially and exposure wise) to play local or arrange for round robins at colleges.

For example, in the recent 17u WWBA with 418 teams

Wow! I thought it was way too many several years as ago when it was about 320.

@RJM posted:

For example, in the recent 17u WWBA with 418 teams

Wow! I thought it was way too many several years as ago when it was about 320.

And the only way PG can accommodate these many teams in ATL is by having teams playing in fields that are 1 hr or more away from East Cobb.  No one who lives locally even considers these location to be in Atlanta.  I like the PBR tournaments a lot more.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

OK. this is done.  A burnt chicken on the grill.  Let's move along.

A horse being dead has never been reason enough for some people to stop beating it.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

OK. this is done.  A burnt chicken on the grill.  Let's move along.

Wow, I can't wait until tomorrow to find a situation to use the above expression!

Final update.

What a difference a month makes. The phone did start ringing and he had multiple offers. He ended up taking the first one and, in my opinion, the strongest academic/baseball combo of his options. Pepperdine U. I will say, there were multiple P5’s that ended up showing some interest (four), but definitely the schools on the lighter side of the ledger and no heavy pursuit or offers prior to his acceptance of this one. Could he have made it to a P5? Who knows, I don’t really care but it is relevant in the context of the conversation string so thought I’d share. In the end, he really liked Danny Worth and Rick Hirtensteiner. The fact that Coach Worth came out to a game at WWBA, they built a nice pregame report, and kid was raking that day all didn’t hurt.

All we can ask for in life is a shot— he’s got it, we’ll see where this goes. I sure am beaming with pride right now though, thanks to all who shared a little bit of this journey. Baseball’s the best, except when it isn’t. But today, it’s the best.

That’s awesome!

Congratulations to your son! Fantastic news, now on to what’s next in parental stressors… Lol, congrats to mom and dad too, the achievement take a lot of support!

Congrats to your son + the family!

Congrats, and thanks for posting the whole story!

Congratulations to your son.

Question, do you believe the advisor from Elite Sports Marketing helped in the process?

Congratulations! How exciting.

Congrats to your son!!  I know the process has been taking longer for lots of 2024s and 25s.

Giff;

Great school history, beautiful field. View of the Pacific Ocean. Will your son major in film production.

Dave Gorrie, Pepperdine former Coach was one of our American Team Coaches and a friend.

Bob

@TPM posted:

Congratulations to your son.

Question, do you believe the advisor from Elite Sports Marketing helped in the process?

This is a great question.   I am hearing more and more about Sports Marketing promotors in high school sports, and I am curious about their effectiveness.   They seem to be willing to take the roll of promoting players (that pay them money) that travel ball coaches use to serve in years past.   

Yes Bob but it is even cooler when the ARMY pays for it! GO WAVES!!

@TPM posted:

Congratulations to your son.

Question, do you believe the advisor from Elite Sports Marketing helped in the process?

I am a little gun shy; I suspect this will be controversial due to money, and I don’t really want to start anything problematic, but it might be fun so here goes. Long answer so if you’ve already nailed down an opinion on this, you may want to skip.

I really liked my dude—I’ll just call him “dude” as I don’t know if it’s ok to put his name here, but he was a young kid— 25-30ish, and had recently ended a pro career. His Dad coached D1 and he had a solid Rolodex. His head was in the game and he was making calls and being responsive. His ability to get coaches to respond was FAR better than what my son was getting before. To be fair, that could have been the timing of the recruitment. As many pointed out here, some schools were waiting to see the transfer portal/draft fall out before finishing up their 2024 push. The Dude had immediate responses from Alabama, Cincinnati, Coastal Carolina, the academies, Arizona State and several D2, D3’s that showed varying levels of interest.

Dude was good about judging true interest as distinguished from camp invites (that lacked interest, i realize some camp invites are truly interested). I think he generated a lot of interest to schools not on our radar. Now, these advisors charge real money—and that’s the rub. I think they are too expensive but it is an incredibly niche market, so they are, like true capitalists, using that as leverage for their price point. You may or may not want to spend that sort of money in this direction, depending on your financial situation. For us, it wasn’t going to hurt our family, I had the money,  so I took the chance.

