Impact on Team When a College Coach Leaves

2014Prospect,

 

Boy, that is a great question.  I'm looking forward to the responses because my son has not directly experienced it.  He's indirectly experienced it and seen opponent teams step up and play much better.  That speaks to results and I think you are looking for impact to the players or program.  Rumor has it that team morale picked up from the teams I'm familiar with.

I am interested in the comments as well. But some of it depends on why the coach leaves, or was let go. 

I think there are many different out comes depending on each individual scenario. I have never been directly involved in College. But their is a program in our conference that went from a bottom feeder to a top contender seemingly over night with tho old coaches players. I believe most of those players, would run through a wall for the new coach.

And as always it depends on the new hire. 

Son's JuCo coach who signed him was fired at the end of my son's Freshman year.  He had been with the program for 6 years and had been head coach for three years.  This was after having three winning seasons, but not advancing past the regional playoffs to the NJCAA WS.  From what I heard it was off field issues and nothing to do with the teams win/loss record.

 

One direct impact was there weren't as many recruits the following fall.  The new coach wasn't hired until mid-summer and I don't think he had much time to do any recruiting so the returning players and new recruits were what the previous coach had recruited and had returning.

 

The new coach had a totally different philosophy - more of a team approach than the previous coach.  The focus was more on doing what was best for the team.  He took a mildly successful program that usually barely qualified for the playoffs to one that was competing for 1st place.  His first year they ultimately finished the regular season in 2nd place (after leading it most of the season) and made it to the semi-finals during regional playoffs.

 

Son said there was different (better) attitude from his teammates under the new coach compared to the previous coach. 

 

I can't say the previous coach was "horrible" or "bad", but there definitely was a change in the team attitude, outlook and confidence under the new coach.

I think it was Hofstra (CAA) about five years ago. A new coach came in and released the entire team from their scholarships. He brought his own twenty-two freshmen plus transfers and walk ons. Imagine being an upcoming senior and released after starting.

If a coach leaves, the affected players should get a transfer waiver. Pitching coach leaves? All pitchers can transfer with zero sit-out problems. Hitting coach? Same thing. Head coach? Everyone.

 

So gross to see the NCAA bind players to coaches they have zero desire to play for.

My son is a freshman at a competitive D2 that usually makes the regionals each year.  The coach (who my son thinks the world of) has been with the program for 17 years.  This coach recruited our son when he was still injured, so when our son was approached by the coach of another school after he had begun to recover, our son said that he wanted to play for the first coach; that coach was willing to take a chance on him when he was injured.  We had been feeling like our son had hit the college baseball lottery...now we don't know what to expect.

My son went through this situation (3 years ago). The coach that recruited him resigned in mid-June after my son's freshman year "to pursue other opportunities."  The new coach was not hired until mid July. Several of the old coaches recruits asked for and received a release from their commitment (signed NLI) and found other opportunities. The new coach somehow brought one guy from his old school with him, and the old coaches 4 remaining recruits honored their NLI with the new coach.

 

 

The new coach had little choice but to go with the old coaches players in his first year because of how late he was hired (son's sophomore year).  The team went from a 31-23 to a 21-35 record that year.

 

The following year, when the coach did have a choice, he brought in 9 new recruits (5 position players and 4 pitchers) Most of the season all 5 position players started and 3 of the 4 pitchers got significant playing time with one in the rotation. The 4 old coaches recruits and the one the coach brought with him were and still are buried (my son's school has their own policy of honoring a scholarship for 4 years). The team struggled to a 21-34 record.

 

Last year (son's senior year) competition was more open, with some of the older players and new recruits beating out the new coaches first class (it was like every position was up for grabs in the fall). My son, who was a starting OF/team closer as a freshman ended up playing in a similar role for his remaining 3 years. 

 

On this years roster the 4 old coaches recruits are still there. None of them have received any significant playing time during their time on the team. The recruit the new coach brought with him did not come out for the team this year, but is still in school.

