Maybe what?
No young pitcher should throw that much at one time, don't care how strong his arm is or isn't.
TPM, I didn't say maybe it's OK that ha threw that many, what I meant was maybe I'd understand why he would leave him in. Regardless of why, it's still way too many. I have no idea why he would even consider leaving him in that long giving up that many runs.
I'm not condoning having a kid throw that many pitches, HOWEVER,
I don't see the big deal. I've thrown BP for 10-12 kids 10- 20 pitches a piece 2 times per week for 5 years. The last couple of years I've had to really "bring it" too, in order to challenge them and I haven't even had a sore arm. Not once. It's called proper mechanics. Transfering power from your lower body through your core through your shoulders and to the catchers glove. As Tim Lincecum says"my arm is just along for the ride".Heck, I don't even stretch or warm up. I throw about 5-7 pitches and I'm ready to rock!If my old butt can do it, surely these highschool harrys can do it, right? Speaking of old butts, Thats exactly what is sore the next day after I throw an our or so of BP
I got another one for you guys. Whats the difference between throwing a curveball and throwing a football? When I throw a football, my hand runs down the right side of the ball and across my body. I think it's MUCH like throwing a curveball. Yet I hear all the time from football people how throwing a baseball is bad for your arm. Please!
I don't see the big deal. I've thrown BP for 10-12 kids 10- 20 pitches a piece 2 times per week for 5 years. The last couple of years I've had to really "bring it" too, in order to challenge them and I haven't even had a sore arm. Not once. It's called proper mechanics. Transfering power from your lower body through your core through your shoulders and to the catchers glove. As Tim Lincecum says"my arm is just along for the ride".Heck, I don't even stretch or warm up. I throw about 5-7 pitches and I'm ready to rock!If my old butt can do it, surely these highschool harrys can do it, right? Speaking of old butts, Thats exactly what is sore the next day after I throw an our or so of BP
I got another one for you guys. Whats the difference between throwing a curveball and throwing a football? When I throw a football, my hand runs down the right side of the ball and across my body. I think it's MUCH like throwing a curveball. Yet I hear all the time from football people how throwing a baseball is bad for your arm. Please!
OK, I'll bite. What is the average number of passes an NFL QB throws on Sunday? And, how many days a week does he play? I can't see the comparison being valid.
4 Seamer, it doesnt matter if you throw 5000 pitches a day. Your career is over. This kid throwing 180 pitches in one outing is hurting his chances for a career. It's that simple.
My pitch count is 80 and I pitch once every 5 games. The most anyone in our organization will go is 105 pitches.
We had a player mess up a chart a couple weeks back and when our coach sent in the game reports to the brass it was skewed. It had him throwing 94 pitches in 4 innings. Our coach was called by Billy Beane all night and the other big names, just because of a mess up. He probably would have lost his job or been suspended if it were true.
I agree people need to throw more, but that throwing should be done between pitching time on the mound. Throw everyday, long toss, so you are ready to throw on the mound.
My pitch count is 80 and I pitch once every 5 games. The most anyone in our organization will go is 105 pitches.
We had a player mess up a chart a couple weeks back and when our coach sent in the game reports to the brass it was skewed. It had him throwing 94 pitches in 4 innings. Our coach was called by Billy Beane all night and the other big names, just because of a mess up. He probably would have lost his job or been suspended if it were true.
I agree people need to throw more, but that throwing should be done between pitching time on the mound. Throw everyday, long toss, so you are ready to throw on the mound.
4 seamer,
Your "bringing it" and a HS pitcher throwing in a game are two very different things, especially when that HS pitcher is struggling. I doubt if you are throwing anywhere near as hard as you think you are.
Pitch counts are guidelines only. If a pitcher is obviously struggling a coach needs to get him out before the pitch count gets too high and that could be well under some generic pitch count. There's a balance between letting him work through it and protecting his arm but 180 pitches and 14 runs is a struggling pitcher whose arm is being damaged. On the other hand if a pitcher is sailing along I'm not going to be quite as ready to pull him due to pitch count. Coaches have to use their judgement and a pitcher's arm is more important than any HS game.
Your "bringing it" and a HS pitcher throwing in a game are two very different things, especially when that HS pitcher is struggling. I doubt if you are throwing anywhere near as hard as you think you are.
Pitch counts are guidelines only. If a pitcher is obviously struggling a coach needs to get him out before the pitch count gets too high and that could be well under some generic pitch count. There's a balance between letting him work through it and protecting his arm but 180 pitches and 14 runs is a struggling pitcher whose arm is being damaged. On the other hand if a pitcher is sailing along I'm not going to be quite as ready to pull him due to pitch count. Coaches have to use their judgement and a pitcher's arm is more important than any HS game.
i am shocked that the reponses are anything but outraged! i assume that when the tribune said he throw 180 pitches they were NOT counting what he throw before the game and inbetween innings!
the number of errors and earned runs has nothing to do with anything but the score. i am talking about who was looking out for this kids well being? the answer is NO ONE!
this is reprehensible! end of story!
the number of errors and earned runs has nothing to do with anything but the score. i am talking about who was looking out for this kids well being? the answer is NO ONE!
this is reprehensible! end of story!
