I'm getting sick and tired......

As a Little League parent I did my share of complaining (very loudly) about umpires. I got more mellow the longer my son played baseball. By the time high school rolled around and I was @ a basketball game and heard a nearby parent really giving it to the ref's I realized something.

I realized that in youth sports these umps and refs don't get paid enough to take much of our garbage. A little good natured complaining is ok if you don't agree with a call but I've heard normal, rational people go ballistic over calls. If we mistreat umps/refs enough there won't be any that will be willing to do this job for the small sums they are paid. Then where would we be??????

But, those are just my thoughts about youth umps. The big boys get paid to take the heat. Any way you look at it someone is unhappy with a call if it goes against them.

True story. I once watched a (drunk with power) scout team coach, who organized and ran tournaments, fire a $50 per game umpire in the middle of a game he was coaching, over a call he disliked.

Umps miss calls it happens. As a former coach I worked hard at practice everyday to prepare my team. In the beginning of my tenure 35 years ago a guy made a call you argued and it was over. At the end of my tenure it was much different. do not question etc etc. It was just some of the younger guys attitude. My last year I remember going out to question a decision to be told " get off of my field"

It does not make any sense for us, on here, giving any of the umpires that post here a hard time. Why do we have the Umpire Thread? Because posters wanted an interpretation of rules and we had posters that were Umpires in our cyber family that were willing to share their perspective on the game. How awesome was that?! You sure don't get that opportunity on a field of play, or you will be tossed. We all know that and generally accept that as part of the game. A part of the game that I and many others love as well. The Human Element, a call does not go my way and I can get incensed and yell at the Ump...I love that!!!

It is part of the game and always has been a part of the game.

What is the point of yelling at Umpires on a website? There is no adrenaline rush...you can't tell if the Umpire heard you and is going to give you a warning...no fear of being tossed from a game (I have been several times...years ago), it is pointless and only serves to fracture our cyber community. I understand that some posters deny the existence of community on this website, but I am confident that those individuals are in the minority.

We should all be pleased that we have experienced umpires willing to come on here and discuss why they rule the way they do. It is very informative and allows us to see another side of the game and more thoroughly enjoy this game we all apparently love.

It makes no sense to get ugly mean spirited and personal. Why? It serves no purpose. Chill out and keep personal rants to yourself.

I for one value the input the Umpires on here bring to the table, and I am sure that I am not alone.

You know, it is generally accepted that Pitchers don't like Hitters, and Hitters don't like Pitchers. They are at "war" with each other throughout a game...Should we therfore turn the Hitting Thread into a Pitcher Bashing Thread, or the Pitching Thread into a Hitter Bashing Thread?

Grow up guys (and gals)...

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Umps miss calls it happens. As a former coach I worked hard at practice everyday to prepare my team. In the beginning of my tenure 35 years ago a guy made a call you argued and it was over. At the end of my tenure it was much different. do not question etc etc. It was just some of the younger guys attitude. My last year I remember going out to question a decision to be told " get off of my field"

Will I understand where you're coming from but I believe what you put here just emphasizes this point I made above

quote:

Let's put some perspective into it - you make one post that criticizes an ump but the umps have read about 20 some posts criticizing them and you wonder why they might say something back? Trust me you get hammered with 20 some posts and pretty soon you don't start looking at who said it or how many times someone says something - it all becomes the same.

You coached for 35 years and while you changed over that time you were still the same person overall but while newer / younger umps were coming in there were also newer / younger coaches coming in as well who probably didn't handle things like you did. I know when I started 17 years ago I was terrible when it came to dealing with umps and I was basically a jerk but I finally figured out it didn't do any good to be that way. I've also seen newer / younger umps come in that had that attitude but overall they were just guys out trying to do the best they could. There were younger / newer coaches at the same time who acted like I used to but never figured it out.

I can't tell you what started or when it started but it is what it is - things changed and it wasn't for the better. On here it's changing and I don't think it's for the better.

