If I had to do it all over

An honest, painful post. Thanks for sharing.

Your son chased his dream.  He had an opportunity and he went for it.  Good for him.  Guess, what.  The opportunity for a 4 year college degree is still there.  Sounds like he his most of the way there.  He just has to decide if that is what he wants to do.  Good luck. 

Thanks for the post, it comes at a good time for me. I am at the sophmore high school stage with my son. He appears to be more interested in video games than working on baseball skills. When we talk he gives the impression that he wants to pursue baseball as far as it will take him but as they say, actions speak louder than words

After good advice on here and other sources Ihave decided to put it in his hands and see how dedicated really is. I have learned that I can not be pationate for him, he has to want it. I have also come to the realization that, like the OP eluded to, if the drive and love for the game are not there then there is nothing "I" can do to change it but let him make his own way. My hope for him from the beginning was that he wouldn't look back and regret not giving baseball his undevided attention and that baseball could be a vessel to go to college and earn a degree.

It took a lot to come to this realization and I almost feel a sense of calm that no matter what happens he will be a good man who will succeed at whatever makes him happy.

Thank you for this honest post.  I think as a parent you did an awesome job and gave him every opportunity to pursue the baseball dream.  Neither you nor he will ever look back and think "what if" and that's a lot.  Hopefully he's close to that degree and he'll pursue it with passion once he's ready.  

There comes a point when families end up throwing good money after bad.  Sounds like you know this now.  

You also sound like your realize that academics should always be at top of list.  In this day in age, how do we still have parents of 7th, 8th, 9th grade kids that don't realize that?  

I'm not picking on you, because your son had ample opportunities provided by you to get his degree.  He made his bed, he'll have to lie in it.  

But starting very early kids need to understand that baseball (and video games and girl friends and cars, etc) are luxuries.  Those things are earned.  How do you earn them?  Through good grades.  "Good grades" may have many different definitions to different people.  

Life is way to competitive to be walking around with a bunch of credits from different schools and no degree.  

Readers of this board may fall into the trap of thinking of the MLB dream because this board has several contributors with MLB kids.  The REALITY is that you'd be better off playing the Power Ball then counting on the MLB.  

Use your athleticism to further your academics!

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour  <----- 2014 VA & NC Tours posted.  2 more coming soon.

www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool

PUHD,

I am very proud of you. I know that it took a lot for you to post what you did.

I agree with much of what you have said, there are a few things that I don't.

I do not believe at the amateur level that players have to live and breath baseball (or whatever sport) to be successful.  The key is balance.  They have to learn what is important and appropriate at that particular point in  time, when to use good judgment and good time management.  And above all, because only a small percentage will ever play beyond HS and less beyond college, instill in them that academics are very,very important. Your hard work in the field will get you noticed, your hard work in the classroom will open the door.  Unless you are a stud of course and possible early round draft choice, but reality is that your son is not, therefore he has to have an alternative to possibly reach the next level to improve.

If your son has reached the HS level, you do not have to remind him that he has to do his homework or needs to get to the batting cage, that's not your job.  Will you be there when he goes off to college to remind him of those things, or to go to class, NO YOU WILL NOT, so he has to learn it NOW, on his own.

It's called being responsible.

You don't have to be a high honors student, you don't have to be a PG "10" to play the game at the next level.  But your son has to be self motivated, and realize that you don't get better playing video games. And keep in mind that the maturation process is different for everyone. College is a good place to grow up. Don't think son really understood it all until his sophomore year in college.  Understood how hard he had to work daily. So don't panic if they don't grasp this when you want them to in HS, it is very very hard to understand just how HARD it is after HS ball or further.

The above post by Rich is accurate. Chances are extremely slim your son will ever reach ML.  Don't discourage him to give up the dream, but allow him to make realistic goals that would include an alternative to that dream. And as a parent, be realistic in your view as the more you feed your dream, the bigger the monster. It has to be his dream.  Stop comparing your son's pre HS talent to what that will or will not translate into 5-6 years later. LL is not HS ball, HS ball is not college ball, college ball is NOT pro ball and learn the significant differences in the mil system compared to MLB.

Instill in him when he is young to respect and understand the game, if you feed the seed properly it will grow on it's own.

