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I only have my kids ice when they're sore. They can ice whenever they want, but I'm not a proponent of icing to ice. Let me ask-- do you ice your legs after lifting weights?
Not a big fan of icing either, nor much running after pitching. Has never made much sense to me.
All 3 of my kids are pitchers (high school and college). All 3 ice and run afterwards. It has become their routine and habit. I think the two high schoolers learned from their older brother.
For those of you who think icing isn’t something that needs to be done, what do you find harmful about it?
I know of at least one MLB club that has the philosophy "We do not ice healthy arms." Minor leaguers are not even given the option. Not sure about the big club.
There was a Japanese study a few years ago that questioned the value of icing. There is also this study, just released, that suggests that icing may in fact be counter-productive.
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-j...ecovery_From.24.aspx
My personal opinion is that the jury is still out and that it's just a matter of personal preference. If you think it helps you, it probably does.
For those of you who think icing isn’t something that needs to be done, what do you find harmful about it?
I'm not sure I'd sy it's necessarily harmful. I just don't believe it is beneficial in most cases. And I don't believe we need to waste time doing it "just because." Let me ask again: do you ice your legs after lifting weights?
It has always amazed me that so many people disagree on the subject of icing. I mean even among the experts. I only know that icing reduces swelling.
I think it is all about preference, and whatever makes one feel better.
Icing legs makes no sense as they don't go through the unnatural motion that the shoulder does. There is much more chance of injury when pitching. And definetly should be done if sore.
Icing legs makes no sense as they don't go through the unnatural motion that the shoulder does. There is much more chance of injury when pitching. And definetly should be done if sore.
What's so "unnatural" about throwing a baseball? I'm not targeting it at you necessarily TPM, but I have to question this thought process. I'm sure I've probably claimed its unnaturalness before too, but sometimes you gotta think about it..
What part of the throwing motion is your body not designed to do?
You just told me lifting weights with your legs wasn't unnatural. With that logic, nobody should ever get hurt lifting weights. And actually the "natural" way of a female's movement is what causes her to tear her ACL and to have anterior knee pain.
I just think baseball is, once again, behind the eight-ball in sports medicine because we're so tied up in tradition. We don't consider the why, but just consider the "it's the way it's always been."
Bulldog,
I'm keeping an open mind on this, but I've got to see some science or testamonials around it. I'm 50 years old and I play competitive tennis (singles) 2 times a week, and doubles 1-2 times a week on a good week. My shoulders and elbows get sore after I play. If I want any shot of recovering to play the next day, I have to ice for 15-20 minutes after and take some advil. I know my (old) body only too well.
I see this exactly the same way as I do with my three pitcher sons. The motion of hitting a serve in tennis very similar to throwing a baseball except there may be more force for the pitcher because he is elevated. It is an un-natural motion that you are constantly repeating. I always feel better the next day after icing than I do when I didn't ice. In addition, I always feel better when I stretch or do some light cardio before and after I play tennis singles. I know my body pretty well after having done this for so long.
If someone can show me a better way, I'm all ears. At my age, I'm open to anything that will allow me to recover quicker and more comfortably.
I wouldn't ice for more than 10 minutes, because of diminishing returns. However, it's useful for reducing swelling. I defer to PGStaff and TPM for something like this; they know far more about pitching than I do.
If you need to reduce swelling, something is wrong physically. If you are just trying to recover from regular/normal use (including overhand throwing), then new oxygenated blood will help best. That is why cardio work right after pitching, or extending throwing for a position player, is the best route. Removing the lactic acid is also another way to reduce typical soreness.
Bottomline, if you need Advil and ice after regular throwing/pitching, then there is likely something wrong mechanically or physically.
You need to work on your geohumoral interior rotational deficit. You should try to increase the range of motion to as close to 180 as possible.
I wouldn't ice for more than 10 minutes, because of diminishing returns. However, it's useful for reducing swelling. I defer to PGStaff and TPM for something like this; they know far more about pitching than I do.
I don't have much experience other than what I have seen in college baseball, and proball. As a starter son always iced, always, that was his preference, and probably still is as a reliever, for a short period of time and he has had issues over the years so without a doubt he wouldn't abandon it for sure.
But I think it is more of the routine he follows afterwards, that is cardio and specific excercises for the rotator cuff. There are all different theories, you may also see some pitchers come off the mound and toss lightly afterwards. Most pro teams have specific things that pitchers must do immediately after they pitch.
Catchers use ice baths to help sooth their entire bodies, if these things are bad why do they exist?
In all the years son has been on the mound (about 18 to be exact), have never seen anything written or published that icing the arm is harmful, do what makes YOU feel better, but I would make sure there are other things that are done for pitcher recovery.
First time poster! My son who is a 2016 had a chipped piece of cartilage in his elbow on his throwing arm in the summer after the sixth grade. The cartilage would cause discomfort when he threw sometimes. We went and had Andrews remove the piece of cartilage and he has no further problems. They had him ice the arm through out the rehab process that started 4 weeks after he was scoped and told him to continue to ice the arm on a 20 min. on and 20 min. off routine after he got home. They told him it would be fine to ice after days when he threw a lot and we have continued to do so and have not had any further issues.
with respect to icing the legs after lifting, little difficult to do given the area you have to cover. FWIW I play hockey 2-3 times a week for about 7 months out of the year. I bought a 60gal plastic trash container and fill it 70% full of water. If I am sore I get in up to mid-thigh and empty out the ice maker in the fridge. Cannot tell you how much better I recover, the fact I am 51 may have something to do with it but I don't see it as a issue with respect to icing if your sore as needed where needed
Fenway, try golf, it's easier on the body. Some years back, I attended a parent and player seminar by Karl Kuhn at UVA. He said that he and his 90 year old grandmother both take a little creatine each day, she because she rides her bicycle every morning. He also said his pitchers ice only on the muscle and only for the 20 minutes they are on the stationary bike getting those bloods cells circulated around the body.
About two weeks ago, there was a great article in the New York Times science section that described how human arms were uniquely evolved to benefit throwing. Before we had modern weapons, humans killed prey (and each other) by throwing rocks, spears, etc. This evolution forced us to give up arm strength and lifting strength relative Chimps and Cro-Magnon men. Throwing allowed us to kill from a distance... and they could not. They could lift..and we don't need too. So, the fact is, throwing is natural and lifting is not natural! Here is the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06....html?pagewanted=all
