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21 replies

Is baseball a team game?

ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Is it?

There are games where everyone - including the 84 year old grandmother in the stands, knows it came down to one guy's performance.

I used to think it was an individual sport, but my feelings have changed and believe it to be a team sport.

In the interest of a good debate (as TrHit likes to say) lets hear your take - one way or the other.
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coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I truly believe that it is both an individual sport as well as a team sport. It also depends on which aspect your talking about - offense / defense - in terms of the team vs. individual.

Offense is typically based on individual performance. It's you vs. the pitcher and you got to find a good pitch to hit it as hard as you can. But then there is that area that moves you into the team aspect. You have to get a bunt down, take a pitch to get a runner a stolen base, sacrifice fly and things like that. You are sacrificing individual glory to help the team succeed.

Defense is typically based on team effort. On a simple groundball it usually takes at least two people to get an out but there is more to it than just that. You have to get people in backup position and the pitcher had to make a good pitch. You have to know your responsibilities on bunt coverages, 1st / 3rd and other things like that. One person doesn't know where to go can mess it all up. Then the individual aspect comes up - a guy has to make a diving catch or a pitcher has to get a strike out.

I tell my guys all the time what makes baseball great is that in one game you get to be the star but the next game you may have to be the offensive lineman for the team to succeed. What that means is that in one game you may get to be the guy that goes 4 - 4 and drives in the winning run. You're the superstar and everyone knows how great you did. But the next day you may have to lay down two sac bunts and have a groundball to the right side to move a runner over. Nobody is going to notice what you did (with the exception of a true baseball person) and there's no real glory. Just like football - nobody has a clue when the offensive line does a good job except for true football people.

Baseball is a great game for individual achievement but it's also a great game if you can swallow your pride to let the team be successful.
Q Quincy1,000+ posts
Baseball is without a doubt a team game. The rules stipulate that a minimum number of players be on each team before play can begin.

An individual cannot pitch and catch at the same time. An individual cannot field a ball by third base and be on first to catch the throw for the out.

In all honesty, people who see baseball as an individual sport only have the selfish interest of their player in mind. Most likely if their player were not in the line up, they would go home until the game ended. What would be the sense in rooting for the other members of the team?

While the game can turn on the performance of one individual, that one individual would not have had the opportunity to play without his/her teammates.
igballigball500+ posts
I think if you isolate one game by itself its very much an individual sport. That's why baseball all star games can be so much fun vs basketball and football (which are true team sports) all star games are awful. There really is not a lot of team strategy involved to play a game. Just throw out a ball and go at it. However over a long season a team's identity is formed and their success will be dependant on how well they mesh as a team (see Al Capone).

With the exception of the pitcher-catcher relationship there is not a lot of intricate intra-team strategy stuff that goes on in an individual game (the manager's role is completely different of course).

My son played high school basketball and I miss watching him play that sport because of the team interaction and intensity of the games (inner city Chicago). When played right (not very often these days) the game is a wonderful team sport with each player having a distinct role.
Last edited by igball
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I truly believe that it is both an individual sport as well as a team sport. It also depends on which aspect your talking about - offense / defense - in terms of the team vs. individual.

Offense is typically based on individual performance. It's you vs. the pitcher and you got to find a good pitch to hit it as hard as you can. But then there is that area that moves you into the team aspect. You have to get a bunt down, take a pitch to get a runner a stolen base, sacrifice fly and things like that. You are sacrificing individual glory to help the team succeed.

Defense is typically based on team effort. On a simple groundball it usually takes at least two people to get an out but there is more to it than just that. You have to get people in backup position and the pitcher had to make a good pitch. You have to know your responsibilities on bunt coverages, 1st / 3rd and other things like that. One person doesn't know where to go can mess it all up. Then the individual aspect comes up - a guy has to make a diving catch or a pitcher has to get a strike out.

I tell my guys all the time what makes baseball great is that in one game you get to be the star but the next game you may have to be the offensive lineman for the team to succeed. What that means is that in one game you may get to be the guy that goes 4 - 4 and drives in the winning run. You're the superstar and everyone knows how great you did. But the next day you may have to lay down two sac bunts and have a groundball to the right side to move a runner over. Nobody is going to notice what you did (with the exception of a true baseball person) and there's no real glory. Just like football - nobody has a clue when the offensive line does a good job except for true football people.