The question is really, could all this have ended up in the same place without him? The answer to that is unclear. My son had interest from Pepperdine before we hired Elite. He went to a camp there a year ago and made an impression. Then, they came out to WWBA last month and he showed out. It could be as simple as those two events (Camp/WWBA). However, the advisor was contacting them all along ensuring everyone was clear on location and any other relevant information. I did see Dude’s text string between the new HC at Alabama and one between him and Cincy (he sent a screen shot) and the ease with which the coaches were communicating and their responsiveness was like how normal humans interact. Meaning they were simply texting back and forth as opposed to the spotty texting/emailing/calls that were happening before between my son and coaches, often leaving my son a little confused on where he stood.

Biggest mistake I made as a Dad was not the advisor, it was in my recent attempt to get ahead of the Naval Academy situation. I’m retired USMC so thought I could really assist there and maybe could have, but not with baseball in the mix. Naval Academy showed initial interest and my son showed a lot of interest back to them, in large part because of our family history with the military. I thought he’d be a score for the naval academy so I started to assist him with the (very) detailed application. He secured a nomination, went to their one week summer seminar in Annapolis, went to Boys State in Austin (academies love that), and volunteered as a Son of the American Legion. He runs a 6 minute mile, has the test scores, crushed the Combat Fitness Assessment and seemed to be the ideal prospective Naval Officer. All that work was done, then, the Coaches came down to WWBA, saw two at bats (strike out, ground out) and told our advisor they were not interested. The rest of the tournament he did very well as i expressed earlier in this thread, but indeed, timing is everything.

It hurt when they passed, only because my son had Naval Academy as #1 on his list— and not just because of baseball. My mistake? Sending him to weeks of training, interviews, fitness assessments etc, prior to having more certainty on the baseball piece. They say to stay out of your kids way, but obviously, parents are a huge part of where, when, and how prepared the boys are to play.I should have steered clear of the academies based on what I observed. I found their communication to be really poor— whether with the advisor or my son. That really makes it tough when your son says it’s his #1 and you’re trying to impress them. Such a weird process, I cannot imagine Naval Academy being competitive with Pepperdine in baseball  or any of the other schools recruiting my son—but nevertheless they passed. I don’t think they knew anything about his PG stuff, or anything else— it was a 30 minute observation in a game where my son went 1-3 and they missed the “1”.

They say the academies look at far more than baseball, but it seems my son had that other stuff in spades. It just reminded me of when I was in the Marine Corps and we often had difficulty retaining talent—we just weren’t good at seeing it—and I’m not talking baseball, I’m talking work ethic, integrity, physical/mental toughness,, etc. I think the Naval Academy missed it, but it’s my son, so they would immediately invalidate my opinion if I cared to share it with them. You can read all about the academies recruiting difficulties and, by extension the military in general. Maybe I saw a little bit of the reason why, not because they passed on him for baseball and my sour grapes, but because they didn’t look really hard at him, all while he’s doing far more than their average recruit. I still scratch my head at that one.

Bottom line, would I recommend an advisor? Depends on your son. If he is top level, blue chip you definitely do not need this. I’m sure the coaches are all over those types and it will just add an unnecessary layer. Conversely, if your kid doesn’t belong in a certain tier and you’re shopping in the wrong aisle, an advisor can talk you into reality. If you’re thinking an advisor will get your D3 kid to get a P5 scholarship, it ain’t going to happen. If you’re in a situation like ours, with a projectable kid who is not getting specific enough attention, and you do the due diligence to find an advisor with real connections, then I think it’s a great way to make use of them. And I can only say that my guy specifically was helpful, I cannot speak for their entire industry which is perhaps full of grifters “getting” unsuspecting parents the deal that they were going to get anyways. Even if that occurred in my case, his ability to communicate with the coaches from Alabama, Cincy and the others beyond Pepp at least gave us the confidence to make a better informed decision. His ability to help my son make this all important decision made him worth my hard earned dollars and if someone were in a situation like my son’s, I’d recommend him.

