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Can someone supply facts regarding Almonte. What his size and weight? How hard does he throw? How many pitches and type? What kind of control? How is his makeup?


Tr,

You are the one that called Almonte, “The real deal”. I was just wondering what type of background you require to deem someone such. I figured at the least you could provide us a little more detail as to how you arrived at this conclusion.

Tr, You asked…
quote:
Is there something in the Dakota water--like Elk Runoff,Moose Runoff etc that makes you such a doubter ? Relax Pal


As far as the water out my way, it is actually quite pristine. My asking for a little clarification might have more to do with living not too far away from the “Show me state”. Or maybe it’s just because with all the cattle running around out here, you get so you can tell the difference between cow excrement and bull excrement.
“The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing”. Philosopher Edmund Burke
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quote:
A fresh start

Friday, June 11, 2004

By BOB KLAPISCH
SPORTS COLUMNIST




AP
Danny Almonte

Danny Almonte is standing exactly 60 feet, 6 inches away - a span he's calibrated not with the help of a tape measure, but by his own perfect instincts. Even in the wide-open dimensions of the outfield, a true pitcher - even a teenager — knows how far a fastball is supposed to travel.

"You ready?" Almonte asks. We haven't begun to play catch, but his vibe is unmistakable. Long arms, long torso, cap pulled down low, Andy Pettitte-style. Almonte almost looks like he's ready for life on 161st Street in the Bronx, where baseball isn't a passion, it's a business, cold as Microsoft.

But Almonte isn't there yet. He is, after all, just a sophomore at James Monroe High School in the Bronx, pitching tonight at Shea Stadium for the New York City championship against George Washington H.S. Almonte says it's the greatest here-and-now moment of his abbreviated baseball life, but he's still trying to outrun the scandal of the 2001 Little League World Series.

Then, the Dominican-born Almonte pulverized 12-year-old hitters with a 78-mph fastball, striking out 46 batters in three starts - a stunning feat until it was discovered that Almonte was actually 14.

Danny Almonte file

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The facts on Danny Almonte, who will pitch today (7 p.m.) at Shea Stadium as his high school team plays for New York City's PSAL A Division title:

Age: 17

School: James Monroe High School, Bronx

Class: Sophomore

Position: Pitcher, first base

Height: 5 feet 10

Weight: 155 pounds

Fastball: 87 mph

2004 pitching: 9-1, 1.57 ERA, 84 strikeouts in 532/3 innings

2004 hitting: .456, 10 HR, 58 RBI

That's the asterisk Almonte carries today, and perhaps forever: white heat, followed by a white lie.

On this day not long ago, however, Almonte, 17, is far away from Williamsport. Instead, he's in Babylon, Long Island, paying a visit to the All-American Sports Academy, a crisply run camp for baseball-addicted preteens. Almonte has been invited to the camp by its director, Rob Drommerhauser, who was the Mets' bullpen catcher in the Eighties. Drommerhauser knows Ray Negron, who counseled Dwight Gooden after he succumbed to coke. And Negron knows Rolando Paulino, Almonte's Little League coach from the Bronx and present-day caretaker.

Sifting through four degrees of separation, Almonte finds himself in the middle of 135 upper-middle-class boys. The currency is the same for everyone here - a love of baseball - but that's not to say Danny has much else in common with the campers. He barely speaks, and when he does, he uses Negron to translate one- and two-word answers.

No matter. No one has to really talk to Danny to know his story. The kids recognize his face. And they surely realize the gift of his adult-like left arm.

"Fastball," Almonte says, announcing the first pitch, like the Speaker of the House bringing in the president for the State of the Union. The campers are all watching Almonte, as are the camp's staffers, including a retired Baltimore Orioles' scout whose presence lets the kids believe they're on a bullet train to The Show.

Me? I'm the one playing catch with Danny - a former Columbia right-hander who's still hanging around the sandlots of New Jersey. I'm too old, Almonte is too young. Our skills are hurtling in opposite directions, but for one brief moment we're in exactly the same place in the baseball universe.

Even as he goes into his windup, it's obvious Danny has a DNA to die for. His windup is short, his hips rotate perfectly, his front leg coils like a snake. And upon releasing the ball, his arm forms a perfect "L" - just the way it's taught to the campers.

