Is it worth the time to play for a HS team that is horrible?

Similar situation here.  Our school is a state football power, with baseball an afterthought.

 

My son knows that if he plays at the next level it won't be because of anything that happens on the high school baseball field.  But, he has played with his school teammates since he was 8 years old, and wants to have fun playing with them, win or lose.

 

 

 

 

Sam,

There are lots of reasons to play HS baseball and there is plenty of time during the rest of the year to seek college exposure opportunities and play travel ball. 

 

Every aspect of HS should be savored... it is a once in a lifetime experience.  Playing HS baseball gives a kid a chance to hang out with his friends in a structured, positive daily environment.  He gets to fight for his school, win or lose.  If the team is bad, then perhaps this is a time when he can play purely for fun and love of the game instead of worrying about performance affecting his chance to play at the next level. 

 

You say he may still play JV or sit on the bench.  That tells me he will still be playing with kids that are better than he is so he will likely be getting better every day at practice and still has hurdles to jump at this level.  Sounds like he is young.  Maybe he can be instrumental in helping the program grow and get better.  There is a tremendous amount of pride as well as leadership skills that can be gleaned from that.  (I've told this story before but your son may get something from it - Cabbage played as a freshman for a 4-17 team and will always be proud that he played a key role in a complete turn-around and culture change on his HS team over the course of four years).

 

I'm sure you can find many reasons for him not to play at his HS if you wanted but you can also certainly find plenty of reasons for him to say yes and embrace it.

I can't believe these are serious questions. Of course you play on your high school team -- if you are good enough and if you value all of the things that make  representing your school and being a part of a team and playing baseball great. If the only purpose to play baseball is to get to the "next level," I personally would not play (and neither would my sons). It has been said before and it is so true: "It is the journey and not the destination." Besides, if your son is a good player, perhaps he can help make the high school team better.

If the high school program is so bad and your son is on a stud travel team why wouldn't he start on varsity?

My son's high school had seventeen losing seasons in the previous twenty seasons when he was in 8th grade. Their last conference title was twenty-two years previous. The team had never won a district playoff game. 

 

His four years involved a 15-5 jv season freshman year followed by a varsity second place and two conference titles. His junior year they were a top four seed and won three playoff games. It was the furthest any baseball team at the school had ever gone. In his three varsity years more players went on to college ball than the previous twenty years.

 

The two teams following his graduation have made the playoffs. He's now part of a new legacy. You never know.

 

My son had the opportunity to attend a strong academic and athletic private school on a partial scholarship. But our high school is just as strong if a kid is in the high honors or gifted program. I wasn't going to pay 50k over four years just so my son could be on a better high school baseball team who they happened to beat in a non conference game one of two times.

 

While his high school coach offered to help with baseball recruiting all exposure came through the travel team.

 

 

SamIam, are you for real?  Your son has played 6 years in Jupiter at PG showcase events, you're worried about scouts showing up at the h.s. games.. and he's on JV?

 

(Scouts don't show up to JV games.  I know, Bum, Jr. was on JV as a sophomore.)

 

Get real, dad.  I read your post three times.  It smacks of elitism.  Scouts, Jupiter, travel teams, h.s. team not good enough... really?  How old is your son?  If he looks back on his childhood I'll bet he'd rather have played with his buddies in h.s. than the dad-engineered travel team.  Think about it.

 

Back off and let your son enjoy the game.  This is a real tragedy waiting to happen.

 

I agree with Cabbage's comments.  I also think that college recruiters and scouts may frown on a player thinking he is too good for his HS team.  "Does he only play for himself?", "Not a team player?" and even "won't be able to handle it when the chips are down?".   I'd have him play for the HS team and play HARD and be a leader and learn how to persevere through tough times and wear it like a badge of honor.   If he embraces it, people will notice.  We've all seen those horrible teams where one kid is talented and/or just out hustling everyone....and we notice that he is a real ball player.  That could be your son.

