I love animals - but?

Coach May,

Once - I was walking through the woods. Minding my own business.

A deer came up to me. The deer had a Yankee hat on.

He nudged me with his snout - which got my attention.
I turned around.
He asked me if I liked the Yankees.

I said No. I am a Mets fan.

He said "Boswell sucks and so does Koosman".
Then he gored me with his left antler.

So I shot him - and then I ate him.

A tasty dinner - and one less Yankee fan.



P.S. Are you going to the Impact tournament this weekend?

This is how you Cure Micheal Vick.
And People like Micheal Vick who use Animals that fight,
As Entertainment and Gambling.
And thats what fighting Dogs is all About. Gambling Money.
Player's in this game just need a half starved Pit bull with an attitude. And they can win some money without to much investment.

When they get caught doing this type of Illegal behavior.
Fighting Dogs, Chickens, Whatever..

You Put them in a cage.
You can limit there food intake, But not starve them.
And then when there just getting to get angry and lashout.
You put them in the Octegon, With Chuck Liddell.
You Know a good old cage match.
Then they will know what there Dogs went thru.
EH

EH,

Either that - or lock them up in a Shea Stadium bathroom for about a week.

They will be cured.

Then theres that poor bovine treated like king for months. Then the guy whos been feeding you, talkin you up to the neighbors, letting you hang out all day with the guys in the field, called in for dinner, you take a **** and someone cleans it up, then he puts you in a party van with all your buddies on a road trip. They stop and direct you through the turnstiles, you think your at a world series of cow chip throwing. Before you know it you are in a box seat for one and your up to bat.

That sounds fair doesn't it? Real sporty. However, no ones complaining when the weber fires up. We're at the top of the food chain and with that standing we do things that sometimes don't feel that good. But that's our place, and I'd rather be on this end.

Well said rz1.

I'm not in favour of what Vick did.

But rz1 makes a great point.

Many others are guilty of what Vick did and worse, but they don't get the publicity he did. Here's the sickening story of something that happened in the San Antonio area a couple of weeks ago:

SAN ANTONIO -- Guadalupe County authorities arrested a group of teens who they said tortured a dog to death in an abandonded home on Tuesday.

Police said the three boys ages 12, 14, and 16 walked into Stephanie Tavere's yard and stole her beloved dog Tobey.

Officers said the teens took the dog to an abandoned house and repeatedly threw the dog out of a second story window.

After its legs were broken, the boys hung the dog in a tree and proceeded to beat it like a pinata, authorities said.

Police said the teens ended up decapitating the dog.

A neighbor across the street saw the suspicious activity and called police.

The teens are being held on charges of animal cruelty resulting in death.

If convicted, they could be put in jail until they turn 19.

Nan Udell, an assistant co-attorney, said local law enforcement are very disturbed by the animal cruelty case.

She declined to show photos to KSAT 12 News that she said are too gruesome to fathom.

Udell said what is also disturbing is that the boys have shown no remorse for what they did.

"We're very concerned about that," Udell said. "They have been asked to have psychological testing so we can see if this is a pattern or a fluke. We don't know right now."

I find it interesting that I never claimed to be anti-hunting just went about comparing the cruelty. I hunt and grew up hunting. I know all I need to know. But to say that sticking an arrow in an animal is not cruel is not realistic. How long does the arrow have to be in the animal before it is considered cruel. The original question was that they are just animals and what was all the hoopla. My take on it was yes we treat animals in a less than humane nature for sport all the time. Is it the level of inhumanity that matters? Or do we placate ourselves in to believing that we are helping the animals by hunting them. I guess since we disrupted the natural order of things we have to justify the correction.

I would never try to interfere with your or my right to hunt, but I also understand that any time you kill another creature there is cruelty involved.

quote:

by Racab: Original hunting was stablished for humans to eat, not to hang a deer's head on the wall.

those heads don't taste too good and take up too much room in the freezer

quote:

by deldad: How long does the arrow have to be in the animal before it is considered cruel

good question ... and what is the deer thinking as the wolves eat him alive.

