Ice after pitching?

There are several different philosophies about this.

Son subscribes to the one that goes, you don't ice after a work-out, so why would you ice after pitching?

LHPMom

Personally, I think you should only do it if you are hurting or have pain. My son generally does not ice. Only once in a while when he tells me his arm is "hurting". He will get "sore" when he goes into the 90's in pitch count, but we don't even ice him then. I think you should be "sore" when throwing that many pitches. The other night he threw 3 innings on 3 days rest (Monday outing, then Friday outing) after going a complete game - 7 innings 67 pitches - and he said his arm was "hurting". We iced that night. Went 20 minutes with ice, about 30 minutes without and 20 more with ice. Next day he was fine.

Son is pretty good at letting me know the situation. When he differentiates between being "sore" and "hurting" I will opt for the ice just to be safe.

By the way, the hurting was a generalized hurting in the upper arm. Nothing in either the elbow or shoulder joint.

Bottom line is, if there is any pain or anything more than general muscle soreness, ice. That is always the way we have dealt with it.

Do a search on ice or icing after pitching in this forum and you will find all kinds of arguments for/against.

Readers Digest: Some recommend it - some don't.

ASMI has a study going on right now on it. Check out their site for additional information.

Thanks for the advice and BOF thanks for info.

My high school soph son has never iced. He's never had a day of soreness or pain. He also hasn't pitched excessively.

quote:

My high school soph son has never iced. He's never had a day of soreness or pain. He also hasn't pitched excessively.

I can't recall having ever iced my arm. I used to throw (and pitch) a TON. As in nearly every game between about 5th and 8th grade! Yes, probably excessively

But my arm is that way-- I could go out and work my way out to about 250 feet today having not consistently thrown in 2 years and be fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

My high school soph son has never iced. He's never had a day of soreness or pain. He also hasn't pitched excessively.

I can't recall having ever iced my arm. I used to throw (and pitch) a TON. As in nearly every game between about 5th and 8th grade! Yes, probably excessively

But my arm is that way-- I could go out and work my way out to about 250 feet today having not consistently thrown in 2 years and be fine.

I should add he throws a lot. I never had arm problems until college. I had trouble with a reliever's routine while also being a position player.

As a counter point, all the PTs and Surgeons who specialize on elbow and shoulder problems (and trainers) I have talked to have told me they believe you should ice to be safe. The decision is yours. For all those that have never had any pain, I wish you the best and hope your good fortunes continue.

My only question is....what harm could come from icing?

quote:

My only question is....what harm could come from icing?

Tx-Husker, I'll have to look again to be more specific, but you could develop a Cold Allergy. Also, you can get to the point where the body adjusts and the ice no longer as any affect.

I also have it in my mind that research has shown icing after running long distances (as in cross country practices and such) has no significant effect on the healing process. I'd expect similar results in the arms.. I'll have to check on that too..

Some pitchers end up with synovial plica which are extra bits of connective tissue that can become irritated due to over use. Ice can keep the irritation from taking hold and becoming full fledged inflammation and pain.

My son has ALWAYS iced. Since the beginning until now, just for a short period after he pitches.
His scope last year revealed no tears, even tiny ones, just some fraying, so not sure if that made a difference. My son also throws very hard and always has.
I've never seen a pitcher on his college team or in pro ball not wrapped after a game.

I think you get many different opinions about icing from high school on down but as the baseball support staffs become more educated and professional at the major college and professional levels you will find almost all trainers are proponents of their pitchers icing their arms. Not that it means anything but my son threw a lot as a catcher AND a pitcher (use and overuse). He always iced and never had any arm problems. Personally I would follow the team's trainer's philosophy and hope he remains injury free.
Fungo

As with all things done to excess, I'm sure icing for too long could present problems. The doctors and PTs I've talked to say stretching followed by 10-20 minutes of icing after throwing speeds recovery and is a good injury prevention practice.

My son's HS trainer requires both the pitcher and catcher ice after games.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
My only question is....what harm could come from icing?

Especially for younger players, any thing that tends to mask pain or even moderate soreness may be a bad thing. In my opinion, kids who are still learning how to throw should listen to (feel, actually) their body, and try to employ a throwing motion which doesn't cause pain or soreness.

So I contend that young players shouldn't be using analgesics/anti-inflamatory drugs (e.g. Ibuprofen), nor should they be using ice. If a player needs ice or drugs to avoid discomfort, I would argue that either his mechanics are bad, or he doesn't have sufficient conditioning base to allow him to throw that much. So one kind of potential harm is the masking of a useful symptom.