Bum, I agree with your overall sentiment, but to defend the OP a little, he is saying the HS age team(s) in the travel program that his son is with has been going to Jupiter and other PGs for 6 years, not that his son has been doing so. 

I also don't blame one for asking the question.  I know others (that I like and respect) who have contemplated this as well.

That was my first thought after reading the OP post.

SamIam,

 

Your son is getting a great education and plays on a fantastic travel team according to your post.   What more do you want?

 

Futhermore, he will have an opportunity to play with friends and possibly play and develop in areas that he normally would not get exposure to.  Many times, good players on bad teams get the opportunity to play many positions.   Your son is at the JV level so this really isn't a major issue.   He will most likely rise to Varsity a lot quicker if that means anything to you.  Many people on this site (including myself) have endured some long and painful high school seasons.  In my situation, I knew my two oldest kids were getting a quality education so hs baseball was a non-issue.   If your son is getting a great education and all the exposure he needs with travel ball, it really isn't a difficult decision at all IMHO.. HS ball made my kids appreciate travel ball that much more.  Good luck!

Let's not scare away a brand new member, guys!   looks like he joined 9 houras ago so let's spare him the HSBBW old timers judgment --- at least for a few more postings.

 

Welcome to HSBBW SamIam.  It is a great resource.

 

You are getting good advice here from everyone. I esp. concur with Cabbage and Fenway, your son still has a great deal to gain and learn from his HS team, and I think it sends a bad signal when a kid doesn't want to play for his school. It should be a boy's passion to play for his HS team, win or lose!

 

They were the best years (so far!) of my son's life. Being being part of a team that went from the bottom of the heap with no respect, to champs in a very competitive conference, made for a very unforgettable junior year and a great run to semis in senior year as well as going deep into states. Ya never know!

 

But it is the love the game. The journey, not the destination, all those great things others have said before.  Have your son play HS ball, go to every game you can, be a positive parent in the bleachers, and savor every inning. It goes by so fast.

 

Good luck.

 

Have you even asked your son what he wants to do?  That might provide you your answer.  If he wants to play then let him because of all the reasons above.  If he doesn't want to play then don't let him - you'll be doing the team (and the coach) a favor if he has the same attitude that your showing that he's too good for the team.

Play and stay out of it.  There r many College scouts in our area who come to watch HS players, even D1 schools. They could be coming to watch someone on a team your son is playing and see one of your kids. Baseball is a team sport. Go in w a positive attitude or it will  make player look bad to coaches.  If  hes that good he will not be sitting Jv on a bad team.

My son is in about the same spot as samiam's kid.  I am going to defend him a little.  My kid is in the 9th grade and will probably be playing Jv because there likely will be no varsity team.  Last year we talked some kids into playing just to be able to field a team and it was awful as some of them would find any excuse not to show up for practices and we were worried they would get drilled by the ball as they had no clue how to duck a pitch.  It was brutal to watch and be a part of it and the idea of not playing has been discussed as the field is awful and there is not much enjoyable about It.

 

but there are some kids with some talent in the 6-8 grades and private school teams can turn on a dime. We had a family with 3 boys about 2 years apart visit and all could supposedly play.  So even though we talked about it, he will play to set an example for those younger kids and hope to convince kids visiting that better days are ahead.  Plus he will learn some important lessons being out there.

 

Maybe it's just the energy drink I just downed, BUT sorry, but I am going to go out on a limb and call shenanigans on this one.....going into HS, so maybe 14, playing in Jupiter for the past 6 years????  PG has Jupiter 8U tourny's?  Then add to the fact that he may sit for JV...come on

 

 

Left hook I read it that the organization he has played youth ball with has played in Perfect Game and now as he is High school age , by staying with the organization will be able to attend these tournaments.

2014...I think you read that correctly...however it still doesn't address how the kid can be such a stud to consider skipping HS ball because of the "suckiness" of the program....yet he will be on the JV team..AND sit the bench.   If the program is that bad...and the kid is that good...he should be a standout on JV and probably be up on Varsity.

