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I Need Advice

S sloroller10+ posts
Hello all, I have been reading for over 4 years, first post.

I am not one of the parents that meddle, criticize, interfere etc. Once my son reached high school I sit back and let him do his thing. My son is a sophomore, he started varsity at 2nd base, first time playing 2nd, was the lead-off hitter, second on the team in batting average the last time he mentioned it to me. The high school season is over. He was asked by one of the parent/coach about playing legion ball this summer. My son has played shortstop for the past 5 years, he asked would he get a chance to play short and was told that the team was already loaded with infielders and that he might have to play mostly outfield. My son respectfully declined the invitation. He was asked several other times about it by the parent/coach and by his high school teammates. He was going to try out with a 16u team but decided the competition might be better with the legion team and the fact that they were scheduled to play 60 games so he decided to give it a try.

Here is my concern. The first practice was last night. My son was told to play 3rd. Did well. During the high school season my son played shortstop maybe a total of 6 innings when the regular shortstop pitched, 6 ground balls, no errors. After practice last night I went to get the paper work that needed to be filled out. The coach/parent told me that my son did good at 3rd, he has no range, no speed, but 3rd is more reactionary and he thinks he will do good there. The coach/parent walked away. My son came up and I told him what the coach had just said and he said "he told me the same thing, how can he say that when he has never really seen me play short, I was the second fastest on the team and he is making an assumption based on nothing." I told him to go talk to him and tell him just what you told me. We did. The coach/parent went on to say that "his oldest boy had range and that so and so has range, the other boys can get to balls hit up the middle that you cant get to, that's a fact."

Again this conversation took place after the very first practice. My son played at 3rd the whole time.
My question is this. Would you pay $640 to play with a coach/parent who basically destroyed my son's enthusiasm, not his confidence, the very first day.

TRhit, RJM, PGstaff,I would really like to hear from you guys and everyone else. When I was driving home last night I knew that this would be the topic of my first ever post. I need good rational advice.
Last edited {1}
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BBkazeBBkaze10+ posts
sloroller said: Again this conversation took place after the very first practice. My son played at 3rd the whole time.
My question is this. Would you pay $640 to play with a coach/parent who basically destroyed my son's enthusiasm, not his confidence, the very first day.
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________

It sounds like you have a very fine son who has enough potential to be asked to join the American Legion program.

That usually means that your son is one of the better talented ballplayers because Legion ball is highly competitive.

That been said, you should not take offense at a coaches opinion of where he sees putting your son for a summer.

It looks to me like he has veteran ballplayers in key positions that he has confidence in from his experience with them.

Your son would be breaking into a new situation and must earn a degree of respect based upon his performance at the Legion level.

Don't take it for granted that your son will not struggle going up in competition. The game is faster, pitchers throw much harder and the "junk" is much more precise.

If your son does well at 3B maybe in the next two seasons he will develop enough to get a chance to play also as a SS.

JMO
Last edited by BBkaze
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
From time to time you are going to run into folks (coaches) who have a different view of where your guy stacks up and where he is most playable. When my son first tried out for a high level 18U "scout" team, he was offered a spot in left field. He had been all-area 3rd baseman for two years running and had always played in the infield. The team was very competetive and although I believed that my son could play short, or third, it was not my call.
For us the old adage of "if you can hit, you will play" has always been and continues to be my son's primary motivation. With that in mind the main question became, "how many at bats will I get"?
Hitting is the key to advancing. If you can get the at bats with this team and the competition is good, do not let a coach's opinion of where you fit get in your way. Use the opportunity to become a better hitter!
By the way, my son is a college freshman in a good florida JUCO program and has been the starting shortstop for every game and did not sit one inning. He also hit in either the 3 or 4 hole every game and made an all conference team.
So just because this coach believes your son is an outfielder means nothing. Take the opportunity and develop your hitting. That is the skill that will take you to the next level.
playfairplayfair500+ posts
Nope, I would not pay $640.00 for my kid not to have a good time over the summer.

Try-out for the other team, do a showcase kind of event or two, tell the parent/coach that an opportunity came up for your son to improve his range and you want to work on improving over the summer.

Mostly just make ball a fun thing not a stressful thing.


