How important is the catcher to the overall success of the team?
Your opinion
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Huge!
Coach May
Once again we agree---my dad was a semi pro catcher and made me into one at 12 years of age---to me the catcher is one of the keys to a team success on the field and I don't even have concern if they are mediocre hitters as long as they call and run a great game
Once again we agree---my dad was a semi pro catcher and made me into one at 12 years of age---to me the catcher is one of the keys to a team success on the field and I don't even have concern if they are mediocre hitters as long as they call and run a great game
I rarely see a really good team without a really good catcher. I think the catcher sets the tone for a lot of the intangibles of an entire team. If you see a soft catcher who isn't a leader, I think you'll see a poor team that is soft. If the catcher is a hard nosed leader, the team may not be great, but you can bet they'll play hard and compete like crazy.
I totally agree. The catcher sets the tone one way or the other. One thing I will have behind the plate is a tough kid. He may not be as skilled every year as I would like him to be. But he will be tough and he will lead by example.
I have never seen a team that I considered championship quality that did not have a championship caliber catcher.
I have never seen a team that I considered championship quality that did not have a championship caliber catcher.
A catcher makes the defense. A good pitcher is nearly useless with a bad catcher. A bad pitcher can be made good and a good pitcher made great with a solid catcher behind the dish. The catcher calls the ballgame from all aspects of the defense. He is involved in every play and must make quick decisions AND communicate those decisions to the rest of the team.
A solid catcher with medicore hitting skill is better than a solid hitter with medicore catching skill.
A solid catcher with medicore hitting skill is better than a solid hitter with medicore catching skill.
Its the most important defensive position on the field. Especially if they are calling the pitches.
I would rank in order of importance Catcher, Shortstop, then CF.
I would rank in order of importance Catcher, Shortstop, then CF.
quote:Originally posted by Walawala:
Its the most important defensive position on the field. Especially if they are calling the pitches.
I would rank in order of importance Catcher, Shortstop, then CF.
I agree. I would even say he is the most important even if he doesn't call the pitches.
quote:
I have never seen a team that I considered championship quality that did not have a championship caliber catcher.
Coach May,
Does get any clearer then that.
Being a hard nosed or tough catcher without intelligence and the demeanor to be selfless gives no advantage. If you mean hardnosed and tough in the sense that they play through all the pain the position requires and are willing to give themselves up for the pitcher in all cases then I would agree with you. But just being a tough guy does nothing for me back there. This is especially so if they have to exhibit that toughness to draw attention to themselves.
The best catcher will be one that the average person will not even pay attention to. He quietly goes about calling the game and protecting the pitcher and his team mates. He has confidence and displays that confidence through control of his environment.
Too many times I have seen catchers try to be in the spotlight and do things like throwing the ball away trying to demonstrate what they got. They make a lot of trips to the pitcher. Some are so hard nosed and into the game that they raise their arms in disgust on a bad call or bad play by one of their team mates.
So give me a catcher that is extremely intelligent, remains calm and confident behind the plate, in the dugout and with the team and he will get the most out of his pitchers. He has to block everything and stay/think one step ahead at all times. They will have the respect of the umpire, the coach and the team. They will lead through the example that you say is needed, but I am not sure that is called hard nosed or tough.
Catchers have to be humble, they have to know that at the end of the game the spotlight will be on the pitcher, not them (unless they raked,) and they have to acknowledge that the pitchers are king. Why? Because pitchers need that as they are not in the game every day and their confidence and poise depends on their psyche more than any other position.
The best catcher will be one that the average person will not even pay attention to. He quietly goes about calling the game and protecting the pitcher and his team mates. He has confidence and displays that confidence through control of his environment.
Too many times I have seen catchers try to be in the spotlight and do things like throwing the ball away trying to demonstrate what they got. They make a lot of trips to the pitcher. Some are so hard nosed and into the game that they raise their arms in disgust on a bad call or bad play by one of their team mates.