@Giff posted:

I am a little gun shy; I suspect this will be controversial due to money, and I don’t really want to start anything problematic, but it might be fun so here goes. Long answer so if you’ve already nailed down an opinion on this, you may want to skip.

I really liked my dude—I’ll just call him “dude” as I don’t know if it’s ok to put his name here, but he was a young kid— 25-30ish, and had recently ended a pro career. His Dad coached D1 and he had a solid Rolodex. His head was in the game and he was making calls and being responsive. His ability to get coaches to respond was FAR better than what my son was getting before. To be fair, that could have been the timing of the recruitment. As many pointed out here, some schools were waiting to see the transfer portal/draft fall out before finishing up their 2024 push. The Dude had immediate responses from Alabama, Cincinnati, Coastal Carolina, the academies, Arizona State and several D2, D3’s that showed varying levels of interest.

Dude was good about judging true interest as distinguished from camp invites (that lacked interest, i realize some camp invites are truly interested). I think he generated a lot of interest to schools not on our radar. Now, these advisors charge real money—and that’s the rub. I think they are too expensive but it is an incredibly niche market, so they are, like true capitalists, using that as leverage for their price point. You may or may not want to spend that sort of money in this direction, depending on your financial situation. For us, it wasn’t going to hurt our family, I had the money,  so I took the chance.

The question is really, could all this have ended up in the same place without him? The answer to that is unclear. My son had interest from Pepperdine before we hired Elite. He went to a camp there a year ago and made an impression. Then, they came out to WWBA last month and he showed out. It could be as simple as those two events (Camp/WWBA). However, the advisor was contacting them all along ensuring everyone was clear on location and any other relevant information. I did see Dude’s text string between the new HC at Alabama and one between him and Cincy (he sent a screen shot) and the ease with which the coaches were communicating and their responsiveness was like how normal humans interact. Meaning they were simply texting back and forth as opposed to the spotty texting/emailing/calls that were happening before between my son and coaches, often leaving my son a little confused on where he stood.

Biggest mistake I made as a Dad was not the advisor, it was in my recent attempt to get ahead of the Naval Academy situation. I’m retired USMC so thought I could really assist there and maybe could have, but not with baseball in the mix. Naval Academy showed initial interest and my son showed a lot of interest back to them, in large part because of our family history with the military. I thought he’d be a score for the naval academy so I started to assist him with the (very) detailed application. He secured a nomination, went to their one week summer seminar in Annapolis, went to Boys State in Austin (academies love that), and volunteered as a Son of the American Legion. He runs a 6 minute mile, has the test scores, crushed the Combat Fitness Assessment and seemed to be the ideal prospective Naval Officer. All that work was done, then, the Coaches came down to WWBA, saw two at bats (strike out, ground out) and told our advisor they were not interested. The rest of the tournament he did very well as i expressed earlier in this thread, but indeed, timing is everything.

It hurt when they passed, only because my son had Naval Academy as #1 on his list— and not just because of baseball. My mistake? Sending him to weeks of training, interviews, fitness assessments etc, prior to having more certainty on the baseball piece. They say to stay out of your kids way, but obviously, parents are a huge part of where, when, and how prepared the boys are to play.I should have steered clear of the academies based on what I observed. I found their communication to be really poor— whether with the advisor or my son. That really makes it tough when your son says it’s his #1 and you’re trying to impress them. Such a weird process, I cannot imagine Naval Academy being competitive with Pepperdine in baseball  or any of the other schools recruiting my son—but nevertheless they passed. I don’t think they knew anything about his PG stuff, or anything else— it was a 30 minute observation in a game where my son went 1-3 and they missed the “1”.