 

I have to agree with lefthookdad here.  My son, freshman, will also play for a high school far more interested in academics then athletics.  The plan is for him to skip freshman team and start on JV.  There's still some pull from the varsity coach so he may end up there.  But I certainly do not envision him sitting on the bench during JV games.

 

And he had the chance to attend a better athletic then academic private HS, but chose to stick with our district.  His friends are there and the academics are MUCH better.

 

May he lose more then he wins on that team?  Maybe.  But I can say this much, that kid HATES to lose.  He'll make sure things change in that HS over the next 4 years.

Sam Am, you are getting good advice here, play. The team will not get better if the guys that play competitive summer ball all take a pass. Plus hopefully the team will change by the time he is a Junior\ Senior.

I actually feel for you as this is the case with our HS program we are zoned to, lack of discipline, only Seniors start, mediocre program, JV coaches are Football coaches and if you don't play football..... and Freshman parents are asking this same question. My son goes to a local Private school so we avoided it; but our friends are asking our advice. So given our local context I did not take the question as elitist.

He should play, and strive to start as soon as he can whether it be JV or Varsity.  A lot changes through the High School years, the studs Freshman year are not necessarily the studs by Junior or Senior year, everyone matures at a different age.

HaHa...you may be right...I told it it may have been the energy drink....lol

 

But, if the travel club he is playing for is that good, and the HS program sucks, he should have no prob making and playing JV. like some others have said.

 

In any event, I am all for kids playing HS ball, whether their program is good or not....cabbagedad hit it spot on in his post

I don't care if the poster is new or not, what he said is ridiculous and reeks of "all me" attitude. High school baseball is awesome....not everything has to be about getting college looks and scholarships.  Let the kid call the shot on this and stay out of it.

 

 

I would say don't play.  Your expectations about winning and competing don't match the school's.  Unless you can change your outlook, you will have a miserable experience. 

 

To have a good experience, your goals and the team goals have to match.  I have a friend who's daughter played on the HS summer developmental basketball team.  He would complain loudly about the girls with "no talent" getting to play and loosing.  He was completely oblivious to the goals of the team -- develop the girls for the real season.  It becomes cancerous.  Good luck. 

I think any of you who can't possibly fathom why someone wouldn't play high school baseball must be blessed to be in a good or competent program coaching-wise, or at least have a coach who cares. We are not so I can think of a lot of valid reasons someone may have this issue on their mind.

Oddly enough, in HS winning is NOT everything. For example, just  a few weeks ago I was talking to the asst. principal of my older kid's HS about the value of HS sports, competition, discipline, comradery, and all of that for students, and she mentioned that her HS volleyball team didn't win a single match during her Jr. and Sr. seasons.  But that didn't stop her from getting a full ride  for volleyball to the D1 school of her choice, where she not only had a great career, but earned both a BS and a PHD.

If you are a baseball player and in high school... You play on the high school team! That is what everyone does!

 

I'm not sure, but I doubt there has ever been a JV player in the PG tournament in Jupiter.  That is not what that event is about.

 

Nothing stopping a player from taking lessons or training while at the same time playing high school baseball.  I would be more concerned if the opposing teams were all horrible in high school.  You get better by playing better competition.

 

i've read these type posts regarding skipping HS baseball many times on here.  Seriously, I just don't get it!  Many great players were on bad high school teams. In fact, can anyone here name a major league player who grew up in the USA and did not play high school baseball?  I can't think of any, even most of the home schooled kids play high school baseball.

 

I know there are a few programs popping up for kids who don't want to play HS baseball, for one reason or another.  I'm not sold on that approach, but at least they are playing.

 

If I am a college coach/recruiter (once was) I would always talk to the high school coach about a player I was interested in.  There is a lot more to a player than his visible talent.  I have to live with that player for several years.  I have to know how he will deal with adversity. How he will react to coaching, team mates, losing, etc. will he end up thinking he is too good for our program?  Will he only be interested in the "next" level?

