I thought I heard everything!

My wife's chiropractor uses one to treat pain.  I think he's an ethical guy so I wouldn't' discount its benefits.

 

But there is at least one other chiro in town who advertises it for weight loss. That guy I would not trust.

Just replying to the camp comment.
I have only taken my son to one showcase,
and so far one camp.   Clearly just money makers,
so I decided we go for a learning experience
or to combine with a trip to a college he would apply
to anyway, even without baseball.

Did closest relevant showcase to minimize travel costs,
though met parents from very far away.
Visiting our 2nd high academic camp, this time one
wit a sane cost.   Paid $250+? for one elite school, $60 for the next
one.  The top elite schools seem to charge up to $300/day for
1 or 2 day ($600) camps.   Given they are 1st come 1st serve,
of course it means nothing in the recruiting process.  But can be fun
to visit a campus and play on a nice field.

Also, replying to the "camp" comment.  It is not a waste of time or money if and when used correctly.  It is an opportunity to get a coach or coaches attention for the first time or for follow up.  Coaches want to see recruits multiple times.  However, you (the recruit) have to know your audience and your son's skill level.  If he is attending a PAC-12 camp without PAC-12 talent then yes I think it is a waste of time and money unless it is your first camp and you don't know any better.  If you ask the majority of folks on this board how many went to camps, I'm willing to bet you swampboy's paycheck () that more than 90% attended a camp at one time or another to get a sense of their talent level or to be recruited or both.  Camps are extremely useful information because you need to know where to to focus your time, money and energies.  Camps, showcases, travel baseball, American Legion, and high school baseball are the cost of doing business because that is where the coaches are.

 

As always, JMO.

 

As for the Cryotherapy, I probably would not send my son in for that treatment the day before he was going to pitch at a camp or showcase.  There is too much on the line during the recruiting season to try something new.   I'd opt for something more mainstream such as massage therapy if he was really sore or stiff.

 

Good luck!

 

 

People really will fall for anything.

My son went to a camp at a mid-major D1 when he was a junior.  There was a 4'8 kid there who may have been in 8th grade....wearing JEANS!!!!  

The only unusual thing my son tried was electro-magnetic therapy on his elbow.  

He injured his elbow skiing right before his senior season.  He was prescribed the usual waste of time BS you get from doctors and was going to miss his senior year.  A teammates mother is a chiro and uses this device on many athletes.  It did the trick, two treatments later the inflammation and soreness were nearly 100% gone and he played his senior year.  

I asked an assistant at a mid level D1 how often they find kids through their camp....he said 2 kids in the last 5 years.  They average about 50 kids a camp at $300 a pop.  Pretty much a sham.  

That's what I'm talkin about. My consensus regarding camps comes from comments like yours. Someone should give fenwaysouth an update! In addition to the electro-mag (which I have used) I highly recommend KT tape. I blew out a calf muscle...lot of pain and had to limp into work; put on the tape & no pain and no limp.

 

Seriously....you're going to be that guy?

 

I think you need to re-read what I said about camps because clearly you didn't get it the first time through.  Let me know if you need me to repeat it.....

 

In short the problem isn't the camp, the problem is the grandparents/parents/kid selecting camps they have no business going to...hence the ratio in your example.  Camps need to be part of a recruits overall strategy. where you know the player is at the right level to be considered.  Otherwise you are wasting your money..   

 

In my case with my three boys, we only went to one camp where my (oldest) son attended a camp (UVA) he knew he would not be recruited for but had the grades to get in regardless.. That was fine with us because we made contact with other schools who were interested and did recruit him..  

 

 

The UVA camps are worth the money even if you are not recruited. The instruction is solid, the experience is fun and the young men get a chance to see how those who are first class in their chosen endeavor still treat others as they should be treated.

 

I have been to three D1 camps. There have been players obviously recruited at each one. These were major D1 top 25 level schools. It is best to go early in the player's career if you have something to show so they can see the player more than once.

 

It is a low percentage of player's recruited at camps because it is a low percentage of players recruited period.