They say the academies look at far more than baseball, but it seems my son had that other stuff in spades. It just reminded me of when I was in the Marine Corps and we often had difficulty retaining talent—we just weren’t good at seeing it—and I’m not talking baseball, I’m talking work ethic, integrity, physical/mental toughness,, etc. I think the Naval Academy missed it, but it’s my son, so they would immediately invalidate my opinion if I cared to share it with them. You can read all about the academies recruiting difficulties and, by extension the military in general. Maybe I saw a little bit of the reason why, not because they passed on him for baseball and my sour grapes, but because they didn’t look really hard at him, all while he’s doing far more than their average recruit. I still scratch my head at that one.

Bottom line, would I recommend an advisor? Depends on your son. If he is top level, blue chip you definitely do not need this. I’m sure the coaches are all over those types and it will just add an unnecessary layer. Conversely, if your kid doesn’t belong in a certain tier and you’re shopping in the wrong aisle, an advisor can talk you into reality. If you’re thinking an advisor will get your D3 kid to get a P5 scholarship, it ain’t going to happen. If you’re in a situation like ours, with a projectable kid who is not getting specific enough attention, and you do the due diligence to find an advisor with real connections, then I think it’s a great way to make use of them. And I can only say that my guy specifically was helpful, I cannot speak for their entire industry which is perhaps full of grifters “getting” unsuspecting parents the deal that they were going to get anyways. Even if that occurred in my case, his ability to communicate with the coaches from Alabama, Cincy and the others beyond Pepp at least gave us the confidence to make a better informed decision. His ability to help my son make this all important decision made him worth my hard earned dollars and if someone were in a situation like my son’s, I’d recommend him.

This is one of the most detailed, well-written, and heartfelt postings I have seen on this forum. Thanks for sharing!

@Giff posted:

I am a little gun shy; I suspect this will be controversial due to money, and I don’t really want to start anything problematic, but it might be fun so here goes. Long answer so if you’ve already nailed down an opinion on this, you may want to skip.

I really liked my dude—I’ll just call him “dude” as I don’t know if it’s ok to put his name here, but he was a young kid— 25-30ish, and had recently ended a pro career. His Dad coached D1 and he had a solid Rolodex. His head was in the game and he was making calls and being responsive. His ability to get coaches to respond was FAR better than what my son was getting before. To be fair, that could have been the timing of the recruitment. As many pointed out here, some schools were waiting to see the transfer portal/draft fall out before finishing up their 2024 push. The Dude had immediate responses from Alabama, Cincinnati, Coastal Carolina, the academies, Arizona State and several D2, D3’s that showed varying levels of interest.

Dude was good about judging true interest as distinguished from camp invites (that lacked interest, i realize some camp invites are truly interested). I think he generated a lot of interest to schools not on our radar. Now, these advisors charge real money—and that’s the rub. I think they are too expensive but it is an incredibly niche market, so they are, like true capitalists, using that as leverage for their price point. You may or may not want to spend that sort of money in this direction, depending on your financial situation. For us, it wasn’t going to hurt our family, I had the money,  so I took the chance.

The question is really, could all this have ended up in the same place without him? The answer to that is unclear. My son had interest from Pepperdine before we hired Elite. He went to a camp there a year ago and made an impression. Then, they came out to WWBA last month and he showed out. It could be as simple as those two events (Camp/WWBA). However, the advisor was contacting them all along ensuring everyone was clear on location and any other relevant information. I did see Dude’s text string between the new HC at Alabama and one between him and Cincy (he sent a screen shot) and the ease with which the coaches were communicating and their responsiveness was like how normal humans interact. Meaning they were simply texting back and forth as opposed to the spotty texting/emailing/calls that were happening before between my son and coaches, often leaving my son a little confused on where he stood.

Biggest mistake I made as a Dad was not the advisor, it was in my recent attempt to get ahead of the Naval Academy situation. I’m retired USMC so thought I could really assist there and maybe could have, but not with baseball in the mix. Naval Academy showed initial interest and my son showed a lot of interest back to them, in large part because of our family history with the military. I thought he’d be a score for the naval academy so I started to assist him with the (very) detailed application. He secured a nomination, went to their one week summer seminar in Annapolis, went to Boys State in Austin (academies love that), and volunteered as a Son of the American Legion. He runs a 6 minute mile, has the test scores, crushed the Combat Fitness Assessment and seemed to be the ideal prospective Naval Officer. All that work was done, then, the Coaches came down to WWBA, saw two at bats (strike out, ground out) and told our advisor they were not interested. The rest of the tournament he did very well as i expressed earlier in this thread, but indeed, timing is everything.