I agree with the others that it's inherant to get onto officials for close calls and what not but there is a difference between being at an actual game versus a website. Plus there is a difference between a "come on - you gotta be kidding me" versus the stuff you see in the news about refs getting attacked. Umpire / officials attitudes have changed but what caused it? Coaches / players / fans attitudes have changed but what caused it? These are not good things and coming on here to berate umps (or anybody for that matter) isn't helping. I'm not saying we hold hands and sing campfire songs but we can do a better job overall of how we act on here.

I have changed over the years to have the ability to work with / deal with officials better but I still get burned by it. Last year in football I got a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty that hurt our team. In all honesty the officials were doing a terrible job but instead of doing something productive and try to overcome it I went into rant mode. When I got the penalty it wasn't cause I said something to the official - I yelled to one of my guys "don't let them hold you - fight through it" and next thing you know here comes the flag. Now did that one sentence warrant me getting a flag? HECK NO - but trust me the other stuff I was saying did warrant it and that's what they got me on. They were terrible but what good did it do go ballistic? The other team scored the go ahead touchdown two plays later and we lost that game. That one call didn't beat us because we played terrible too but I can't help but think how things had been different if I just kept my mouth shut.

You think umps / officials are terrible right now - then keep getting onto them and the ones smart enough to do a good job will also be the ones smart enough to get out after getting verball (and physically) abused. Then you'll be right in that the officials are terrible but remember you created the monster.

EDITED TO ADD AFTER PROOFREADING

Will the last paragraph isn't aimed at you when I talk about you having created a monster by getting onto umps. This is a general statement aimed at the ones who berate for no reason. I don't want you (or anyone for that matter) to think I was coming at you personally with that statement.

Thank you umps for the job you do. I will not agree with everything you do but that is life. It needs to start early. My son is seven and did not like a call on him. He said after the game to me, "that ump was terrible, he made a horrible call." I told him very simply, you may disagree with an ump only after you have been one. If you haven't done it, then don't question it. Then I told him, "by the way, he made the right call." I have lost my patience 2 times with umpires and it was warranted. Other than that I have coached numerous seasons and have rarely had to raise my voice. When I do go out to talk to blue, he listens because I don't ride him all game about every call. Balls and strikes are you kidding? He makes about 250-300 of those calls a game and I am going to complain about one or two. I am not sure I can do ANYTHING 250-300 times and do it right. Keep up the good work blue and see you in the spring.

This is such a good point made by hsballcoach:

quote:

He makes about 250-300 of those calls a game and I am going to complain about one or two. I am not sure I can do ANYTHING 250-300 times and do it right.

How many of us would like to have hundreds (or thousands) or people critiquing every second of the actions we take in our jobs, then screaming out their criticism if they disagreed with the "call" we made... even if those critics were too far removed to have an accurate perspective on whether or not we made the right "call"?

Julie

I completely agree. Umpires will always make mistakes, they are human, just like the players. If you have left the game in the umpires hands late in the game, that means you failed to do your job earlier in the game. I actually just got done posting an article about this and how players should accept responsibility for their actions and not point their fingers at other players or umpires. Would love to get some feedback on this!

I have several thoughts on the subject.

1. I would bet that the vast majority of those who "bash" the umpires have never been in their shoes. Put the gear on and get behind the plate for a game, have some balls bounced off your face mask or get dinged by a foul all the while dealing with your legs screaming as the result of doing a million mini squats behind the plate.

2. Before you jump on the umpire think about what you and your team could have done differently to negate the effects of a perceived poor call. Did your team make mistakes on defense, walk some batters, not execute at the plate? Before we demand that someone else be perfect we should strive for perfection ourselves.

It is so easy to point fingers in anger.

Not much fun when their pointed at you.

I'm not into bashing anyone. Understanding that there are excellent and very poor umpires, I believe attitude goes a long way in everything.

There are enough p. poor umpires with bad attitudes out there to cause quite a mess. It sounds like some of those umpires who post here are very good. I just get kind of tired of the fraternity thing. Why the need to stick up for umpires you might not even know. How can anyone judge their abilty based on a messageboard? All we can go by is what we read.