Only, these mechanics are a product of genetics - inherited, not taught. As much as the All-American Baseball Academy advertises to the contrary, such physics can't be force-fed to its students. As Almonte's limbs unfold and the ball leaves his fingertips, it's obvious where he and that heater are headed.

"Danny has what I call pitchability," is how Yankees' scout Cesar Presbott put it. He's a New York-based bird-dog who, along with every other area scout, has been tracking Almonte since 2001. So far, Presbott likes what he sees.

"It's not about how hard you throw," the scout says. "I've seen plenty of guys who are at 95 [mph] and can't pitch. Danny has that something special."

Maybe it's because Almonte has already lived through the darkest days of his life. In the wake of the Williamsport fiasco, Almonte's perfect game was stricken from the record books, his Bronx-based team stripped of its third-place finish, and his coach, Rolando Paulino, was banned for life from all future Little League tournaments.

There were culprits everywhere in this sorry tale - primarily Danny's father, Felipe, who was caught chiseling two years off his son's age. No one ever blamed Almonte for the scam, but even if you have a problem with him today, his impenetrable wall of serenity, sprinkled with the requisite teenage indifference, suggests it's your problem, not his.

Almonte has moved along quite nicely since 2001. He won All-City honors with a 10-2 record and 2.63 ERA last year and was even better this season, lowering his ERA by more than one run. When he wasn't pitching, Almonte was one of Monroe's best hitters, starting at first base, posting a .456 average - which is one reason the Eagles are 41-2.

Their coach, Mike Turo, believes Almonte will continue to grow and be throwing in the low 90s by his senior year. Which is to say, he'll be riding that bullet train to The Show.

Joe DeLuca, a former Orioles' scout, would later say: "There's no doubt in my mind Danny's going to be drafted. Even with the stuff he's got right now, he could go somewhere in the lower rounds."

It's not that Almonte has major league velocity. If the meter for respectability drops at 90 mph, then Danny is a work in progress, somewhere in the mid-80s. But he has several obvious factors working in his favor: he's young, he's a lefty, and because of his long arms has what one major league executive calls "a projectable body." In other words, Almonte is waiting to ripen.

One more thing: Almonte's fastball has last-second-movement. Scouts call it late life in the zone, and it's the difference between a high-round draft pick - and a fat signing bonus - and spending the rest of your baseball life with me in the sandlots.

Understand, hitting a baseball is all about timing and comfort, which is why a straight fastball - even in excess of 90 mph - looks like a grapefruit to a major-leaguer. But nothing makes a hitter more uncomfortable than a fastball that moves late and unpredictably, which is precisely the gift that's been bestowed upon Almonte.

Although scientists have proven the impossibility of such a phenomenon, Danny's fastball nevertheless seems to accelerate just before it reaches my glove, tailing to the right. To a right-handed hitter, Almonte is throwing a screwball with a bad temper, drifting sharply away from the sweet spot of the bat barrel. Someday, when Almonte adds another 10 mph, a hitter won't be able to react to the cut until it's too late, which will result in plenty of weak ground balls to short.

No wonder Almonte buried those Little Leaguers two years ago. His fastballs are coming at me in a steady stream, each one accompanied with a faint "hiss." DeLuca nods approvingly, and murmurs, "He's got some pop, doesn't he?"

Suddenly, the former scout is curious enough to ask Almonte what else is on the menu.

"You got a curveball?" he asks. Almonte nods, expecting the question, ready to unveil his next surprise. The curve - also known as the deuce, the hook, or Uncle Charlie - has been eclipsed by trendier weapons such as the slider and split-finger fastball, but nothing can duplicate the effects of an old-fashioned curve with a 12-to-6 trajectory. Dwight Gooden had it in 1985 in his pre-rehab days, which compelled hitters to reverently address it as Lord Charles.

Almonte's curve, still in embryo form, is nevertheless dramatic. His "L" arm angle allowed him to get on top of the ball, pull down fiercely on the seams, and deliver a tight-spinning, late-breaking parabola that drops at least a foot. Almonte wants to show DeLuca the third pitch in his arsenal, a knuckleball, but the scout nukes it immediately.

"Get rid of it," Danny is told. "Let me see the curve again."

Danny throws a dozen more - for me, for DeLuca, and the campers who watched in naked awe. Through the entire game of catch, Almonte hardly seemed self-conscious. In fact, he was somewhere else, his eyes fixed in a thousand-yard stare. Maybe Almonte learned this self-hypnosis from watching Roger Clemens on TV. Or maybe not. Perhaps, like his curveball, even the ability to concentrate comes this naturally to Almonte.

