Importance of HS Stats

Leave it be--- the scouts, both pro and college, see what they want to see in the player not the stats they read in the newspapers.

Why stats mean very little or nothing: two .400 batting averages may not be equal because of the competition

quote:

My husband keeps a few stats on my son (mostly in his head)

I'm biting my tongue here refraining from further comment



but hey, hitting nearly .520 isn't too shabby

and those 3 hits ... remember the day in the concession stand when ya overcooked all the dogs AND the field work day that hubby played golf

I agree with TR. But I will add, as well, that even if the stats were meaningful, they would not be for 30 or 33 at bats.

One more post for the big 7000 Tom!

POPTIME

Does it really mean anything at the end of the day????

This is a topic that gets debated quite a bit it seems, and I have two angles on it.

First, I readily admit that I keep stats on my son (not in my head , but on a pocket PC, and I match them with the guy who keeps the official book for the team). I keep them in case he is asked on a form for showcases or colleges.

Second, I would note, that not once in this entire year (and he has played almost 30 games) has he asked me what his batting average was. All he ever asks is, "did I play well?" Come to think of it, in 10 years of playing ball, he has never once asked me what his batting average was, even when I was the official scorekeeper and in charge of the stats for his 10-12 year old league.

Personally, that's the way I like it.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Does it really mean anything at the end of the day????

Yes...you need a hobby!

It means 7000 pearls of wisdom!

beezer

I have many hobbies --

And at the end of the day stats mean nothing other than for the family to talk about

gotta agrree that your HS stats are absolutely meaningless. Yes, for some reason questionnaires from many schools will ask for them, but college coaches know that the stats don't tell you the level of the competition, how accurately the stats were kept, etc. They want to see you play, your mechanics, personality, approach, attitude.

Besides most everyone moving on to college ball is hittin 400+ in H.S.

My son spoke to lots of coaches in the recruiting process, none ever asked about his HS stats.

I'd also add that I've seen parents question the hs coach on stat accuracy etc. the coaches never take that well and view you as "me, Me" kinda person and less than a team player.

Hi Folks,

To anyone out there that has been long time golfer, this is why the handicap system in golf is so much more complex now than it was 30 years ago.

I shoot 10 rounds on course A which has a par of 72. My average score is 78. I then play 10 rounds of course B with average of score of 91. The course is also par 72.
Couurse B is a much more difficult course with more hazards and tougher greens. This is why todays handicaps are based on the course rating system not on par.

HS baseball stats are very similar. They are a measuring stick for players on the same team, facing the same pitchers. But to compare Tom who hit .350 in State A's highest level of competetion to Bill who hit .500 in State B's lowest level would most likely lead one to an incorrect assement of which was the better player.

Also in a great many parts of the country, the weather limits the number of games. Here in NH most school have an 18 game regular season. There are some schools in the northern part of the state however who only schedule 16.

Hard if not impossible to evaluate merely on stats, TR has it right on the money!

Heybatter is exactly right!

"but college coaches know that the stats don't tell you the level of the competition, how accurately the stats were kept, etc. "

Great example in our paper today...A disputed no-hitter. There was no offical scorer, the case in most HS games (unless you are fortunate enough to have a person both teams agree upon),
the pitchers team credited one of their fielders with an error. The opposition credited the hitter with a base hit.

After going through the recruiting process with my older son, I found that HS stats are pretty much meaningless to a coach. And then recently my sophomore son was on a campus visit and met the asst coach/recruiting coordinator who asked him to update him on his season as it went along and send him his stats. So maybe it is somewhat of a barometer for a coach who has not seen a player play as yet.

All in all, I agree the stats mean little because of the competition level. Coaches are only going to recruit players once they have seen them play. But maybe for a long distance recruit, early in the process, it gives the coach a measuring stick of sorts. After all, they do ask for stats on their questionnaires.

the "home" book is official

soo, did he get the no-no?

Chairman,

I was hesitant to say on way to another because im not positive what rules NH uses to govern this. Personally, I have seen too many teams lets the players keep the book because of a lack of adults in the dugout. Not a good thing for the offical book!