So give me a catcher that is extremely intelligent, remains calm and confident behind the plate, in the dugout and with the team and he will get the most out of his pitchers. He has to block everything and stay/think one step ahead at all times. They will have the respect of the umpire, the coach and the team. They will lead through the example that you say is needed, but I am not sure that is called hard nosed or tough.
Catchers have to be humble, they have to know that at the end of the game the spotlight will be on the pitcher, not them (unless they raked,) and they have to acknowledge that the pitchers are king. Why? Because pitchers need that as they are not in the game every day and their confidence and poise depends on their psyche more than any other position.
quote:Originally posted by Backstop-17:
........
Catchers have to be humble, they have to know that at the end of the game the spotlight will be on the pitcher, not them (unless they raked,) and they have to acknowledge that the pitchers are king. Why? Because pitchers need that as they are not in the game every day and their confidence and poise depends on their psyche more than any other position.
I would disagree to certain extent.
Each teammate is different, not every player responds to the gentle touch. Treat players all the same and you won't maximise everyone's potential. Some pitchers may respond to a ball thrown back on a bounce, while others will breakdown at the first sign of trouble and become worthless. A good
Tale of two catchers:
Catcher A:
First pitch of game comes in a good four inches off the inside of the plate. I call "Ball." Catcher turns back to me and says "We need that pitch."
He calls for it again. "Ball."
He shakes his head in disgust and says "We always get that pitch."
I answer: "Any pitch closer to the batter's box than the plate will be a ball, all night."
He calls for that pitch throughout the game, as if he was expecting me to change my call. Each time, it is called a ball.
In the 6th inning, after calling for it again and having it called a ball again, he turns and says, "You're effin' ridiculous." He is tossed.
Catcher B...Same game.
First pitch comes in a good four inches off the inside of the plate. I call "Ball." Catcher turns back to me and says "Too far?"
I answer in the affirmative.
Next pitch comes in maybe on the inside corner, maybe an inch off. "Strike!"
Catcher says, "Okay."
His pitcher then lives there.
Guess which team won the game.
Catcher A:
First pitch of game comes in a good four inches off the inside of the plate. I call "Ball." Catcher turns back to me and says "We need that pitch."
He calls for it again. "Ball."
He shakes his head in disgust and says "We always get that pitch."
I answer: "Any pitch closer to the batter's box than the plate will be a ball, all night."
He calls for that pitch throughout the game, as if he was expecting me to change my call. Each time, it is called a ball.
In the 6th inning, after calling for it again and having it called a ball again, he turns and says, "You're effin' ridiculous." He is tossed.
Catcher B...Same game.
First pitch comes in a good four inches off the inside of the plate. I call "Ball." Catcher turns back to me and says "Too far?"
I answer in the affirmative.
Next pitch comes in maybe on the inside corner, maybe an inch off. "Strike!"
Catcher says, "Okay."
His pitcher then lives there.
Guess which team won the game.
Having pitched to several catchers over my years of playing the catcher may not have always been the best ball player, but was always the most valuable player to the team. Although I must say I've felt that I have played with some very good catchers. They ran the defense, they often helped to manage the pitchers and fielders for the coaches. They related to the players and coaches and understood what the coaches were trying to accomplish and who needed to do what in the field. I have learned a great deal as a player about baseball from some great catchers. Whether pitching, playing 1st, SS or outfield I regularly talked to the catchers during the game. They were always in the game and studied the strengths and weaknesses of the other team players.
As a coach I've always spent a great deal of time with my catchers focusing on them serving the same type of role for the team, the coach on the field, working to get the strike call, managing the pitchers with a visit on ocassion and helping to keep the defense in the right place at the right time. We talked about what we were seeing on the other team in a way of appreciating and learning how to improve our game. Catchers have often understood the game and situations better than the other players on all of the teams I have been on or coached.