DeLuca seems to think so. Arms folded over his barrel chest, the old scout offers Danny a peek into his future.

"You keep growing and keep throwing - and you stay in school - and you have a chance to go places, Danny," DeLuca said.

For the first time all day, Danny lowers the walls that protect him. He smiles. Finally.



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So why, exactly, did Almonte lie? Put the question through a morality strainer and you get another, more complicated question: Is it really a lie if you really believe it's true?

"In Danny's mind, he was 12 years old [in 2001]. He was innocent," Paulino said. Not that Almonte spent much time worrying about the scandal. Two years ago he could barely speak or read English, which kept him blissfully removed from the investigation and the subsequent penalties handed down.

Not only was Paulino banned from future tournaments, but so was Felipe Almonte, who returned to the Dominican Republic insisting his son was 12. That is, until Danny's real birth certificate, the one indicating his year of birth was 1987, not 1989, was discovered.

Paulino says he didn't realize Felipe had committed fraud on the Little League, believing Danny was only 12. But the 40-year-old Paulino and the elder Almonte were no strangers to each other. In fact, they'd been friends since boyhood in the Dominican Republic. And when Felipe Almonte and his wife returned to their country in the summer of 2001, they left Danny in Paulino's care.

That was the last time Danny saw his parents, and he is quick to say, "I really miss my mother." It's the only topic that moves him - those daily telephone conversations back to the Dominican Republic. But ask about Felipe, his father, and the walls thicken again.

"I talk to him about once a week," Danny says distantly. Actually, it's Paulino who maintains close contact with Felipe Almonte, delivering updates on his son. Today, Danny has a special visa that allows him to remain in the United States and live with Paulino. When Danny isn't playing baseball, he's at Monroe. When he's not in school, he's home watching TV, usually watching the Yankees. It's an ordinary teenager's life, says Paulino, which is what Felipe Almonte wanted all along.

"Danny's father decided it's better for him here in America. He has greater opportunities here," Paulino said. "He can have a better education and a better chance to develop as a baseball player."

Money is a factor, too. Major league rules compel U.S.-based players to have a high school diploma or its equivalency in order to get drafted. That means Danny will have to wait two more years for The Show, or vice versa. Of course, he could simply quit school, return to the Dominican Republic, and, since he's past his 16th birthday, become instantly eligible to sign with any team he wanted.

It's tempting. After all, every kid on the island knows the story of Wily Mo Pena, the 17-year-old phenom who pulled down a $1.55 million signing bonus from the Yankees in 1999. But for every overnight millionaire in the Dominican, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of teenagers who sign for no more than $20,000 or $25,000, hang around the minor leagues for a few years, and ultimately return home, broke and uneducated.

The competition for that winning lottery ticket is so intense, birth certificate forgery is a way of life for many foreigners, especially in the Dominican Republic. As former Met manager Bobby Valentine once told the Daily News, "There's no system of high schools there where every player gets an opportunity to be seen. Sometimes they have to wait five years to get on a local team where they can be seen by scouts."

Closer attention to immigration papers since the 9-11 attacks in the United States showed how much cheating has taken pace in the big leagues. The Yankees, for instance, learned that Cuban-born Orlando Hernandez was 32 when they signed him in 1998, not 28. The Angels' Bartolo Colon went from 26 to 28. And the Braves' Rafael Furcal lost the distinction of breaking Ty Cobb's record for most stolen bases as a 19-year-old (40 in 2000), when it was discovered he was actually 21 at the time.

"Hey, they all cheat," is how Monroe's Turo put it. He remembers just how casually the rules were broken during a visit to the Dominican Republic two summers ago, when his 10-year-old son was part of a touring Bronx All-Star team that was coached by none other than Paulino himself.

Paulino and Felipe Almonte, renewing their friendship, had pitted their Little League squads against each other in Almonte's hometown of Moca. The Bronx contingent was winning the first game, 6-1, when Turo remembers seeing older, stronger Dominican players slipping through the back of the dugout.

"All of a sudden, they had a whole new team out there, because they were losing," Turo says. "Those weren't 10- and 11-year-olds on the field anymore. They feel like they have to win, and they'll do anything to beat you."

