I say ban them for life

Agreed. But it won't happen because of the way things work now a days. Just look at Kobe Bryant for example.

It's become a thug sport and this mind-set is encouraged in the youth culture through music, movies, and improper 'role models'. At least Charles Barkley had the guts to say it: "I ain't no role model." To play the devil's advocate, though, the fans share the same attitude of thuggery as the players nowadays. They shout things that are best not shouted. Take it as a sign of the times........sadly.

I agree the players were way out of line and should be severely punished. But how about the fans. I know the police are looking at tape trying to see what happened. It will probably be very difficult to identify the fans. How about taking their pictures from the tapes and putting them on the front page of the Detroit paper and asking the public for help. I would even include every one of the fans that were throwing things on the players as they we trying to go back through the exit to the locker room.

You know the players will be punished, but what else should be done.

First step - identify the fans
Second step - arrest each fan caught on the court
Third step - ban the other fans identified from attending future Pistons games for at least a year

Someone needs to step forward and say, "Fans you step out of line, you get punished too."

All the rioting not withstanding in my mind any fan who went on the court was fair game

And what about those throwing beer, chairs etc?

Yes the players bear a portion of the blame but the fans had better not get off without fines and jail sentences

I think this is more the fans fault then the players. It started as a normal Ron Artest fight(they happen a lot if you're not big basketball fan) until he got hit with a full cup of beer, in some cases that counts as assult. If some guy threw a cup of beer at you while you were working you wouldn't be to happy with him would you? I still think that the players were very worng and should be punished, but this indefinite suspension is ****. Ben Wallace getting suspended is ridiculous, he was only trying to peel players off of fans now one of the most hard working guys in the league isn't playing for trying to help.

A year's suspension, minimum. If Ron Artest wanted some time off to work on his music, this is a stupid way to get it. I agree with TR that any fan that comes onto the field/court is fair game, but if you go into the stands as a player, then you are fair game, and they (the fans) should have kicked their a**. cheers.

Anyone have a problem with the Artest flopping up on the scorer's table and
lying back spreadeagle with his arms behind his back? I've watched the commentators say over and over again that he did the right thing not retaliating
and just lying down out of the way. WRONG. If he really wanted to get out of the way he should have gone back to his bench and sat down. What he did was a
typical F Y to the Pistons and their fans and basically invited some crazy to take a shot at him-and they did.

The idiot fan had no business throwing the cup and Artest was a bigger idiot for
going after him.

As long as we sports fan cheer players on by hooting and hollering when they
go into their stupid gyrations after making plays that they are being paid to
make(hanging onto rims after dunks, glaring up into the stands after a three point shot and pounding their chests, dancing around a quarterback after making
a sack, standing over a receiver after laying him out with a helmet to helmet
blow) it's only going to get worse.

I never saw Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Julius Erving ever feel
the need to "show off". What has happened to class in athletes? I know I'm
from the old school and probably going to get blasted by the "new breed" on this
but too bad-its too much about Me,Me,Me anymore and I don't see an end in sight
unless some drastic changes are made.

Now I feel better.

Moc1,

quote:

---

As long as we sports fan cheer players on by hooting and hollering when they
go into their stupid gyrations after making plays that they are being paid to
make(hanging onto rims after dunks, glaring up into the stands after a three point shot and pounding their chests, dancing around a quarterback after making
a sack, standing over a receiver after laying him out with a helmet to helmet
blow) it's only going to get worse.

---

I'm with you.....

Let the blasting start...........

I just read about this in the paper. I stopped watching pro basketball a few years ago, and one of the reasons was the attitude of the athletes. The only way to get my point accross is to not watch any games. They can shut the whole league down for all I care. I will continue to watch high school basketball.

Moc1

Well said

I don't like to watch pro basketball. They allow the stars too much freedom. Travelling, hard fouling, and fighting. What happened in Detroit is embarrassing! The fans are to blame too, but NO WAY should a professional athlete go into the stands just to retaliate. And where was the police? Lots of blame to go around. I currently am coaching a church high school basketball team and NO WAY will I allow my players to lose control. They sit on the bench and watch (next to me) when they lose control. C'mon, lets keep sports in perspective! If Artest had the proper restraint to not go into the stands then this would have turned out much differently. If I'm the owner (yah right!) I think it would be the end for Artest. He may be talented but he's a loaded cannon. Most times in life we'll all be put in difficult situations and it's how we CHOOSE to react to things that makes the difference. Shame on anyone who says what Artest did was OK. NO way do I want my kids to retaliate like that! There were many other things Artest could have done instead of making it much worse. Artest chose wrong and made it worse. Much worse. As parents, we can't possibly condone this action. The way the ESPN commentators took the side of the players was extremely embarrassing too! This is so simple. We're Americans throwing punches at each other over what??? Someone's got to be strong enough to back down instead of escalating the situation. Hooray for all the fans who were there and did NOT participate in the craziness. I saw many fans scared, afraid, in disbelief and crying!!! Shame on ALL those who were involved.