Most coaches and players respect great umpires whether they agree on a decision or not. Not trying to be funny here, but I have umpires who are very close friends!

We were running a tournament a few years ago and always try to get the best possible umpires. So we hired a crew that did college and even some pro work. I was walking around the umpire dressing room and overheard them talking. The entire conversation was how they banged guys out of this game and that game. They left no doubt in my mind that this was the part of the job they enjoyed the most and were the proudest about. Guess it's kind of like hitting a grand slam!

Not saying all umpires are like that, because we work with hundreds of umpires, some that are outstanding on and off the field. Some people, including umpires, are into "power" more than others.

So to me, I think the bad umpires, the power hungry guys, hurt the good umpires. That's why I never understood this unofficial fraternity. Let's honor the good ones and expose the bad ones.

None of this is meant towards anyone who posts here unless they are one of those power hungry types that truly enjoy running a player or coach. Most of what I’ve read on these forums has been good stuff by some passionate umpires who seem to care about excellence. No need to bash, maybe we should be thanking them instead, for contributing here!

I too find all the umpire bashing troubling, on multiple fronts. I've coached for quite a few years, and up until a couple years ago, only had the perspective of a coach about umpires. That all changed a few years ago, when the gentlemen who run the local association that officiates high school baseball convinced me to begin umpiring too, under the logic that I wasn't coaching at that time of year. It has been a great addition for me in many ways. I've gained a better perspective of how truly difficult it is to do a consistently good job of umpiring, and I'd like to think it has made me a better baseball coach, too. I've never been one to argue with umpires unless there is a good reason, and since I began umpiring in addition to coaching, I argue with them even less. However, one thing I have noticed is that I've become less tolerant of bad umpires, while being more appreciative of good ones, but also that I'm less patient with bad coaches, both when officiating AND coaching, than I was before. There are lots of good coaches and umpires out there, as well as a few who are not up to the level they should be for the games they're involved in.

I think experience, combined with a deep breath every now and then, can go a long way in each discipline. Before you bash an umpire, or a coach, take a moment to reflect on how you really feel and if you truly want to make your point 'that' way. I've never regretted taking the high road, but I sure have regretted getting down in the gutter a few times after it was all said and done, even if it did feel really good at the time.

.

"Let's honor the good ones and expose the bad ones."

That is very good advice PG...and it pertains to all walks of life.

.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I'm not into bashing anyone. Understanding that there are excellent and very poor umpires, I believe attitude goes a long way in everything.

There are enough p. poor umpires with bad attitudes out there to cause quite a mess. It sounds like some of those umpires who post here are very good. I just get kind of tired of the fraternity thing. Why the need to stick up for umpires you might not even know. How can anyone judge their abilty based on a messageboard? All we can go by is what we read.

Most coaches and players respect great umpires whether they agree on a decision or not. Not trying to be funny here, but I have umpires who are very close friends!

We were running a tournament a few years ago and always try to get the best possible umpires. So we hired a crew that did college and even some pro work. I was walking around the umpire dressing room and overheard them talking. The entire conversation was how they banged guys out of this game and that game. They left no doubt in my mind that this was the part of the job they enjoyed the most and were the proudest about. Guess it's kind of like hitting a grand slam!

Not saying all umpires are like that, because we work with hundreds of umpires, some that are outstanding on and off the field. Some people, including umpires, are into "power" more than others.

So to me, I think the bad umpires, the power hungry guys, hurt the good umpires. That's why I never understood this unofficial fraternity. Let's honor the good ones and expose the bad ones.

None of this is meant towards anyone who posts here unless they are one of those power hungry types that truly enjoy running a player or coach. Most of what I’ve read on these forums has been good stuff by some passionate umpires who seem to care about excellence. No need to bash, maybe we should be thanking them instead, for contributing here!

I have to agree with PG on his comments about 'the fraternity'. At first, I was greeted with a ton of suspicion by quite a few umpires, but not the really good ones. The good ones welcomed me warmly to their side of the game, but a lot of the middle of the road to lesser skilled ones wanted to know what I was up to, and why was I invading their turf. I thought that was funny as heck and just told them to go ask the fellows who ran the association, since they were the ones who talked me into giving officiating a try.