The experience didn't entirely prejudice Turo toward Dominican players. He welcomed Almonte onto the Monroe squad in March 2003, which must feel like another lifetime for the two. Today, Turo and Almonte are just nine innings away from a New York City championship, although Danny won't be relying just on his coach.

Instead, Almonte will summon that precious fastball. It's the best friend he's ever had - incapable of lying, cheating, or mocking him, ever. As long as Almonte is throwing the heat, the rest of the world can wait outside the impenetrable walls of his soul.

E-mail: klapisch@northjersey.com


Thanks BigHit,

Based on the article, I have a hard time deeming the kid the "Real Deal". He seems to be a decent left handed high school pitcher whose 15 minutes of infamy allow him to stick out.

I wish the kid well and hope he gets his makeup from his mother. (I'm not talking the eye liner, blush and lip stick kind of makeup)
Pretty good publicist but the truth is that he probably isn't very projectable. He's probably done growing since he'll be 18 in less than two months and he doesn't throw all that hard. I've heard that he was 5'9" not 5'10" but who knows. He had a pretty good season in what would normally have been his senior year against mediocre competition and if he has the grades could do OK in college but it is unlikely he'll ever have the stuff to pitch in the big leagues. I'd guess that he'll be drafted somewhere in the later rounds in a couple years and maybe, maybe not make it past rookie ball.
At this point let the draft tell the story--as for this year--who knows? It will be interesting what politics will govern

I know, first hand, what he did in the title game last year--you only know what you read-- doesnt make me a know it all--just more in tune than you are--not right or wrong but more in touch
Last edited by TRhit
I remember his performance in the LLWS. Against little 12 year olders he looked unbeatable. Has anyone checked to see what he has done in a select League of players who are all "playing up" with older guys.

After reading the article, I'll say that he has some promise, but at his height, and unless he grows more, the release point could be a problem because it might be to low and will be right in the eyes of the good batters; I predict that they will pound him.

I would give him until he is 22 years old to see what he becomes. But unless he grows more and develops a real mean slider I don't think he will make it.

To short for my liking.
As an soon to be retired educator, my concern would be how does the NY City School System respond when hearing any 17 y/o, who has been in the school system for six plus years, have a limited ability to speak (ie one or two short words at a time), thus 'requiring' a translator.

Since this could reveal he's not on the right
track towards institutions of higher learning
('cept maybe FSU...lol) there could be a few
GM's out there in a few years, drooling over the budget with thoughts about singing a 5'11 'soft' lefty with late command for a cupcake!.

I hope the best for the HS kid, yet does this real deal have too many heads in the sands?

Regards
Bear
"People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Do you think his life when he was 14 in any way compared with yours, or mine? All I am saying is that IMO none of us are in a position to pass judgement on the mistakes made by a displaced 14 year old who spoke no english.

This is not to in any way condone what his father or handlers did, but that's where the blame belongs. They used him, set him up for national ridicule and stole his childhood. No, Danny is not blameless, but just take a moment to consider the circumstances and then say that you would have done it differently.
Last edited by itsrosy
I am also guilty of an Almonteism, however, in the old days we played up not down.

I admit I falsified documents at 16 yr old claiming to be 18, the tavern league frowned upon it, suspending me for 2 years, and took away my swizzle stick.

Almonte may have the physical tools but where does he stand with the mental aspects? Can he handle being another arm in the bigs? Can he kick it up a notch when he has to, or has he been a puppet of his elders so long that he will be unable to adapt?
What drove Danny's father to do what he did with his son is only understandable to another person who has lived through the circumstances of the background of the Almonte's.

In Puerto Rico, with the "knowledge" that the only way out of abject poverty is through the BB programs and getting to the Big Show, it is not beyond reason to see how the inculcation of that being drummed into the head of father and mother alike could distort the reality of insignificant BB really is to the reality of a good life.

What we are talking about here is watching someone take an "idea" and make a "religious" trek out of it. That is what it is like in Purto Rico for these boys wanting to achieve the dream.

When the difference between going hungery, and watching your family going undernourished and maybe half starving to death is the only other alternative to your existence, believe me you will do anything to find a way to ge to the top...or did you not learn anything from Scarlett in GWTW when she puts her fist up to the sky and says, "as God is my witness I will never be hungry again". People in this country cannot identify with that as a reality.