I don't disagree at all with listening to what your body is telling you. You're spot on with that comment. But, I think we should recognize there is a difference between prolonged icing to mask pain, and brief icing to speed muscle recovery as a preventative measure.

quote:

and brief icing to speed muscle recovery as a preventative measure.

How does icing speed muscle recovery? It has already been stated that icing slows down inflammation so how is that speeding up recovery?

No offense, Bulldog, but I'll take the advise of one of the best elbow/shoulder surgeons in the country. He told me icing for less than 20 minutes after throwing is part of a healthy routine for arm care and injury prevention.......that's a quote.

Oh you don't want to quote an expert !!!
What do they know ?

quote:

No offense, Bulldog, but I'll take the advise of one of the best elbow/shoulder surgeons in the country. He told me icing for less than 20 minutes after throwing is part of a healthy routine for arm care and injury prevention.......that's a quote.

But I'm sure he didn't tell you why? Or are you just not telling us why? Or maybe tell us his name so we can search out the information on our own.

Look, I have some knowledge of exercise physiology.. I'm no expert but what has been said to this point is contradictory to what I have learned. I am looking for more information as to why one would believe icing speeds up the healing process?

Contrary to popular belief, inflammation is a GOOD THING to a certain extent.

quote:

But I'm sure he didn't tell you why? Or are you just not telling us why? Or maybe tell us his name so we can search out the information on our own.

If you want two of the specialists I spoke with who both trained under the guru in B'ham and work on professional athletes for a living, PM me. Did I ask them why...no. I trust their professional judgement and training. They each know more about arm injuries and prevention than I will ever being to know or understand. They see and treat damage for a living....they tell me how to prevent it....that's enough for me.

My son's doctor also agrees with TX.

quote:

My son's doctor also agrees with TX.

You don't even have to use an ice pack up there, BobbleheadDoll. Don't you just take a nice 10 minute walk in the neighborhood without a jacket on?

Yes but I use an ice pack. I don't want to freeze other parts of the body.
It is actually beautiful out. No rain and 60 %. We have had a great spring. Took a great drive from Niagara on The Lake along the Niagara Parkway and lake Erie. Blossoms are out and tourists everywhere. Even took in a BB game.

I asked this question many times...Son was told its up to him. or ..if you ice continue to ice...if not dont start, but always run after pitching. Well we wrestled with this for about a year. Well after pitching last year with elbow pain, we decided to go seek help.....Him and I found someone we could trust after a long search..guy was a therapist for the CHICAGO CUBS his office is about a mile from Wrigley field and had resume to prove it. He stated the following: ICE AFTER THROWING FOR 20 MIN THEN NO ICE....THEN ANOTHER 20 MIN!!! (if possible get some ultrasound therapy after that) Son has been feeling better since....so you must ICE.....and run to prevent lactic acid buildup...best of luck guys!!

A player MUST not do anything that is out of the norm for him---it is probably 50/50 across the board--ice or no ice

The only change I would make in CPs statement is that you should do a light jog to flush the LA that has built up during a strenuous outing. Otherwise he was on the money.

Realistically for my son, he has tried a few of these methods and has settled on running 6-8 poles after pitching to flush the lactic acid of the arm, 15 minutes of ice, and a bands routine the next 2 days to strengthin the muscles and tendons.

Lactic acid....wow

Here you go, Bulldog. You're going to be needing a membership.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:


Contrary to popular belief, inflammation is a GOOD THING to a certain extent.

Certain extent is the key terms here!

Ice decreases the chances of it exceeding "certain extent."

Someone with exercise physiology knowledge should know that.

Explain to us what certain extent is and what happens when the inflammatory process exceeds it?

That will answer your own questions about why ice.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoPete:
I asked this question many times...Son was told its up to him. or ..if you ice continue to ice...if not dont start, but always run after pitching. Well we wrestled with this for about a year. Well after pitching last year with elbow pain, we decided to go seek help.....Him and I found someone we could trust after a long search..guy was a therapist for the CHICAGO CUBS his office is about a mile from Wrigley field and had resume to prove it. He stated the following: ICE AFTER THROWING FOR 20 MIN THEN NO ICE....THEN ANOTHER 20 MIN!!! (if possible get some ultrasound therapy after that) Son has been feeling better since....so you must ICE.....and run to prevent lactic acid buildup...best of luck guys!!

I hope your son is over 16 years of age? Problem with therapists who work on "Chicago Cubs" is that they normally don't work on the pediatric patient. Otherwise they would know that ultrasound is contraindicated around elbows or other areas with active growth plates. If its a kid stay away from ultrasound to be safe!