It hurt when they passed, only because my son had Naval Academy as #1 on his list— and not just because of baseball. My mistake? Sending him to weeks of training, interviews, fitness assessments etc, prior to having more certainty on the baseball piece. They say to stay out of your kids way, but obviously, parents are a huge part of where, when, and how prepared the boys are to play.I should have steered clear of the academies based on what I observed. I found their communication to be really poor— whether with the advisor or my son. That really makes it tough when your son says it’s his #1 and you’re trying to impress them. Such a weird process, I cannot imagine Naval Academy being competitive with Pepperdine in baseball  or any of the other schools recruiting my son—but nevertheless they passed. I don’t think they knew anything about his PG stuff, or anything else— it was a 30 minute observation in a game where my son went 1-3 and they missed the “1”.

They say the academies look at far more than baseball, but it seems my son had that other stuff in spades. It just reminded me of when I was in the Marine Corps and we often had difficulty retaining talent—we just weren’t good at seeing it—and I’m not talking baseball, I’m talking work ethic, integrity, physical/mental toughness,, etc. I think the Naval Academy missed it, but it’s my son, so they would immediately invalidate my opinion if I cared to share it with them. You can read all about the academies recruiting difficulties and, by extension the military in general. Maybe I saw a little bit of the reason why, not because they passed on him for baseball and my sour grapes, but because they didn’t look really hard at him, all while he’s doing far more than their average recruit. I still scratch my head at that one.

Bottom line, would I recommend an advisor? Depends on your son. If he is top level, blue chip you definitely do not need this. I’m sure the coaches are all over those types and it will just add an unnecessary layer. Conversely, if your kid doesn’t belong in a certain tier and you’re shopping in the wrong aisle, an advisor can talk you into reality. If you’re thinking an advisor will get your D3 kid to get a P5 scholarship, it ain’t going to happen. If you’re in a situation like ours, with a projectable kid who is not getting specific enough attention, and you do the due diligence to find an advisor with real connections, then I think it’s a great way to make use of them. And I can only say that my guy specifically was helpful, I cannot speak for their entire industry which is perhaps full of grifters “getting” unsuspecting parents the deal that they were going to get anyways. Even if that occurred in my case, his ability to communicate with the coaches from Alabama, Cincy and the others beyond Pepp at least gave us the confidence to make a better informed decision. His ability to help my son make this all important decision made him worth my hard earned dollars and if someone were in a situation like my son’s, I’d recommend him.

Thank you for this response.  It seems to me that perhaps the advisor fulfilled what you and all of us hoped that travel ball coaches would fulfill in the recruiting process.   My son and I put in a ton of work with emails, edited film, more emails, and then emails again, in hopes of getting my son on someone's radar.   I don't really know how much effort our travel ball coaches and directors played in that process.   Were they calling coaches on my son's behalf?  I don't know the answer to that.  I do know that the school that offered and committed my son didn't speak to travel ball coaches until they were made aware of my son via his own efforts to reach out to them.   So, would I have paid for someone with connections to do all of that work for us?  yes, I would have.   

I have found that the problem with the military academies, sometimes, is they are not good at jumping on the ones that want to be there and spend time chasing the ones who they have to convince to be there.  That comes from being good friends with one of the RC of one of the military academies and having dealt with 2 others in the recruitment of my son and another player.  I gave the guy a player who wanted to go to the academy but he wanted to spend all his time chasing the one who did not want to be there and then missed out on the one who did.

@Giff, I echo the response from @ABSORBER. What an excellent post! I only have one question. What is a Rolodex?

Did he just date himself? Adbono.  There are some young guys on here that are truly wondering what that is.

adbono just look it up on the interweb!

@Good Knight posted:

adbono just look it up on the interweb!