I'm not a hunter, but hunting and dog fighting are not even close! As a kid I saw dog fighting, it was done in my neighborhood.
First, a dog raised to fight is f**cking tortured from birth. An unbelievable existence, beatings, teasing, more beatings, more teasing. No contact with other animals or humans (except for beating, teasing, and feeding.) AND THE DOG HASN'T EVEN HAD HIS FIRST FIGHT YET!.

Now comes the fight. I can't even explain it other than horrific? Teeth nashing, flesh being pulled off, eyes and ears ripped apart etcc...

What Vic funded and participated in was premeditated and systematic cruelty.

If I get lucky and find a jeannie in a bottle. My wish. "I WANT TO BE THE MIDDLE LINEBACKER THE DAY VICK RETURNS TO FOOTBALL"

Hopefully, the situation will bring more awareness to local law enforcement across the country to find and punish offenders.

You guys, Bullwinkle is going to not come around for fear of being hunted down!

They hunt gators down here, is that cruel? They are such ugly and nasty things to begin with. They even extend season if the population is too heavy.

I never thought much about hunting a gator but do feel for the bambi's of the world.

It's a matter of opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
Many others are guilty of what Vick did and worse, but they don't get the publicity he did. Here's the sickening story of something that happened in the San Antonio area a couple of weeks ago:

SAN ANTONIO -- Guadalupe County authorities arrested a group of teens who they said tortured a dog to death in an abandonded home on Tuesday.

Police said the three boys ages 12, 14, and 16 walked into Stephanie Tavere's yard and stole her beloved dog Tobey.

Officers said the teens took the dog to an abandoned house and repeatedly threw the dog out of a second story window.

After its legs were broken, the boys hung the dog in a tree and proceeded to beat it like a pinata, authorities said.

Police said the teens ended up decapitating the dog.

A neighbor across the street saw the suspicious activity and called police.

The teens are being held on charges of animal cruelty resulting in death.

If convicted, they could be put in jail until they turn 19.

Nan Udell, an assistant co-attorney, said local law enforcement are very disturbed by the animal cruelty case.

She declined to show photos to KSAT 12 News that she said are too gruesome to fathom.

Udell said what is also disturbing is that the boys have shown no remorse for what they did.

"We're very concerned about that," Udell said. "They have been asked to have psychological testing so we can see if this is a pattern or a fluke. We don't know right now."

I fold. The thread is now officially gross.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
Many others are guilty of what Vick did and worse, but they don't get the publicity he did. Here's the sickening story of something that happened in the San Antonio area a couple of weeks ago:

SAN ANTONIO -- Guadalupe County authorities arrested a group of teens who they said tortured a dog to death in an abandonded home on Tuesday.

Police said the three boys ages 12, 14, and 16 walked into Stephanie Tavere's yard and stole her beloved dog Tobey.

Officers said the teens took the dog to an abandoned house and repeatedly threw the dog out of a second story window.

After its legs were broken, the boys hung the dog in a tree and proceeded to beat it like a pinata, authorities said.

Police said the teens ended up decapitating the dog.

A neighbor across the street saw the suspicious activity and called police.

The teens are being held on charges of animal cruelty resulting in death.

If convicted, they could be put in jail until they turn 19.

Nan Udell, an assistant co-attorney, said local law enforcement are very disturbed by the animal cruelty case.

She declined to show photos to KSAT 12 News that she said are too gruesome to fathom.

Udell said what is also disturbing is that the boys have shown no remorse for what they did.

"We're very concerned about that," Udell said. "They have been asked to have psychological testing so we can see if this is a pattern or a fluke. We don't know right now."

Think this post cuts to the chase! Dog fighting and cruelty to animals has nothing to do with sport or gambling, it has to do with the enjoyment of seeing something suffer. These kids should be put away for life. If they would do this to an animal, they would do it to a human. People who watch dog fights, c o c k fights, ultimate fighting matches, bull fights, gladiator rings, whatever it may be, enjoy seeing things suffer. Some animalistic urge,
I guess. Watching it is one thing, and watching two humans who have a choice to be doing the fighting is one thing, but to be the people who deal out the suffering or set up the circumstances for the suffering is another thing entirely. Those people are pure evil and should not be allowed to be in a free society, IMO.