News is out... Artest to receive 30 game suspension. Others 20 game suspension....

Hey 123KMom - I like that avatar!

David Stern has encouraged the circus atmosphere of the NBA for a long long time.

He adopted the WWF model many years ago - and it has worked beyond anyone's imagination.
Huge financial success - like MLB - for the participants - with fans getting less quality and paying more money.

Anything goes - and when it gets out of control - he condemns it - hands out a fine or two - and then lets it go again. That what he does - and that is a very defined business strategy he has pursued for almost 2 decades.

Stern sells the NBA for what it is - a circus.
Smart man - made alot of money - unfortunately - he ruined the game of basketball.

He will retire when he sees the three card monty game he created and fostered is over.
IMO

Ban the beer.Stop going to the games and paying to see the games on pay TV. this is no longer worth watching. Im tired of the undisiplined, arrogant,phoney,spoiled athelete. The more they get paid the worse their behavior becomes. Hurt them in there pockets. 30 games for Artest, big deal, what a joke. he wanted time off so he could do his rap. way to go Commissioner.

Just listened to David Stern's statement...

He is acting like a complete idiot. Focusing a major part of his statement on the rogue fans instead of the a$$inine, out-of-control players. The NBA is on its way down the tubes. The penalties are way too light. He has always been too light...on Latrell Sprewell and others. The NBA deserves what it will get.

For the first time, as a Cincinnati Reds fan, I will say that Pete Rose got what he deserved. It is now clear to me. Thank you baseball for banning a player when he ruins it for the fans.

Shame on the NBA.

I can't go to hockey games. I don't like the fights that alot of people say that is a "part of the game", and even what they go for.

Course I am the one that cried at my first and last Nascar race, saw a wreck, fire, man get out alive, knew this was not the sport for me.

Football... love those pants, don't mind the physicalness of the sport, but cringe on hard hits as I think most do.

Basketball, used to like to watch it, but seems to me to be more and more of a "thug sport/mentality" would watch M*A*SH* reruns instead.

Baseball.... my true love. Even with the faults and heartaches. I can only hope it doesn't fall into more of this junk than it has.

There is no excuse for a player to go into the stands. That is why there is security. I have no idea why anyone would pay money to see a bunch of thugs play a game. Thats all alot of these guys are. The NBA is going to go out of business if they dont clean up there sport. But kind of hope it does. Maybe then they will clean up the pathetic situation they have on their hands. How in the world they can say they felt attacked. They were the ones doing all the attacking. And what about all the players coming out in their defense. What a joke

Artest got more than 30 games... He's out for the entire season.

Artest Suspended for remainder of season
Jackson 30 games
Oneal 25 games
Wallace 6 games
Johnson 5 games

4 other players 1 game each

Moc1...agreed...Artest on the scorer's table was taunting the situation, pure and simple. Reminds me of Rodman...creating havoc, then walking around with that Charlie Brown attitude..."why's everybody always picking on me?" I'm only surprised this has not happened sooner and more often than it has. What really irked me the most though was the "round table of ESPN analysts that included Steven A. Smith and John Saunders...they had that "circle the wagons" mentality, with Smith repeatedly mentioning that he would be interested to see how Stern would respond, along with the players' association...considering the FANS were the biggest problem. Saunders did the analogy of what he would do if he were walking down the street and someone threw beer on him ...and then even stating that he believed Artest had a valid reason for going into the stands. Those comments were repulsive to me as I sat and watched all the replays.
Oh, by the way, Wallace's "small" suspension was probably only for the huge shove that started the fracas...things were looking to be getting close to control until Artest made his mad dash...several rows into the stands...and, from most indications, went after the wrong guy.
O.K. Saunders...someone splashes you from behind on main street (which you are not being charged $150 to walk down, by the way)...should you then feel valid in turning around and then start flailing away at anyone in the vicinity?
ESPN should apologize for those senseless remarks by their "experts".

