Infield Fly NOT CALLED- Correctable Error?

NotThatGuy posted:

Situation: 1-0 game, batting team in lead, 0 outs, bases loaded, pop-up (at least 25' in air) drops at feet of SS, 2B and P behind mound. No call of "Batter Out - Infield fly" by either official. Runner at 3rd breaks to home. SS throws to C at home to force runner. Runner at 2nd goes back to 2nd where runner from 1st is standing. Runner at 2nd does not touch occupied 2nd but is caught in rundown between SS and 3B and reaches 3rd safely without being tagged nor was bag tagged on a "force". Batter is at 1st, runner previously at 1st is now at 2nd and runner from 2nd is at 3rd.

Umpires confer, call runner from 3rd out on force at home, call runner from 2nd out on force despite his successful avoidance of tag and no force tag at 3rd.

Question: Is this a correctable error and if so, would run scored by runner at 3rd count? Field official informed batting team's coach that he "blew the call"; plate ump deemed the pop-up uncatchable!!

Batting team won ball game 1-0, but this play could have made the result different.

When you ask if "this" is a correctable error, what are you referring to?

The non-call of infield fly? The umpire judged the ball not catchable by ordinary effort from players at that level, and subsequent events confirmed his judgment. Hard to see how that non-call is an umpire error of any type.

Calling out the runner from second on a force when the base was not tagged? That's a judgment call. It's reversible if the umpire who made it decides to change it based on reconsidering what he saw or information he receives from his partner. It's not protestable as a misapplication of the rules because the force was in effect.

Infield fly calls are reversible when the umpire calls infield fly in a situation in which the rule does not apply, such as runners on first and third but not on second. In situations like this, players are expected to know it doesn't apply and execute their responsibilities accordingly. The batter-runner should keep running in case the ball is dropped to prevent a double play.

If an umpire doesn't call an infield fly when he should and the ball is intentionally dropped (doesn't have to be touched, unlike other intentionally dropped batted balls), it's a dead ball, the batter is out, and the runners return.

If an umpire doesn't call an infield fly when he should and the ball is unintentionally dropped, you get the chaos the rule was designed to prevent, and everyone has to live with it.  You can't go back and retroactively make an infield fly call because the ball remains live after an infield fly, so you can't pretend the subsequent live action didn't happen.

Does this help?

Nice explanation.

If this is a HS game, then it's up to the participants to know the circumstances.  (Yes, it's one of FED's stranger rulings).  So, the batter should have been out, and any other outs depend on whether the runners were tagged -- there are no force plays here.

Here is the FED case play supporting this:

10.2.3 SITUATION G: With R1 on second and R2 on first and no outs, B3 hits an infield fly, but the umpire fails to call "infield fly." is the infield fly in effect or not? RULING: Even though the infield fly rule was not announced by the umpire, it is still in effect. Both teams have the responsibility to know when conditions exist for an infield fly.

Under OBR, the general interp is that if the defense gets zero or one outs on the play, the play stands.  If he defense gets two or three outs, then go back and enforce the (likely) outcome of the infield fly.  The reasoning here is that the rule is designed to protect the offense, so only if the defense gets "more" outs than would be likely is there anything to do.  In the OP, it's hard to tell whether there was really one out or two -- I think two, so call BR out and return all the other runners.

This was a high school game. Field ump acknowledged he "blew the call". Runners did not try to advance until pop up landed on ground untouched. Both umps conferred and made the rulings as outlined: runner on 3rd declared out by force at home, runner at 2nd declared out by force at 3rd despite no tag on rundown and no tag at unoccupied bag for force out. Batter safe at 1st, runner from 1st safe at 2nd. Our position was in keeping with ball declared dead, batter out, run scores, runners at 2nd and 3rd OR bases remained loaded as runners advanced only after ball fell to ground surrounded by SS, 2B and P. Fortunately the calls did not change outcome of game.

My experience coaching is in basketball where the "correctable error" rules exist.

NotThatGuy posted:

Both umps conferred and made the rulings as outlined: runner on 3rd declared out by force at home, runner at 2nd declared out by force at 3rd despite no tag on rundown and no tag at unoccupied bag for force out. Batter safe at 1st, runner from 1st safe at 2nd. Our position was in keeping with ball declared dead, batter out, run scores, runners at 2nd and 3rd OR bases remained loaded as runners advanced only after ball fell to ground surrounded by SS, 2B and P. Fortunately the calls did not change outcome of game.

 

You were both wrong.

Am I correct? FOR FED RULES. I believe this would be the correct ruling; IFF batter is OUT! (THERE ARE NO FORCE OUTS) Runner from 3rd tagged up and scores, runner from 2nd safe at third base and runner from 1st safe at second base. One run scores, runners at 2nd and 3rd. 

We're in YHTBT territory, but I'm not persuaded this was an infield fly situation:

--Nobody got to the ball, which is plausibly not an ordinary-effort catch in a bases loaded nobody out situation with corners up and middle infielders playing back on a not-very-high (25'-ish per OP) fly right behind the mound.

--There was a difference of opinion between the plate umpire, who decided in real time that it was not an IFF, and the base umpire, who decided after the fact that it was an IFF, but whose probity is suspect given his willingness to admit to a coach that he blew the call.

noumpere posted:

If this is a HS game, then it's up to the participants to know the circumstances.  (Yes, it's one of FED's stranger rulings).  So, the batter should have been out, and any other outs depend on whether the runners were tagged -- there are no force plays here.

 

Here is the FED case play supporting this:

 

10.2.3 SITUATION G: With R1 on second and R2 on first and no outs, B3 hits an infield fly, but the umpire fails to call "infield fly." is the infield fly in effect or not? RULING: Even though the infield fly rule was not announced by the umpire, it is still in effect. Both teams have the responsibility to know when conditions exist for an infield fly.

 

Under OBR, the general interp is that if the defense gets zero or one outs on the play, the play stands.  If he defense gets two or three outs, then go back and enforce the (likely) outcome of the infield fly.  The reasoning here is that the rule is designed to protect the offense, so only if the defense gets "more" outs than would be likely is there anything to do.  In the OP, it's hard to tell whether there was really one out or two -- I think two, so call BR out and return all the other runners.

Noumpere, 

Rule 10.2.3 pertains to duties of the umpire in chief. What part of that rule does the Situation G case pertain to? Rectifying a situation in which an umpires decision that was reversed placed a team at a disadvantage?

In this case, the UIC never reversed the call.

The fly ball was definitely a pop fly. It was not a blooper. The fielders did not communicate, hence the ball fell harmlessly to the ground in their midst. Any of the three could have caught it. The at bat team's runners did not advance from their bases until they realized no IFF call had been made and the spectre of force outs loomed. Two outs were recorded, force at home, force (?) at 3rd.

My question has been answered multifold and I assume, for future reference, that the proper correction, when the dust settled from all the action, should have been;

"Under OBR, the general interp is that if the defense gets zero or one outs on the play, the play stands.  If he defense gets two or three outs, then go back and enforce the (likely) outcome of the infield fly.  The reasoning here is that the rule is designed to protect the offense, so only if the defense gets "more" outs than would be likely is there anything to do."

Batter out, no runs scored, bases remain loaded.