Well my kid is getting a bunch of camp invites.  Have yet to see an $300 versions.  Most are $75 to $150 for a day.  Workout in the morning.  Game or two in the afternoon.  

My volleyball team is "3 for 3" in wrong diagnoses from chiropractors this year. I'll take the advice from our orthopedists over the local chiropractors any day of the week. 

My sons trainer at D1 school used electro magnetic therapy this week for tendinitis and son feels a difference.  It's just a small part of a program to work on a problem. 

I saw some pretty persuasive infomercials over the past week and most convinced me - those testimonials are better, IMO, than any scientific studies.

 

So, it's crystals, a bit of copper, some machine that makes sounds I can't hear, a device that looks like a wand and hums, a couple of weirdly shaped and colored magnets, something to put over my teeth, a bracelet made up of a rare earth metal (got the necklace version thrown in for free as well as the shipping), a special pillow, a cream which makes my skin warm and tingly, and - for good measure - a hair growth tonic.  I'm good to go!

 

Placebo effect, anyone?

 

(This is all in good natured fun. If it doesn't hurt you, what's the harm except financial. Though I'd go to a recognized medical specialist while I was dabbling in alternatives.)

 

 

The point that has been made about kids going to camps that may benefit them is a great point.  A bunch of HS sophomores or Juniors who are average high school guys are not going to get interest going to a D1 camp.  The experience may be worth it for the kid, that is up to the family to determine.  Going to a JC camp or smaller school camp may be the way to go for most kids.  But whatever, if the kids and parents dont mind spending the money to get bloated appraisals and then never hear anything back in most cases, so be it. 

PEMT, pulsed electro-magnetic therapy, has been used for years.  There is science behind it.  Great at dealing with inflammation and pain.  Very good post surgery and for healing of strains, soreness and joint issues.  It has been approved and used for years in veterinary practices where the placebo effect would not exist.  There are various reasons it is not an standard treatment, just like there are reasons well accepted treatments in other areas are not FDA approved.  At any rate, it is a real thing.  

The only thing my son got from the doctor was rest, take anti inflammatories and more rest.  Doing nothing is not doing something.  This is not treatment.  When he injured his back and it was affecting his performance we took him to a doctor.  He ordered up MRI's etc, which showed nothing, second round of pictures....nothing.  So, the doctor did what doctors do, he prescribed pills to treat the symptoms of the problem, but had nothing to offer in terms of what the issue was.  Pain pills and muscle relaxers.  Worked for a bit, then the issue came back.  I finally said forget the Dr and took him to a physical therapists/trainer I know.  He had him diagnosed and working on stuff (stretching, massage, resistance) that had him feeling better in about 20 minutes.  After 3 days a week for 3 weeks with PT he was good to go.  The doctor had nothing to offer but pills and more pictures that would have shown nothing.  

Doctors have a very important place of course.  A serious injury I am going to a doctor first.  A serious illness, going to the doctor.  Anything that is performance related, stiff ness, pain, movement issues, sports related stuff I am going to the PT first.  

As for "alternative" treatments, a person just needs the ability to have a BS detector (this goes for accepted medicine as well), the ability to research and read a little bit and they can make good choices.  For people that dismiss things immediately I will leave them to the cave men putting ice packs on elbows and going for a jog.  

If it makes you feel better fenway I understood your point.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. Unless the school has been seriously recruiting your son and this is a way to speak to them about an offer, spending money to travel to programs because this is where your player thinks he wants to play for is wasting your time and money. 

 

This of course excludes the smaller programs or other programs close to home. 

 

You have added such value and advice to this site over the years, it really bothers me when I see something posted like this.

 

I do understand why so many people who over great perspective don't show up anymore.

 

Two kids in 5 years?  Now that's using your camp to recruit future players for sure!

 

I shared a story about cryotherapy, which I thought was pretty radical, an asked if anyone had experience with it. It’s amazing how these discussions  morph. Then I shared a story about the benefits of KT tape, this time from personal experience and it morphs into a story about snake oil! It was not my intention to discuss the pros and cons of camps. 

But you did bring up the word camp so you did help hijack your own topic.

