In Need a Varsity Baseball Coach

OK, I'll take the job.

I think that Don Kush from the Hoffman Heat would be a great choice ..assuming he would be interested. Kush is one of the top travel coaches out there in that area and knows the talent . The Heat's success can be traced directly to the leadership of Kush . He can do the same at Bartlett . Hopefully , he will interview .

Bartlett has had good talent for many years. They have underachieved in many peoples opinion, now we will see if they were right and it was Rocco's fault.

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
OK, I'll take the job.

there is alot of expertise on this website...should be alot of applicants....

woodly...no doubt about it. the trick is to find out which of us geniuses would be able to keep it in perspective!

I figure that since I'm not too far from there, I'd be the logical choice. Not only only that but my resume includes my best season going 20-1 with The 9 Year Old Barrington Travelers a few years back.

I also figure I did a great job leaning against the fence second guessing our HS Coaches. It can't be much harder than that!

Seems BHS will look in-house and within District U-46 for an "interim" head coach.

Considering South Elgin plucked one of the best U-46 coaches (Jim Kating) from Bartlett and the Elgin, Larkin and Streamwood programs really haven't been much...uh-oh.

It's too bad for the seniors.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=239134

That's why alot of people think HS baseball is somewhat of a joke. Anyone can be the coach. The union makes you take a coach from within the school first and foremost. So not all the time does the most qualified or best candidate get these jobs. You can have Joe Torre apply for the job and John Doe teacher who never played baseball in his life. But if John Doe teaches at the school he gets first priority. Until that changes HS coaches and programs will always be questioned.

Nails hit it on the head.

It's a problem that school districts face when the priority of the teachers union is to advocate in the strongest terms, unqualified individuals over persons of compentence and experience. It sticks in my craw every time I hear a union rep talking about what's best for the kids. It's a lie.

I am sure Joe T can catch on as an unpaid assistant. He certainly must have saved some of George's money. Do the other sports operate in the same fashion and ditto for the private schools?

quote:

That's why alot of people think HS baseball is somewhat of a joke. Anyone can be the coach.

Nails your response is a joke.

There are also some very good HS coaches. Each school and district is different.

There is absolutely no denying that schools want to hire from within first. But that doesn't necessarily mean they won't find good coaches - I know many, many people who go into teaching because they want to coach. And a good deal of what coaches do is just like what teachers do - they just do it on the field.

I have a lot of respect for the people who are still willing to coach in high school - it's become a relatively thankless job, filled with whining, unrealistic parents and administrators who just want to keep the whiners happy, whether they are right or wrong (because if they don't the whiners turn on them next and then their neck is on the line). I'm sure the rewards are still there, but the downside is huge and certainly nobody is doing it to get rich.

Having said that, I've always advocated hiring the best PERSON for the job - don't try to fit a square peg into the round hole. Don't try to turn someone into a coach just because he or she is a teacher. And that goes both ways - not all coaches are going to be great teachers either. So hire the best teachers and hire the best coaches, and if they happen to be the same people, great. If not, don't try to make us believe that they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Nails:
That's why alot of people think HS baseball is somewhat of a joke. Anyone can be the coach. The union makes you take a coach from within the school first and foremost. So not all the time does the most qualified or best candidate get these jobs. You can have Joe Torre apply for the job and John Doe teacher who never played baseball in his life. But if John Doe teaches at the school he gets first priority. Until that changes HS coaches and programs will always be questioned.

You just described how jobs are dispersed in the private sector as well so why should obtaining a high school baseball job be referred to as a joke.

my3, RC51, great responses

Playball- great minds think alike

Nails, so, here is your chance to enlighten all of us "jokes" as to what your credentials are that would enable you to pass judgement on high school coaches.

Sure, there are some guys that are poor coaches. Just like there are some workers IN EVERY OCCUPATIONS in the world who aren't gifted at particular jobs. For the most part, my colleagues are top notch. At least that is how it is in our area. Perhaps we're not the norm. I can tell you this, those poor coaches in my area don't last long. Of course you might want to ask me what my credentials are to judge. You go first!