Where I work we have a very simple rule, if you fight, you're fired. You never get to come back. If someone were to come into my workplace and start a fight, we would prosecute him and he would become a convicted felon. It's a really simple rule but really effective. I'll but most of you fellow posters have a similar arrangement where you work and have no complaints about it. You may say that I am over simplifing the problem but I disagree, we give our pro athletes way too much leeway in these matters. Fire them, fire all of them and that would really send a message. No suspensions, just see ya later, adios and don't let the door hit you in rear on the way out. Anyhting short of that shows that leagues are not totally committed to solving the problem.

i agree with you 100%

HSDad,
The player thugs are all protected by the thugs in the union and to be fired is not an option. The best thing about the situation is the union is for the most part speechless and unwilling to fully back any of those involved.

I think that we should take the Rollerball approach. Give each of the players steel goves with spikes on them and let them go after each other!

Who ever is left wins the game.

I have never had a problem with players beating the **** out of someone that goes onto the field or the court. Years ago Mike Curtis of the Colts crushed a fan that ran onto the football field. There have been several instances where fans have gone onto the field and the players have taken care of business. The same goes for players leaving the field and going into the stands. The people in those stands paid to be there. Does that give them the right to throw stuff at players, no. Thats why they have security to take care of them. Artest was threatened by a cup of beer? Give me a break. Fans dont go on the field or court and players dont go in the stands. What really upsets me is all these people coming to their defense and saying that they would have done the same thing. What if they were in the stands with a young child and some nut comes up into the stands and starts throwing punches? These guys have so much money they think they can do whatever they want to do. The bottom line is they are thugs that just happen to have a whole lot of money. I would love nothing more than to see the fans boycott the NBA and hurt them where it counts. Players owners the whole lot. The owners are a joke as well. They dont care about class at all. Quite frankly I dont watch the NBA and wouldnt go to a game it was free.

I haven't attended an NBA game since Larry Byrd left the NBA ... I've watched a steady deterioration of the players behavior over the years. I still "followed" it some on TV until about 6-7 years ago and then it just got too ugly to even watch.

I heard an NBA Coach, in an interview state that the actions of the NBA players was simply a reflection of society in general. I don't know how he could have it so backwards. The actions of the supposed "role models" in the NBA have begun appearing in society in general, but they, unfortunately, are the trend setters.

Ron Artest got about what he deserved. You don't give a "life-sentence" for throwing punches. Anything lighter than the remainder of the season shows you aren't serious.

But ... something needs to be done about the violent actions of the players that occurs ON THE COURT. Players state they have the right to violently react if they (or their "game") is
DISRESPECTED.

That's not a word, it's a way of life. The NBA won't get it's act together until all forms of violent behavior on the court are met with stiff penalties and costly fines. A fine of 10,000 to a player making 8,000,000 isn't meaningful. It's like making him pay a parking ticket. A fine of 50,000 is like making him pay a speeding ticket. They need to be STIFF and rigorously enforced. Throw a punch, even in retaliation, loose 100 G's + salary for 5 games serving your suspension.

At this point, in that badly broken situation, it still might not turn the corner, but it would be a start in the right direction.

MLB needs to address this situation with the players union before it becomes a problem, because it's spreading like a virus from the NBA.

It may be the beginning to middle of the long slow decline of the NBA. They broadcast the All-Star game on TNT, when it used to be on CBS every year. Don't be shocked when it follows the NHL in 15-20 years.

justbaseball,

You said "I say the players who went into the stands after the fans should be GONE. Done!
Never to return!"

Ty Cobb too?

Summer - Yes, if a baseball player goes after a fan in the stands in the manner that Ty Cobb supposedly did, get rid of him. Even if its Ty Cobb Jr.

Does anyone know what the rules are in MLB as far as fans running on the field. The attack on the 1st base coach last year by the father and son hit a little too close to home....
I am wondering if the players or other coaches would be fined or suspended for taking care of business in a circumstance like that?