Most of all, when the college decision comes, don't allow your son to transfer year after year because he isn't getting the playing time he wants, perhaps that is a signal that his playing time is coming to an end, and transferring and losing credits isn't going to work for you anymore unless he wants to pay for it!  College is expensive and you should not be forced into debt to help your son follow his dream. I have seen this happen too many time, use those skills and grades to pay the way!

Best advice is and always will be ,I agree 100%,  use  athleticism to further your academics! 

Great post PUHD.  Lots of lessons learned for players and parents.  Your words of caution are there for all to see. 

Someday your son will appreciate everything you tried to do for him. Good luck to both of you.  .

I agree, best of luck to your son!

Guess I don't see where all was lost.  Everything counts in our lives, the way I see it. PUHD and his son should be considered a success rather than a failure. His son played and experienced baseball beyond high school. I do believe we all fall victim to higher expectations at times. Call it dreaming, having goals, or what ever you want, it is important to have them. 

I understand the value of education and getting a degree. At the same time I think we sometimes over rate the college experience in some ways. I know lots of college graduates that can't find a good job. Obviously there are many others without a college education that may never find a good job.

When I think of education, I don't think about nothing except school.  Every day we live can be educational in some way. Learning happens in many ways and it never stops. There is a big advantage in obtaining a certain amount of street smarts.  You don't have to have a degree to be a good, productive, citizen and a good parent.

PUHD, I don't mean this in a bad way, but rather than be disappointed in your son you should feel proud of his accomplishments.  He might not have reached your expectations, but he is still very young.  The story has a long ways to go before it ends. You might even change your mind and someday feel very good about everything you did. I'm betting he learned a lot over the past four years and he might even decide to get that degree at some point.

Before all the "academic" people get too excited. I totally agree that academics are important and should be that way.  It helps create opportunities, no doubt about that. I just think that sometimes we make academics even more critical than it really is. You don't have to have a degree to be successful in life. And when it comes to learning and developing important skills, athletics/baseball might teach you many things you could never learn in a classroom. I'm a big believer in the combination of student/athlete. That combination is a great learning experience. On the other hand, failure and/or success is not measured by pro contracts or degrees. Rather. it's a result of utilizing what you have learned in life.

I do need to add this... I am far from an expert on this subject. I just think kids need to hear parents tell them how proud they are of them once in awhile. I'm very proud of all my kids and they have failed many times at many things. And haven't we all!

I do agree with the above.

Someone that you and I both know told me something once I will never forget. Love and respect your children for who they are and not what they do. Be proud.

I know many people that are very disappointed that their sons didn't get to play pro ball, this saddens me very very much.  There is so much more to life than baseball.

Maybe it is the teacher in me but having an education is extremely important, not necessarily  a 4 year degree, but being educated in something other than life.  My daughter did not go to college (well she did but hated it and quit) and she does  well. She is experiencing as she becomes older that she is lacking some skills that are important,  but in competition with those of her age who have college degrees. There are many jobs she cannot do close in her field, because she does not have a degree.

There is GREAT importance in going to college, most importantly the showing of commitment to complete what you started to do in the first place.  Going to college just to play baseball then not finishing because your baseball playing days are over, IMO shows no commitment to follow through what you set out to do.  I say this as a parent who has a son who needs to complete his last year of college and hopefully will when his baseball days are over.  If the degree wasn't important then he could have told everyone he wanted to get drafted. We have had this discussion and he understands its his choice but he also knows he has to finish what he started out to do. Most people in baseball have told him unless he just wants an entry level position only in what he wants to do, he has to have at least a 4 year degree, and in many cases these days that even isn't enough. He has a lot of life experiences playing the game of baseball but that does not make up for lack of education. Lots of stuff to learn going to college besides your degree as well.

Sorry, but one of the reasons that our country is in trouble is because there isn't enough importance placed on the value of education. Has kind of put us behind in the world market as well.

Son told me once that the latins that come here to play would do anything to be in the situation most of the american players are. They come here to make money to make their lives better, and for most, playing baseball is just about all they can do, as they have no formal education.

TPM, thank you very much. You do speak from experience and I do hope son completes his degree in whatever he can. Right now he doesn't like what he is doing, long hours away from home. Sounds like minor league ball doesn't it? In the end, I really question whether he would have signed a contract knowing how long he would be away from GF.