I just asked Siri , “what is a Rolodex?”

Response was, “Okay Boomer”

Great post Giff and congrats to you and your son for his commitment to Pepperdine.  Typically, I'm of the mind set that potential recruits can and should do this on their own given enough time and planning.  I don't know your exact situation but it seems like your son was running out of time and you decided to do something about it.  Fair enough.   Many of us may have done the same.

Every personal conversation about recruiting I've had on this website has examples of RCs or HCs passing on a recruit who would be a perfect fit at their school.  It always comes up.  I look at it this way....you did everything you possibly could do to put him in a winning position with the Naval Academy.  Based on everything you've shared, he would have been ideal for Navy.   Bottom line is your son only gets one chance at this (freshman) recruiting thing and it didn't work out.  You'll never know why, and that is the part that eats away at people.   Something similar happened to my son.  He had the added benefit of playing against a certain team (that passed on him) every year in conference.  He loved pitching against them!  Once your son is on-campus and fighting for playing time, all of this "why didn't they recruit me" will go away.   He'll have bigger fish to fry, and he'll realize this is where he belongs.

JMO and Good luck!

Congratulations and really appreciated the detail of your post.  USNA missed a good one, but everything works out in the long run.  Good luck.

@adbono posted:

@Giff, I echo the response from @ABSORBER. What an excellent post! I only have one question. What is a Rolodex?

I thought someone might pick up on that. 😂 if you don’t know, I’m not sure how to explain it, sort of like when i tried to explain a rotary phone to my kids, I just leave it to them to research the history of outdated office supplies.

@PitchingFan posted:

Did he just date himself? Adbono.  There are some young guys on here that are truly wondering what that is.

They’re called “Contact Managers” now. We tracked everything and scheduled next actions ona contact manager when my kids went through recruiting. I adapted “Act” I used for work to handle recruiting.

@Giff regarding USNA - I don't know much about the services academy but I get the impression that there's a lot of prep work needed just to be in a position to be considered for admission.  If you didn't do all that you did, and the USNA coach showed interest, would the USNA opp be put at risk bec you and your son didn't do any of the stuff you did?  That would have been a big regret if that happened.  The irony is that the more we expend a lot of effort to prepare and put ourselves in the best position for an opportunity, the more painful and frustrating it is when the opportunity do not materialize.  But that doesn't mean we should not have done the preparation.

The part about their interest going away bec they saw your son go 0-2 was very interesting bec I've always been told that the coaches do not care about the result.  When they watch you play, they care more about your mechanics and not the result.  And if they already know what you can do, they actually want to see you fail (go 0-2) so that they can see your character and how you respond to adversity.  Is this all a myth of what good college coaches should do but it is not the reality most of the time anymore now?

Giff … todays post is a fantastic, honest reflection and assessment of the journey. As I’ve always told posters, if you’re kid wants it badly enough he’ll get it.

A story on not getting your HA first choice …

My son’s objective was a couple of Ivies. He got injured. He needed baseball for acceptance to any Ivy. He ended up at a Big 10. His injury gave him five years to play four. He left with a great baseball experience, a BA and an MBA.

A couple of years ago I asked my son if he had any regrets on how things worked out. He didn’t. He got to attend a top twenty MBA program just by already being there for baseball. He figures he would be in the same or similar place career wise regardless.

Best of luck to your son’s baseball and academic career.

Congratulations!!  I gotta say though, I think he's really gonna struggle with that decision.  No way in &e(( he will be able to focus on playing ball with the constant pull to look West.  . 

Unbelievable spot to play and practice baseball... and the travel locations don't suck either.

Congratulations @Giff. Great, reflective post as well. And you probably dodged a bullet with the USNA. If they walked away that quickly they didn't appreciate  what they had in the first place..!!

Malibu, CA, is gorgeous- I spent many summers there at swim camps. I've enjoyed reading through this thread. Big congratulations

Congratulations, @Giff!

@adbono posted:

@Giff, I echo the response from @ABSORBER. What an excellent post! I only have one question. What is a Rolodex?

I think its a watch.