 

I had to chuckle with Gooseggs post, don't think for a minute that this stuff cures serious injuries. Make sure you do see a qualified medfical expert if pain persists.  

 

And thinking this stuff will actually increase velocity to get  recruited  is just plain ridiculous.

 

Take what you learn here and sit down and help educate your son and grandson on the recruiting process. 

Cryotherapy is the local or general use of low temperatures in medical therapy. Cryotherapy is used to treat a variety of benign and malignant tissue damage, medically called lesions. The term "cryotherapy" comes from the Greek cryo (κρύ&omicron meaning cold, and therapy (θεραπεί&alpha meaning cure.

I think maybe some people are getting mixed up between chiropractic and cryotherapy.

Cryotherapy has helped my arthritis but not a cure.
It has its place in the treatment of pain along with ultrasound and acupuncture.

The OP was about his grandson receiving this therapy the day before he went to a camp to get rid of aches and pains to pitch with greater velocity to get an offer..is well..

       
       

Yep. Cryotherapy is kinda like icing on steroids. I'm not a scientist, but I don't think I'd recommend this as a quick fix for more velocity. Think about it. If your son is sore and he ices down, do you want him pitching again the next day?  I don't think so...

If it wasn't your intention, then you shouldn't have slammed the camps.  The fact is, the camps have a purpose.  It just depends on what purpose to your player.  if your son attends an event at a school that is over his head athletically, the purpose may be better instruction than he is used to, or it may be that it is an "Ah Hah" momemt when you and he learn that you are fishing in too deep of waters.  This in turn may shift your focus to the right schools and keep you from wasting additional time and money.

I agree. The problem is that he isn't the parent, so I am not sure he can make those decisions.

Look don't you guys get it?  Any machine that hums has to work in whatever it says it does.  I mean machines don't just hum to be humming - there is some real stuff going on there.  Also, if there really is anything to make hair grow back let me know.  I'm really tired of being aerodynamic and still being slow because of bad knees.  I want to ride a horse on the beach with my hair flowing in the wind.  

 

As for the camp issue - it's not some magical fairy place where everything works out.  You get out of it what you put into it and that takes education on your part.  Like others have said if you have D3 talent then why would you want to go to a D1 camp to get recruited.  First and foremost a camp is there to help the team make money to pay for assistant coaches.  Once you understand that then you should be prepared.  Second a camp is there to instruct on how to play better.  That's why they are teaching you things instead of showcasing.  Whether it's a one, two or three day camp it's about teaching.  Third is if you have the talent to play at their level they will notice and get interested.  After that it's still up to you - player - to keep their interest.

 

This summer I went to South Carolina's 3 day camp because my best friend's son was attending it.  The son doesn't have D1 talent (he's a sophomore now) and probably never will but it was good because he learned a lot and it confirmed a lot of what he was already being taught.  Hearing the same thing from college coaches seems to help kids understand what they are being taught in HS or travel actually works.  There were some coaches from smaller schools there so it was possible he could have developed some interest (he didn't but it was possible).  

 

Out of the 100 some kids there maybe 2 or 3 could make the roster for SC but all 100 some kids got good instruction if they listened.  Was the camp a waste of money?  Depends - if you went in thinking you were going to get a scholarship on the spot then yeah it was a waste.  If you went in thinking "hey I can get better and maybe make an impression" then no it wasn't a waste of money.

 

Quick story - there was one kid who looked to be a rising junior or senior and he was built pretty good.  His first BP at bat he goes opposite field and hits it off the wall.  Best hit of the three days.  Found out he was a freshman.  Guess who got special treatment next three days?  During the two games they had everyone started with a 1 - 1 count and three of his at bats ended in walks.  They told him to stay in there and hit.  They didn't do that for anyone else.  No idea if they are going to follow that kid but he made an impression and they wanted to see him.

 

You're crazy if you think camps are a waste of time and money.  It's up to you to know what you're getting into and how to spend your money.

Sorry to hijack the thread a smidge, but I don't understand. Why would a player do ANYTHING different the day before an important camp than he usually does?  Is that common to try to do something special the day before to get a leg up somehow?