One thing I do notice is that, in general, umpires really have each others back. When I've commented on a problem I have with an umpire, even while sitting with them after a game undressing from our gear, they are generally very protective of each other. Even the bad ones get a lot of protection from their bretheren, while most coaches I know will tell you when another coach is an idiot and nobody tries to back that guy. I don't know why this is, but I've taken to not saying anything unkind about most umpires, even when I'm working as one. If I have any negative feedback, I limit it to the few officials who run associations, and they take it as constructive criticism from someone who can evaluate officials from both perspetives. As for the majority of officials, I've learned it is better to keep my thoughts to myself.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
That's why I never understood this unofficial fraternity.

Thanks PG, very level headed post and I'd bet, reflective of the majority of people.

The same unofficial fraternity exists in many places. Coaching, schools, police just to name a few. If we, and they, could, like gotwood suggested, of your quote...

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Let's honor the good ones and expose the bad ones

make that pertain to all walks of life, we'd be a much more gracious and respectful society.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I'm not into bashing anyone. Understanding that there are excellent and very poor umpires, I believe attitude goes a long way in everything.

There are enough p. poor umpires with bad attitudes out there to cause quite a mess. It sounds like some of those umpires who post here are very good. I just get kind of tired of the fraternity thing. Why the need to stick up for umpires you might not even know. How can anyone judge their abilty based on a messageboard? All we can go by is what we read.

Most coaches and players respect great umpires whether they agree on a decision or not. Not trying to be funny here, but I have umpires who are very close friends!

We were running a tournament a few years ago and always try to get the best possible umpires. So we hired a crew that did college and even some pro work. I was walking around the umpire dressing room and overheard them talking. The entire conversation was how they banged guys out of this game and that game. They left no doubt in my mind that this was the part of the job they enjoyed the most and were the proudest about. Guess it's kind of like hitting a grand slam!

Not saying all umpires are like that, because we work with hundreds of umpires, some that are outstanding on and off the field. Some people, including umpires, are into "power" more than others.

So to me, I think the bad umpires, the power hungry guys, hurt the good umpires. That's why I never understood this unofficial fraternity. Let's honor the good ones and expose the bad ones.

None of this is meant towards anyone who posts here unless they are one of those power hungry types that truly enjoy running a player or coach. Most of what I’ve read on these forums has been good stuff by some passionate umpires who seem to care about excellence. No need to bash, maybe we should be thanking them instead, for contributing here!

PG has his finger on the pulse of many things baseball and he makes some very good points about umpires...let me give it some due......

There are many excellent Umpires and many very poor umpires as well.......and it is the attitude they bring to the game that in my estimation determines the long term success of that umpire....

Trust me when I tell you that the umpires who have been here the longest and post most frequently are extremely highly qualified and excel at the levels they work...as PG so well puts it you can't judge an umpire from a message board.....

Let me put this way, there are plenty of Umpire websites that many of us go to that are umpire only...and if we didnt care about teaching and helping people understand rules and umpires, we could just go there and talk baseball with our peers....and stay out of the contentious nature of the parent/player/coach to Umpire relationship...I'm always appreciative of those that stay here and post despite that....

The aspect of fraternity in the umpire world is one that is more complex....we are in a common avocation most often bound together by associations and levels of baseball...this tends to bind us in a common experience.....in all fraternities there are good and bad relationships.....and on the field we are by rule bound to support the other without question....there is no one out there to turn to except your partner......and we have all been there when we made mistakes, saw something different or just flat out missed the call....trust me when I say that I hate missing a call....and it bothers me when I have.....it often sounds like the childish answer, but umpiring isnt as easy it looks.

as to the war stories that PG overheard, there is no doubt that there are some umpires who enjoy the combat between coaches and umpires....I am one who does not, yet when the discussion happens in the umpire dressing room.....I have my share of stories to share....some my own fault....and Ive shared many of them with the members here over the years...