4 seamer how ridiculous, you are an adult, no one cares if your arm falls off or not. 
BTW, one of son's HS coaches just needed labrum surgery from all the batting practice, it was NOT pleasant. It's harder to recover as an adult from any surgery. Dave's former college coach told me that coaches need to condition just like the younger guys, to avoid problens later on. It's their career, so they have to have healthy arms too. Don't pride yourself on not stretching out, it's gonna bite you back worse than in your butt someday.
And never compare younger players to professional players, they are trained differently.
BTW, one of son's HS coaches just needed labrum surgery from all the batting practice, it was NOT pleasant. It's harder to recover as an adult from any surgery. Dave's former college coach told me that coaches need to condition just like the younger guys, to avoid problens later on. It's their career, so they have to have healthy arms too. Don't pride yourself on not stretching out, it's gonna bite you back worse than in your butt someday.
And never compare younger players to professional players, they are trained differently.
180 pitches....are you kidding me!!! Sure, that is a great number if you spread it over two or three games over a two week period.....that is CRAZY.
Being in the Tidewater Area of Virginia Beach....I know of at least 5 pitchers during the past year that has had TJ Surgery......Pitchers these days.....are throwing TOO MUCH - Period! They do not need to be throwing in all four seasons.....on a competitive basis.....but everyone seems to think they have to play on an AAU Team/Showcase Team....go to three or four showcases.....if your kid is good HE/SHE will get noticed!
Being in the Tidewater Area of Virginia Beach....I know of at least 5 pitchers during the past year that has had TJ Surgery......Pitchers these days.....are throwing TOO MUCH - Period! They do not need to be throwing in all four seasons.....on a competitive basis.....but everyone seems to think they have to play on an AAU Team/Showcase Team....go to three or four showcases.....if your kid is good HE/SHE will get noticed!
Oh c'mon. I knew that comment would draw an arc. I said I said wasn't condoning it, just wanted to make a point that maybe this one time to beat a rival might not mean TJ surgery.I don't know what to make of all this stuff anymore.
As far as my comment about the football and CB's, I stand on that one. The consenses among MOST people here and around the world is that CB's are bad for your arm, regardless of how many they throw.All you here is "DON'T LET THEM THROW THEM TILL they're 16, till they're growing hair, till they stop growing, till the sky falls etc... My point is we'll never REALLY know for sure, but I think throwing a football is MUCH MORE LIKE A CB THAN A FASTBALL. And I'll bet it weighs 3 times as much as a baseball AND I'll bet they don't do a half an hours worth of stretching their arms before they go out there and start chucking the pigskin around.
As far as my comment about the football and CB's, I stand on that one. The consenses among MOST people here and around the world is that CB's are bad for your arm, regardless of how many they throw.All you here is "DON'T LET THEM THROW THEM TILL they're 16, till they're growing hair, till they stop growing, till the sky falls etc... My point is we'll never REALLY know for sure, but I think throwing a football is MUCH MORE LIKE A CB THAN A FASTBALL. And I'll bet it weighs 3 times as much as a baseball AND I'll bet they don't do a half an hours worth of stretching their arms before they go out there and start chucking the pigskin around.
quote:Originally posted by 4 seamer:
My point is we'll never REALLY know for sure, but I think throwing a football is MUCH MORE LIKE A CB THAN A FASTBALL. And I'll bet it weighs 3 times as much as a baseball AND I'll bet they don't do a half an hours worth of stretching their arms before they go out there and start chucking the pigskin around.
What you are overlooking is the arm action - most QB's don't wind up, bring the football past their hip and rotate their wrists in the middle of the throw.
BUT -- you're right about the question because it is a logical argument.
So tell us, in your opinion, some medical research applicable to pitching injuries that was done by incompetent people.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
One problem with research---not all of it is done by competent people
http://www.baseball-reference....rs/r/radboch01.shtml
I always thought it was ridiculous that my uncle Charlie was made to pitch so many innings in 1884. I wonder what the message boards were saying about his manager back then. His pitch count had to be ridiculous.
I always thought it was ridiculous that my uncle Charlie was made to pitch so many innings in 1884. I wonder what the message boards were saying about his manager back then. His pitch count had to be ridiculous.
Somehow I think I want to take KennySmalls and Bill Beane's word for it rather than good ol' 4seamer! Then again, I threw 400 pitches 3 times a week from 35 feet in BP for my boy's travel team - -maybe that means it's O.K. for a high school kid to throw 180 pitches because his coach is afraid to put someone else in the game.
Hey HC, i like the your link on how to cork a bat. Maybe you can tell us how to pull the top off aluminum bats and put tennis balls in the barrel too.
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I'll get my crack staff on it.
Is crack staff equal to being dope?
or....
.
It looks like your crack staff already has enough to do HC...
I'm sure they're more than happy to leave the blue balls to you!
It looks like your crack staff already has enough to do HC...
I'm sure they're more than happy to leave the blue balls to you!