Was it right what Danny did...no, but I understand it. What his father didn't realize is that Danny could have made it without the chichanery. But you see Danny's father didn't trust the system to be fair with him or his son. That's what prejudice does. It creates boogeymen where none may exist.

I feel sorry for Danny because he will have to carry this "national shame" in his life, for the rest of his life. It would not surprise me if Danny dosn't try to hurt himself later out of self-recrimination.

We as parents want the best for our children, and Danny's father wanted that for his son, but because of his lack of education and literacy he didn't know how to accomplish it. That's the real tragedy here.
Last edited by PiC
I agree about this being "hype". The only reason Almonte is even getting "ink" is because
adults with very little ethics saw a chance to bring notoriety to themselves and a community without regard for the rules. It happens all over the country in every venue we
can imagine. The rationale is that "it's only wrong if you get caught".

We have rules in every sport we play and there are plenty of us that sit around and try
to find ways to circumvent those rules. As long as we see people cheating and say nothing
because we fear reprisal or repercussions against us or our children it will continue to
happen-and probably increase in frequency.

Think about this--It is now a fact that Major League Baseball Players have used steroids
and other players have been aware of this happening and said nothing about it. Why not?
Do they feel it is okay for teammates and opponents to cheat to get better? To become
bigger, stronger, faster in order to do do better against them or their teammates? It's
puzzling how we have gotten to the point of saying "It's OK if they want to cheat, but
I'm not going to go there". I can't imagine Tiger Woods saying "I don't care if V.J Singh
is using an illegal driver in the Masters(gaining an extra 30 yds. off the tee), I'm just
not going to do it."

Sorry if I'm preaching but this has hit a sore spot with me. Too many of us are willing
to let things slide in hopes that someone else will do the "dirty work".

There had to be someone connected to Almonte's team that knew his age but just kept quiet
about it-for whatever reason. When we as a society start praising each other for exposing
cheaters instead of labeling as "rats" we'll see a change for the good.

Anyway, Danny Almonte is no better or no worse than many,many HS lefties across the country he is just "newsworthy".

Thanks for listening.
Um....aren't the Almontes from the Dominican Republic? Which is a completely different country from Puerto Rico? Actually, conditions in the Dominican being generally worse than in Puerto Rico only emphasizes your point....but I found it odd that someone who is so very quick to cry prejudice about your Hispanic heritage would fall into the 'seen one hispanic island you've seen them all' trap.
Danny Almonte is from the Dominican Republic-not Puerto Rico. The D.R. shares an island
with Haiti-which is truly impoverished. Puerto Rico is by no means impoverished although
there are poor sections just as there are in every city in the United States.

Are you saying that the mindset in D.R.(not Puerto Rico) is that the only way for anyone
to be successful is to play Major League baseball? I guess the young girls/women are
doomed to a life of poverty because they can't play MLB. noidea
quote:
Originally posted by Orlando:
Um....aren't the Almontes from the Dominican Republic? Which is a completely different country from Puerto Rico? Actually, conditions in the Dominican being generally worse than in Puerto Rico only emphasizes your point....but I found it odd that someone who is so very quick to cry prejudice about your Hispanic heritage would fall into the 'seen one hispanic island you've seen them all' trap.

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The reality of the history of minorities in BB in this country regarding prejudice is not open to your interpretation. Only a totally uninformed person or someone who has those same charateristics within their own values system would try to excuse the facts.

The experience that has been part and parcel of our family in BB is not open to question, only open to further revelation that it still exist by those who try to excuse it here.

I don't hold anyone responsible here for anything that we may have expreienced as none here have had anything to do with it.

So for you to bring it up must be because you feel guilty for your own behavior.

If so, you have to live with your own demons.
Last edited by PiC
I must apologize. Being from a poor country gives people the right to cheat, is that what I'm reading. Listen, I grew up pretty poor and there are billions who grew up poorer. That does not give me or anyone else the right to cheat or take shortcuts or make more acceptable when it occurs. Danny is a partial victim but he has not seemed to progress much since those LL days.
PiC, is it National Non Sequitor Day? (and me without a card!) I have no idea what you think you read in my post, or what you intended in yours (but it sounded quite snippy).