If we say the home teams book is offical, then he gets credit for a 1-hitter.

I appreciate the input. For the record, my son doesn't measure himself by his batting average. He is much more interested in how he contributed to the team (boy, did I get lucky having such a self-less kid). In fact, his great despair in their game yesterday was that the seniors ended their season without a win..and he felt bad about that. Nevertheless, he has worked hard at his hitting. To be fair to my husband, he just wanted the record set straight. I am concerned that the coach will consider my son (who has never put his own interests before the team or anybody for that matter) to be suddenly self-absorbed. So I vetoed the idea of the letter to the coach. Period. Husband thought he got around the batting average thing by simply asking the coach if the number of AB's for my son was accurate...as he counted less ABs than recorded in the book. (His letter was sent before I could show him Trhit's reply) I'm still iffy on his querying the coach about ANYTHING at this point. And, yes, I have encouraged my husband to, in the future, keep his OWN book if he's so darned concerned about the numbers!! Thanks to all for their interest.

I'd echo what many here have said. Stats are waaay down the list in their importance to a recruiter. There's just no way to compare stats across the board. One person's hit is another person's error - that affects b.a. and e.r.a.

Of course, there are some objective stats such as homeruns and strikeouts, but even those can vary significantly based on competition and location of games.

Who's potentially better: A pitcher with a 6-1 record whose team routinely wins his games by scores of 8-6, or a pitcher who is 2-5 but loses games 2-1 and 1-0? Obviously the win-loss record does not tell the complete story.

Newcomer:

You will find, if you remain on this site for long, that two things often occur. First, your initial question does not get answered; and second, your question may be used by some for their own agenda: whatever that may be.

Briefly, the argument of the 'all statistics are worthless' crowd goes something like this. Statistics are inaccurately kept and don't reflect the level of competition played against; therefore, they are worthless. The strained logic is mindboggling but that horse has been beaten to death in other posts languishing in the archives.

To your question. Your husband appears to be trying to "correct" some inacccurate stats on your son as to at bats. There are a lot of reasons your son might have three more at bats than your husbnd has record or perhaps recollection would be better word. I will admit that 'keeping it in his head" is not the best way to do it but if, as you say, the difference in AB's would put your son "at the top of his league" in batting average even the most cynical among the doubters [and there are many on this site] might agree that talking to the coach about the issue would be helpful. If, in fact, your son has had a great year on an otherwise bad team I don't understand why the coach has not sought you and your husband out to get to know you better. Thought over carefully, discussed with your son, and presented to the coach in a repectful manner. duscussing the at bat situation won't harm anyone and should provide an opportunity to discuss your son's future with the team, what you can do mext year to help the coach and the team, etc.

TW344

Newcomer,

I think if you present your situation to the coach the same way you presented it here... You won't have a problem. It's fairly obvious you want to do the right thing. It does seem like a low number of ABs, though.

The difference between .400+ and .500+ batting average might not mean much to a recruiter or scout. However, being recognized as a league leading hitter might get your son's name in front of them. Is that enough ABs to qualify as leading the league in hitting?

Ultimately, certain stats (B. Ave. is one) won't mean much to scouts and recruiters when they make decisions. It is important that they know who he is, though, and stats can sometimes create a little interest.

Baseball is a game of stats. Everyone would be crying like crazy if their favorite MLB hitter lost the hitting title because of a scoring error. My guess is that they would care even more if their son was the player affected. It isn't the Big Leagues, but it is what he is presently doing and that makes it just as important.

Two things regarding Batting Average...

Recruiting and Scouting - Means very little except the possibility of drawing enough interest to cause someone to check out the player.

Individual Player - Extremely important, baseball is the biggest stat game of all. Nearly everyone who has ever played the game, including the best "team" guys, is interested in their stats. Otherwise, why keep them?

How does bad stats on a team which has many members with very good stats effect the players?

quote:

Originally posted by Homerun04:
How does bad stats on a team which has many members with very good stats effect the players?