As a coach I've always spent a great deal of time with my catchers focusing on them serving the same type of role for the team, the coach on the field, working to get the strike call, managing the pitchers with a visit on ocassion and helping to keep the defense in the right place at the right time. We talked about what we were seeing on the other team in a way of appreciating and learning how to improve our game. Catchers have often understood the game and situations better than the other players on all of the teams I have been on or coached.
Backstop,
I know the point you are trying to make about a catcher than may "showboat" to show his toughness or individual skills.
Basically you are describing a coaching mistake in putting the wrong kid behind the plate. A catcher as you describe is not a catcher and any player showing up his teammates over an error should be a benchwarmer no matter the position.
Catcher can be humble to a degree when it comes to putting the team/pitcher ahead of his own needs (all players should do this) but not at the expense of losing command of the field and seeing what needs to get done happens. If the pitcher isn't doing what he needs to do to be successful, the catcher has to motivate him (by whatever means works with that pitcher) quickly or let the coach know the pitcher has lost it and to get the bullpen going. Ain't a popularity contest behind the plate.
I know the point you are trying to make about a catcher than may "showboat" to show his toughness or individual skills.
Basically you are describing a coaching mistake in putting the wrong kid behind the plate. A catcher as you describe is not a catcher and any player showing up his teammates over an error should be a benchwarmer no matter the position.
Catcher can be humble to a degree when it comes to putting the team/pitcher ahead of his own needs (all players should do this) but not at the expense of losing command of the field and seeing what needs to get done happens. If the pitcher isn't doing what he needs to do to be successful, the catcher has to motivate him (by whatever means works with that pitcher) quickly or let the coach know the pitcher has lost it and to get the bullpen going. Ain't a popularity contest behind the plate.
Nice post S. Abrams. The catcher should know who needs a pat on the back and who needs a kick in the rear. A good catcher is worth his weight in gold. He is the coach on the field. He has the respect of all his team mates. They see him taking balls of his forearms and never bit*hing and complaining. They see how hard he works in practice and how hard he works in games. They know when he speaks everyone shuts up and listens.
A good catcher understands that he can never abuse his posistion of "coach on the field." He is the glue. Real players understand this. If a kid is showboating he will not have the respect of his team mates or his coaches. And he will not be playing he will be showboating from the bench area. I demand alot of my catchers. Way more than any other posistion on the field. They understand why. And if they are not willing to have so much demanded of them they dont catch.
The pitchers want a guy they can trust , respect and know will work his butt off behind the plate.
A good catcher understands that he can never abuse his posistion of "coach on the field." He is the glue. Real players understand this. If a kid is showboating he will not have the respect of his team mates or his coaches. And he will not be playing he will be showboating from the bench area. I demand alot of my catchers. Way more than any other posistion on the field. They understand why. And if they are not willing to have so much demanded of them they dont catch.
The pitchers want a guy they can trust , respect and know will work his butt off behind the plate.
S. Abrams and Coach May,
I agree with you both a 100%.
As far as the humble comment I made, had nothing to do with how he handles the team on the field/dugout/practice, I was just adding that don't expect to be in the spotlight at catcher - and that is sometimes hard for any kid after playing their a$$ off and then watching for the 25th time the post game interview go to the pitcher. I think maybe one time out of a hundred the pitcher may say "If I didn't have my catcher back there...." But don't hold your breath waiting for it. A catcher maintains his self worth from within - and knows it. That is why he is able to go out there day in and day out and get the **** kicked out of him.
Catchers have to be the hardest working guys and the smartest guys out there, that is for sure.
I agree with you both a 100%.
As far as the humble comment I made, had nothing to do with how he handles the team on the field/dugout/practice, I was just adding that don't expect to be in the spotlight at catcher - and that is sometimes hard for any kid after playing their a$$ off and then watching for the 25th time the post game interview go to the pitcher. I think maybe one time out of a hundred the pitcher may say "If I didn't have my catcher back there...." But don't hold your breath waiting for it. A catcher maintains his self worth from within - and knows it. That is why he is able to go out there day in and day out and get the **** kicked out of him.