 

IMHO anytime a new coach comes in, you need to make sure and have a very frank conversation with the new coach (my son had that conversation right after the new coach was hired). You need to decide if you will be "one of his guys" Because you know for certain he will bring in "his guys" going forward.  

 

 

I think the effect on players and recruits may be affected by whether the coaching change is a passing of the baton to the long-term coach's designated successor or an expression of the school's desire to change the direction of the program.  But any coaching change should cause all players and recruits to be on their guard.

 

The coaching staff that recruited my son was fired and a new coach was hired 3 weeks before my son arrived on campus for summer school. 

 

In retrospect, the absence of communication from the new coaching staff in those 3 weeks should have clued us in that the coach's focus was elsewhere.  Few coaches have much interest in making their mark by developing their predecessor's recruits--it leaves too much ambiguity over who deserves the credit for future successes. 

 

Experience proved this to be the case.  Of my son's recruiting class of 15 players, one played three years and was drafted, and two are still on the team as seniors but have not played much.  Everyone else is gone--cut, encouraged to leave, or decided to pursue their fortunes elsewhere.

 

I would advise any player or recuit going through a coaching change to start exploring all other options.   If you stay, expect to be treated as a vestige of the old regime's failures or, if already an established starter, as a disposable transition piece. 

 

I might modify that advice in situations where a long-term successful coach retires at the top of his game and has groomed his replacement (e.g. Tanner to Holbrook at South Carolina)--if the new coach clearly reaches out and communicates that the love is still alive.  Otherwise, be on your guard.

 

P.S. Birdman's experience is not normal because his kid is a stud.

The last two posts sum up very well what can happen with a coaching change. I have only watched from a distance so I don't have direct experience other than it was a factor on where my son ended up going because we were aware of a change that might occur. If you are a established stud in a program there is likely little to worry about otherwise buyer beware.  

 

When my son was being recruited one of the programs was UCSB, the rumor mill was that the coach was on the way out. A new AD was hired and I asked the coach point blank how much support he thought he had with the administration. We decided to not accept their offer and went elsewhere and sure enough the coach was moved aside. They hired a very good coach, Andrew Checkett, and the program has made good progress under him, but I don't know what happened to the former coaches recruits. I believe 3Finger Glove's son was there so if he is around and see's this I am curious what happened with him.

 

For those in the recruiting process this has to be part of your due diligence when choosing a school. During our coaches meeting at my son's program, I asked point blank my son's current coach what were the odds of him staying since his program is very successful, and the former coach had gone on to D1 success. Sometimes things happen which a player has no control or can see coming, but do your homework when looking for a school.

 

 

Not sure if Gross is the words since both the parents and players are signing an NLI that is specifically stating that they are playing to sign at a school not for a coach.

That's fine as long as there is quid pro quo.  But it many cases the old regime's players are discarded. 

I would like to see actual proof that MOST of the time the old regime's players are discarded.

I didn't say most.  I said in many cases.  Read some of the posts above which indicate that is basically what happened. 

When the coach leaves it can roll either way for your player who was recruited by that coach or staff.... BUT that is true if the coach stays also. For my son, and the program he was in, it was the very best thing that could have happened (and it worked out for the old coach too)

Back in my playing days we got a new coach my jr year and he told me he looked at my stats and he'd recruited some middle infielders that would push me to improve and I was very motivated by that. He never showed them any favortism and I guarantee you he never worried about who would get the credit for wins; just wanted to win some darn ballgames.

not usually as good for the current players, as it is for the future recruits. 

Yes, our son signed a NLI with UCSB about 6 months before the existing coach was dismissed.  It was not a surprise, although we hadn't expected that UCSB would land a new coach with the reputation of Andrew Checketts.