 

What would you do, if you found out he wasn't playing for his HS team because he was too good to play on that bad team. What would that HS coach have to say?  

 

Finally, there are kids that transfer high schools to better their baseball experience.  I'm not totally against that but not exactly for it either. (Depends on the circumstances)   But at least there is high school baseball attached to his bio.  And always remember... There are things that are much more important than baseball!

 

Bottom line... It is just the right thing to do! But if you decide not to do it... That's OK!

Wow, people.  Some of you need to slow down and actually read what I wrote.  Some of you need stop making assumptions.   

 

 I never said my son has been playing with his travel team and that he himself went to PG.  I said the organization he plays with has gone the last six years.  He's just now in his first year as a high school player on the team.  He has played with the organization for two years, though on younger teams.  BTW, this is not a "dad-engineered team", thank you.  No dads are involved in the organization, the coaching or any other way, other than simply being a supportive parent.  

 

Why do I assume my 9th grade son would only play on the JV team?  Because I am a realist.  You accuse me of acting as if my son is the best of the best, for asking this question...yet I'm realistically assuming he'd probably be doing JV...how is that acting as if my son is THE BEST, too good to play on a crappy team??  We are aware of how high school sports go...there are politics involved.  Seniors get Varsity dibs usually, because it's "their last year and they've earned it".  Who are your parents gets some consideration..ie the Booster Club President's son gets a positive light shining down on him...who's going to cut the Booster Club President's son?  Things like that happen all the time...we know that is true of our school team from hearing it from parents who are involved on the team.   The other thing we keep in mind, is frankly....if the baseball team is horrible....alot of that has to do with coaching...there is some quality talent on the team...lots of these boys play on different travel teams around the area....so we have to look at the coaching too, when we judge quality of the team.  So that's the reality of why we assume our 9th grade, 14 year old son would play on JV.  Sure, there's always the possibility that he'd play up...but we don't assume that.  How do you think that I'm being elitist or saying my son is the top gun, when we assume he'd do JV?  

 

As far as what my son thinks, or us taking the fun out of the game for him...again, you are wrong.  This is a thought that I have bouncing around....we are pre-season here...son is just in his last week of football, and baseball conditioning starts next week.  It's not the team, it's not try-outs, it's simply conditioning for anyone who wants to come out to the field, run by the baseball coach....they won't even be using any baseball equipment.  My son will attend that. There's no pressure on this situation from us, on our son.  I was bouncing this around, and considering options, and thought I'd bring it here to listen to the experience of others.   If it came down to it where we thought we would need to really consider this situation, we would of course have a conversation with our son and see how he feels.   Don't assume you know anything about me, my son, my parenting style, or our relationship based on the information I shared in my original post.  

 

My son like to compete, and likes his team to win.  As I am sure that most of you probably have that same streak in your child, if you are here in this forum.  There is nothing wrong with that, and it can be defeating to go out and play your best, and have your team lose every time (no matter how much you love your school, your teammates, your coach, your team bus ride, whatever....losing every time tends to suck after a while).   The other thing I consider is that of course my son has some things he can work on personally.  He can always improve in batting, he can always improve in pitching. (There I go again, talking about how amazing my superstar son is again!! Dang elitist!!).  So I consider how much time he would have to get personal lessons to improve on those when he's on the school team vs. not being on the school team.    Tell me, if you were considering two different travel teams for your son to join.....would you not consider the record of the teams?  Would you not consider the reputation of the team in the baseball world, ie "That team is great" "That team is solid" "That team is horrible" "Everyone beats that team"  "That team has the worst record in the district"....that wouldn't come into your consideration?  So why would we think any different because one team is a school team?  I mean, if your child was on a travel team, that never won, that generally "baseball" people scoffed at...would you let your son continue to play on that team, would your son even want to continue to play on that team, would your son even enjoy that situation?  But because it's a school team, we are shameful for even thinking twice????? Really?