Deldad, we'll never agree so why don't we give it a rest. The freaking world is full of varying degrees of cruelty, in case you haven't noticed. What you're complaining about has to rank at the very bottom in terms of degree, with dog fighting at the other end. Many Americans really don't have a very good comprehension of what goes on in the natural world on a daily basis, or even the human world in other regions; things that are considered normal and accepted. You're providing a biased view in a misleading light, and I know from first-hand experience that what you've offered to the unknowing as fact, is most often not the case.

As a final example, I've shot elk with arrows and had them pass compeletely through the bull, and he had not clue at all what had just happened, as he's stood there calling and challenging me (thinking my calling was another bull elk), until he tipped over within 10 yards of where I shot him. I've done that more than a few times, and assure you they don't comprehend suffering as we know it. Most of the animals I've shot with a bow have expired within sight, in well under a minute. I DON'T think that's cruel, but rather is quite humane. If you were to expand it to guns, yeah, that's more violent but generally very quick so that is also quite humane. IF you thought about this for even a minute, you might realize that what animals do to each other regularly is far more violent and painful than anything we hunters do.

I don't care to continue a debate with you in front of a bunch of people who really only care about baseball, so lets give it a rest. I think we can all agree that Michael Vick and anyone else who tortures animals is a low life P.O.S.; so why don't we stick to what we can agree about? If you want to debate baseball, I'll talk with you all day long.

If you want to keep debating the ethics of hunting, you can PM me; but you better know what you're talking about, as I sure do. It might take me a while to respond too, as it's hunting season. Last weekend was shared with my son on a wonderful Sage Grouse hunt on the high desert; deer season opens for my son and I next weekend, and I leave shortly after that for a couple elk hunts in Arizona and Nevada, so I won't have a lot of time to debate with you. I don't even have the elk licenses, but love hunting rutting bulls so much that I'm tagging along to help with the hunts.

You say "carnivore" and I say "herbivore"
You say "omnivore” I say "what for?"
"carnivore" "herbivore", "omnivore" "what for?"
Let's call the whole thing off

You say "let’s shoot it," I say "just leave it"
You say "its dinner", I say "it’s Momma"
“shoot it” “leave it”, “dinner” “Momma”
Oh, let's call the whole thing off

Moosie!, how've you been big fella? Must be tough times in ZOT-land with the coaches leaving, huh?

Thanks for your thoughts, I couldn't agree more.

Have you been following the 'eaters much this fall? I know it's early, but a couple of your pitchers are kids I know and regard highly. Cory Hamilton played locally until moving to UCI, and Jake Morton is a local kid who played with our summer teams. Great young men, good pitchers too!

My intent was not to flame but to promote discussion about the moral lines that we draw considering cruelty and animals. One persons cruelty is another persons sport. As time has changed so have the lines.

As to the Vick issue and the issue raised by the newspaper article involving the kids, I find no redeeming social value for any human being who knowingly and with forethought would do those types of things to an animal.

As to the hunting issue, 99% of all hunters are ethical, moral and compassionate outdoorsman, who care greatly for the animals they hunt. There is a segment of the population that disagrees with this view and propose the arguments I have espoused above. I don't agree with them but it was interesting to see the reaction when they were forwarded in a comparison to dogfighting.

In my former life, an allegation of animal cruelty by a kid was one of the warning signs of a troubled mind. Often mistreating animals was the first step in a troubled and dangerous life. Vick deserves what he gets. The people who are cruel to humans deserve even more, let us make sure they get it.

dedad: sorry that I hijacked thread with my silliness.

I do believe that mankind overall is made up of good intentions. Yet one man's travesty is another's delight. Does this makes sense...no. We will never understand each other, yet we must exist together.

Life is full of contradictions of convictions, what is cute to one, is dinner to another. Acuna Matata.

---------------------------------------------------

Eater Nation will survive! School doesn't start until September 27th, first offical practice is October 4th.
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(comment to self: I wonder if they got con-vick-ions?)