Now, here is my next piece of advice: Make sure your son can play several different positions on the field. Not just his favorite. You want to make sure your kid fits in on any team he ever wants to participate on.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
EXAMPLE:

We had a young man with us a dfew years back who played outfield for us. He was an All Star MIF on his HS team

We were set in the infield so he asked him to play OF because we wanted him in the lineup---he did it --no questions asked


Where is he now? He is the starting SS on one of the top ranked Division II Programs in the area

The more positions you can play the better off you are especially if you are a good hitter
S sloroller10+ posts
Thank you all for your responses. My son was just insulted and to tell you the truth I laughed about it late last night. I told him that outfield is not the same as LL ball, you will get the ball hit to you. I have also told him that you have to earn your way, nothing will just be handed to you. I finally got him to laugh when I told him, just make sure the ball never gets to the shortstop. I asked him does he want to be on the field? Then go where they tell you. He played on a 18u college scout team in the fall after just turning 16 in Sept. He can hold his own. I just needed you guys to calm me down and help me think. I just want him to enjoy the summer like playfair mentioned.
S sloroller10+ posts
BBkaze, you are right. We take nothing for granted. He has to understand seniority and what all comes with it. Plus, just being a sophomore he has plenty of time.
Someone from the Major League Scouting Bureau handed me a card and gave him a questionnaire to fill out, naturally I asked what does he need to work on. The scout said just keep playing and working hard. I will have to remind him of that when I get home.
T theEH1,000+ posts
sloroller, welcome.
Colleges are full of ex SS, learn every position.
If you can hit, they will find a spot in the line-up.

Player on son's college team, became defensive player of the year.
Played SS this his senior year. before that he played 2nd or 3rd or road the bench.
Learn to handle adversity early on and your way ahead of the game.
good luck.

EH
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
If I understand this correctly, the Legion coach is a parent of a player on your son's HS team. If so, he likely has had many opportunities to observe and compare the players, and he is not "making an assumption based on nothing." A coach doesn't need to see a player at a particular infield position in order to form an opinion about a player's ability to play that position.

The coach may be right or wrong in his assessment. Assuming he is wrong, it's a good opportunity for your son to overcome a coach's mistaken impression. In fact, if the coach's comments affect his desire and willingness to play, it may be a signal that baseball isn't very important to him. I hope that once the emotional reaction subsides, your son can see it as mostly positive: after all, what's wrong with playing third base? Or any other position? It surely will help him develop as a player.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
S sloroller10+ posts
3FingeredGlove,
You are correct he is a parent of one of the high school players. This did not dampen my son's desire to play, it actually increased his determination. It was the "he has no range, no speed" comments that bothered him the most. He takes extreme pride in his glove. When I ask him how did the game go, he talks defense first, hitting second. There is nothing wrong with 3rd, all of his favorite players, except for a couple, play in the outfield.
I knew I came to the right place with my question.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
sloroller - welcome to the hsbbweb!

Since my son is an infielder, I have encountered these types of evaluations in the past.

I have noticed in the past that if my son played the same position as one of the coach's son's or one of the coach's son's friends, that it was possible (not always but possible) to get an evaluation like this. I remember a guy telling me when my son was about 12 years old that he would never have enough range to be a high school shortstop so he was moving him to second base. Of course, his son played shortstop. I kept my mouth closed and saw that guys kid's career end after 9th grade. My son turned out to be one of if not the best shortstop his high school ever produced. He holds the all-time fielding percentage record at the school. He has also has been a shortstop at a top 20 D1 baseball team and holds his college's all-time record for ss assists in a season. I guess he at least had a little bit of range?

When my son was growing up, I let my own eyes be the judge. When people tried to move him to other positions (or tell me otherwise) including centerfield, we kept our mouths closed and thanked God in silence that he continued to hit. Hitting is the key for non-pitchers imho. I'll be honest though, I would get miffed when I knew in my heart he was the best shortstop on the field. Looking back, it was not worth the aggravation it caused stewing about it.

At some point, you have to decide if they like your son enough to let him hit. If so, then the training at 3rd base will be good for him. The easiest way for a college or high school player to break into the lineup is to be able to play second, ss, and third as it triples your opportunites to play. My son has played all three in college and it has been a huge blessing for him. Versatility is a blessing not a curse imho. Embrace it as long as he gets to hit. You might also tell that coach to keep his opinions to himself if you and your son happen to disagree. Every year, highly paid MLB scouts and executives make mistakes on much older players in the first round of the draft. No way can some youth coach have all the answers before kids have even come close to developing imho.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by sloroller:

Would you pay $640 to play with a coach/parent who basically destroyed my son's enthusiasm, not his confidence, the very first day.