 

Again, just thoughts I had bouncing around, and I thought this forum would be a good place  to get advice from those with more experience in similiar situations (I've been lurking here for a while and I see that there are really some knowledge baseball people here).

 

I thank each one of you that offered valid advice, based on your own personal experience, and outlook.   You did bring some good thoughts and reasoning to my question, some things I hadn't bounced around yet, and made me look at it from a different perspective...which is what I needed.  Again, thank you.

 

For those of you that assumed, bashed, and generally had nothing helpful to add to this conversation.....move on.  There is nothing for you in this adult conversation.  

Play.  HS ball is different than summer ball.  Summer ball is about promoting yourself and gaining exposure in order to play at the next level.  It is about the individual as well as the team.  HS ball is about playing with your friends and representing your school.  People who matter understand that in HS ball, a player has to accept the hand he is dealt.  They are concerned about skills, not wins and losses.

 

Part of developing character is learning how to lose and how to deal with adversity.  If your son is on a losing team, he will become more mentally prepared for what will lie ahead.  He will struggle, he will have bad pitching outings, he will have batting slumps and make errors.  Mentally learning how to deal with these things is important.

 

There is nothing like playing HS ball regardless of how good or not good the team is.  My son would not have traded it for the world - and he did not play on a good team and did not have a good coach.  Encourage your son to play and make the best of the situation.

 

JMHO.

 

Absolutely not.  There is a lot to learn in the lesser example also.

Sam, at the risk of seeming like I'm bashing you, you say  that people should stop making assumptions about you and your son, and then go on to list a whole bunch of assumptions that you're making about the HS coach and program that your son will be entering.  Some may be true, some  not, but maybe you should see for yourself?

 

A MLB hitting coach, who is also my sons hitting coach, nearly flipped when I mentioned the idea of my home schooled son would hit and train and not participate in the HS baseball season. Some of the things he mentioned : reps if the coach has any idea of running a practice there should be lots of grounders, swings, defensive drills, bull pens, lead offs, pick offs, double plays,  cut offs, backing up 3b, tracking flyballs, (I'm starting to  run out of commas over here!) 20 game season and maybe 60-70 ab, stolen base attempts and so on.
So not only is my son playing with the local HS, I got involved and coached the fall varsity fall team. It was the right thing!

Me too. I can't understand where this guy is heading with this.  Team stinks, but son isn't good enough to play on JV, but parent thinks his kid is too good to play on the team?  Bizarre...

Agreed.  I am not totally happy with my son's high school situation, but he/we would never consider him not playing.

Play HS baseball. Period. My son transferred into an academic private HS his sophomore year. Total enrollment 212 students, male & female, 9-12. Baseball team never had more than 13 players over the three years. Never had a winning record.

First year league play 2-10, second year 4-8 and senior year 10-2. They won league title for the first time in school history competing against schools that had 3 to 8 times in enrollment. When PO Jr was interviewed after the game, he was asked how it felt "Best day of my life".

Enjoy HS baseball, it's as good as it gets. Because, if your son gets to play at the next level, it's a business.

Sit back, relax and enjoy this time. It goes by quickly.

Yup, there were some wrong assumptions and misinterpretations.  Hard to avoid in this type of forum format without being way too wordy with an OP.  Hang in there.. I think you'll find this place will be an invaluable tool for you and your son in the process.

 

When you compare the decision process with travel/club teams and schools, you are not comparing apples and apples.  It's not practical for the vast majority to change schools.  And with all the other factors that go into the HS experience, changing schools because of the baseball program is usually not a smart move.  So, I would disagree with your views on this point.  But, no, it is certainly not shameful and there are some instances where it may actually make sense.

 

If the HS program is "scoffed at", this is an opportunity for a good player to shine.  Even better yet, a good opportunity to stand out and then lead others to follow.