Catchers have to be the hardest working guys and the smartest guys out there, that is for sure.
Nice post Backstop. Look a catcher can play one hel of a game and no one in the stands may even notice. A SS can make one great play and everyone is talking about it after the game in the stands. The pitcher gets the win and no one outside of the catcher understands that him sticking that fb on the black for strike 3 on a 3-2 count with the bases loaded was the difference. Or that cb that he blocked in the third inning off his bicep saved the go ahead run from scoring.
The pride comes from within. And it comes from that pat on the back from his coach with no words even needed to be said. He knows you know and you both understand. And maybe its the opposing coach when the handshakes take place after the game saying "Heck of a job #15!"
The best catchers are not noticed by the casual fan at the game. The ball goes out of the pitchers hand over 100 times a game and it simply is thrown back. They dont notice the bruises the bent finger nails and all the rest. If they are noticing then the catcher is probably having a rough game. The fact is the nature of the job lends itself to a player that takes tremendous pride in the way he goes about his job. He understands that he has a job to do and how important that job is. Thats all he needs.
By being a tough guy , a hard nosed *** , by taking so much pride in the way he does his job , he leads others by this example. Your darn right I am going to get dirty and stop that ground ball between SS and 3B , if my catcher can block a fb off his arm with no one on the least I can do is my part as well.
Coaches love catchers because they understand. Coaches demand much from them because much is needed. They simply set the tone for the team. Soft catcher , soft team. There is one guy I will go to and get a feel for things. There is one guy I want and need imput from. There is one guy I will allow to change one of my decisions and he doesnt have to ask if its ok. And there is one guy I will never question in front of the team. The catcher.
The pride comes from within. And it comes from that pat on the back from his coach with no words even needed to be said. He knows you know and you both understand. And maybe its the opposing coach when the handshakes take place after the game saying "Heck of a job #15!"
The best catchers are not noticed by the casual fan at the game. The ball goes out of the pitchers hand over 100 times a game and it simply is thrown back. They dont notice the bruises the bent finger nails and all the rest. If they are noticing then the catcher is probably having a rough game. The fact is the nature of the job lends itself to a player that takes tremendous pride in the way he goes about his job. He understands that he has a job to do and how important that job is. Thats all he needs.
By being a tough guy , a hard nosed *** , by taking so much pride in the way he does his job , he leads others by this example. Your darn right I am going to get dirty and stop that ground ball between SS and 3B , if my catcher can block a fb off his arm with no one on the least I can do is my part as well.
Coaches love catchers because they understand. Coaches demand much from them because much is needed. They simply set the tone for the team. Soft catcher , soft team. There is one guy I will go to and get a feel for things. There is one guy I want and need imput from. There is one guy I will allow to change one of my decisions and he doesnt have to ask if its ok. And there is one guy I will never question in front of the team. The catcher.
Some great comments so far! IMO, the catcher is the most important position on the field. Anyone who's coached a great one and had to be without him due to injury, graduation, or ??? will tell you it has an incredible impact on the success of the team when they are gone. No player "touches" the ball more than the catcher.
And like others noted, the great ones are "quiet" behind the plate, have a very high BIQ, and work their tails off with little or no recognition for their defensive efforts.
GED10DaD
And like others noted, the great ones are "quiet" behind the plate, have a very high BIQ, and work their tails off with little or no recognition for their defensive efforts.
GED10DaD
Most important position on the field, IMO.
Good catchers keep the flow of a game going even in an informal softball game. So how important do you think they would be in a competitive baseball game? 
Agree 100%quote:Originally posted by GunEmDown10:
Some great comments so far! IMO, the catcher is the most important position on the field. Anyone who's coached a great one and had to be without him due to injury, graduation, or ??? will tell you it has an incredible impact on the success of the team when they are gone. No player "touches" the ball more than the catcher.
