Infield Fly Rule

It is the situation (and not the umpires call, or lack thereof) that determines an infield fly. I hope R1 was tagged, because he was not forced.

Yep. Really. (BRD)If a pop up in the infield is an infield fly by rule but the umpires fail to declare it, the batter is out anyway since both teams "have the responsibility to know when conditions exist for an infield fly" (case book 7.4.1g and 10.2.3g) "The situation determines the out, not the declaration."

In your situation it was declared when they pointed. However, with all that said, If they had announced it very loudly, problems would have been avoided. Sometimes nobody hears it even when you do announce it. I had this happen yesterday when I called it from my infield position. No one heard me cause I was facing the outfield.

Pointing up is indeed the signal that an infield fly has been called (Page 71 in the 2012 FED rule book). I always try to look for that during a possible infield fly rule. In addition to what Forest Ump said, sometimes you cannot hear the umpire due to wind, crowd noise, etc.

I hear you guys. However, the umpire told me he has no obligation to make a verbal call. I completely disagree. Rule 2.19 specifically states the umpire will "announce" infield fly for the benefit of the runners. I have no problem with the idea that crowd noise, wind, etc can obscure that "sound". My issue is that he stated to me that he doesn't have to say a thing. My interpretation is that the word announce definitely implies more than a hand signal.

quote:

Originally posted by johnsonroj:
However, the umpire told me he has no obligation to make a verbal call

Of course he does, just as the players have an obligation to know when an infield fly exists, even when the umpires are asleep.

Forrest Ump... that's one of the funniest tag lines i've ever seen!

The fact the kid "dropped" the ball kicks in a whole nother set of circumstances doesn't it???

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
The fact the kid "dropped" the ball kicks in a whole nother set of circumstances doesn't it???

Only that runners are not required to tag up.

quote:

Originally posted by johnsonroj:
I hear you guys. However, the umpire told me he has no obligation to make a verbal call. I completely disagree. Rule 2.19 specifically states the umpire will "announce" infield fly for the benefit of the runners. I have no problem with the idea that crowd noise, wind, etc can obscure that "sound". My issue is that he stated to me that he doesn't have to say a thing. My interpretation is that the word announce definitely implies more than a hand signal.

He should announce it but as stated the situation calls it. He is should be announcing but if he braincramps and doesn't announce it, doesn't mean he can't go back and get it.

From what I remember the call is a judgement call by the umpire. He will declare an infield fly if he feels that there is a reasonable belief that the ball would be caught under normal circumstances.

That is why the umpire said he didn't 'have' to call it.

Not the point Wklink....he stated that he was under no obligation to make a verbal call only a hand signal (pointing up). My contention is that based on the wording of the rule both a signal (in case noise obliterates the verball call) and a verbal call are required.

johnsonroj, none of us are stating an umpire shouldn't call an IFF with both a verbal and arm motion. However, the umpire either had a brain **** or tried to get himself out of the situation by making up what his job is.

However, we do disagree that your team is owed anything in the situation. The FED rules state the situation is what causes an IFF to be invoked, not the declaration.

FED's Case Book has a perfect example -- and almost the same situation as your's:
7.4.1 SITUATION G: With R1 on second and R2 on first and one out, B4 hits a high fly to second base which could have been caught by F4. Neither umpire declares “infield fly.” F4 unintentionally drops the ball but picks it up and tags R2 who is off the base. RULING: The half-inning is over as R2’s out is the third out. The infield fly out for the second out holds even though it was not declared. The situation determines the out, not the declaration. The umpires should always declare “Infield Fly, If Fair” to lessen any confusion.

Yes, the umpire messed up. No one disputes it. However, your players messed up by coming off the base when the situation determined the force was removed by IFF.

I've seen this work in reverse. The runners hold the bag (as taught) but the umpire does not give an indication (brain cramp) for the IFF and the ball falls when third baseman whiffs on it untouched 10 feet from 3rd base bag. The D then picked it up and turned two by making two force plays ie pick the ball up and step on third and throw to 2nd.

Deer in the headlights time for the umpire and he awarded a double play. Then it was Benny Hill time as everyone went crazy.

Here's one I saw in a game recently. Our coaches both questioned each other about it, but didn't go any further with it...

Bases loaded, one out and a pop fly to second base. Short stop comes running over as IFF is called by both umpires. Short stop collides with runner standing on second base and the ball falls a few feet from them...

What would you do? Anything?

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
Here's one I saw in a game recently. Our coaches both questioned each other about it, but didn't go any further with it...

Bases loaded, one out and a pop fly to second base. Short stop comes running over as IFF is called by both umpires. Short stop collides with runner standing on second base and the ball falls a few feet from them...

What would you do? Anything?

Unless the runner interfered intentionally, batter out, play on.

Umpire does not have to verbally declare infield fly. It is assumed and the judgement is defined by the effort of the player making the catch. Baserunners advance at their own risk.

The umps are too busy visualizing the flight of the ball and the movements of the defender on the play. Yes, we try to always yell it out but it is not mandatory. Players need to be taught to pay attention to the Outs, Counts and situations. Coaches can teach using a chalk board sometimes easier that verbally trying to get them to understand. I call this Rainy Day Brain Practice.