PG is right that there are some umpires who are in to power....In my opinion, there are 3 types of people who become umpires.....

People who like the $$$
People who like the authority
People who love the game

As long as they do a good job, I don’t have a problem with any of them........as a matter of fact, I should probably add:

People who umpire for the love of the game and enjoy being responsible for the conduct of the game and want paid for it...........(I fall into this category).......

Now that being said, there those in all 3 categories that should not be doing the job.........

this is all just my .02 of course.......a good post by PG.....

This is such a "feel good" thread I have to make note of my experience with umpires yesterday.

We were playing in Providence RI at Brown University
The umpires were new to us as this was our first experience in the region.

Prior to the game, the umpire team joins us in our dugout to introduce themselves. the first thing they wanted to talk about was the health of the head of College Select, namely yours truly whom they had never met.Rumors were apparenly rifew regarding my health. I had a stroke some 6 weeks ago and they had been told Ithat I was in serious condition. NO TRUE as I told him because he was talking to the Head of College Select.

We continued our discussion and it ended with my asking them for a great restaurant because my staff and I left home at 6:30 AM and our second game would not be over until nearly 3 PM---they gave us a place and it was superb---one of the best we have been in this year.

I say " Thank You Blue" and they called two solid games

My experience with umpires over the many years I have played, watched and coached the game. The VAST majority of them are oustanding people who do an outstanding job. They umpire because they love the game. They enjoy what they do. They take tremendous pride it doing it right. No one feels worse than they do when they miss a call. They make hundreds of calls in a single game. Everyone of them can be right on the money and people will still b*tch. They can get every call right, miss one and thats the only thing some people will remember. They take c*ap the entire game from people who have no clue what is even going on. They many times are way under paid for what they do.

This sounds exactly like my old profession as a Police Officer. You can make good decisions in the blink of an eye under pressure with no one else to turn to. You can make one bad decision and that is what some people will remember and focus on.

No one dislikes a bad umpire more than a good one. No one dislikes a bad cop more than a good cop. Someone has to enforce the rules. Someone has to make these decisions. Someone has to put themselves out there and be willing to take the heat. Because of this I have a great amount of respect for the good umpires who the vast majority are. And because of this I never allow a bad umpire to change my perception of the rest of them. That is simply wrong.

I do not believe you can be a good coach and not teach your players respect for the umpires. I do not believe you can be a good coach and spend the entire game b*tching at the umpires or using them as an excuse for not winning a game. I have never in my life heard any coach, player or parent say "Thank goodness for the umpires today because of them we won the game today." But on the other hand "The umpires cost us that game" is used more than I care to ever hear. If your not going to give the umpires the credit for a win never use them as an excuse for losing a game.

When you come to the game as a coach looking for excuses the first people your going use as an excuse are the umpires. When you come to the game as a parent looking for excuses the first person you are going to use as an excuse is the umpire and the second is the coach. When a player comes to the game looking for excuses the same thing can be said.

Teach your players respect for the men in blue out there doing their job. Teach your players to never look for excuses but solutions. Never use the umpires as an excuse for failure. As a coach conduct yourself in a manner you want players to follow. Never allow them to see you using the umpires as an excuse.

In those rare instances when you have a clown working the game. This is an opportunity to show them how to handle these type of situations. Just like when they are stopped by the police for a bogus reason and treated in an unprofessional manner by a clown with a badge. Do you want them to do something stupid and end up in a bad situation? Or do you want them to learn how to deal with these situations in a manner that will allow them to walk away?

The fact is there are bad coaches, umpires, parents and in every profession in this world. That should not taint the profession. It is an honorable profession I have a great deal of respect for and appreciate. I have been tossed twice. Both times I regretted it. I allowed myself to lose control of my emotions. It made me feel better right then but later I regretted it.