PG, as always a very insightful reply. Yes, for playing 4 years past HS it was a success and he had his moments in the sun. Being as he was 3/4 of way to getting some kind of degree, I was hoping he would finish when he came back, hope springs eternal.

He did learn this his first year of college, never give someone something they "purchased" from you until they come up with the cash. That kid is in the minors now.

PG, besides a few academic awards that will never see the light of day, the thing he did in those 4 years that I remember the most is telling JC player Bryce Harper to knock off his taunting of his team mates. I can say I tried my best, supported him financially and gave him praise for his accomplishments.

PGStaff, in the end I truly believe son did his baseball future a big disservice when he turned down PG's offer of attending one of their events. I think that signaled to the baseball community his lack of commitment to the sport.

As you say, the story is only beginning, baseball is over, but life goes on......

My only hope is that my son's and I experiences can help out the boys/parents moving up the system.

Thank you HSBBWEB for all the wonderful, informative, and funny posts over the years.

Sincerely,

Pop up hitter Dad

Look back with rose colored glasses. 

Hey Fred.  Please note that my kid was a lazy bum as a sophomore who said he wanted to play at a high level, but did not show any work ethic to get there,  He had always been a good baseball player and did not have to do that much, so why work?  After seeing guys that work hard catch up to him, maturing as a person, and being told he need to get in shape by a coach he respects, by junior year he got serious and put in the work athletically and academically.  I have found this happens for many kids at that age.  In fact, I even had an 11th grade teacher tell me that junior year is the time boys make the most transition from kid to adult.  Be patient, he will get it if he really wants to play. 

Pop up.  Your son is 22?  So it is taking him a little longer for him to realize importance of education.  I did not even go to college until I was 21, and went on to top grad school.  I had an advantage being older and more mature.  Your son is already ahead of the game.  Chin up.

removed my post ,was too wordy for me after I went back and read it.

I guess after going through all of it, and having life happen in all its good and sad and hard stages the most important thing to me is a good relationship with my kids. One of respect and love and enjoying each other.

I think we have all stressed a lot about things that maybe we shouldnt of had.

My hope and expectation is that your son will surprise you and find his way -- and pass along to his son some day a love of the game, which is good.

I wholeheartedly agree with PG Staff: There are many more ways to become productive, contributing, and even financially successful citizens than attending college. It just ain't for everyone. Ask Bill Gates.

And I can't help but challenge one thing in this thread: The statement that the odds of winning Power Ball are greater than making the Bigs. Sorry. That's just not true by any measure.

Wish you hadn't, fanofgame. I thought it was a great post.

I sometimes go back and read them and I sound like Im lecturing.Thanks for the words of confidence.I dont want to ever try to write like I am getting on someone.

I have known PUHD for a long time and his struggles are familiar and I have prayed a lot for him and his son.

I know he is a good dad,but dissapointed,and I think each of us want him to find the good in the situation.There is always good!!!

I myself have learned so much through this game,and I love my son with my heart and soul,he is my heart and soul,and if he never played another game of baseball I would be fine.The game has been good to him and us,and its been hard on us at times but lessons learned are worth it.

I just honestly look back on many of us over the years and the stress of what college,grades etc etc its tough stuff and until you as a family go through it no words will help you understand.

I want PUHD and his son to build a relationship apart from grades,degrees,chances lost for pro ball,because our treasures are not here built on earthy goals,our treasures lie way beyond.

Our heart needs to reach for the treasures of the heart.When you know your sons,daughters hearts,their dreams,their fears,thats what is good and real.

That is what we can build on.

The rest is like sand on a beach.The water washes it away,its not eternal.

My goal in life now is to build for eternity not here on earth)

K see I get all preachy. God bless PUHD and his son.May blessings of love and gratitiude be poured upon them both so that they can see the good in one anotheralways.

We all have dreams for our kids. Every one of us loves our children. Very very much. We want what we feel is best for them. We have dreams for them. But the fact is their life is not our life. Their dreams many times are not the same as the dreams we have for them. And quite frankly I had to find this out for myself.