As an aside, I'm giving a presentation on Coaching to coaches of all sports at our county institute which will be in a couple of weeks. I wonder how some posters would fair with regards to that presentation. The topic will cover several facets of coaching including a segment called, "Why Coaches are Unsuccessful." More on that after my presentation.

(Of course, one my question the intelligence of our regional superintendent of schools to ask some "joke" to give such a presentation.)

I have the utmost respect for High School coaches. I guess I used the wrong word and you guys on here love singling out a word or taking a sentence out of a paragraph and throwing a new meaning on it, rather than take it in the context of what was written. Simply put, there are great HS coaches out there who spend a ton of time with the kids and students and don't get enough credit for how much time they put in. But there are a bunch of others that got that job just because they wanted the stipend, don't do anything for the kids in terms of contacting colleges, trying to get them better, etc. They just coach to coach and when that season or practice is done they are done, they did it for the money and got the job over someone that might have been more qualified just because they were in the district. I could go on with about 10 stories on this but I am sure you all would get bored so Coach B25 or Playball, you guys are probably great coaches but don't take it personal toward yourself, you know what I am saying is right. The district does not look outside it's own union when hiring people.

I know of parents that had kids in the program that applied for the coaching job and took it away from a guy that was a guidance counselor or someone that did it on the side cause his other job allowed for it. But those parents worked in the school, knew they would get first priority over these guys even though they were seasoned coaches and wanted to just coach their kid and let the politics play a role. So please don't act like I am painting a broad brush, talking about you in general, and that there isn't truth to what I say. I seen it and think it is a dumb rule. Private schools don't do this, they hire qualified guys that aren't necessarily teachers in their schools. NOt all public school or suburban schools do this and the kids are left with a bad experience and someone that is doing it for the wrong reasons. This is especially true at the lower levels where the coaching is needed most. More than likely it's a teacher that wants the stipend that hasn't even played the sport they are coaching just so the school can fill the position and the guy or girl can get that extra stipend. They should give it to someone qualified no matter who they are, especially if they want it, rather to someone who never been involved with the sport and is teaching kids at the freshman or sophmore level which is their prime development years.

Nails, it isn't that "I love singling out a word." It is offensive. I bust ***. My fellow coaches do. At least the ones in my conference and in conferences our school plays. We take a lot of pride and then, when not in competition against each other, have formed a coaching association where we get together to discuss baseball. We bring speakers in from all over including many college coaches.

Nails, I've never said I was a great coach BUT I have coached great kids. You see, the trick then is to know the game, know your opponent and know kids. You have to be able to get the most out of each of them. Take 18-22 kids and have them function like one heartbeat. I've coached against great baseball men. I've kicked their ... They weren't great coaches. I've coached against lesser baseball men BUT they've had that ability to get more out of their kids than most. It isn't as simple as saying that a school hires from within and so, they aren't any good without that impressive resume. I was once a reject from another district. I was blessed to get rejected. I ran into some great kids and parents at another school that made me look real smart. However, I'm sure that someone somewhere thought that they were getting the short end of the stick. So it is with coaching. BTW, I can't name one coach in our area that I think is doing it for the money. Maybe we're atypical.

quote:

BTW, I can't name one coach in our area that I think is doing it for the money.

Who would seriously go through the stuff high school coaches go through "for the money?" There isn't enough money that somone would want to go through coaching to earn that $500 or $1000 a year...

On the other hand, I can think of one school in our area who brought in a very successful baseball man to coach their team last year. New Athens High School had a former Cardinal pitcher, former Gateway Grizzlies manager with one league championship, etc (name escapes me currently)--he wasn't a teacher. But he knew baseball! Lasted all of a month MAYBE...

Your area might be different but I am sure you can talk to abunch of parents on this board or around here that have HS coaches that are doing it just for the money. The problem however, isn't so much with the varsity as it is in the lower levels where the teaching is done. Alot of time they can't find baseball, basketball, volleyball guys that want to do it at that level and they won't go outside the district so they find a younger teacher that wants extra money that might not have even played the sport to coach it. The better HS programs you will see has good baseball guys coaching at the lower levels, unfortunately that doesn't happen as often as it should. it's just facts and how the system works, wish they'd hire from outside the school. Not sure what private sector does this, as mentioned earlier, but coaching is different than teaching.