When I become perfect then I will expect others to be perfect.

ok, the scenario about hundreds of people yelling at you....how would i like that?

here's one for you: how would you like to make your CAREER (not hobby, not after work fun-time) the way you feed you family be to work with kids and teach them about baseball and hopefully impart some life lessons along the way and no matter how hard you try you have parents, fans that you know...not anonoymous strangers that you'll never see again question everything that you do and the way in which you do it because maybe you don't "play the right kids"

how would you like to go to a school board meeting and defend your work in a public forum, how would you like to go home and tell you family that you lost your job and have to move because daddy couldn't teach "jimmy" how to hit a curve ball?

let's not act like it's harder being an umpire....IT'S NOT. coaches put their lives into this and when a game is over not only do they live with it the rest of that night/next day they have to come up with a practice plan to improve on what went wrong.

i know that's a lot of rambling, and please know none of that has happend to me (it has to many, many good men though) just wanted to throw that out there....many umpires need to understand that there is a reason that coaches get passionate and aruge for their team....THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON THE OUTCOMES OF THESE GAMES!!!!

The last thing I am going to concern myself with are people that are not in my dugout. My job as a coach is to coach my players to the best of my ability. To prepare them to win. Not only on the baseball field but off of it as well. The same things that allow you to be a winner on the field will allow you to be a winner off of it.

I coach hard. I coach my butt off at practice. I put everything I have into it because I want my players to win. I want them to be the best player I can possibly help them become. And I want to win - BAD. But I have enough sense to know the umpires could careless who wins. I am not going to give them credit for my team winning a game. I am not going to give them credit for a loss.

Every second your focusing on the things you can not control is a second you can be spending on the things you can. From my experience in this game the coaches that spend the game whining about calls, b*tcing to the umpires are using that as an excuse for their teams poor performance and the coach is trying to use the umpires as an excuse for not getting his players ready to play. How about this. Spend your time coaching your players and teaching them the game and you won't have so much time to use others as an excuse as to why I am kicking your a s s.

Nothing irks me more than seeing a team who has no clue how to run the bases. No clue how to hold runners. No clue how to run a relay. No clue on how to play the game. And the coach is b*thing about a balk call. Geez man the coaches that gripe about the umpires the whole game are the ones that are clueless the vast majority of the time. Thats why they are yelling at the umpires. Its got to be someones fault they are getting pounded. It can't be his or his players fault.

What about the coaches that do all that and still argue with the umpires?

I guess Bobby Cox doesn't "know how to coach"?

I will take lessons from Bobby Cox anytime

Do you think that would work at the High School level? I have never been fortunate enough to manage at the ML level so I base my posts on the level I coach at.

I just think we are getting way off track here, my original point is how the umpires are never wrong and as time goes on they are more and more combative and come into games with a chip on their shoulder....much like they see on tv in mlb games.

I could give you examples of coaches who spend an entire game complaining about every call. Coaches that look for confrontations with umpires. Coaches that try to intimidate umpires. Coaches that use the umpires as an excuse on why they went 0-3 in pool play and didnt play for the championship. The same coaches who instead of teaching players how to actually thow over to first complain about the balk call. Or the same coaches who instead of teaching their players how to actually play the game use the umpires as an excuse for poor play.

Watch a coach who see's a call at a bag that he feels he got a raw deal on a call. Does he calmly call time, walk out to the field and ask for an explanation and voice his opinion, or does he leap from the dugout with his chest blown out putting the umpire on the defensive right off the bat? At the same time this same coach never address's the fact that his left fielder never moved to back up a throw to 3B. He never talks to the catcher about dropping to his knees on a cb but screams about not getting the call. Or the same coach that gripes about not getting the call on the black when the ball pops out of the catchers mitt.

Coach your players and let the umpires do their job. If you get hosed on a call then handle it in a manner that you would want your players to handle adversity. I tell you what when the coach starts crying and whining the players start crying and whining. When the coach starts looking for excuses so do his players. Thats a fact.

You have no control on the quality of the guys calling the game. You do have control on how your team is coached and how you handle yourself. I do not see the umpires as my enemy. I do not see them as the guys that will determine who wins or loses the game. They are simply there to do the job that has to be done. We will adjust to their strike zone. We will overcome a bad call. We will take one if it falls in our favor.