 

I would think with the superstitious nature of baseball players the guys that were super serious about standing out at the camps would eat the same things they always ate, wear the same stuff they always wear, maybe a lucky cap, and do the same exercises they always do...zero deviation so nothing would be different in them.

 

Which is more likely, to deviate or to not deviate at all when going to an important showcase/camp/game?

Hi Coach,

Perhaps should start your own TOPIC regarding the merits of going to camps. This particular topic was about lengths parents will go in order to gain an edge. (Cryotherapy in my example). I didn't take a position on this, nor did I take a position on the pros and cons of camps. I was expressing the opinions of other members on this site,

My 2016 went to a "Scout Day" yesterday spent a good four hours doing nothing, threw 13 pitches at the end of the day, was approached by a coach  and asked to check out a campus and my 2016 can't remember the coaches name or the school!!!

His big first baseman, batted .394 last year .545 so far this year and HAS NOT REACHED OUT TO A SINGLE SCHOOL; shows why parents do what they do. !!

So which is it - a camp or a scout day?  You said camp in the OP.  

 

Look - you joined 18 days ago and have made a lot of posts.  That's great and glad you're contributing but no need to be a jerk.  You probably won't last very long on here.  This place isn't like other websites where it devolves into p***ing contests and when it does the moderators do a great job of shutting it down.  This place is way more valuable in learning baseball - skills, drills, rules, techniques, strategies, how to get to the next level etc... - than anywhere else on the internet.  That's as close to fact as you can get.

 

If you'll read around a lot of threads get hijacked and sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad but it happens.  Some people start threads and nobody to very few people chime in with anything.  Some threads get a ton of traffic.  But when you post that "camps are a complete waste" you're going to get a reaction because you are so very wrong.  Just because you didn't want the thread to go in that direction doesn't mean that it won't when you post something so wrong.  Maybe what I and others put will help you - that's fine - but many others just read posts without responding.  They may get something out of the discussion between camps are good or bad.  That's why we post what we post - someone will get something out of it.

 

There are many, many people on here who have so much valuable advice, help and insight that can help many many people.  That includes you and even myself.  I like to think I'm pretty daggone smart when it comes to baseball but I pale in comparison to some of the others on here.  Read back through posts and you'll see I have a clue and there are some really smart people on here.  You don't know me and I don't know you so if you want to learn from this place then chill out but if you want to show everyone how much keyboard courage you have then you're missing out on what this place can offer.  But that's up to you.

1st of all, superstitions are TOTALLY predicated on whether or not they are working at the time.  If they cease to work, something new will be done to change the "baseball Karma".  

 

Secondly, the above is more related to health.  It really is not something related to "superstition".  I don't think heavy icing is something you should do prior to pitching...

I have to reiterate, I did not state camps were a waste. What I did state (as an aside)

was that that is what I’m learning from members of this site. Like the member who stated that the camp recruited two in five years or the member who writes “Well, a college camp is not really something you can rely on for recruitment unless they REALLY have had you on their radar.

They will never turn anyone down.” (TPM)

 

My panties are not in a wad because you (someone who runs a camp) may disagree, but rather from comments you make like “you’re crazy if…” and “don’t be a jerk”

 

And what I find the most incongruous that you yourself can be quoted as saying

“First and foremost a camp is there to help the team make money to pay for assistant coaches”    “(coach20709) Others would use the term "MONEY GRAB"

This keeps coming back to camps.  Many feel they are a waste of money.  Many think they are good for learning.  Many think they are not a good idea as a recruiting tool.  

 

There is no question they are used by the schools as a way to generate some revenue.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  That does not necessarily mean they are a waste of time.  The two things are not mutually exclusive.  If you go to the right camp, one in which your son is a potential prospect for, they could be extremely valuable.  My son went to 2 camps in his recruiting process.  One was a mid level D1, the other was a D2.  He received interest from both.  The D1 pulled him aside and talked to him and kept in touch for a while.  When they found out what his grades in HS were like, the interest went a way...  Lesson there for everyone.  The D2 pulled him aside, invited him back for an official visit and made him an offer.  He wound up going to a different D2 in the same conference.  