There's some kids that just play in the summer and refuse to play in HS cause they don't agree with the coache's. Now I think that's a little extreme but it has and is happening.

quote:

but coaching is different than teaching.

I disagree. Coaching IS teaching. It's just that some teachers are not good coaches just like some good coaches are not good teachers.

your right, i meant to mean more that they shouldn't limit their coaching jobs to teachers that teach at that school. I can see giving lunch duty to teachers in that school to make more money but coaching should be the best candidate that you feel confident in regarless of if he's a teacher there or not.

Nails huh?

haha, meaning that there's plenty of things to do where teachers can make extra money. Like lunch duty. Coaching they should get the best candidate and there's plenty of coaches, mainly at the lower levels that aren't very qualified doing it for the money. They should change that rule.

Nails... seriously? LUNCH DUTY? FYI - all teachers in every school are required to do a variety of supervisions as part of their job, whether it be lunch supervision or study hall supervision or whatever - that's all part of the job. Coaching jobs do pay a stipend, but seriously, if you think the $6000 or $8000 a year (which is what our head coaches earn in our district) is enough to motivate someone to do a job that they don't love, then you're delusional.

I am not sure about the "rules" on hiring outside coaching and what they can or cannot do... maybe Playball2 can answer that, but I really do NOT want a non-educator with access to my kid's educational file.

Maybe they should hire "outsiders" to work the lunch rooms so you can see the kind of garbage us teachers put up with everyday. $18 a day - try it and see how much you enjoy breaking up fights between kids with weapons and twice your strength. Don't need any qualifications to do that......

i'm not going to get into a debate about teachers, but i'd think lunch duty would be something you do cause you work for the school but they pay you for it!!! And to say that 6k-8k is not a good stipend for a 2 month season is crazy. That's great money for that job and that's why people want to do it and sign up for it. I don't think a non-educator whose a coach would have access to the kids' file but even if he did so what. College coaches aren't teachers in the school, they are paid to coach. So your points make no sense really.

Entering my 22 or 23 year of coaching basketball. Didn't make the high school team until my junior year and was thrown off the team before the first game. (Bad temper) So, I guess I fit the bill of someone that never played. Yet, my coaching record in basketball is almost equivalent to my coaching record in baseball if you factor in all levels. Good teachers can coach. Good coaches can teach. While you guys might disagree with that, I think it true but then again who am I.

The statement about teaching being at the lower levels is also questionable at best. Teaching is a a daily if not hourly if not minute to minute thing. I never looked at varsity players as the complete package. They had a lot to learn and a short time to learn it. Teaching the game is something that I enjoy. Of course, I'd probably teach it differently than others. Whether that would be better than others would be in question.

Now about that big money you cited. 6k - 8k. We don't get that around here. Not close! Also, end of February to first week of June - does that equal 2 months?

Nails, there is a fine line between ignorance and stupidity.

It seems that there is this "assumption" out there that college coaches are all better, for whatever reason, than high school coaches. Buyer beware. Come see the zipper on my arm & I did not get it from my high school coach. There are good & bad coaches everywhere - kind of like bosses.

To paint all Coaches with the same brush is of course ridiculous.

There are good coaches, there are average coaches and there are lousy coaches. There are coaches who care when they are blessed with a lot of talent and coaches who are motivated more when they have little talent.

There are coaches who do it for the money. Stipends up to 8-10 K plus revenue for summer league and camps can drive it up considerably. There are coaches who do it just because they love the coaching, teaching, managing and the competition. Some just love the game and would do it for free .... I would at least as long as I could...but they deserve to be paid.

Some coach on lower levels just because handling an extra-curricular activity is required to get a job as a teacher. Some lower level coaches move on because they may be more qualified than the head coach and see the futility of the program.