If your looking for a fight you will find one. If your looking for excuses you will find plenty of those as well. I dont focus on the umpires. I dont have time to do that. It serves no useful purpose. There are just as many bad coaches if not more than their are bad umpires. The vast majority are great guys that love the game. And here is a fact. The vast majority of the umpires know the rules of the game way better than most coaches do.

Bashing umpires makes you look like a loser. Winners never bash the umpires because they want their players to get the credit for beating the opponent. Losers bash umpires because they need an excuse. There is no way it was my fault for not having my team prepared to win. There is no way its my fault. There is no way they were better than us. "Those guys cost us the game."

When I lose a game I dont say to myself "If only they had not hosed us on that call at 1st base." I think "if I had called for a sac bunt in the 4th instead of the straight steal maybe we would have pulled that one out." Of course its alot easier to to blame someone else.

I have never understood the bashing of umpires. No one hates a pathetic umpire more than a good umpire. No one. I have been hosed over the years with a bad call. But I have also been on the other end just as many times. Its part of the game. Bad umpires stick out like a sore thumb and they either work hard and get better. Or they fade away. Just like coaches and players.

The umpires that post on this site do so because they love the game and care about the job they do. Does anyone think for one minute a guy that didnt would be on here and want to help others and discuss the game if they were not? PIAA Ump through his posts over the years has earned my respect. The same with the other umpires that routinely post here. Stick around guys and continue to assist us. I have learned a great deal from you guys over the years and look forward to learning more.

coach may: appreciate your thoughts but it's still not the point of what we were talking about. you are going with the old "straw man" argument here. at no point did anyone say that you should shift blame from the players/coaches to the umpires and your scenarios are very basic and anyone who has ever coaches a game in his life knows to coach 1st....the point is that the umpires are so quick to bash the coaches and overlook that MANY of their colleagues are abrasive/not professional and always right....rather than the umpires "cleaning their house" you continue to say ignore them and that's just the way it is in baseball.....doesn't mean it's the way it has to be.

I respect your opinion. I have a different opinion but thats ok.

I think a lot of the problem is in the instant gratification that a lot of folks want.

Bad umpiring. We have all seen it. I'm sure that our umpire friends here could tell you stories ineptitude that they have seen that would keep us laughing for a while. Likewise all of us that have coached have seen others in the dugout that are nothing but an embarrasment to the idea of coaching.

It takes time to get rid of bad coaches, it takes time to get rid of incompetent umpires. Policing yourself means that you can't just instantly fire someone because they blow a call or two. Patterns have to be developed before discipline can be instituted. Coaches can't be canned after one blowup, there has to be a consistant pattern of abuse before someone takes action.

one of my routine visits on here is the umpire forum. for those of you who don't read there, you should. it has defined rules,plays in games that i have often thought were different.

thank you guys for posting in the umpire forum.
a valuable resource, we can't lose.

Once an umpire becomes a focal point in a game, it usually means he didn't do his job and has lost control of the game. An good umpire who does his job doesn't let this happen.

I still coach and play on the adult level and I still ump on occasion on the youth and adult level. The day I see a player or coach have a perfect day pn the field is the day that I will have a perfect game umping. We are all human and none of us get it right all the time. It's one of the only jobs where you can be successful 99.9% of the time and still be the biggest horses butt in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by bsballfan:
What about the coaches that do all that and still argue with the umpires?

I guess Bobby Cox doesn't "know how to coach"?

Comparing Bobby Cox to a high school coach is like comparing apples to cadillacs. Not even close to being the same.

I could list many things about how MLB players are adults who are responsible for their own actions while high school kids need to be taught how to act. I think those are a given so I'm not going to go into them.

Bobby Cox gets tossed because it's more "cost effective" for the team if the manager gets tossed rather than a multi-million dollar player. It's easier to overcome the loss of the manager for one game than it is to overcome the loss of the superstar player.

At the MLB level you get tossed you get to come back the next day - no harm no foul. You get tossed at the high school level then you are sitting a few games, school pays a fine that they may not be able to afford unless they have a car wash and probably have to take some sort of sportsmanship class.