___

I must first say that I am not an animal lover. Nor am I an animal abuser. I don't kick cats and dogs when I encounter them. I just avoid and ignore them when I can. I am not a dog or cat owner. Nor am I a hunter. I can't stand dogs nor cats. I rarely, knowingly, will eat food in the home of someone who owns a dog or cat that lives inside. Nor when they bring food to work will I eat it. It makes me sick to my stomach when I see people kissing the mouths of dogs and cats or allowing those animals to lick them on the face. I hope that these revelations do not make me a bad person in the eyes of my fellow posters. I wasn't raised with dogs and cats and I just don't like them. I do love mankind.

Now having said that I respect the right of dog and cat lovers and owners to do anything with their animals they wish. And, there should be no comparison between the hunting and killing of animals and torturing dogs. One is legal, and in our society can be viewed as compassionate. The other is illegal and cruel

Please know that I do not approve or condone what Michael Vick is accused of doing. He committed a horrible crime. He knew that he was breaking the law and he should suffer the penalties and punishment for his crimes. I along with millions of Atlantans are very dissapointed in him.

However, I do not agree that he should be banned for life from playing football. I believe in second chances. He did not hurt nor kill a human being. If, after the two or more years he serves in prison, he is physically and mentally able to make a come back I feel that he should be allowed to do so.

Just my humble opinion.

Hey, we're back on topic, thanks to Catfish!

I have to agree with you, Catfish and Coach May, that once this rotten POS pays his debt to society, he deserved the opportunity to seek employment again in the NFL. I wouldn't pay a dime to watch him play, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have the opportunity once he's finished his prison sentence and paid any fines imposed upon him.

On the other hand, it'll be interesting to see which teams might consider hiring him. I am troubled by the criminals and borderline criminals that are already employed in professional sports, Mr. Vick is going to highlight thtat aspect of society to many millions who've been too ignorant of this fact, and that'll be some good that comes out of this unfortunate situation.

OMG,
How about BULLfighting, that's cruel and horrible to watch.

JMO.

Back to topic.

I agree with Deldad, studies show that those that torture animals like Vic is accused of (and plead guilty too) usually have some deep problems.

kudos to catfish for steering us back on topic

but w/all due respect that is one of the top 3 oddest things I have ever heard

in my 45 yrs .. ok 50 yrs .. ok, ok 56 yrs .. I have had snacks, lunches, pot-luck, tailgated & dined formaly with (I'm guessing) 10,000's of folks - - at work - at my home - at their home - from MY and/or THEIR grill, picnic table, pizza box, kitchen counter, kitchen table, or dining room table and I have never ONCE heard anything like the views expressed in your last statement

I am rather glad you brought that up Bee>, I found it quite scary myself.

But everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings.

I've seen dog and cat lovers treat their pets as though they were human. They allow them to walk over the kitchen counters. When they open their refrigerator, the pet sniffs and licks the food inside. While they are cooking or preparing food they will touch the animals without washing their hands before continuing on with the food preparation. Of course, the pet owner usually doesn't see anything wrong with that. But I do. That cat or dog is their baby. I understand that. One lady I work with will drink from the same cup as her dog. I've seen her mixing food, then give the dog a bite with the same hand and continue mixing the food without washing her hands. This is gross to me.

But, as I said, I am not a dog or cat lover. I don't see anything scary or odd about how I feel, Tiger Paw Mom and Bee. This is just one of my idiosyncrasies. We all have them. This is one of mine. I know a lot of people who feel this way.

I don't dislike dog and cat lovers and owners and rarely do they ever know that I feel this way. I would never be rude and tell someone that I would not eat their food because of their pet. I just don't eat their food and no one notices.

As I stated before, my parents didn't allow us to have pets growing up because they disliked cats and dogs. So I don't have that feeling for pets as pet lovers do. Still, I would never intentionally hurt an animal. The other morning driving out of my subdivision I killed a baby squirrel. Almost destroyed my neighbor's mail box trying to avoid hitting him. When I returned home from work he was still there. Broke my heart.

If I have offended any pet lovers, I apologize.

Catfish, no need to apoligize.
And it's not odd if you did not grow up around animals. It's normal for you.
You really do have to love animals to allow them in your home.
They are a source of comfort and also something to care for.
There not for everybody.
EH

Thanks, theEH. It is not my intention to offend anyone. But many pet lovers expect others to feel the same way about their pets as they do. And when you don't, you're odd or scary. Oh, well. I've been called worse.