 

Play HS if for anything the practices and live pitching (should be for the love of the game but that's another story and my opinion) , Where we live there are no travel teams, we get the leftover showcases that come here to tan, so for any showcases or college camps he wants to go to is a 7 hour flight to the mainland. take advantage of whatever is available and don't look for winners, true talent shows up no matter how putrid the surroundings are.

A player who hopes to play in college MUST be on his high school team.

 

College coaches might consider him if he's on the team but doesn't play, if they know the HS coach is incompetent.  But they won't consider your son if he is not willing to see things through and give things his best shot in an effort to help the team, perhaps even to help the team grow to be something more, in the next few years, than it is now. 

 

If your son has no aspirations to play beyond high school, then he's playing now only for his own enjoyment.  In that scenario, he can play where and when he wants, and not play when it suits him. 

 

I know plenty of kids whose HS team is terribly afflicted but who've succeeded in using their travel teams to get recruited.  But all of them demonstrated that they would persevere through a bad situation.  None of them walked out on their HS teams. 

 

If your son walks away, he's saying he doesn't want to play in college.  Do not kid yourself into thinking your travel team can get him taken care of if he walks away.  I see close to 0% chance of that happening.

This what I've talked about before.  90% of baseball players drop out of the game not due to physical abilities but intangibles, especially attitude, mental toughness, discipline and heart.  And oftentimes, these factors are instilled into them by their parents.

 

Read the OP last post.  This is paralysis by analysis.  I find it most encouraging he hasn't discussed this with his kid.  The four factors I outline above could be adequately addressed by not having that conversation with his son and telling him instead "Shut up and play!"

 

My daughter's HS softball team was horrible, as there were many girls on team that had never played before coming to HS.  She spent most of her time teaching the other players.  It taught her how to lose with grace, 9over time), and it really put the fire in her to enjoy her Summer ball play and teammates much more.  

My high school team was not good. My coach was even worse. To this day I don't speak to him, and don't plan to.

 

I played 3 years of varsity baseball and moved on to what I would consider a pretty successful college experience. My high school days taught me a lot about interaction, clubhouse cohesion, maturity, etc. Do I wish I had a better experience with my high school coach? Absolutely. But I still learned a lot. I still keep in touch with a lot of the guys I played high school ball with. A few of my teammates also went on to play in college. I consider each of them a friend to this day. I don't know if I would be as close with some of them otherwise.

 

I often wonder what it would've been like to have a different high school playing experience. I've never wondered what it would've been like to not play at all. That thought never crossed my mind.

 

SamIAm- I find it extremely ironic of you to attack people for reacting to information you provided. If you ask a question and provide information behind that question, people can only provide advice based on the information at hand. For you to say "don't judge me" is implying that you don't care to hear criticism, warranted or not. 

 

I am not trying to "bash" you, as you say. I've had many disagreements and wrongful encounters here on this site. I just don't feel as though this is the appropriate venue for your defense.

 

In short, there is a lot more that goes into high school baseball than college recruiting. Playing- at any level- is not a right, it is a privilege. I would highly recommend enjoying each step along the way. 

My son is a freshman this year and I can't imagine him not playing HS baseball. We started going to HS games to see the local standout players when he was 12 years old.  The local kids that went on to play college and pros are like Superman to my son.  He wants to follow in their footsteps.  That includes standing out in HS baseball and doing whatever you can to help your team be the best it can be.

 

Where I live if you are good student in 8th grade you can apply to a specialty program of your choice in order to go to the HS you want.  In my sons case he got into the program he wanted which is also where he most wanted to play ball.(Wanted to play there because of great coaching, not the schools win/loss record)

 

Next time you go to a HS game take a look at the little kids idolizing the players on the side lines.  I will never forget my son and I at a playoff game watching his favorite player hit two bombs to beat the rival team.  I could go on and on, but you get the point. 

 

When you love baseball, you love baseball, what else are you going to do in the spring?