In NC if you get three ejections of any type in a season then you are automatically done for the playoffs. We're playing a team this Friday in our first conference game that had a bench clearing brawl in their last game and had four players get tossed and they will not be participating in the playoffs. They were probably already in which makes it worse.

Do you think Bobby Cox would be getting tossed as much if the Braves were going to miss the 2010 playoffs due to his ejections? You can't compare MLB managers to high school coaches for many reasons.

If a high school coach wants to coach / act like Bobby Cox then he deserves what he gets. He is setting himself up for failure because it's not the same.

What qualifies you say...

quote:

let's not act like it's harder being an umpire....IT'S NOT

Not trying to be confrontational - just curious as to if you have umpired to know exactly how difficult umpiring is. I've dabbled in umpiring enough to know I don't want to do it.

Getting back to the original point of this thread - I agree with Coach May in that you got to focus on what goes on in your practice to prepare for your game. I've been in games that I felt we lost due to bad calls and even flat out cheated but it is what it is. You move on and try to prepare your team to be better next time so you can make better pitches, field all the balls in play and hit the ball where they aren't. I usually keep a small notebook in my backpocket to write down things we mess up on in the game so we can work on it next practice. I've never wrote down a bad call or anything because we can't fix that - we have to overcome it.

A good ump is worth his weight in gold and isn't paid enough. A terrible ump is what he is and I truly don't have a problem with a younger umpire who is making mistakes but is honestly trying to get better. I'll take that guy in a game over an experienced one who won't get in position or is lazy.

But here is my thing about this thread - we don't need people that are part of this hsbaseball web community to bash the umps that come on here who have proven themselves to be knowledgeable in the rules and provide us valuable insight as to part of the game that nobody truly knows but thinks they do.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I've dabbled in umpiring enough to know I don't want to do it.

As much as I like to step in and help in my community where I think I can...amen to that thought.

I'd be a great umpire if there were only players, but a terrible ump with coaches and fans. It takes a better man than I to do that job.

Keep in mind that we only know these umpires from what they post in the virtual world----how anyone can term any of them a good or a bad coach is beyond me--some of them may not even be real---the same goes for coaches

Bobby Cox getting tossed so frequently was part of the entertainment he provided for the fans (and his players) over the years. I guess if upper management thought he was a problem he wouldn't have been around so long. Comparing him to anyone is just plane silly stuff.

Often times when a manager or coach gets tossed he is sending a message to his team, I think in his case he got it across, this is your game and you can determine who wins or loses, not me. How many winning seasons did he have while not being in the dugout with his team? Plenty.

I saw sons college coach get tossed a few times by arguing a call, not because he disagreed with a certain call, but because the team needed a wake up. Those few times ended in a win. It was like, ok I am sticking up for you guys and doing my part, now you do yours.

Coach, good for you for starting this thread, there is a big difference between a discussion as to what makes an umpire a good one or a bad one (same with what makes a coach a good one or bad one), and coming here just to stir up trouble.

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"some of them may not even be real---the same goes for coaches"

Golly...I hope I have enough lapel pins for all of 'em!




Pass 'em around. Only one per ump or coach. Thanks!




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Oh how funny.

I actually got to give people here more credit than that, it's pretty clear who is here to help and give good advice and who is not. People are smart enough to read 9and between teh lines) and understand good advice vs silly stuff.

JMO

TPM

You can actually read umpires posts and make decision as to how good or bad or umpire they are?

The point is not are there good/bad umps...of course there are many in each category!!!

The point is that the umpires, both on this site and in real life, seem to always "have each others backs" and are so scared of being wrong.

Of course coaches, players aren't perfect either and the only people who expect perfection are the parents (although not towards their own kid) (joke) (sorta)

If I'm coaching and "get on" an umpire for his strike zone, whatever, does that mean i'm not coaching my team and calling him a bad person?? Of course not, it means i'm a coach who wants to help my team in any way that I can.

"Beating A Dead Horse". When you insist on talking about something that cannot be changed.