My point was simply this: you implied through references to the Almontes and Puerto Rico that they were from that island. They are not, they are from the Dominican Republic. This is the kind of thoughtless mistake that people WITH prejudices (why bother with the differences, they're all alike) would make. The "demons" you refer to are your own.

Playing ball in Florida has given my son a great many friends and teammates from PR, DR, Cuba, and Columbia. And each wishes to be recognized as being from, or having the heritage of, their own country, just as anyone does.
its....

Interesting about your referencing "throwing stones"....

I'm a refugee from Lithuania who came here on a troop carrier in 1949 with a mother and a small sister...My father was taken by the German army as we were fleeing Lithuania in 1944 because the Russians and Germans were making it a battleground of sorts.

We couldn't speak the language either and they (the people who lived here) all called us "dumb dp's)....

I don't want to hear about impoverished backgrounds and no English-speaking skills...just rise above it. My mother gave us opportunities by working 2 jobs for 37 years. She was a butterpacker and a cleaning lady. We were proud of her.

What are you going to tell me that I don't know about a situation like this kid was in?

In America, you don't have to lie and cheat.

Just put your head down and work.

---
Blackheart...AGREE WITH YOU 100%.
Last edited by BeenthereIL
Apparently some others are very successful making it out of abject poverty...

FROM RICK MORRISSEY, CHICAGO TRIBUNE
It seems that when it was time for Sosa to take his physical for the Orioles last week, a team employee arrived in a personal vehicle to transport Sosa to the facility.

Sosa didn't offer a heart tap or even blow a kiss. He wagged a disapproving index finger. He said he doesn't do personal vehicles. He would require a limousine. The limo arrived about an hour later, delaying the physical and the ensuing news conference.

Sun columnist Peter Schmuck referred to it as an apparent "diva moment" by Sosa. Some of us here in Chicago would refer to it as bigness as usual for His Samminess.
JP, you made my point. With all the hardships faced by your mother she was the anchor in your childhood and, I'm sure, stressed education from a very early age. Where was this parental support for Almonte? The values you grew up with were non-existant for this young man. All he was told from a very early age was that baseball was his only hope to escape poverty and what kind of message is that? Where was he to learn anything about moral values? Who was there to teach these values? I wish him well.
It's funny, Orlando...I really don't relish railing on Sammy. I wish he were the player he could have been because if he were, the Cubs would have had World Series rings by now. I started getting huffy last week when my esteemed and respected Sox Fan buddy, BeenThere, started railing on the Cubs and went away for a couple of days to get my perspective back. I thought long and hard about my last post and decided to post it...actually I was trying to end the Almonte discussion. Smile

By the way, how do I look in my new UBERSized Avatar? Just got back from the beauty shop when my wife snapped the picture!

Oops it's small again!
Last edited by Halfmoonslider
Danny is not guilty for what happen, his father and his coach were. What happen in 2001 have nothing to do with the question if Danny is a "real deal" as a ball player or not. So, a lot of people, like always, take the opportunity to look in the dark side of the situation, and in this particular case some have gave as a reason, national origen, economical status, education, and even, his intelligence and his english speaking ability. I asked my self, what was happen if Danny wasn't win a game in that series in 2001. I guest that we had a few less topic in this webside, and some posters one less opportunity to throw all their negativisness from inside their dirty soul.
As dominican, I feel very bad for what Danny's coach did, but this have nothing to do with poverty, or national origen, this is a mirror image of a society that every day is worst and worst, and believe me, we don't have to go out of this shores to found all their manifestations. Look at the history of the last 5 or 6 United States presidents, look at the happening of the last two elections, look at the case of NJ governor, and like this thousand of cases. Let Danny along, he is paying his punishment in silent, if he will make it or not to the big leagues will depends, nor for what happens in 2001, nor for the attention of the press, depends only for the same reason of all other players, depends on development, performance, and lucky. No even his size (Pedro, John Franco, etc)may stop him, no even lenguage, or knowledge, or speed. Non body knows, only in this webside there is so many people that can predit what is going to happen 4 to 5 years from now. I hope that all those diviners could tell us what is going to happen to this world that every day is going faster to self destruction.
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
Throwing 87 for the LH side will get him noticed.

I refuse to jump into PiC's pigfight. I encourage all of you to do the same.

Bob, can we get an ignore feature?


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The man throws an insult at me, I respond to defend myself and you call me a pig.

Thanks for reminding me why I never sit anywhere near parents at ball games.

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