I would pay twice that amount to give my sons the opportunity to perform on the field - and make the coach eat his words.

That is a big part of the whole experience. It is what makes alot of it challenging - and fun.

Tell your son:

When they say "you cant" - run them over.
After you are finished - run them over again just to emphasize the point.

Then - go home, get ready for the next game and hope you do it again tomorrow.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
Great posts, great points.

When my son, who had played SS in pretty much every game between age 6 and 17, transferred to a new school with a highly-rated team, the coach put him at 3B. My son had never played an inning of 3rd base before and was perplexed. Meanwhile, my husband and I were upset that SS was played by a kid who booted the ball almost every game. We felt like our son was under-utilized at 3rd base and, like Cleveland Dad, we were miffed.

Compared to the SS, my son got relatively few chances at 3rd base, but he mastered his new position. This came in very handy this year, when he began his college baseball career. He was able to start at 3B for a few games when the 3rd baseman was injured.

Posters are right -- the more positions you master, the better. Versatility will only help him.

Two other things to consider: (1) perhaps your son is the only player with a strong enough arm to throw across the infield; (2) a sportswriter once told me, "Mistakes at short are singles. Mistakes at third are doubles and triples." Perhaps the coach recognizes your son's potential to save crucial runs.

Most importantly, heed the comments of Cleveland Dad, which are true in my son's case also:

quote:
Looking back, it was not worth the aggravation it caused stewing about it.


Best wishes to your son as he begins his Legion Ball season!
playfairplayfair500+ posts
quote:
Of course, his son played shortstop.



I have only held firm on a couple of self imposed rules regarding my son and club baseball.

1) Never join a club team that has a dad/coach of a kid that plays the same position of my kid's primary position. (Actually, we are very selective of any team that has dads involved at all....we have done it but the coach/dad had to be bomb and not have a catcher kid)

2) Never take lessons (batting, hitting, pitching whatever) from a person that coaches(in any capacity) for a hs team in our hs league/area division.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
Except for the big boppers at 1st & left field, I would guess that a lot of college players played SS during youth years.

My opinion is to play where the coach puts you and show him you can handle that position, and most importantly hit. As many others have said, if you can hit they will play you. And I agree, versatility is a good thing, a very good thing.

Also, a lot of things change in HS baseball from year to year. Don't burn any bridges.

Good luck.
F fsmjunior100+ posts
My son is also a Soph and is playing Legion Ball this summer as well. He has told me he will play anywhere, as long as he can play on the "A" team.

They will travel this weekend for their first tournament. He told me this morning the advantage of being so young on the team (4 returning College Freshman) is that he will likely bat in the 9 hole. He just laughed and said he can't wait to see all those fastballs in the 9 hole.

I got a kick out of that.

IMO make the most of being a young player on an older team and enjoy every minute of it.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by fillsfan:
Except for the big boppers at 1st & left field, I would guess that a lot of college players played SS during youth years.
Good luck.


On my sons college team....EVERY MIF was a HS shortstop...

My son was recruited as a SS...

But he played....

Freshman Year- Backed up SS and played some 2B
Sophmore Year- Third Base, SS and 2B
Junior Year-Third Base and First Base
Senior Year- First Base and Catcher

The needs of the team change with each graduation, and the dynamics of the team change with every recruiting class....if you can hit they will find a way to keep you in the lineup...
rocketmomrocketmom100+ posts
The same thing happened to my friend's son; although no one was criticizing his play, HS coach put him at third for some reason (maybe he was thinking like the coach InfieldDad mentioned...). The kid has the best range, actions, glove, hands and arm I think I've ever seen in person. He played third all through high school, moved back to short at DII school, and will probably be drafted soon!
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
quote:
ball is not about the W/L record. In fact, it's really to allow the players to enjoy the game without all the trophy hysteronics.


Like others have posted, chill and enjoy the summer as long as he is enjoying it. Summer is the time to work on new stuff. There is a lot more to properly playing the outfield than meets the eye. My son went from 3rd to OF this season. He has thrown 4 guys out at the plate with three of them game changing plays.