I had a saying in my house. Your going to college. Your going to achieve. Well when my first son showed up at my doorstep at 2am in his second year of college with everything we sent him off with some things started to change. He said "It was your dream not mine. I hate school. I don't want to go to college. And Im not going back."

My wife was devastated. She cried for almost 2 weeks. I was angry. Well God has a plan for every life and it's not what we want but what God has planned that is going to take place. My son got a job as a Deputy. He then transferred to a local PD. He is now a Sgt on that Dept and highly respected by his peers. He is already up for a promotion. He is married and has a beautiful daughter that is the light of my eye. And most importantly he is happy.

I would have never chosen this line of work for him. It was not my dream for his life. But guess what? Its not my life. And the bottom line is the most important thing that any of our children can have is true happiness. PUHD let him find his way. Encourage him. Love him. Don't judge him. He will find his way and God will work his plan in your son's life.

Faith is a powerful thing. Forsaking All I Trust Him.

Transitions are hard.  Big or small, planned or unexpected:  They are hard.   Hopes, goals, planning and  striving all lead to outcomes: success, partial achievement, failure, and then, a new path.  We all know transitions are coming, they are unavoidable; we even put some planning into them (saving for retirement), but that will not mitigate the stress they cause when we are in the heart of the storm.

You and your son will have a rich relationship for the rest of your life.  But that doesn’t mean the stress you feel now is not real.  In fact, if someone didn’t feel a real weight during this type of transition I’d be more worried for them.  I’m a huge fan of youth sports and high school athletics.  Their lessons are innumerable (and well understood by the Posters here).  But even Chipper Jones had to stop putting on the uniform at some point.  Your young man is redefining himself and starting to look forward to who he may want to be.  Parents are allowing their child to grab the reins of his life.  Life without a net.  Scary cr&p.

I’d wish you luck, but I’ve read your other posts; you already count as ‘one of the good people’, luck is something you won’t need.

PUHD, we had that MLB dream for Midlo Son, too.  Injuries ended those hopes.  And that's the story for more kids than we like to acknowledge; the road to success is strewn with the bodies that lay along the wayside.

I do agree with PIS that making sure you get the academics right is important.  We did that and we are happy with son's degree.  But you should not necessarily be upset that your son didn't get his degree.  The key word missing is YET.  As in, he doesn't have his degree YET.  But he does have a ton of credits, sounds like.  So if it's a degree he wants at some future point, it's within his reach.

And perhaps baseball got him to that point.  Because the reality is, lots of kids never set foot in a college classroom.  For some of the players, the opportunity to continue playing and chasing the dream is the only thing motivating them to attend college.  While it's true that a degree is not always a requirement for a strong career, it's also true that most of the time it is, and I would suggest to you that the way you're describing your son, it sounds to me like he has gone a lot further in school to this point than he would have but for the whole baseball thing.

My older brother, by the way, chased his own dreams as a very talented musician.  Started college, then dropped out to tour with his band.  But some years later, he took those credits he had gotten and that shortened his path to getting the degree he needed to become a middle-aged working parent like the rest of us poor schleps!  The early classes were not wasted at all.

So, take heart, you may well get your wish in due time.  Some folks just take a different, and sometimes longer and windier, road.

I should also say, as to your son's thought that his playing days prepared him better for adult life:  You can believe that, for sure.

These players end up working far harder than almost all their peers.  Those work habits do translate into adult life.  Most college kids put so much effort into finding ways not to work, you wonder why they don't just do it and get on with it.  Baseball players are used to 70 hour weeks year round and are often bored without that feeling of constantly driving themselves.  Those guys make great employees and for that matter, future bosses and entrepreneurs.

So many good posts, my glass is now half full. Texas Crude said what I was thinking as I wrote the post. Fan of Game, you have been there for me the whole trip, I cannot thank you enough!  So happy your son's dream is still going. Mildo, you give me hope, son has mentioned going back to school. Son is much better suited by his college and baseball experience to take care of himself in this new uncertain job market. Thank you all for the wonderful insights.

PUH. Best of luck to your son. Thanks to this thread I have a much better outlook on my son's future and a stronger understanding of what my role should be. Also, thanks to all the other Posters who have shared their knowlege and experience to help others. 

Fred, all is not lost. After son got a job working mostly outdoors, he has been talking about finishing college!

