Nick Carfado, Boston Globe ...
Masahiro Tanaka, RHP, Yankees — I’ve been saying since Daisuke Matsuzaka signed with Boston in 2007 that Japanese starting pitchers need to be accommodated with extra rest since they’re used to pitching once every seven days in Japan. Last season, Tanaka was 10-1 with a 2.56 ERA in 17 starts when pitching on at least five days’ rest, and 4-3 with a 3.71 ERA in 14 starts when pitching on four days’ rest.
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Many of them also adopt our pitching routines as well like icing, etc.
In HS they pitch every day in the National tournaments.
Bob
Dice K once commented the rise to the top in Japanese ball is very Darwinian. He said a lot of good players smoked their arms on the way up.
Dice K did not do well but tanaka, darvish, iwakuma, maeda and uehara did quite well.
Maybe they do adjust better now and teams have found better protocols.
Will be interesting to see how otani does. If he stays healthy which is always a big issue for pitchers and moreso japanese pitchers I expect him to be a CY contender. He was more dominant than tanaka and darvish and 100 is 100. Health is a risk though.
What is interesting is that since matsui and ichiro no successful hitter came from japan. Even Korea did better in the last 10 years than japan with hitters. Maybe it is the combination of body size and the old school put it in play philosophy. Korean players tend to be a little bigger and they are swinging for the fences.
Will be interesting if japanese baseball adapts to the new hit it hard in the air and do not care if you miss philosophy, it seems like japan is slow to change in these things.
I see it as just the opposite. In Japan, they may only start every six or seven days, but they throw high-count, full strength bullpens a couple of times in between. I've always wondered if the adjustment was that they come over here and their arms are over-protected with an entirely different arm care protocol.
Our Goodwill Series American teams have played the Japan National HS team for 17 years. Several factors are important. Tanaka pitched against Matt Harvey in Cooperstown.
The National Spring and Summer tournament exhibit the top 50 teams. Games are played at Koshien in Osaka. 40,000 watch the games at Koshien and 40 million on TV.
After each game during the Press conference [40 media], I observed each pitcher arm was encased with a ice sleeve and the pitching arm was "x-ray" before the Press will allowed questions.
The pitchers mounds are flat and the starting pitchers throw easy between innings. This provides a minimum "effort" delivery. Many of the Japanese pitchers are strong hitters.
There are "cheer" sections of several thousand students. Reminds me of a Texas HS football game.
Bob
Any foreign player coming here to play should adopt to our standards.
roothog66 posted:I see it as just the opposite. In Japan, they may only start every six or seven days, but they throw high-count, full strength bullpens a couple of times in between. I've always wondered if the adjustment was that they come over here and their arms are over-protected with an entirely different arm care protocol.
I totally agree with Roothog on this. Cannot remember the resource I was reading, but according to one writer, professional pitchers in Japan do a lot higher throwing volume in season, than is customary in the U.S. This include unbelievably voluminous bullpens, consisting of hundreds of pitches, all season long. Hundreds.
The same resource quoted Daisuke Matsuzaka as saying the limits imposed on his throwing between starts were part of the source of issues between him and the Red Sox when he first joined. He also argued that not being able to stick with his routine was part of the problem limiting his success in MLB.
Now this is all anecdotal of course, and isn't necessarily dispositive of the issue. But it is an interesting counterpoint to the direction some in baseball think we need to take to deal with the so-called epidemic of pitching injuries in the past few years.
Speaking of observations on Japanese pitchers....
Has anyone noticed the "hype" is second to none. Why is that? Are their former Japanese professional clubs hyping them to agents who are then hyping to MLB teams more than other countries? There have been a few exceptional pitchers with exceptional years but no Japanese pitcher has been consistently exceptional since coming to the US. Is it our pitching routines, protocols, language barrier, homesickness? Thoughts.
BTW....Yes,, I still remember the "gyro-ball" and $50M posting fee. The Red Sox dipped their toe into the Japanese marketplace but that was a heck of an investment with a marginal return. The hype never met the reality.
Consultant posted:Our Goodwill Series American teams have played the Japan National HS team for 17 years. Several factors are important. Tanaka pitched against Matt Harvey in Cooperstown.
The National Spring and Summer tournament exhibit the top 50 teams. Games are played at Koshien in Osaka. 40,000 watch the games at Koshien and 40 million on TV.
After each game during the Press conference [40 media], I observed each pitcher arm was encased with a ice sleeve and the pitching arm was "x-ray" before the Press will allowed questions.
The pitchers mounds are flat and the starting pitchers throw easy between innings. This provides a minimum "effort" delivery. Many of the Japanese pitchers are strong hitters.
There are "cheer" sections of several thousand students. Reminds me of a Texas HS football game.
Bob
Bob - what do you mean when you say the pitchers mounds are flat? I'm not sure the picture I have in my mind is what you meant. Thx.
Our mounds are 12". Japan pro mounds 3" high. This encourages the use of the submarine pitcher. Lefty and righty. Also the pitch called the "shooto".
Bob
fenwaysouth posted:Speaking of observations on Japanese pitchers....
Has anyone noticed the "hype" is second to none. Why is that? Are their former Japanese professional clubs hyping them to agents who are then hyping to MLB teams more than other countries? There have been a few exceptional pitchers with exceptional years but no Japanese pitcher has been consistently exceptional since coming to the US. Is it our pitching routines, protocols, language barrier, homesickness? Thoughts.
BTW....Yes,, I still remember the "gyro-ball" and $50M posting fee. The Red Sox dipped their toe into the Japanese marketplace but that was a heck of an investment with a marginal return. The hype never met the reality.
Dice K was bad but darvish (16 War on a little over 4 seasons), iwakuma (12 war in 5 seasons) and tanaka (10 war in 3 seasons) were excellent over several years.
Dominik85 posted:Dice K did not do well but tanaka, darvish, iwakuma, maeda and uehara did quite well.
Maybe they do adjust better now and teams have found better protocols.
Will be interesting to see how otani does. If he stays healthy which is always a big issue for pitchers and moreso japanese pitchers I expect him to be a CY contender. He was more dominant than tanaka and darvish and 100 is 100. Health is a risk though.
What is interesting is that since matsui and ichiro no successful hitter came from japan. Even Korea did better in the last 10 years than japan with hitters. Maybe it is the combination of body size and the old school put it in play philosophy. Korean players tend to be a little bigger and they are swinging for the fences.
Will be interesting if japanese baseball adapts to the new hit it hard in the air and do not care if you miss philosophy, it seems like japan is slow to change in these things.
Dice K won 33 games in his first two season with the Red Sox with a 9.4 WAR. Then he started having arm problems.
fenwaysouth posted:Speaking of observations on Japanese pitchers....
Has anyone noticed the "hype" is second to none. Why is that? Are their former Japanese professional clubs hyping them to agents who are then hyping to MLB teams more than other countries? There have been a few exceptional pitchers with exceptional years but no Japanese pitcher has been consistently exceptional since coming to the US. Is it our pitching routines, protocols, language barrier, homesickness? Thoughts.
BTW....Yes,, I still remember the "gyro-ball" and $50M posting fee. The Red Sox dipped their toe into the Japanese marketplace but that was a heck of an investment with a marginal return. The hype never met the reality.
The Red Sox signed Dice K, Tazawa and played their season opening series in Japan. At the time they cornered the Japanese market for MLB souvenirs, clothing and watching the team. They made millions.