There are coaches who take pride in the kids they coach and help them to continue on at the best or highest level that they can. There are coaches who use the "lack of D-1 Talent" as an excuse for not winning enough, and of course are not going to help them get to their highest level because having that excuse wouldn't fly if the kids on mediocre teams constantly went on the play D-1. It's funny how a school can put out D-1 talent year after year and have kids drafted often under one coach suddently drop down to a school with very few D-1 players and draftees with the only change being the Coach.

There are coaches who want kids to play in their program and realize it's for the kids. Those coaches have kids who want to play for them. There are coaches who aren't going to do anything to get kids to be part of their program and say things like I can't help it of they want to play LaCrosse...even if none of them ever did.

It's the luck of the draw.....go to a school with a good coach or be stuck at a school with a bad or indifferent coach. You aren't going to change what is there........most AD's and administrations cover each other's back and aren't looking to admit they have the wrong person in a job unless they really are a bad guy who is doing unacceptable things.

CoachB and Playball.......I know a school where you both could win 30 games a year.....year after year. All you have to do is be yourselves and the kids would be there....just because you care.

quote:

And to say that 6k-8k is not a good stipend for a 2 month season is crazy.

I think this is the issue... some coaches work 2 months and make 6K-8K, those are the ones that are the problem. Myself, I coach those two months for my much less than 6K-8K, then I run summer league for no pay. In the fall, I help kids with their college searches and coach football. Once football is over, we are in the weight room 4 days a week after school until the season starts. Literally, the only time I am not coaching baseball is from the end of summer ball until the end of football. So it can be a 2 month job, (although end of Feb to the beginning of June is more than 2 months) but if it is to be done properly, it is more like a 10 or 11 month job.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
There isn't enough money that somone would want to go through coaching to earn that $500 or $1000 a year

Bulldog,
When I interviewed for a coaching position in our area several years ago, the offer was 10 times higher than your estimate and that was for an underlevel position, not HC.

Even at our school there are examples of great coaches from within and lousy coaches from within. The issue is twofold,

Why isn't the most qualified man always hired?
Why isn't the obvious lousy coach fired?

IMHO, too much of the answer rests with the teachers union and the situation lacks balance.

I don't think the Union is the problem. We have had numerous tenured-coaches let go at our school for a variety of stupid reasons. The Union had ZERO say in the final decision and has no power over those coaching assignments.

"The good old boys network" is more likely the root of the problems.

Point of information. In our district, the coaching jobs HAVE to be offered to district employees that apply before they can go outside the district. It limits the search. Nails made it seem like they offer it to teachers that work at the schools by choice. That may or may not be the case.

I certainly see the point that if there is not a qualified person at the school, then you should look outside for that person. Part of the problem with that is finding someone who is both qualified and has a

quote:

Bulldog,
When I interviewed for a coaching position in our area several years ago, the offer was 10 times higher than your estimate and that was for an underlevel position, not HC.

I don't know what it is exactly, but I think around here it's something like 3-9% of a base salary depending on the sport and level. I think the set base salary for that in my school district is $33-35,000. So it's still only 2, maybe 3 thousand a year. For the hours they work, it's not worth it unless they truly love the game.

Something happened and my whole post from above didn't go through...

quote:

Originally posted by BCRockets:
I certainly see the point that if there is not a qualified person at the school, then you should look outside for that person. Part of the problem with that is finding someone who is both qualified and has a job that allows them to be done at 3 to go to practice and games every day.

Myself, I would not want to coach at a school I did not teach at. I feel that the daily contact I get with the kids seeing them around school and having them in class helps me be a better coach. I couldn't imagine dealing with grade problems, discipline etc., if I didn't work at the school and have access to their teachers and administrators on a daily basis

CPLZ, Bulldog19's Dad is a baseball coach in this area. If you don't mind, what was the salary and where was the school? I would offer this. The school distric I coach in pays a base for coaches which is exactly what Bulldog19 suggest. Then, after you have coached for a few years you get "years" based upon your experience at the school in that sport. It helps some. However, coaching pay in these parts is not high unless you are at a very exclusive few schools.

I don't intend to highjack this thread and so, if you decide to not answer, I'll understand.

FastballDad, your previous posts was very nice!