Also many times the position players end up in has as much to do with who is ahead of them in the program.
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
sloroller,

I guess I am (and was) a little different from your son. I would play with the team and take the 3B position. Then, I would work my butt off to show the coach that he was wrong in his initial assessment. IF, he didn't come to this realization, I would still have made myself into a very good 3B, which would help me in college.
S sloroller10+ posts
Picked my son up from practice last night and asked him how did it go. He said good, he played 3rd, short, and 2nd. He told me after practice the Head Coach, not the coach/parent, talked to him and said that he understood my son wanted to play short and he will get a chance, but in all of his years of coaching he thinks that he might be in the top 3 of 3rd basemen that he has ever seen. "Dad, we need to work on 3rd base moves." What a difference a day makes.
S sloroller10+ posts
Redbird5
It was me that was hesitant about paying the fee, not my son. He wants to play and will play. I was just taken back by the comments. Give me you money but your son ain't this or that and never will be. I knew I was biased in my perception of the situation, that is why I came here. I knew that everyone would give me an honest opinion of the circumstances.
My son has been challenged like this before, and like yourself, set out to prove them wrong. He is of that mindset now.
I have read many of your posts. What advice can you give about playing 3rd?
quillgirlquillgirl100+ posts
My son is one of two catchers on his HS team, and has been the starter since mid-season of his freshman year (he is a rising senior now.) He never plays another position on his HS team, and sits out only when injured. On his summer team, his is one catcher of 3. There is a rotation among the catchers, so bench time is inevitable. Luckily my son only sat out part of every 5th game last year and was courtesy runner during those he sat. He played LF/CF when not catching. (Speed and batting probably are what kept him in the game.)

He actually enjoyed playing OF because it was something different, challenging, and an opportunity to improve his skills at a position he never plays during the HS season. Look at OF as an opportunity, not a punishment or mistake. An incompetent OF will kill you at higher levels of competition because the ball often goes out there! Tell your son to make himself valuable in multiple ways: at the plate, running the bases, in the OF, and hopefully in time, the IF too.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by sloroller:
Hello all, I have been reading for over 4 years, first post.

I am not one of the parents that meddle, criticize, interfere etc. Once my son reached high school I sit back and let him do his thing. My son is a sophomore, he started varsity at 2nd base, first time playing 2nd, was the lead-off hitter, second on the team in batting average the last time he mentioned it to me. The high school season is over. He was asked by one of the parent/coach about playing legion ball this summer. My son has played shortstop for the past 5 years, he asked would he get a chance to play short and was told that the team was already loaded with infielders and that he might have to play mostly outfield. My son respectfully declined the invitation. He was asked several other times about it by the parent/coach and by his high school teammates. He was going to try out with a 16u team but decided the competition might be better with the legion team and the fact that they were scheduled to play 60 games so he decided to give it a try.

Here is my concern. The first practice was last night. My son was told to play 3rd. Did well. During the high school season my son played shortstop maybe a total of 6 innings when the regular shortstop pitched, 6 ground balls, no errors. After practice last night I went to get the paper work that needed to be filled out. The coach/parent told me that my son did good at 3rd, he has no range, no speed, but 3rd is more reactionary and he thinks he will do good there. The coach/parent walked away. My son came up and I told him what the coach had just said and he said "he told me the same thing, how can he say that when he has never really seen me play short, I was the second fastest on the team and he is making an assumption based on nothing." I told him to go talk to him and tell him just what you told me. We did. The coach/parent went on to say that "his oldest boy had range and that so and so has range, the other boys can get to balls hit up the middle that you cant get to, that's a fact."

Again this conversation took place after the very first practice. My son played at 3rd the whole time.
My question is this. Would you pay $640 to play with a coach/parent who basically destroyed my son's enthusiasm, not his confidence, the very first day.

TRhit, RJM, PGstaff,I would really like to hear from you guys and everyone else. When I was driving home last night I knew that this would be the topic of my first ever post. I need good rational advice.
My son was always the shortstop. He's a better shortstop than the varsity shortstop (in the view of many others). The coach decided he would play third instead. I asked my son how he felt about playing third. My son's outlook is "any position on the field is better than any seats on the bench." Your son's should be the same.

Legion ball in your area may be very challenging. There may be some very talented eighteen and nineteen year old players on the team. Relative to that level of play and the talent on the team, the coach's assessment may have been correct.

When I played Legion our boundaries included three high schools. A lot of high school starters didn't make the team. Just because your son starts at his high school doesn't mean he's guaranteed to play the same position in Legion. It may have been an accomplishment and respect for his abilities and future potential just to make the team.

I know a kid who was forced off short in high school and travel by a more talented shortstop (his brother). Both will be playing at top ACC program.

It's not what position you play. It's if you earn a position to play. It beats chasing foul balls from the bench.

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