Thank you.

There is so much more to this story and this book has not been written yet.  My daughter came home today so that I could do her laundry while she typed papers.  She had her wrist and ankle taped.  She moaned every time she moved and said she can't even get up without taking Advil.  She told me she almost drowned this week in the pool workouts.  She said she was physically exhausted that she could not finish her lap and so, went under.  I asked her about how much sleep she was getting.  She laughed.  Then, I asked about her papers.  They are all due in a few weeks.  She is getting ahead.  I asked her about the team and she said that they are bonding and doing stuff together if only to complain about how sore they are.  I asked about the party life in college.  She laughed and said she's so sore she couldn't go to a party if she wanted to.  She then read a book to me that she is writing for 7 to 8 year olds.  She has grown so much in ways my wife and I will never know. 

My wife is upset with how she eats. I am upset that her body has changed so much with all of the weight lifting.  Both of us are upset that she is getting so little sleep and taking 18-20 hours to try to catch up with her class because she can only take 12 during season. 

PUHD, it is a trade off.  In the end, you have been through something with your son that in 20 years is going to seem magical.  I know that sounds strange now but the idea that I did my daughter's laundry is just as crazy.  I think it is ok that you are not happy with where he now stands but then again, he's your son and so, this journey will continue and you will find that common ground eventually.  Of course you get to chose that.  I wish both you and your son well. 

CoachB25,

Good telling of your daughter's hard work. Makes baseball look easy.

In the end I had the wrong child pegged for athletic success. Oldest daughter went a tad over 4 years to college, got her degree in PE and is teaching as we speak. On top of that she took 2nd place nationally in track event. Now we feel bad for not going to see her in Nationals.

Daughters are special, they don't always get the praise they deserve.

Thank you Coach.

PUHD, I enjoyed your post very much. I have agreement with some of your frustrations of the journey. Since my son still has a season to play, I don't want to tell his story just quite yet. I will tell you between him and many different friends playing across the country, there is much to say in the future. To PG staff, parents are not just "academic people", but parents who are concerned about their children and their future after baseball. How many kids graduate from the school they play 4 years at, versus the percentage that don't. I will tell some stories, just like the coaches do when they are making promises to recruits at the beginning of process.

Pop-Up,

Kids have to find their “passion” (not their parents') and not all, particularly males, find that passion in time to complete that undergraduate degree by the age of 22.  Older son, with a strong pitching arm, dropped out of baseball after sophomore year in high school.  He was a decent player, liked to play games but did not like all the hard work to get there.  Baseball was not his passion.  Girls, skateboarding, partying, etc  were more interesting to him.  Entered college considering pursuing a degree in computer science because he had some talent there.  Though he had the smarts, he underachieved academically.  Met with considerable failure,  largely due to failure to attend the classes, but also because he had not found his passion.  A now-deceased business colleague, who had gone through a similar experience with his son, gave me encouragement through the difficult times.  Just the words, “never give up on him.”  Light bulb went off for son, at around age 21.  He returned to a 4-year college to earn a degree but in a different field.  Son had found his passion, how the human body works (in this layman’s words) after working at a local YMCA.  While it took 6 years from high school graduation to earn his undergraduate degree, he did so.  Son is now working on a PhD in neuroscience at one of the top programs in the country and has lectured at national meetings of the American Academy of Sports Medicine. 

Be patient.  Your son may not yet have found his passion.  And, never give up on him.

CeltDad,

Guess I'm not sure what you have addressed me about?

Parents are not just "academic people"? 

Of course parents care about their children's future.  Did I say something to the contrary?  Geez, I wouldn't want to meet the parent that didn't care about their kids future. I have four children and I want all of them to be successful and happy.