Has anyone else noticed the double standard being allowed by these so-called "ANALYSTS"? How can they sit there and praise Artest for not fighting back at Wallace, yet then say he was justified going into the stands and fighting? I dont know, maybe I feel that being SHOVED IN THE THROAT by a man your size right in front of you is more of a reason to fight than getting hit by a beer cup from an anonymous fan. Artest, in my opinion, is a coward. He backed down from Ben Wallace and attacked a man half his size who didnt even throw the beer!! All these "ANALYSTS" obviously feel he was more provoked by the beer cup than by getting hit in the face with a fist, doesnt that seem wrong somehow?
Any Thoughts on that?

Bullfighter I think the sense to the situation (not the anyalysts sense of it) is that Artest respects, if not fears Wallace and would not respond to big Ben, knowing he'd get his kester kicked.

But the fan, any fan, these players have no respect for the fan (and probably vice versa) so Artest goes beserk because some water is thrown on him. His going into the stands was ridiculous. going after the wrong fan showed it to be all the more ridiculous.

In any setting the law only allows you a "reasonable" response. Beating someone for throwing water at you is not a reasonable response in any situation, but it comes back to Artest and others having no respect for fans. That coupled with this constant mind set of "manhood" and perceived challenges to that sets these players loose. they know no bounds of reason, especially since throughout their lives, as pampered elite athletes, they learn no reason or boundries.

while in no way excusing Artest or the other players, who deserve serious punishment, it turns out that the fan who apprently threw the cup/liquid on Artest has 3 DUI convictions, an illegal weapons possession charge and other items on his "record". With that, I understand when/where a player could feel threatened and act, but Artest was not in a situation of threat laying on the scorer's table. The only situation of threat he would have been in is if he had decided to take on Ben Wallace. Having not had the courage to do that, he had to prove his "manhood" by attacking the poor innocent fan who was half his size.

the nba pampers its athletes far too much and I'm quite convinced they could replace them all with a little recruiting off the playgrounds of New York, Chicago, LA, Philly etc. and few fans would know the difference. these players have it too good and don't know it. Just yesterday Artest gave an interview to supposedly apologize and it turned into a promo for the CD he just produced.

We as fans can only put our money where our mouth is. I haven't been to an NbA game since 1986. don't remember the last dodger game I went to and in LA we've got no pro football. I'll take the college games any time. Artest, Kobe and the rest

I know this will smack of conspiracy theories, but the Bullwinkle is thinking (not common) out of the box on this.

What if this whole mess began with Artest hiring someone to throw beer/water on him?

At the start of the season Artest wanted time off to promote his new Rap CD by Warrior Records, but was not given permission by the Pacers. Earlier this month, Artest was benched by the Pacers for having asked Pacers coach Rick Carlisle for time off to promote a hip-hop music disc. So, Artest went with the gangster attitude, hire a punk to throw beer….Artest throws the punch and gets suspended…..now he has time to promote his CD. The rest of the fight/riot was just background noise for Artest. He wanted publicity, he got it. Artest is now on most TV’s and Radio stations wearing his gear (Warrior Records) and holding up the CD, which is now available to purchase just in time for Christmas.

Exactly what Artest wanted....time off to promote his CD and give his audience the idea that he’s a bad a** gangster.

David Stern is a PR/Marketing genius.

No other commissioner of any sport even comes close.

The guy is the smoothest operator that ever lived in professional sports - bar none.

While I certainly have no problem with the punishments for the NBA players involved in this situation, I think NBA teams could strongly discourage fans from throwing anything during games by having a policy of banning fans from their arenas for throwing any kind of object because it could result in injury to other fans including children. Safety should be a major concern today because of the increased violence in society in general. Many people seem to think the price of a ticket entitles them to behave any way they want. They should get tougher on both players AND fans in my opinion.

OUBsbMom - I agree with you...BUT...David Stern needs to address his players FIRST IMO, or at least he needs to give the appearance that is his first priority. He can deal with the fans more quietly, but just as firmly in a way similar to what you propose.

I had a big problem with his statement. His point #1 was dealing with the fans. Bad PR IMO. I say, stand up, take responsibility for your players and work the fan problem in the background.

Why would you want to deal with the fans quietly. That's ridiculous. They should make examples of the fans just as they are trying to use the players to make a point. I say try to identify everyone who threw something and ban them for the rest of the year.

I think he addressed his players first by first suspending them until he made a decision, then putting the suspensions in place. I also heard they were considering putting a tunnel in leading to the visitors locker room. That sound like a great idea. Take the urge away from the idiots that sit right along the exit.