In HS baseball, if the perceived best hitter is doing his job, then the guy batting before him, and after him should have excellent stats.

Most of the best hitters see the worst pitches. The choice then becomes to swing at junk, or take the walk. Most kids want to contribute, and occasionally swing at junk, which reduces batting average most of the time.

Average HS pitching makes average hitters good hitters. A dominant HS pitcher makes an average hitter look silly. HS stats can be skewwed.

This becomes more evident in summer ball, granted one plays against premier pitchers. On that stage, a hitter has to have the skills and batspeed, and that is what gets you noticed, not hitting .575 in the Spring.

I agree with 99% of what has been said. What would a scout rather see, a screaming line drive out that the shortstop has to leap for, or a dribbler past the pitcher for a hit.

I have spoken to several college coaches about this topic, and one of the most ironic things that I heard was that often times coaches see a lot of what they need to see about a hitter with a swinging strike. It gives them a good sense of bat speed, etc.

To play devil's advocate i will say that I think stats can be a big deal in certain situations. This one could possibly be one of them. I think that having the highest batting average in your league will possibly register on some coaches' radar screens. Your indiviual numbers may not matter, but how you do compared to everyone else playing at your level may to some.

Stats can be misleading not only because of competition level but other factors. For instance, I have just watched a players batting average drop from 452 to 385 in 6 games. He has only struck out 1 time and has hit almost every ball right on the screws at somebody. If a scout/coach is watching the games, they like the player. If they are watching the stats, they wonder about the player.

wvmtner, agreed. My son had a .480 batting average in the fall and a batting average of over .600 in the first third of his high school season, but then went into a huge slump for a number of weeks which brought his average down to .270. Toward the end of the season, our son shared that we as parents (and even his batting instructor) were unwittingly putting pressure on him to perform, and he was self-destructing as a result. We totally let up, got him a new bat, and told him he had a new, fresh start. He went 3 for 3 in his first game afterwards and got a number of hits in subsequent games that were able to bring his average up to .320 for the season. But the stat that the coaches and scouts will be looking at is really pretty misleading.

A parent that I know, who had a couple sons come thru the same HS program that my kid did, told me before my son entered HS that we should not worry about what happens in HS. Coaches have egos that get in the way of fair play, politics enter into the question. He said don't worry, get your kid into Connie Mack, Scout Ball or a couple showcases. Best advice we ever got. Our sons life changed when he signed very early with a great college all due to what happened outside HS. The coach gave no assistance at all and we never asked. We have always found that scouts go to HS games to specifically look at 1 or 2 kids. They come to scout and Connie Mack to find hidden talent.

There is life after HS.

my view is H.S. stats matter most...at the low end..

i.e. if you only hit .250 in HS, that stat will never make much of a case for you, so avoid using it.

still.......if you're hitting .500+ and can prove it, it not a bad conversation starter....with coaches etc

The two leading batting averages in my son's high school league are all teammates of his. The scorebook is kept by a junior who's only role on the team is to keep the stats. Coincidence? Not!

One of those kids won the league MVP, but he averaged nearly two errors a game in the field. OH, our school doesn't keep track of fielding stats, so those can't be considered.

High School stats don't mean much to anyone that matters when it comes to playing at the next level.

Take a look at the college football stats of Dave Winfield ( U. Minnesota) before he got drafted by the NFL, they are pretty impressive and will give you an idea of just how important statistics are....

I'm much more relaxed about all this after everyone's great posts. Just for the record, though. My son made all-league first team. None of his stats ever "made" it to the official league website. It doesn't matter. He knows how he helped his team and he's going to devote his summer to making sure he gets the exposure he wants. And that's what counts.

True example I know about.
High School shortstop hit over .500 entire 3 years in varsity. Player of the year, all everything Senior year. Not drafted, went to local JC where he put up good stats, JC player of the year Sophomore year. Transfer to small NAIA school, put up great stats, team MVP all conference still no interest from pro scouts.

Why? He was below mlb average in all his tools but running where he was average. He could play the game well though. I guess there will be no more Pete Rose's