 

Checketts was able to immediately add some new recruits in addition to roughly 10 who had signed in November.  Based on what I saw and heard from my son and/or his roommates, the coaching staff required significantly more time/effort from all the players than the previous regime, although the first year resulted in an almost identical record to the previous year.  Throughout each fall, Checketts frequently lists a ranking of all players, so everybody knows how each player is being perceived by the coaches.  I believe that these rankings showed no bias:  the coaches' ranking closely matched the overall perceptions of the players.

 

In other words, regardless of how they were recruited, the best players played, 

 

As for our son, his skill level and lack of shoulder and ulnar nerve health meant he wasn't even close to being one of the best players, and he didn't make the team his sophomore year.  Being cut wasn't a surprise, and he had plenty of time to consider what to do next,  He decided to stay at UCSB-- he had chosen it because he liked the school even though it was the lowest offer he received.

 

I think in general when a new coach is brought in, the expectation and usually the reality is that they will be able to improve the talent level on the teams.  That means that some established players will be supplanted by new recruits,

 

BTW, our son had offers from 5 schools.  By his sophomore year, only one of them (Washington) still had the same head coach, and the pitching coach who was the main drawing card for our son had already left by the time he would have arrived on campus.  Perhaps that level of change is atypical, but I think turnover among college baseball coaches is quite a bit higher than most high school players and their parents realize.

Yeah.  Trying to avoid a coaching change doesn't always work.  At the school whose offer I was silently hoping for my son to accept, they've gone through TWO coaching changes. And there are rumblings the coach at the school he transferred to may be on the hot seat.  College coaches seem to be evaluated just as ruthlessly as players.  No job security for anyone.

Sometimes trying to predict when/if a coach is in trouble doesn't work either. In my son's situation, the coach was a was a 7 year coach with a successful winning record. He was also an alumni of the college (as well as attending the prep HS of the college). I remember discussing with my son after he received his offer that the coach would most certainly be there all four years of his career because he was at his "dream job." 

 

After winning 30+ games during my son's freshman year he was let go. My statement couldn't have been more wrong.

It also strongly depends on the program in question. Marginal programs are more likely to see coaching changes, and the coach needs to be evaluated as well. Does he hop from job to job? Is this his first D1 job and he's looking to move up? 

 

Your son's ability may take all the leverage out of your hands, though. If he isn't good enough to play for a consistently T25 school where change is rare (and when there is change, it is usually a smooth transition - see Derek Johnson to Scott Brown at Vanderbilt), then you may have to suck it up.

 

Occasionally you may get lucky and land a Checketts, though.

College baseball is stressful

From the start of 2014 son's recruiting process to the time he stepped foot on campus this fall, there have been TWO coaching changes.  From what I have seen, and heard from other parent's of players, all is good if not better.  Son seems happy.  (now....can the HC just stay there for 4 years please?!!)

...another thing....

the new HC had been an assistant for a short time, but was not hired yet when my son committed.  So, he is not one of "his guys" (as you all say on this board).

 

I think that fact may have made my son work extra hard this fall to prove himself on the field and with the bat.  

It would seem that baseball coaches are very transient unless they are satisfied and/or are successful. We had this happen to us at 3 different colleges with various negative effects. 

 

Our first experience with this was when my son was being recruited out of HS by LMU in LA. The recruiting coordinator and assistant head coach Ted Silva was very interested in my son, having seen him when we were out on the west coast. He was preparing both an academic and athletic scholarship package so we could afford to send him there.

We spoke/emailed back and forth for weeks and he was just waiting on transcript evaluations and the amount of academic money they would offer. Then the phone/emails went silent. I think I was too patient because by the time I called the HC to find out how much longer it would be, that is when I heard the bad news. We found out that he accepted a position with Nebraska and had essentially left without following up on "on couple of recruits", essentially leaving us in the dark. By the time I found all this out, it was too late to get him enrolled because we had missed the extended cut off time for student athletes.  

So even though we liked him personality wise, he really dropped the ball for a couple of kids in the LMU pipeline. 