And like others noted, the great ones are "quiet" behind the plate, have a very high BIQ, and work their tails off with little or no recognition for their defensive efforts.
GED10DaD
Wanted to bump this thread. I keep a printed copy of this thread in the truck and have my son read it every week on the way to lessons, practice or games. I love the thought of him maturing under these requirements and the expectation of the position. Sometimes I catch myself getting a little emotional when I think how well it prepares him for not only catching, but for life. Kids that learn and live by these will work and fight for every opportunity presented to them.
There are positions other than catchers? (JK)
To me they ar the most integral cog in the machine. having a good/great catcher is pricelss. that is the one thing that is driving me crazy about my sons HS team."0" development of catchers and barely any time spent on the jobs they need to do. And it shows in every game we play/played. Very frustrating...but hey, the HC is an
Ex-Pitcher....what do pitchers know(what the catcher wants him to know)...LOL
To me they ar the most integral cog in the machine. having a good/great catcher is pricelss. that is the one thing that is driving me crazy about my sons HS team."0" development of catchers and barely any time spent on the jobs they need to do. And it shows in every game we play/played. Very frustrating...but hey, the HC is an
Ex-Pitcher....what do pitchers know(what the catcher wants him to know)...LOL
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Tale of two catchers:
Catcher A:
First pitch of game comes in a good four inches off the inside of the plate. I call "Ball." Catcher turns back to me and says "We need that pitch."
He calls for it again. "Ball."
He shakes his head in disgust and says "We always get that pitch."
I answer: "Any pitch closer to the batter's box than the plate will be a ball, all night."
He calls for that pitch throughout the game, as if he was expecting me to change my call. Each time, it is called a ball.
In the 6th inning, after calling for it again and having it called a ball again, he turns and says, "You're effin' ridiculous." He is tossed.
Catcher B...Same game.
First pitch comes in a good four inches off the inside of the plate. I call "Ball." Catcher turns back to me and says "Too far?"
I answer in the affirmative.
Next pitch comes in maybe on the inside corner, maybe an inch off. "Strike!"
Catcher says, "Okay."
His pitcher then lives there.
Guess which team won the game.
So worth reposting, and showing to high school catchers everywhere. I love it!
was fortunate enough to see McCann and Molina last night close, what a quick, quite game they ran. evey pitch got it's all from these two.
Also this season watched a HS catcher basically chosen to start for his arm and bat. 14 Over throws to third 2 to 4 trips to the back stop a game, and 1 or 2 pass balls a game , they are 10 games under 500, with 5 scholarship players. This coach doesn't know what you all do.
The #1 measurement of a catcher in my opinion is, how many called strikes does he get.
With all the worthless stats out there this one, called strike per 100 pitches would tell the story if you are or not, a championship caliber team, more than any other measurement of a catcher or a team.
Also this season watched a HS catcher basically chosen to start for his arm and bat. 14 Over throws to third 2 to 4 trips to the back stop a game, and 1 or 2 pass balls a game , they are 10 games under 500, with 5 scholarship players. This coach doesn't know what you all do.
The #1 measurement of a catcher in my opinion is, how many called strikes does he get.
With all the worthless stats out there this one, called strike per 100 pitches would tell the story if you are or not, a championship caliber team, more than any other measurement of a catcher or a team.
quote:Originally posted by showme:
The #1 measurement of a catcher in my opinion is, how many called strikes does he get.
With all the worthless stats out there this one, called strike per 100 pitches would tell the story if you are or not, a championship caliber team, more than any other measurement of a catcher or a team.
Changing the denominator to "pitches not swung at" would make your analysis a little more meaningful, but widely varying pitchers would still render it potentially (and very likely) misleading.
quote:Originally posted by dash_riprock:quote:Originally posted by showme:
The #1 measurement of a catcher in my opinion is, how many called strikes does he get.
With all the worthless stats out there this one, called strike per 100 pitches would tell the story if you are or not, a championship caliber team, more than any other measurement of a catcher or a team.