Catfish I'm a dog lover, And he lives in my house.
all 100lbs of him. So I guess you will not be over for dinner

I will agree with you on the dog licking face thing.

THIS IS WHY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIk3UDvNZB8

Good peaple, think before you let this happen!!

TripleDad...We wouldn't have to have dinner. We could play cards and maybe drink a beer, watch the game.....

Catfish,

Nothing wrong with you at all. Some people love snakes and like to have "snakes" for pets. I don't like snakes! Wouldn't feel very comfortable in someone's house if they had snakes crawling around.

Bet there are others just like me who didn't grow up with snakes all over the house.

Whatta ya' say guys...do we let this Cat dude in 'da game?


Ok...yer in. Care for chips?

UM, SORRY, ALREADY ATE THE CHIPS! IN FACT, ATE ALL OF IT! I NEED A TUMS.

Yeah TripleDad...you've put on a few...anymore I can't even get you to look at the tailgate let alone jump up on it. It breaks my heart,but since you can't get in, I gotta' sell Ol' Blue...this Studebaker is just too much for you.


.
.
.
.
.
Maybe we can get you around on this lowboy?

I CAN DEAL WITH THE NEW RIDE...JUST DON'T TAKE MY FAVORITE BEVERIDGE AWAY

HA, ha, ha! That just cracks me up...oatmeal!...oatmeal is for losers!

Wow...That's a big ole cat! Looks kind of crazy, too!

LISTEN UP! I LIKE TO NIP INTO MY FAT PALS OATMEAL BREWSKIES NOW AND THEN. NOW WHO YOU CALLING A LOSER??

YOU WANT SOME OF ME?? BEEEEOTCH?

HEY I LIKE THE OATMEAL BREW TOO?

SET ME DOWN BOSS, I NEEDS TO TAKE CARE SOME NEIGHBORHOOD BIDNESS!!!

Quit it! You guys are making me sick. If you promise to stop posting these monstrosities I will write on the chalkboard 100 times:

I will never say I don't like cats and dogs again.

I will never say I don't like cats and dogs again.

I will never say I don't like cats and dogs again.

Catfish,
There are some things I agree with you, we have a cat, being a dog lover I couldn't stand cats. I hated cats. In 1995 I inherited a cat, he is the best,cats are very clean, he never goes outside and is well behaved, and gets the boot off of counters and tables with the water bottle if he gets curious. No cat hair anywhere in my home. We also have a granddog that comes to visit often and he behaves better than some people who visit. Pets fill voids in people lives and bring comfort and joy ti thousands. No one is knocking you because you do not like them.

BTW, locking lips with your pet is not cool, IMO.

However, sometimes some things are better left unsaid, stating you didn't like cats and dogs would have been enough to get the point across. Stating you wouldn't eat in a person's home or share food with anyone at work who has an animal was just a little out of the ordinary and strange for me.

Hope that you understand that.

And BTW, IMO, no player should ever be allowed to play professional sports when found guilty (he plead guilty) for any henious crime such as this. Not just Vick, but anyone. JMO.

wow those are some pics

some cultures would offer them a very special place at the dinner table

Tiger Paw Mom...As you know, I've always been honest with my fellow posters. I've always shared my feeling and opinions about the various topics we've discussed here for the past 5 going on 6 years now. This is the way I feel about cats and dogs. And I wasn't offended because you thought my statement was scary or strange. You know my skin is thicker than that.

I guess this could serve as a good example of why there are so many opinions about what Vick did and what his punishment should be. Opinions about him are all over the map because we all have different experiences and attitudes about animals. Dog lovers are outraged. Those who don't care for dogs are asking why such a stiff penalty.

The fact is Vick knowingly broke the law and definitely should be punished. We will have to agree to disagree about Vick's future. I believe that when he serves his time and pays all of his fines, he should be allowed to come back. Belichick cheated on the field of play and was not even suspended, at least not yet. In fact, his contract was extended last night. So he gets a bonus.

For people who are not dog lovers, that's sort of hard to explain or understand.

TPM, you are one of my favorite posters. I'll never let a dog come between us.