Illinois Rules

quote:

Does the runner need to slide if he is still 10 feet from the bag when the man steps on second.

He either needs to slide or give himself up by veering off. Continuing upright direct into the bag and being within 15 feet (which is very close by the way) most certainly could get the NFHS Force Play Slide Rule called on him.

Rule 8-4-2 reads: Any runner is out when he: (b) does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or legally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases. A runner may slide away from the fielder to avoid contact or alter the play of the fielder. Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal.

Remeber however, if the runner gives himself up, i.e., running/veering away from the base, this is not a violation of the force-play slide rule. Could be a HTBT, but based on what I am reading, it sounds quite reasonable.

quote:

we had a runner on third with two outs. The ump then let a pitch be thrown to the next batter and then stopped the game and sent the runner back to second from the previous interference call.

Yes, an umpire can correct an umpiring mistake that puts a team at a disadvantage.

quote:

The first baseman had one foot in foul territory the whole time and the ump said according to high school rules this is not a fielders balk. Is he right. Thank you very much.

The umpire is exactly right, only one foot, per the rule, is all that is needed to be considered in fair territory. Even so there is no penalty for not being in fair territory....just a "don't do that"....

Hope this helps.....

Dear piaa_ump, Thank you for your reply. Just for the record I asked the two umpires at our game today and they disagreed with almost everything you said. They said he did not have to move away from the base and they also said once the next play started the runner could not go back. According to the rules you quoted I believe you but it just goes to show you the umpires are all not on the same page. They did say one foot in is ok. Thanks again.

quote:

just goes to show you the umpires are all not on the same page.

I hope that does not suprise you. One of the things the NFHS is trying to do with the mandatory rules meetings is standardize the way the game is called throughout all the states that NFHS rules are used...

this is a big job, and it has had only a modicum of success...I believe it is getting better, but the FPSR (force play slide rule) is a prime example....there are many umpires who, when they were players, were taught and admired for their ability to break up the double play....this was called good hard nosed baseball...clearly the intent of the FPSR is to eliminate that from the HS game under the heading of safety.....

There are some umpires who give broad leeway in calling rules that they have "issues" with....the NFHS has put emphasis on umpires to call the rules as written regardless of personal views.....

My personal opinion is if you dont agree with calling the game according to the rules as written then you should not accept a game played under that code.....

Here is a personal example.....years ago the NFHS rule was that umpires were to call out runners who missed bases without an appeal by the defensive team.....I did not agree, as I felt it is not our job to aid either side........but I called it as written....even though I did not like it......

Eventually NFHS changed that rule to the appeal process you see today.....

hope this helps.......

Actually, under NFHS (Fed) rules, a balk can be called if a fielder other than the catcher is on foul ground.

Rule 1-1-4...At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catchers box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground.
PENALTY: Illegal pitch. (2-18-1)

The keys to the enforcement of the penalty are:
a) time of the pitch
and
b) the fielder has both feet in foul ground.

A further explanation can be found in the NFHS case book.

1.1.4 SITUATION: With R1 on first, (a) F9 cuts in behind R1 for a throw from F1, who is in contact with the pitcher's plate, and receives a pickoff throw in foul territory; or (b) F3 has one foot in foul territory when he receives a pickoff throw; or (c) F3, in contact with the base, has on foot in foul territory as the throw is received.
RULING:Legal in (a), (b) and (c). In (a) since F1 had not committed himself to pitch to the batter, the play is legal.

In (b) and (c) there would be no balk even if the pitcher committed himself to pitch because the first baseman had one foot on fair ground at the time of the pitch. However, in (a) the play is only legal because the pitcher attempted a pickoff and TOP was never reached. If the pitcher had committed himself to deliver the pitch while F9 had both feet on foul ground the result would be a balk.

Now lets look at practical application of the rule.

The majority of amatuer baseball games are covered by two umpires. At the time of the pitch with runners on they both have their eyes on the pitcher, with the field ump in B or C position in the middle of the infield. If a first baseman was standing with both feet on foul ground while holding the runner, he would immediately move to a fielding position on fair ground when the pitcher started his motion to the plate. Neither ump would ever see that he was on foul ground at the time of the pitch. If the pitcher turned for a pickoff attempt at first it wouldn't matter that he had both feet on foul ground because that's not illegal. If the ump noticed it he would just say: "Hey first baseman, make sure you have one foot on fair ground."

To summarize, even though a balk could be called by rule, it isn't likely that it ever would be.

Thanks again to both gentlemen who replied