Changing the denominator to "pitches not swung at" would make your analysis a little more meaningful, but widely varying pitchers would still render it potentially (and very likely) misleading.
Called strikes are not swung at ... swings and misses have no bearing on this measurement, or who's pitching.
Although it could on whose pitching, some fine catchers just cannot get called strikes for lefthnders.
quote:Originally posted by showme: swings and misses have no bearing on this measurement
I agree. That's why I suggested you take them out of the denominator.
quote:Originally posted by dash_riprock:quote:Originally posted by showme: swings and misses have no bearing on this measurement
I agree. That's why I suggested you take them out of the denominator.
called strike by definition below.
American Heritage Dictionary:
called strike
A pitch judged by the umpire to be a strike and not swung at by the batter.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/c...strike#ixzz1uqHqUm7A
not understanding why pitches not swung at is a better term. I'm only interested in strike calls, pitches not swung at would include balls.
If your not getting a minimum of 10 % then three things, pitcher had a bad day or is not very good ump bad which is very rare, or your getting catcher walks.
It's an indicator to take a look. Over ten percent you have a catcher with potential.
I've seen some great things mentioned, but as a former pitcher, I've got to say that having confidence in your catcher is HUGE.
Deep in the count, runner on 3B. If I'm CONFIDENT by catcher will block / pick it, I'll throw that breaking ball in the dirt hoping for a strikeout. If I'm not, I won't. Or I'll throw it in the zone, because I don't want a passed ball...and imagine that..it gets crushed.
Deep in the count, runner on 3B. If I'm CONFIDENT by catcher will block / pick it, I'll throw that breaking ball in the dirt hoping for a strikeout. If I'm not, I won't. Or I'll throw it in the zone, because I don't want a passed ball...and imagine that..it gets crushed.
quote:Originally posted by showme:
called strike by definition below.
American Heritage Dictionary:
called strike
A pitch judged by the umpire to be a strike and not swung at by the batter.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/c...strike#ixzz1uqHqUm7A
You just cited a dictionary and "answers.com" to explain a baseball rule. That's pretty funny (it's because I'm an umpire. No offense intended).
quote:
not understanding why pitches not swung at is a better term
Your equation is "called strikes per 100 pitches." The denominator would include pitches taken (called), swung at and missed, put in play and fouled off. For your analysis to have any meaning, it should be strikes per 100 called pitches (or pitches not swung at).
Son was named the District Defensive MVP this season on a unanimous vote. Besides being very proud of him, it was good to see that others in the district notice and understand the role a good catcher plays throughout a season.
However, a pitcher was named District MVP.
We have to take our victories where they come.
However, a pitcher was named District MVP.
We have to take our victories where they come.
quote:Originally posted by Catcherz_Dad:
Son was named the District Defensive MVP this season on a unanimous vote. .
Very Cool.. Congrats
'
quote:Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:quote:Originally posted by Catcherz_Dad:
Son was named the District Defensive MVP this season on a unanimous vote. .
Very Cool.. Congrats
'
Thank you very much. We are extremely proud of him.
quote:Originally posted by dash_riprock:quote:Originally posted by showme:
called strike by definition below.
American Heritage Dictionary:
called strike
A pitch judged by the umpire to be a strike and not swung at by the batter.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/c...strike#ixzz1uqHqUm7A
You just cited a dictionary and "answers.com" to explain a baseball rule. That's pretty funny (it's because I'm an umpire. No offense intended).quote:
not understanding why pitches not swung at is a better term
Your equation is "called strikes per 100 pitches." The denominator would include pitches taken (called), swung at and missed, put in play and fouled off. For your analysis to have any meaning, it should be strikes per 100 called pitches (or pitches not swung at).
actually it's pretty common for me to get clarification from the umpire, seems to happen alot and Still not clear at all on this issue.
I'm only after strikes not swung at. To me and the dictionary as I read it means called strikes. A strike that is called, not offered at or swung at...and or called balls.