Baseball is a great game for individual achievement but it's also a great game if you can swallow your pride to let the team be successful.


nice post Coach......
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Quincy:
Baseball is without a doubt a team game. The rules stipulate that a minimum number of players be on each team before play can begin.

An individual cannot pitch and catch at the same time. An individual cannot field a ball by third base and be on first to catch the throw for the out.

In all honesty, people who see baseball as an individual sport only have the selfish interest of their player in mind. Most likely if their player were not in the line up, they would go home until the game ended. What would be the sense in rooting for the other members of the team?

While the game can turn on the performance of one individual, that one individual would not have had the opportunity to play without his/her teammates.


I am with you, my pitcher is a sinker guy, he wouldn't be successful if there was no team there to support him. He would be nothing without his catcher.
He played with a college coach that didn't allow any i in the team. Neither did most of the coaches he had growing up.
When son first began pro ball I really looked at it as more indivdual, but after a few seasons I changed my mind. The organization promotes winning as a team unit. I guess I may have gotten that confused with the fact that as individuals, they are much different and sometimes go about their seperate ways when not on the field.

Are there going to be personalities that think that they are better than the average, you bet, but a team still should work as a whole unit.

You can have tons of talent but if they are not all on the same page (supporting one another), it's not going to work, JMO.

JH, you got it right!
Last edited by TPM
T twotex1,000+ posts
I've seen teams "gel" as a season progresses, winning more games as they started playing better together. Outfielders become more confident of their territory. Infielders understand who's doing what on different types of plays. Catchers start figuring out what makes a pitcher tick.

Double steals. Pickles. Defending the bunt. Hit and run.

Team sport in my book. But with plenty of emphasis on and opportunity for individual achievement.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Of course baseball is a team sport. However, like all team sports it's played by individuals.

Individuals don't always have equal talent or equal work ethic. Everyone doesn't have the same goals and desire. Everyone doesn't have the same mentality. Everyone doesn't have an outstanding coach. That said, it is the teams that have the most of those things that become the best teams.

Everyone wants good team players, but colleges don't recruit the entire high school team and MLB doesn't draft an entire team of players. The best individuals will end up playing on many different teams with many different teammates. Who their teammates are can influence the future of those individuals, but not as much as their own personal achievements.

Truth is, at some point, if the individual doesn't take care of business... He will no longer be part of the team! Teammates change, individuals succeed or move on.

Still there is nothing better than seeing a lot of excellent well coached players work together as a team. I think most of the best individuals are also great teammates. Be nice if they were all like that!
Last edited by PGStaff
SandmanSandman500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by igball:
My son played high school basketball and I miss watching him play that sport because of the team interaction and intensity of the games (inner city Chicago). When played right (not very often these days) the game is a wonderful team sport with each player having a distinct role.
"When played right..." You got that right, ig! My son is a HS jr. and plays varsity basketball (in addition to baseball); he's the starting shooting guard. I despise watching his basketball games though, as his coach condones an approach of "These 3 guys are our shooters (he might as well say "stars")... let's get THEM the ball... I want THEM scoring 15 points per game". So the point guard often puts his head down as he crosses mid-court and begins his circus-act drive to the hoop. Yes, he DOES go to the line quite a bit and he makes a lot of them. He also gets in a decent % of his shots. But "TEAM"? Uh uh. He could care less. Ditto for the big guy who despite getting many rebounds, is about 20% on easy layups (so they might as well be turnovers). Would it ever cross his mind to kick it back out and reset the offense? Uh uh. Coach has told him he wants HIM to SCORE!

It really seems as if the other 7 or 8 players are there simply to catch a pass from these chosen few then to immediately give it back so they can shoot, along w/ occasionally giving the stars a rest for a couple minutes.

IMO, basketball like this is one of the most individual (selfish, ball-hogging) sports, masquerading as a team sport. Ugh, is it baseball season yet?
Last edited by Sandman
igballigball500+ posts
Sandman,

You touched on one of the problems with basketball. Because the coach can control and micro-manage practically everything that goes on, no matter what a player does, the coach could say they should have done somethign different. With baseball because of its many individual aspects, the player gets to dictate the action. When the ball is pitched to you, you hit it. When it comes to you, you field it. You won't get the coach saying you shouldn't have passed to Charlie on the wing, etc etc.

With all that said, another way at looking at the OP might be:

"Was Manny Ramirez (in his prime) a team or individual player with the Red Sox?"

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