 

If you take your son to camps at schools which are WAY over his head talent wise, the camp could be considered a waste of money in terms of generating recruiting interest.  However, as others have said, it may not have been a waste in terms of narrowing down what level you need to be looking at.  If that school shows no interest in your player, that is saying something in and of itself.  If you go with the right attitude, you may actually learn some interesting baseball stuff as well.  

 

Put it this way.  All coaches are ALWAYS looking for new players.  It would be stupid of them to ignore a potential prospect that came to one of their camps.  If a kid is a fit, he's a fit, whether he is seen at a PG tournament or if he is seen at the school's camp.  The trick is attending the right camp!

 

CoachJackE, I would say that your player may have actually attended the right camp.  Keep this in mind.  Most schools - especially D1s are done recruiting.  Most have obtained their verbal commitments from players they are giving money to.  Your player is a 2016, he was offered a roster spot.  With a D1 limit of 35 roster players, that is a pretty good thing.  I think you are a little behind in the game still looking for baseball money for a 2016, so getting a D1 offer for a roster spot is pretty good.  Think about it...

To continue the camp discussion, my son did not do any showcase tourneys during high school.  He  picked several schools to attend their prospect camp and ultimately got an offer to play.  I don't know how many of the program's other recruits were from camps, but it worked out well for us.  I do think we were somewhat lucky, we probably would have had more looks from participating in showcase ball, but that was something he really did not want to do.

I think that bballman did a great job of explaining what some of us have said over and over, maybe it is confusing.

 

When I stated that camps were not for recruiting, you basically said then what are they for. So I answered pretty much what has been said above. Maybe you should go bqack and read what everyone has stated, and you will come up with info that can benefit the player as well as the program, but reality is that camps are for generating money, for whatever reason it may be. Volunteer coaches make about 25-29 per year (maybe more or less) so the program does try to raise funds to make his life a bit easier. These camps are put together and managed by the volunteer coaching staff, even though some of the camps are OWNED by the Head Coach.  The money generated is theirs to do as they please and as I stated, many subsidize their staff with additional salary. So no, they wil never turn down anyone's money, because that is the purpose of the camp. Also, the coaches from other progams that come to assist in that camp have to get paid, they don't do it for free.

My son attended a program that had one of the best camps in the country, at Clemson, run by Jack Leggett. I understand from many people I have met here, that they could not believe how much their player learned at that camp, and that many of them went year after year.  When you have had coaches like Tim Corbin, Kevin O'Sullivan, Bradley LeCroy and Leggett himself talk at the camps and work with kids, you are going to walk away with lots of tips that could make you a better player.

However, some coaches use camps for recruiting, but not necessarily to find a needle in a haystack, they do invite the players that they have been courting, sort of like an unofficial visit.  And yes, some do use their prospect camps to pick up players, no one said that never happens, did they? You have to remember that not all schools have budgets that allow them to travel as much as the very large programs, that would be most likely for small D1 programs, D2, D3 but there are some annual events throughout the country that everyone comes out to see players.

 

Personally I don't believe in scrambling to find a school for the early signing period, that doesn't always make a good fit for the player.  Scrambling to me means that the family did not do their due diligence, as does using some weighted ball program, or some cryotherpy the day before to make you better. Coach Jack, it just doesn't work that way for 99% of the players that go onto play college ball.

 

So no one has ever said that camps are a waste of time (at least I didn't). However, if someone is trying to attend every camp so that someone would notice, its not usually going to happen.  Camps have a purpose, we are trying to explain, in our experience, what that purpose is. And no one said it was a money grab, you said that.

 

A very good example would be that scout day that your grandson attended yesterday, waiting for 4 hours to throw a few pitches, sounds to me like that would be a waste of time.  But I am under the impression that you were not the one who brought him there.

Maybe you should give this site to your son, and let him figure out for himself what he should and should not do as far as recruiting.

 

 

Look you want to be that guy then be my gues.  I could care less.

I give...you win...you can have the last word!!

Thanks I appreciate it