 

The next experience was when my son was recruited by a mid-D1 with a pretty reputable pitching coach. My son connected with him and was enthusiastic about signing with the team. Sure enough he enrolled only to find that the pitching coach had left for greener pastures, and was replaced by a PC from a mediocre D2. That alone was bad enough, but the first two practices the pitchers had with the new PC involved lectures on how to wear their uniforms (i.e. sock height), what language they could use, what walkout songs they could choose, chewing of gum, etc.

My son made the best of it being a Fr, but the staff who had been there and loved the previous PC were very upset. Needless to say many left the program as they felt he was not developing them. My son stayed until he tore is ACL in Fall ball, then decided to transfer out.

Our next experience was even worse when a top ten D1 recruited him, and the recruiting coordinator/assistant HC assured us of many things. Needless to say he wound up leaving and they brought in a new pitching coach as well. [NOTE- success can be just as disruptive to a program when the coaches start getting "better offers"]. There were other factors, so we pulled my son out of there.

Our current situation had an all to familiar ring to it. He was given both athletic and academic money, and the recruiting coordinator/assistant HC assured us that "no one was going anywhere".

[My son had some other offers, including at DBU which has a great PC & program, but because of all the transfers and DBU's required credit hours for my sons degree, we couldn't make it work] I mention this because when parents/sons decide to transfer, this is a big factor to consider if they have a difficult degree choice such as pre-med, engineering, etc.

Anyway my son chose his current college because he thought it would be the right fit and liked the coaches. Within 3 weeks this semester, the same man who verbally assured us no one was leaving, left himself.

Thankfully he was not the pitching coach, but there are rumblings on the team because he was apparently a very good hitting instructor, and handled many of the day to day operations of the team during practice.

 

Frankly this brings me back to some wise words from a long time respected coach, Red Berry. He told us that for whatever reason, baseball coaches cannot be depended upon to stay or even finish their commitments. That seemed like a very broad generalization. However with his experience having run a baseball academy for 44 years after he left the Phillies organization, he certainly had the gravitas to have his opinion respected. Despite getting great players and coaches(some current MLB guys)he seemed to constantly be having trouble keeping coaches. Many of us just assumed it was because of his demanding style and maybe even pay issues behind the scenes. But in retrospect it would appear if his generalization is closer to the mark than most would have imagined.

 

I imagine there are stats somewhere on the longevity of coaches in college, but I wouldn't know where to look for it.

 

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As I was reading this thread, I realized that of the 4 unofficial visits my son was invited to before he committed, ALL FOUR of these head coaches are gone or at other schools.  Sheesh.

 

And don't think that because a coach has been at a school for years and years that he isn't (or hasn't been) "looking".  I recently heard that a long term assistant at a top baseball school was being considered for a HC job, but the school apparently couldn't meet the salary demands.  Another HC, according to this board and others, has applied for other HC jobs over the years so I assumed he was looking to leave until another parent mentioned that every time he applied elsewhere he probably got a raise to stay. 

 

It is called the "coaching carousel" for a reason.

 

 

If a coach is successful and there's a better conference or a better recruiting environment (i.e. weather, talent hotbed)) don't expect him to stay too long where he is. Just like the business world the.coach is also climbing the ladder.

This actually happened to me.  I went to JuCo my first two years and was being recruited by some Big D1 schools.  So it was a very hard decision for me to make.  One of the main reasons I chose to go to Auburn University was because of the coaching staff.  Unfortunately, after my Junior season (my first year there) 90% of the staff was let go.  I was contemplating quitting or trying to transfer schools.  In the end I stuck it out and it all worked out great!  The new coaches were awesome and I learned so much that year and had one of the best years of my life.  I wish I would have had a more positive experience going into that year versus worrying so much over the summer.  I guess the take away from my story would be you can't worry about things you can't change so just make the best of it and if it turns out bad, then you can try to figure it out from there.  Just remember the new coaches are coming in with the intentions to make the program better, so it should be a fresh start for everyone!