PG, again as I said before, some of the specifics must wait till the right time. The post in this thread you wrote on the 16th, you prefaced your opinion that academic people shouldn't get excited. I do agree that a college education doesn't equate with success. What I'm trying to say is when a coach tells a recruit(and parents) he has his best interest in mind for the next four years. I'm talking about players that don't get into trouble, get good grades, and play a majority of games. Some of the kids I have personal knowledge of their experience, get drafted after 4 years and still have more than a semester of classes to take towards their degree. If a player decides to chase the dream of the pro's, so be it. Many of us know pro players, and the many more who didn't make it thinking they would. The degree promises you nothing, but in my opinion it has much better odds of bringing more opportunity in your future than the chance of playing pro ball. So since you are a person who has much knowledge of the process, I ask why is it that players who spend 4 years in a program leave without a degree. Is that a failure on the player,coaching staff, AD, or athletic academic dept. Tell me which region of the country you live in, and when I travel for work or baseball I'll try and get a beer with you. I would love to tell you some of the stories, but not on web. There is young men involved that I do care about, and would like to keep names out of this forum. FYI, my son has had a great experience to this point, but that doesn't discount the concern for many of his friends. Why is it that PUHD son's coaches couldn't make sure He got the correct classes to get a degree. Even if he was going to become a PD like in one of the previous post son's did, would lead to more pay and a increased chance of promotion. Also I would guess anyone that would bother to gather info on this site, would care about their children's futures. Including You. Take care.

Celtdad,

Not really getting your point but FWIW, most college students with or without athletics do not graduate in 4 years. It took me about 4 and a half.

If this is a major concern then this should be discussed at time of recruitment, but IMO I think that many players and their families kind of mess up on this part. They meet the coaching staff, see the facilities, watch a game but never sit down and have a discussion with the academic/athletic advisors. This is the students most important support system because these are the people who will help your son to get through the next 4-5 years with as much ease as possible.  Also be aware how many credits your son/daughter needs to take to graduate, 15 credits a semester with no summer school will not get anyone graduated in 4 or 5 years.

PUHD's son transferred so he most likely lost credits in the process towards a degree of some type.  Is this anyone's fault but the student?

And IMO there is no excuse that we as parents should have no clue about what is going on in the classroom, if I am paying any part of his/her college education or living expenses, I am going to make it my business to find out that he/she won't be there for 10 years to complete a degree.

Those that are able to graduate in 4 years while playing a sport should be congratulated. That is quite an achievement. My oldest son is almost 50 years old and retired as an officer in the Navy With a wife and 3 kids.  He is on schedule to graduate from law school in 2016. At age 22 there is plenty of time to accomplish things.

The major concern of the coaching staff is to make sure the player is eligible.  Academic advisors should be available for the other things.  We hear about all the players that start a pro career and never finish college.  Some of that is due to making it to the Big Leagues. Some due to long baseball careers, 10 or more years.  Some because the only reason the player went to college in the first place was to play baseball. Some due to starting a family.  However, many actually do go back and get their degree.

So pro baseball is one of the things that can get in the way of getting a college degree.  What is in the way for those not going to pro baseball/sports?  In most cases it's just a lack of desire or they have started a career doing something they truly enjoy.

I do believe education is vitally important. I believe three years without a degree, is still three years of education and it is valuable. Of course, getting that degree is much more valuable.  I also believe that there are some that have no desire to go to college.  And most of all IMO anyone can become successful if they find something worthwhile that they enjoy doing.

I don't want anyone to think I'm downplaying higher education.  I understand the importance!  On the other hand, I know several unhappy college graduates. One thing that beats out everything else is being happy!

A quick story...

I have an old buddy that got his college degree around 1968.  He went into teaching and didn't like it.  He ended up working the second shift in a factory for many years.  Every day when he got off work at 11PM he would head to the tavern and close it up at 2AM. I know because I was there with him a few times.

Then one day the factory closed down and he was out of a job.  He decided to start a late night janitorial service.  This allowed him to continue his life style.  He is still doing this and is around 70 years old.  Doesn't make a lot of money, but he is doing exactly what he wants to do.

Some might say... What a waste!  We all thought that, too, for awhile.  Then we found out he inherited a fortune when his mother died and he didn't ever have to work.  He can do anything he wants, yet he still works late nights and then goes out to the tavern. I know that sounds like a weird life style to many of us, including myself.  But, how many of us end up doing exactly what we want.  I've grown to respect this man a lot for achieving something we all seek... Happiness! It comes in many forms.

PGStaff... Thanks to your son for his service to our country.  My hubby is also retired Navy - a Naval Aviator & Test Pilot of 23 years - and we have 3 kids as well.  Thanks to you as well.  Families serve right along with their active duty members in some form or another.